Metroid Topic

[Emmett L. Brown]

I think Retro should do a Metroid title just to give the series a bandage after Other M's (exaggerated) impact. They're the ones I totally trust to handle the series, but I wonder how they would handle the task doing a non-first person Metroid 2D or 3D. Probably a stellar job anyways.

After they matched Rare's ability (I mean the GOOD Rare in ye olden days, not the shuffling husk they ended up becoming) to make a great Donkey Kong Country game, I've got total confidence in Retro Studio's ability to handle a 2D Metroid. They might not be able to make a Super Metroid right off the bat, but I'm certain they could top Metroid Fusion.

[Emmett L. Brown]

Sorry about the thread necromancy, but after that pretty awesome Timeline documentary on Gametrailers, I've been thinking about the way the Zelda series managed to branch out in multiple directions by explicitly having multiple timelines. I thought about how that would work with Metroid, and then I started pondering if maybe it's already happened.

Timeline 1: Metroid, Metroid II Return of Samus, Super Metroid, Metroid Other M, and Metroid Fusion.

Timeline 2: Metroid, Metroid Prime, Metroid Prime Hunters, Metroid Prime Echoes, and Metroid Prime Corruption.

It's established that basically the entire Prime saga happens between the first Metroid game and the gameboy sequel wherein Samus is tasked to destroy all Metroids forever (ha!). But since half the games after Metroid II were written and released before Retro Studios ever got their hands on Metroid, there's naturally no story connection to "past" events. As for Other M, the writers explicitly chose to ignore everything from Prime, as if it never happened. So maybe it really didn't happen, for Other M's Samus Aran.

What would be the point the timeline splits in two? Well, Samus's directive at the start of Metroid II is to exterminate the entire Metroid species. What if Samus disobeyed that order, or flat-out refused to accept the mission? The Space Pirates would retain their stores of captive Metroids, so they'd have no reason to steal a specific Metroid hatchling and be tracked by Samus back to Zebes, so Super Metroid wouldn't happen. With Metroids remaining on SR388, the X would never repopulate, so Metroid Fusion would never happen. And of course Metroid Other M would never happen without Super Metroid.

It works both ways: If Samus destroyed all the Metroids on SR388, then the Space Pirates wouldn't have Metroids to aid their conquest of Tallon IV. Even if they managed to scour the planet, they wouldn't be able to get into the Impact Crater. If Samus in turn never showed up, then the Metroid Prime would continue to corrupt the planet, but Dark Samus would never be created. Without Dark Samus, Phazon would remain a random threat striking distant planets, but never evolve into the universe-devouring threat it would be if controlled by an intelligent mind.

I freely admit there's a lot of fanwank here. There's just too much character development and universe bulding in Prime to shove it all aside for Bottle ships, baby cries, and GetBackInTheKitchen probes. If there's two timelines, then I can accept a Samus in Other M who seems so incredibly different from the woman who stoped the Phazon menace, because for that person it never happened. Likewise, I can happily accept that the Samus who destroyed Phaaze hasn't had any more games afterward - it was a pretty awesome conclusion.

[SuperStingray]

I just declare Other M not canon and call it a day.

[Nintendoga]

Timeline 1: Metroid, Metroid II Return of Samus, Super Metroid, Metroid Other M, and Metroid Fusion.

Timeline 2: Metroid, Metroid Prime, Metroid Prime Hunters, Metroid Prime Echoes, and Metroid Prime Corruption.

Well since Sakamoto apparently considers the Prime series not-canon, this is basically it.

(but they are canon Sakamoto

don't be jelly just because they all had better stories than Other M.

Even the Pinball game)

[Semi-colon e]

I've been playing pretty much every Metroid game ever again (Prime Hunters and Pinball I don't have, so they don't count in this, and I can't play the original Metroid to save my life). The last one I'm doing is Corruption, on Hyper Mode. I seem to be having a much easier time so far, but I've just reached Thorn Jungle.... GURRUGURUHGRHGRIG.

I hate Thorn Jungle so much. I hate the one-hallway linearity thing, I hate fighting Korakk, I hate how bland it looks, and worst of all, I REALLY FUCKING HATE the two cannons part where you have to do them both in one go and don't get to save because the door to the save room area just locks for no reason other than to be a dick. And the part where you've gotta return and do that arbitrary Ship Grapple puzzle doesn't really help, nor does the lack of powerups aside from an Energy Tank which is needed, and a Missile Expansion you can't get until you get the Boost Ball.

Prime 1 is still the best Metroid game, with Super not too far behind. Fusion and Zero Mission have grown on me. Other M is still mediocre, but I do like using the Power Bomb. Firstly they made it so you didn't need to collect expansions, considering it's pointless as it's so late (Zero Mission was a bit annoying with the same thing), and I love charging the thing up and then GIANT EXPLOSION.

