Sonic/Sega related dreams that you feel will never come to fruition?

[Kuzu]

Love that video don't you, well for the people that don't constantly bitch about physics, yes it plays fine.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Ragna the Bloodedge

[Marcello]

Other characters being more important. I want them to have their own stories like in Adventure. And I want Espio playable again. And the Adventure voices being used again.

Return of Fang, who's partnered up with Bean and Bark and sometimes works for Eggman.

What are you going to remember about Generations

http://youtu.be/wzESmRuRgUs?t=6m24s

Edited September 7, 2012 by MarcelloF

[Diogenes]

Love that video don't you,

Well it quite succinctly shows the main problem with Classic Sonic...so yes.

well for the people that don't constantly bitch about physics, yes it plays fine.

Problems don't go away just because you refuse to acknowledge them. This is the same shit people use to defend '06...

[Soniman]

Except Classic Sonic is still fun and playable and not anywhere near 06 quality.

My opinion....but yeah.

[Scar]

That doesn't mean anything. I think it plays perfectly well, it just isn't classic Sonic. If you compare it to the classics (which you would given its function), then it is not even close to being good enough. However, taken as its own interpretation of 2D Sonic gameplay, then I'd say it plays pretty well.

I'm not using that as an excuse, I'm just saying that it playing well, has nothing to do with how accurately it replicates the Classic gameplay.

[Solly]

Honestly, the problem with Classic Sonic in Generations was that he really had a lot more in common with Modern Sonic than the 16 bit titles.

Split-second reaction-based button presses, bouncing on chains of enemies to get to other areas, often short alternate paths, and a ton of scripted segments. These are all things that characterize current Sonic games- minus the more obvious additions like the boost and homing attack.

Honestly, physics are one thing, but that isn't even the main reason I found Classic Sonic disappointing. He could still be fun to play, but if they're not going to try and replicate the old games accurately I'd rather they not chain themselves to them.

Anyway, as people in the thread have said, I want to see Sonic re-translated into 3D, drawing more inspiration from the Genesis games in terms of design. Don't think SEGA's going to do that though.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Solly

[Diogenes]

However, taken as its own interpretation of 2D Sonic gameplay

What is that interpretation? What is the goal of Classic Sonic's gameplay? What is the unifying concept behind it?

The answer is that there isn't one. And that is why it sucks, even apart from the utter failure to replicate the Genesis gameplay. Even the Modern gameplay has a direction, as wrong as I think it is; Classic Sonic was just a nostalgia cash-in.

I'm not using that as an excuse, I'm just saying that it playing well, has nothing to do with how accurately it replicates the Classic gameplay.

So, how well Classic Sonic plays has nothing to do with how well it replicates classic Sonic gameplay...?

And in spite of the fact that the gameplay is entirely 2D, with only classic abilities, and using classic powerups, and is making pretty much every attempt to present itself as an extension of the Genesis games...

The actual classic gameplay just isn't a concern...?

BS.

[Kuzu]

Problems don't go away just because you refuse to acknowledge them. This is the same shit people use to defend '06...

So to you a game where Sonic doesn't roll correctly is just as bad as a game that's glitchified, and poorly programed........yeah no, it's not.

[Scar]

And in spite of the fact that the gameplay is entirely 2D, with only classic abilities, and using classic powerups, and is making pretty much every attempt to present itself as an extension of the Genesis games...

The actual classic gameplay just isn't a concern...?

BS.

I never said that it wasn't a concern. You don't need to tell me how bad it is at being Classic Sonic, that much is evident when you pick up the controller and play the game. Yes, its trying to be the classics, and yes, it fails at doing so properly, but the underlying gameplay and level design isn't horrible.

Problems don't go away just because you refuse to acknowledge them. This is the same shit people use to defend '06...

In 06, everything was broken. It wasn't just a bad Sonic game, it was a bad game in general. Classic Sonic in Gens may be a bad Classic Sonic game, but its not universally bad.

So explain to me how the two situations are analogous?

Edit: On second thoughts, we've dragged enough topics away from their original point with this same argument.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Scar

[Diogenes]

So to you a game where Sonic doesn't roll correctly is just as bad as a game that's glitchified, and poorly programed........yeah no, it's not.

Congrats on missing the point. Are you doing so willfully or do you actually think that's what I said?

Poor logic is poor logic regardless of whether it's being used to defend something that's abysmal or merely crap. Whining that people are "obsessing" about the physics of the game (or any other element that gets brought up against it) is the same shit people use to defend '06; it's wrong here, it's wrong there.

Yes, its trying to be the classics, and yes, it fails at doing so properly, but the underlying gameplay and level design isn't horrible.

It's intensely boring, it offers little more than the most basic of platformers, it lacks any kind of unifying direction. It's amateur in the best case, it does not deserve to be praised.

