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On 9/5/2016 at 6:40 AM, davethesodaguy said:

I think I'll say what was already said here but the Sonic OVA and Sonic CD Animations are much better and capture Sonic in motion in a much more awesome way than this, after all those animations were done by the greats at TOEI.

Sonic CD animation was done by Toei (co-production with Studio JunIo), but Sonic OVA animation was done by Studio Pierrot

Wouldn't call Toei great because that would mean they put out good animation in their anime nowadays. I do agree that both animation do capture Sonic in motion better than Sonic X did.

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Hell, if you want to go further, that goes into why people see Helen as the more popular character. Unlike Chris, she is going through hardships due to her being confined to a wheelchair, and therefore losing out on a whole lot of the childhood experiences that the other kids get to partake. It's why the episode where Sonic and Helen evade G.U.N is so well done. It isn't Sonic being kind to a kid who's "supposedly lonely" when he's really rich, loved, envied, and has an entire circle of friends, and Sonic and his pals is just yet another element of greed to the kid. When it's Sonic and Helen however, it works because it's Sonic giving up his time to help out someone in a truly unfortunately situation. Sonic is being selfless by stepping out of the limelight that Station Square is desperately trying to throw him into as a ratings trap in order to show this girl a wonderful day by taking her to the one island she's always wanted to travel to, but couldn't due to her disability. This is the strongest moment of characterization I think Sonic actually had throughout the entirety of X because it shows off his selfless nature that's always present despite his bombastic and showoff attitude. 

Chris is the one character that destroyed a lot of the good nature I had towards X during the rewatch with X-Stream. People who were present can back up how fucking livid I was during the Season 2 finale when they tried to throw in this bullshit about Chris placing two entire planets at risk because he was "miserable, and lonely". I don't fucking care what stupid crap they say. Chris had it fucking made. His family was loaded with cash, his friends and the people he fucking knew practically revolved around him and his utter nonsense, and the end, where they still tried to make it seem like Chris was in the right by doing what he did with forcing Sonic to stay, and furthermore making Sonic actually agree with Chris and even make Chris the mary-sue of the fucking show again, they were the last fucking straws for me. Chris is a selfish fucker of a character, and one I fucking despise. 

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I kind of wish that Helen episode could have just been a Helen episode.  None of that "evading the government" nonsense.  Because without that, you have a very solid slice-of-life episode that is justifiably emotional and hits home with plenty of kids, I'm sure.  In fact, part of me wishes Helen had just replaced Chris altogether, but another part of me thinks the magic is in the fact that it is just one episode.  That, and because I think the show would have been significantly better off without forcing an audience avatar into the show to begin with.

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5 minutes ago, Tara said:

I kind of wish that Helen episode could have just been a Helen episode.  None of that "evading the government" nonsense.  Because without that, you have a very solid slice-of-life episode that is justifiably emotional and hits home with plenty of kids, I'm sure.  In fact, part of me wishes Helen had just replaced Chris altogether, but another part of me thinks the magic is in the fact that it is just one episode.  That, and because I think the show would have been significantly better off without forcing an audience avatar into the show to begin with.

Don't get me wrong. I would've preferred the series not have a audience avatar in general, but if they really had to have one, I definitely would've at least preferred Helen to Chris, as at the very least, Helen would've had legitimate reasons for sympathizing with her. Maybe even make it that Helen's disabilities made her feel a little isolated from her peers, and then when Sonic and his friends enter her life, it encourages her to not allow her disabilities to drag her down, and connect with people, and make friends.  

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Just now, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Don't get me wrong. I would've preferred the series not have a audience avatar in general, but if they really had to have one, I definitely would've at least preferred Helen to Chris, as at the very least, Helen would've had legitimate reasons for sympathizing with her. Maybe even make it that Helen's disabilities made her feel a little isolated from her peers, and then when Sonic and his friends enter her life, it encourages her to not allow her disabilities to drag her down, and connect with people, and make friends.  

And thus would springboard her career as a crimefighter under the alias of Oracle.

Spoiler


Actually, shit.  That would be pretty awesome.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Our old friend, Ken Penders already beat us sadly Tara :(

tumblr_oc1758VUOv1r4l23to1_500.png

All I saw was Bat-Sonic and Tails in bed and thought Ken Penders was clever enough to make a Killing Joke reference, but I see now I was mistaken.