Edited December 10, 2012 by Semi-colon e

[Kuzu]

Been playing Zero Mission, this is my first 2D Metroid....it's not that bad, it's pretty fucking fun.

[Yong]

I'd rather just have one timeline and accept that Other M was just poorly written, rather than go down the lines of Zelda with its confusing alternate timelines.

[Spin Attaxx]

I just declare Other M not canon and call it a day.

Oh hey, just like Sonic 06!

I played Other M, and I didn't pay much attention to the story. But the gameplay offended me so much. Let me count the ways:

• Forced pixel hunts. I would literally spend HALF A FUCKING HOUR on these things, crying and screaming "WHAT THE HELL AM I MEANT TO BE LOOKING AT?!".
  
• The music. There is none. Aside from the title theme, Ridley's theme and maybe the Phantoon/Queen Metroid theme, can you remember any music from Other M? 'Cause I can't.
  
• Locking doors. Remember when you weren't locked out of areas for no rhyme or reason? So much for backtracking to get that Energy Tank you needed the Grapple Beam to get - play through 1/16 of the game first!
  
• Doors opening by themselves. This isn't bad, but come on! It's been with the series since day 1!
  
• Going through the Pyrosphere without the Varia Suit. Need I say more?
  
• The story's final boss. You literally lock on to MB... and then you win. What the fuck.
  

Little wonder most think Metroid is dead (hey, geting a sense of de ja vu here, guys?)...

[SuperStingray]

Little wonder most think Metroid is dead (hey, geting a sense of de ja vu here, guys?)...

It was one bad game. Who the hell thinks Metroid is dead because of that?

[Semi-colon e]

I love Corruption's unique ideas and upgrades, but many of them are nigh useless.

The Hyper Ball is far too weak and short ranged for how much Phazon it uses, and it's only necessary a handful of times. It also doesn't drain Phazon quickly enough, so just spamming the Hyper Beam when you want to get out of the corrupted mode is just more convenient. Ship Missile expansions are also worthless, because you only use them once in a while, and they're almost always restored by a pick up moments later (though apparently there were gonna be gunship segments where they'd be more useful). By the time you get the Hazard Shield there are only a handful of areas left to explore that actually need you to be equipping it. And as for the Ship Grapple... it's really useful to do the things you need it to do (repair the Chozo Observatory in Elysia, to assemble the Theronian Bomb, and to bridge the gaps between Bryyo Cliffside and Thorn Jungle, which is needed to get an Energy Cell, one of the most aggravating to get in the game) and then you can never use it anywhere ever again.

Even the X-Ray Visor/Nova Beam combo is only useful on a handful of enemies, because once something enters Hyper Mode, it scrambles the X-Ray Visor for some reason and while it's still technically possible to one shot them, it's impractical at best. And Missile Expansions themselves are also much less useful than in the other 2 Prime games because there are no Charge Combos like the Super Missile that use at least 5 Missiles, so you never run out even by the time you get halfway through the game.

And the Hyper Grapple? It earns it's keep during Phaaze to drain Phazon into the Phaz-Ings, but apart from that and getting to Phaaze in the first place, you'll never need it. It doesn't even allow you to get any other items, making it the last thing I get whenever I play Corruption.

At least they're all pretty new and nifty items, it's a shame they never got that much use. I wouldn't mind seeing the Ship puzzle stuff coming back in another game really tbf.

It's still a great game, but a lot of the power ups weren't utilised as cleverly as the ones in Prime and even Prime 2 to some extent.

Edited December 12, 2012 by Semi-colon e

[SuperStingray]

^Yeah, the main problem with Corruption's hyper upgrades is that they were basically glorified keys. I thought the X-ray visor and hyper beam combo was used pretty well, though.

[Blue Wisp]

I felt Corruption's Hypermode Upgrades made the game easier and it was rather a cheap way to beat the game.

...

No complaints though.

[Old dead account]

If they do decide to go the route of alternate timelines/realities it would open up endless possibilities. In my own Fanon that's how it goes because Metroid II's Netroid extinction makes no sense after Prime spammed them everywhere. Unfortunately, I doubt Sakamoto would ever make split timelines a reality and will make the Primes remain noncanon... What happened to the man that gave us Super Metroid?

[Emmett L. Brown]

I love Corruption's unique ideas and upgrades, but many of them are nigh useless.

The Hyper Ball is far too weak and short ranged for how much Phazon it uses, and it's only necessary a handful of times. It also doesn't drain Phazon quickly enough, so just spamming the Hyper Beam when you want to get out of the corrupted mode is just more convenient. Ship Missile expansions are also worthless, because you only use them once in a while, and they're almost always restored by a pick up moments later (though apparently there were gonna be gunship segments where they'd be more useful). By the time you get the Hazard Shield there are only a handful of areas left to explore that actually need you to be equipping it. And as for the Ship Grapple... it's really useful to do the things you need it to do (repair the Chozo Observatory in Elysia, to assemble the Theronian Bomb, and to bridge the gaps between Bryyo Cliffside and Thorn Jungle, which is needed to get an Energy Cell, one of the most aggravating to get in the game) and then you can never use it anywhere ever again.

