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3 hours ago, Meta77 said:

For me Chris ruined the show for me. My lord he was annoying and unneeded. Also I wish they had stuck with the original season 3 idea instead of the metarix.

 I think Chris was necessary given the context of the world they created. Could have done without him in the Metarix arc though, or made him retain his age to really show his progress. What was the original idea for the season though?

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You see, I'm probably the very, very, very, very, very, very, very few folks that liked Chris. On that point, I wished that instead of of trying to transport to Sonic's world, he should've  just stayed home. I mean, his story is complete so why have him come back? Also, I really loved the Meterax saga, but Chris ruined it for me a little. What I wanted for the thrid season is just to have all the Sonic characters in it and not have Chris returned. 

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14 hours ago, BradAric said:

 I think Chris was necessary given the context of the world they created. Could have done without him in the Metarix arc though, or made him retain his age to really show his progress. What was the original idea for the season though?

For me chris literally served no purpose. The first episodes opening was epic. Sonic raiding eggmans base. But as soon as that warp and they showed chris.......i knew what dark hell awaited. Also the original story revolved around the chaos emeralds and nazo. But they scrapped him.

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46 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

For me chris literally served no purpose. The first episodes opening was epic. Sonic raiding eggmans base. But as soon as that warp and they showed chris.......i knew what dark hell awaited. Also the original story revolved around the chaos emeralds and nazo. But they scrapped him.

He needed some sort of link to the human world. Chris provided that, while his family provided that link for Sonic's friends, just like Topaz provided a link for Rouge and Hawk for Knuckles.

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I think the whole "trapped in the human world" plot was what ruined Sonic X in the first place.  It's not like humans don't exist in the Sonic games.  Why are Sonic shows so reluctant to just give us a show about the real, actual Sonic instead of just making up some contrived reason why Sonic has to be in some outlandish circumstance instead of in a relatively normal status quo.  It's similar to how the Batman Arkham games absolutely REFUSE to let us play in some of the most iconic parts of the Batman series and when we do, there's always some annoying twist that is used to weasle out of actually giving us a relatively normal experience.

I mean, don't get me wrong, there's nothing BAD about shaking up the status quo a little bit, but when that change becomes so common, there REALLY is no status quo to shake up, and that's not good, either. 

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At the time the series aired, a lot of the fanbase was criticizing Sega for introducing normal humans into Sonic's world. Now we accept it as normal, but at the time I think they were trying to give a reason humans (besides Eggman) suddenly appeared in the Sonic universe. I thought it was quite a clever way of addressing that criticism personally.

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I never considered additional humans in Sonic to be a problem, considering I was never under the mindset that there weren't  more humans aside from Eggman.  I just looked at it the same way I look at Looney Tunes.  The humans and talking animals coexist and nobody cares otherwise.  Even at that, I feel the whole "separate world" story is sort of overplayed and is pretty much never done well to the point where I would have taken Archie's (admittedly cringeworthy) backstory over it. D:

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I did like how X's plot at least lampshaded how completely alien Sonic's designs looked up against the Adventure human ones (especially since there were only a handful of anthros up against an entire civilisation of photo realistic humans). At least Looney Tunes was a fairly equal population of cartoon animals and cartoon humans.

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I mean, I guess.  It just never bothered me that much that Sonic was stand-outishly different than everyone else.  Doraemon might be a better example.  Doraemon is literally the only robot gadget cat from the future within the main cast, but even people who aren't previously aware of Doraemon's existence don't question it when they first meet him, and most people sort of just accept that fact about the series.

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So, I mentioned this a few weeks ago back on Sonic XStream, but I thought I'd make a full post about an idea I had about Season 3.

As you all know, one of the major themes of the season is betrayal, and friendship, and the main character arc is revealed for Cosmo. For those that don't know, it gets revealed that Cosmo is an unwilling spy for the Materix, due to her eyes and ears somehow having a connection with Dark Oak. This then gets played up as a actually willing betrayal with them arguing if Cosmo should be even near them again. 

However, I think the arc falls apart for one major reason. Cosmo is an unwilling spy, and that's where it fails. Because Cosmo is unwilling to actually spy for the Materix, it makes a lot of what follows feel rather hollow and cheap. Everyone else forgives Cosmo, despite the fact there is really nothing to forgive her for due to not actually having done anything wrong on purpose, and following onwards, it really cheapens the impact of her sacrifice as she didn't really have anything to atone for because she didn't purposely doing anything wrong. While she may have unwittingly spied for Dark Oak, it was revealed relatively soon after, Cosmo felt ashamed for helping him despite it not even being her choice, and in the end, it didn't really amount to much. 