In 06, everything was broken. It wasn't just a bad Sonic game, it was a bad game in general. Classic Sonic in Gens may be a bad Classic Sonic game, but its not universally bad.

So explain to me how the two situations are analogous?

Because it's the same fallacious bullshit regardless of the game in question.

[Soniman]

Man, sure has been a long time since we had an argument about this, I guess because they happen soooo rarely.

[Phos]

Love that video don't you, well for the people that don't constantly bitch about physics, yes it plays fine.

That doesn't mean anything. I think it plays perfectly well, it just isn't classic Sonic. If you compare it to the classics (which you would given its function), then it is not even close to being good enough. However, taken as its own interpretation of 2D Sonic gameplay, then I'd say it plays pretty well.

I'm not using that as an excuse, I'm just saying that it playing well, has nothing to do with how accurately it replicates the Classic gameplay.

I'm of the apparently controversial opinion that the game playing contrary to any sort of logic or common sense is a bad thing.

[Cyalume]

I had a dream once that shadow got all angsty and decided to shoot things.

Wait.

Sonic Adventure 3.

Chao Gardens ever showing up again in any game ever (Ports not included).

Tails and the Music Maker 2.

Sonic GL.

[Scar]

I'm of the apparently controversial opinion that the game playing contrary to any sort of logic or common sense is a bad thing.

Er...what beyond the unusually heavy resistive force, when rolling, is contrary to logic or common sense? Scripted events? I'll give you that much, but there isn't much else. The biggest factor in a platformer; interia, is all present and accounted for.

[Phos]

He's not accelerating while going downhill, for one.

[Scar]

He's not accelerating while going downhill, for one.

He does accelerate downhill when you're running though......

Edited September 7, 2012 by Scar

[Kiovle]

You know, what gets me about Classic Sonic's physics in Generations is that they seem sooooo easy to fix. Just tweak a number somewhere so he doesn't lose speed as fast when going uphill, tweak another number so that rolling downhill makes him accelerate more. Slow down his spindash a bit to make it less retarded and you're done. The whole game is fixed.

Modern Sonic's physics are fine, he can run through big loops and up large vertical inclines no problem without boosters, boost or even that much a running start, so what's up with Lil' Sonic?

Is everyone in Sonic Team really that stupid that they can't figure these problems out... or what?

[Nepenthe]

It's also very possible that they believed any discrepencies between the two physics systems that would inevitably bother hardcore fans weren't worth bothering with in the end because the gameplay in Generations is solid and fun in its own right anyway.

But nah, that possibility would be silly. The reality is that everyone on Sonic Team- literally everyone on the team- has a lower collective intelligence and insight into the development of modern Sonic games than the armchair analysts who frequent these forums and have no professional experience working on Sonic games whatsoever........

:/

[Diogenes]

It's also very possible that they believed any discrepencies between the two physics systems that would inevitably bother hardcore fans weren't worth bothering with in the end because the gameplay in Generations is solid and fun in its own right anyway.

But nah, that possibility would be silly. The reality is that everyone on Sonic Team- literally everyone on the team- has a lower collective intelligence and insight into the development of modern Sonic games than the armchair analysts who frequent these forums and have no professional experience working on Sonic games whatsoever........

:/

If they can't understand http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R16IBC_kD5o, then yes, they are that dumb.

[Nepenthe]

Wow, you missed my point completely.

[Kuzu]

Congrats on missing the point. Are you doing so willfully or do you actually think that's what I said?

Poor logic is poor logic regardless of whether it's being used to defend something that's abysmal or merely crap. Whining that people are "obsessing" about the physics of the game (or any other element that gets brought up against it) is the same shit people use to defend '06; it's wrong here, it's wrong there.

It depends on what the hell you're criticizing. When people defend 06, they're defending a fundamentally flawed game, on both a surface and deeper level, the problems in 06 are problems that just shouldn't be in a game in general, and render the game an almost broken mess, and anybody who tries to play off these problems as nothing is flawed for doing so, but you're criticizing people for not caring about something that only the most diehard of fans are going to care for.

If we're judging a game even deeper than normal, then yes, Generations` Classic isn't good at all, but as just a standard regular platformer, there is nothing inherently wrong with it, and there's nothing wrong with people liking it that way.

[Kiovle]

I didn't mean to be insulting, I'm just confused. They spent four years on that game and no one realized that classic Sonic couldn't run through loops properly?

[Kuzu]

I didn't mean to be insulting, I'm just confused. They spent four years on that game and no one realized that classic Sonic couldn't run through loops properly?

Classic Sonic was never meant to be in the game to begin with, so you can tell they didn't bother polishing him.

[Diogenes]

Classic Sonic was never meant to be in the game to begin with

????

[Indigo Rush]

I'm gonna have to call for a citation for that one. What's your source?