Even the X-Ray Visor/Nova Beam combo is only useful on a handful of enemies, because once something enters Hyper Mode, it scrambles the X-Ray Visor for some reason and while it's still technically possible to one shot them, it's impractical at best. And Missile Expansions themselves are also much less useful than in the other 2 Prime games because there are no Charge Combos like the Super Missile that use at least 5 Missiles, so you never run out even by the time you get halfway through the game.

And the Hyper Grapple? It earns it's keep during Phaaze to drain Phazon into the Phaz-Ings, but apart from that and getting to Phaaze in the first place, you'll never need it. It doesn't even allow you to get any other items, making it the last thing I get whenever I play Corruption.

At least they're all pretty new and nifty items, it's a shame they never got that much use. I wouldn't mind seeing the Ship puzzle stuff coming back in another game really tbf.

It's still a great game, but a lot of the power ups weren't utilised as cleverly as the ones in Prime and even Prime 2 to some extent.

I feel the main drawback with Corruption's unique power-ups was that they were so grossly inferior to the power-ups they replaced. Super Missiles are extremely useful throughout the series, and add a large tactical benefit to boss fights since they're frequently tricky to get right into the weak point but always rewarding. Hyper Missile, on the other hand, adds absolutely nothing.

Same with Ship Missiles as an exchange for Power Bombs. The bombs were useful both in combat situations and for uncovering secrets, while the ship missiles are useless whenever they're not mandatory.

The grapple whip was good, though. A nice extension on the established laser rope thing.

[Semi-colon e]

I feel the main drawback with Corruption's unique power-ups was that they were so grossly inferior to the power-ups they replaced. Super Missiles are extremely useful throughout the series, and add a large tactical benefit to boss fights since they're frequently tricky to get right into the weak point but always rewarding. Hyper Missile, on the other hand, adds absolutely nothing.

Same with Ship Missiles as an exchange for Power Bombs. The bombs were useful both in combat situations and for uncovering secrets, while the ship missiles are useless whenever they're not mandatory.

The grapple whip was good, though. A nice extension on the established laser rope thing.

Pretty much yeah. Another part of it is that most of the original weapons and upgrades, even when they appeared in Corruption, had multiple uses to get through the game. Power Bombs destroyed the yellow doors and (Ben)denzium, the Spider Ball has one use but it's a very involved one, Super Missiles are required for Cordite and green doors as well as being useful in combat, and the Plasma Beam is used for red/orange doors, burning things and melting ice, and in Prime 3 welding, and the Boost Ball is useful for many spinners as well as half pipes. But stuff like the Ship Missiles are only usable in open areas, and the Hyper upgrades are only usable on one type of environmental block, and they only get major use in Phaaze, because you are required to use them a few times and you can't use most of the shit you collected (god I hate Phaaze).

Even Echoes's beams had more utility for doors, portals, beating certain enemies, energising those platform things, and the safe zone mechanic.

The Hyper Missile is pretty good though, it's really powerful and has a wide area of effect, it's just that it uses a bit too much Phazon. It would have also benefitted from being a bit earlier. Still a fun weapon though.

I think they liked the Grapple Lasso a bit too much though, it stopped being novel after a while.

My favourite thing about Prime 3 is the whole exploring different planets thing, where you can hop to different ones at your leisure. Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia later did a similar thing where you unlock the next level by exiting the previous at certain points, but they were essentially bite-sized versions of the typical Metroidvania gameplay style, where you could go back and forth into areas at any time. True, there was no ship warp system and it just instead had a map of sorts and there were a lot more areas in OoE, and they're more basic and linear, but it's a pretty original way of doing a Metroidvania.

Order of Ecclesia is also proof of a really user friendly game that is also bollocks hard, but that's a different topic for a different series.

Edited December 12, 2012 by Semi-colon e

[D-Metal X]

My favorite aspect of Prime 3 was the fact that beams stacked, like in Super Metroid/Zero Mission. I know it's minor as hell, but the switching beams to open doors concept got a tad tedious at times. It made more sense in Prime 1, since all of the beams were different elements, but the Annihilator Beam should have been able to open all doors, since it has aspects of both light and dark. >_>

And the Hyper Missile is quite powerful and definitely the best of the "Hyper" upgrades.

Best part of Echoes was the boss fights. Quadraxis, Emperor Ing, Chykka, Spider Guardian, Dark Samus. They were a lot of sweet fights.