So I mentioned how I would've improved it on XStream, and a lot of people seemed to agree with me. But I think Cosmo should have been a villain for half of the season.

Now hear me out. Cosmo lands on Mobius, crying a message of peace and wanting to stop the Materix, despite her connections to the group. Regardless, it's taken at face value due to Sonic and his friends' overly trusting nature. Throughout the season, various things would begin mysteriously occurring on the Typhoon, and causing losses for Tails/Sonic and in the Dark Super Sonic episode, we finally get confirmation of Cosmo being a willing Materix spy. Instead of the absolutely shit filler episodes, one or two of them get altered to show Cosmo's origins.

And my idea for Cosmo is her race ended up losing her as a baby, and she got found by Dark Oak. Believing that The Materix was the only remains of her species, she gets brainwashed by the rest of the Materix that their plant species is the only species that should exist and she's finally of age to help in their plans right as Season 3 begins. Due to her appearance being vastly different due to her birthplace, they realized Cosmo wouldn't work as an heavy hitter Materix, so instead they decided to take advantage of her sweet and kind appearance to spy on Sonic's group, and hijack and screw around with Tails' plans and inventions, as well as feeding them information on emerald locations. 

However, as the episodes goes on, Cosmo begins seeing another world altogether with Sonic and his friends, when she gets true companions and friendship from them. This could have also heavily tied into the Tailsmo arc of the season, since maybe at a breaking point, it's the growing feelings for Tails that truly make her realize the error of her, and the Materix's ways. Shadow would then gain information on the betrayal, and reveal it in the Assassin Shadow episode. This would lead to heavy doubt towards Cosmo from Sonic and his friends, while Cosmo ends up getting overridden with guilt for her actions. This all builds up to the episode where the true origins of the Materix are revealed, and this inspires new hope into Cosmo to make things right, as well as getting payback on the Metarix for lying to her since childbirth.

In the ultimate act of atonement, she ends up giving her life to save the galaxy, and rid the universe of the Materix forever, as well as reviving her race. 

What do you guys think?

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i don't necessarily think Cosmo being a villain would make her a better character, nor do I think it would have made the spy thing any more interesting.  What I think would have been better (and bearing in mind, I haven't watched Sonic X in so long so this may even be what happened) is that Cosmo was essentially forced to spy for the Metarex because they had threatened her or someone/something close to her or had offered her something (the return of her planet's Planet Egg or some such thing) she literally couldn't refuse.  That way, we can actually empathize with her position while also understanding the hurt feelings of the main characters.

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4 hours ago, Tara said:

i don't necessarily think Cosmo being a villain would make her a better character, nor do I think it would have made the spy thing any more interesting.  What I think would have been better (and bearing in mind, I haven't watched Sonic X in so long so this may even be what happened) is that Cosmo was essentially forced to spy for the Metarex because they had threatened her or someone/something close to her or had offered her something (the return of her planet's Planet Egg or some such thing) she literally couldn't refuse.  That way, we can actually empathize with her position while also understanding the hurt feelings of the main characters.

I disagree about making her a better character though, as I think a villain turned hero story could add a lot more to her character arc. Not only that, but it'd be interesting where Sonic's overly trusting nature actually bites them in the butt, while Knux's more cautious nature around new people actually turns out to be correct. Your idea about her being forced to spy for the Materix would be good too though.

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1 minute ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

I disagree about making her a better character though, as I think a villain turned hero story could add a lot more to her character arc. Not only that, but it'd be interesting where Sonic's overly trusting nature actually bites them in the butt, while Knux's more cautious nature around new people actually turns out to be correct. Your idea about her being forced to spy for the Materix would be good too though.

i mean, a villain turned hero story is always good... I just don't see it working for Cosmo specifically.  I don't know.  I feel like it's not too far from half-way through the series suddenly revealing that Cream was actually using Eggman as a sockpuppet for her own world conquest plans the whole time.

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Just now, Tara said:

i mean, a villain turned hero story is always good... I just don't see it working for Cosmo specifically.  I don't know.  I feel like it's not too far from half-way through the series suddenly revealing that Cream was actually using Eggman as a sockpuppet for her own world conquest plans the whole time.

Being fair, Cream's snark in X was the real villain because it hurt everyone's feelings :U

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7 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

...