[Semi-colon e]

Another thing I like about Prime 3 is the setpieces. Duelling Ridley in freefall, defending the Spire, the Demolition Troopers escort mission, the more action based set pieces really work in this one.

For some reason I also really enjoyed the Caretaker Class Drone in Echoes. I think I just like the Spider Ball a lot, particularly the complex platforming sections where you have to boost off onto another rail. That level of intricacy was just missing in Other M.

[Diogenes]

My favorite aspect of Prime 3 was the fact that beams stacked, like in Super Metroid/Zero Mission. I know it's minor as hell, but the switching beams to open doors concept got a tad tedious at times. It made more sense in Prime 1, since all of the beams were different elements, but the Annihilator Beam should have been able to open all doors, since it has aspects of both light and dark. >_>

I dunno, maybe it's because I only got into the series with Prime 1, but I really missed the separate beams in Corruption. It added some variety and a bit of a puzzle element...although the plasma beam was overpowered as long as you weren't fighting something immune to it, and Prime 2's beams having ammo made me shy away from using them outside of bosses, so neither was perfect.

[Semi-colon e]

I finally cleared Corruption again on Hyper Mode. Phaaze and especially the final bosses are just draining by that point, so I tend to be glad it's over.

 

While the Hyper Grapple is a disappointing "last upgrade", especially compared to the Phazon Suit and Light Suit that were the last required major upgrades in the previous Prime games, it makes sense that it's so late, because why would you bother slowly unloading into an enemy when you could just shoot them down anyway? At the same time, it's crucial once in a while but also really useful on the Phaz-Ings when you do finally clear Phaaze, so it's last because there's no point having it earlier.

 

That said, I never really liked the whole "you can only use Hypermode" thing. Sure it finally makes the Hyper upgrades useful, but at the same time I wish it was just for the final boss, I would have liked to play around with the Nova Beam and Spider Ball and stuff more, especially when you get the Nova Beam so late as it is. And having essentially "less health" with the bar slowly rises seemed like a superficial way of making the final bosses harder, because if you had Energy Tanks like normal it would be easy, especially if you were in permanent Hypermode anyway.

Also where does Helios in the Elysia Seed come from? Many of the major bosses in the Prime series have always had some context. Prime 1's Parasite Queen was one of the four the Space Pirates they were experimenting on, Flaahgra was a sacred plant spreading the poisonous water everywhere, Thardus was a Space Pirate project that they quarantined when they couldn't tame it, the Omega Pirate was the crowning jewel of their Phazon mutations, and Meta Ridley is their boss essentially.

 

In Prime 2 Amorbis was served as a warning to travellers in early Agon, making it a nice brick joke, Chykka comes out of fucking nowhere, and Quadraxis was one of the best Luminoth war machines, possessed and turned against it's master.

 

In Prime 3, Mogenar was one of the special magic and science war golems, Omega Ridley is obvious, but Helios...? I swear for both Helios and Chykka in Prime 2 there's no real foreshadowing.

 

Helios is perhaps one of my favourite Prime 3 bosses though, while it's piss easy even on Hyper difficulty it just focuses more on doing loads of different things and being simply fun rather than tedious .

Edited December 14, 2012 by Semi-colon e

[Diogenes]

I'm sure that Helios was...something. I forget what it is actually but I am pretty sure that it is foreshadowed in some way.

...personally I always hated the Helios fight...

[Blue Wisp]

Helios was SO BORING. But wasn't he the original commander of the robots in SkyTown or something like that? I remember reading something like it in the Logbook.

And Chykka's butterfly form was fun, but it was really a stupid boss to be honest. I would have liked to see another Luminoth machine possessed by the Ing.

So sexy.

[SuperStingray]

Quadraxis is perhaps my favorite boss in the series.  It's like a Shadow of the Colossus battle, but with lasers n' shit.

[Old dead account]

I think Helios was the commander of the Elysians. Chykka was a pretty fun fight for me honestly. Tedious would be Gandrayda. Fucking bitch took forever to drop her health

[canderson]

I thought Quadraxis was a pretty unique boss fight. 

Although the fight was a bit too long for my taste, it still feels extremely satisfying going through all of the phases to take this particular boss down. 

[Tori Himemiya]

Quadraxis was indeed unique. You'd think he's the final boss or something considering how often he has a new phase. But he was slightly annoying since health would rain like its Christmas day or something like that.

Also speaking of Metroid Prime 2, I might had asked this before but I'll be willing to pick it up again if someone would tell me where to go better than the walkthrough I've read through. All I remember is trying to get an upgrade in the Ing Fortress or something and I remember beating up Dark Samus for the 2nd time. I'll start it up so I can get more details.

I can't believe I'm still stuck on this game. ;_______;

Edited December 15, 2012 by Rachel Alucard