As you all know, one of the major themes of the season is betrayal, and friendship, and the main character arc is revealed for Cosmo. For those that don't know, it gets revealed that Cosmo is an unwilling spy for the Materix, due to her eyes and ears somehow having a connection with Dark Oak. This then gets played up as a actually willing betrayal with them arguing if Cosmo should be even near them again. 

However, I think the arc falls apart for one major reason. Cosmo is an unwilling spy, and that's where it fails. Because Cosmo is unwilling to actually spy for the Materix, it makes a lot of what follows feel rather hollow and cheap. Everyone else forgives Cosmo, despite the fact there is really nothing to forgive her for due to not actually having done anything wrong on purpose, and following onwards, it really cheapens the impact of her sacrifice as she didn't really have anything to atone for because she didn't purposely doing anything wrong. While she may have unwittingly spied for Dark Oak, it was revealed relatively soon after, Cosmo felt ashamed for helping him despite it not even being her choice, and in the end, it didn't really amount to much. 

...

Actually it is a bit more complicated than that...

When her ship was captured by Scarship, she had the choice to die with the rest of her ship, or somehow submit to Dark Oak - she obviously chose the only way in which she would live and this was somehow blocked from her memory (and perhaps what that submission entailed was either blocked to or just done so she could not know)

The heroes never really blamed her for such an impossible choice, not even Knuckles who seemed to argue for the procedure only on the grounds that it would be a tactical mistake not to also kept talking about freeing her from Oak. But she blamed herself and that is what mattered for her in her sacrifice.

Admittedly I am only going on Hulu's Japanese Subs version and do not remember the English Dubs version that well - but the Japanese version is more canon in my opinion.

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On 1 August 2016 at 1:17 AM, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Being fair, Cream's snark in X was the real villain because it hurt everyone's feelings :U

Only Knuckles really. He seemed to have that whole Meg Griffin-ish 'bad air' around everyone in X. :P

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6 hours ago, goku262002 said:

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2016-08-09/hulu-ends-free-streaming-as-yahoo-launches-own-service-with-anime/.105163

Hulu is ending its free streaming service. shouldn't we try to save those JP/subs episodes 4kids left behind on Hulu before they close off the free service?

Meh. I use the paid service anyways, so it doesn't matter to me.

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4 minutes ago, SonicEkkusu said:

Meh. I use the paid service anyways, so it doesn't matter to me.

Thats the thing, they may not be there when Hulu goes to paid. the site itself is going through a redesign and allot of its unneeded content is being transferred or purged, this part of the site is basically forgotten. 4kids doesn't run it anymore and TMS won't care if Hulu doesn't transfer it or not, and they aren't going to cater to a niche audience if Hulu wants money from TMS to keep Sonic X on Hulu.

I really do think that its about time we get these episodes ripped just in case they are removed entirely, we can't count on Discotek releasing a JP/subs set anytime soon.

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1 hour ago, goku262002 said:

Thats the thing, they may not be there when Hulu goes to paid. the site itself is going through a redesign and allot of its unneeded content is being transferred or purged, this part of the site is basically forgotten. 4kids doesn't run it anymore and TMS won't care if Hulu doesn't transfer it or not, and they aren't going to cater to a niche audience if Hulu wants money from TMS to keep Sonic X on Hulu.

I really do think that its about time we get these episodes ripped just in case they are removed entirely, we can't count on Discotek releasing a JP/subs set anytime soon.

I really wish they'd just release the more popular Japanese version of the show instead of the English version that pretty much nobody cares about. Ashuraou said the dub is popular with kids, but 99.999% of Sonic fans are adults. Kids just don't like Sonic, which is one reason I don't see that set doing well.

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2 hours ago, goku262002 said:

I really do think that its about time we get these episodes ripped just in case they are removed entirely, we can't count on Discotek releasing a JP/subs set anytime soon.

A group called Stitch Encodes already ripped all of the episodes from the Japanese/French DVDs (with the JP audio for the latter) and transplanted the Hulu subs onto them a while ago.

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1 hour ago, Sean said:

A group called Stitch Encodes already ripped all of the episodes from the Japanese/French DVDs (with the JP audio for the latter) and transplanted the Hulu subs onto them a while ago.

...Really now?

Mind linking? so long as the subs are preserved and we can easily access them I don't mind whatever happens to X on Hulu. sucks seeing the last legal source of the JP/subs version of X purged though.

1 thing, I heard some of the hulu episodes were a bit different then standard JP DVD releases. can't recall if it was either music or small animation changes. was that ever true?

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