(But actually, that part was pretty cute, so I'll cut him some slack)

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7 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

And then she got married to Chris. 

Oh wait that happened

My head-canon is this officially: 

Because there's nothing likable with Chris whatsoever, so I find it more realistic she just wanted cash. But I forgot this is Sonic X and he is the mary-sue of this Sonic universe so it's a fucking surprise he didn't have Amy, Helen, Rouge, and all of the other female characters fighting over him or some shit considering how much the show loved to promote Chris. 

5 minutes ago, Tara said:

All I saw was Bat-Sonic and Tails in bed and thought Ken Penders was clever enough to make a Killing Joke reference, but I see now I was mistaken.

(But actually, that part was pretty cute, so I'll cut him some slack)

That's 1 positive point to....4 billion, 82 million, 807 thousand, 200, and 83 and a half negative points.

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5 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Because there's nothing likable with Chris whatsoever, so I find it more realistic she just wanted cash. But I forgot this is Sonic X and he is the mary-sue of this Sonic universe so it's a fucking surprise he didn't have Amy, Helen, Rouge, and all of the other female characters fighting over him or some shit considering how much the show loved to promote Chris. 

Well, also, Helen's the only memorable female character that's in the same age range as Chris and not an animal, so it was really the only choice they had aside from just pairing him up with a stranger.  So I guess they thought that we'd care about that sort of thing. =P

7 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

That's 1 positive point to....4 billion, 82 million, 807 thousand, 200, and 83 and a half negative points.

Well, I mean, I think Penders was actually a pretty decent writer (for the stories he was given) in Archie's very early run.  But towards around issue 50 or so, he started getting... well, weird, to put it one way.

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6 minutes ago, Tara said:

Well, also, Helen's the only memorable female character that's in the same age range as Chris and not an animal, so it was really the only choice they had aside from just pairing him up with a stranger.  So I guess they thought that we'd care about that sort of thing. =P

I'd have preferred Chris to be single, just to spare one of the few decent human characters being associated with him, and spending an entire season basically saying "oh i hope chris is ok".

6 minutes ago, Tara said:

Well, I mean, I think Penders was actually a pretty decent writer (for the stories he was given) in Archie's very early run.  But towards around issue 50 or so, he started getting... well, weird, to put it one way.

I'd use a different word than weird.

knuxsu_88202_2.jpg?cache=1293759928

Spoiler

strange, scary, creepy, disturbing, somewhat unnatural, haunting, frightful, awful, terrible, shit, crap, bad, somewhat on the range of negative, dreadful, nasty, vile, horrid, horrible, atrocious, loathsome, repulsive, sickening, revolting, foul, abominable, horrendous, gruesome, lousy. 

yeah, those words could sum it all up.

and yes, vector is hitting on that goose. 

 

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Yeah, when I was researching Dulcy's old stories, I found her contributions under Penders were actually decent to good, even if the stories may or may not have been the greatest ever (Dulcy Endgame: characterisation was nice, powers were deux ex machina), but there were some nice ones in there. In fact, one of the highlights was 15 issues after Endgame, so I dunno what was going on there. Maybe it really was the Echidna stuff that sent him the way we know him today. 

Speaking of Dulcy, she's seen as to SatAM was Chris was to Sonic X. So I should shut up and stop being off topic. 

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Anyway, this isn't a topic about Ken Penders, so it's probably best we move on from that.

14 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

I'd have preferred Chris to be single, just to spare one of the few decent human characters being associated with him, and spending an entire season basically saying "oh i hope chris is ok".

That's actually something that bothers me about season 3.  Chris literally leaves his wife and family behind to be with Sonic and friends, and I can't help but feel that's kind of selfish?  Oh, hey, Helen I married you and you're the love of my life but you're not a talking hedgehog so...

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2 minutes ago, Tara said:

Anyway, this isn't a topic about Ken Penders, so it's probably best we move on from that.

That's actually something that bothers me about season 3.  Sonic literally leaves his wife and family behind to be with Sonic and friends, and I can't help but feel that's kind of selfish?  Oh, hey, Helen I married you and you're the love of my life but you're not a talking hedgehog so...

Well, maybe there's a reason that Chris always acts like a clingy boyfriend/girlfriend every time Sonic leaves him? :U

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4 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

I don't remember that part of Generations. 

Meant Chris.  My bad. XD

4 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Well, maybe there's a reason that Chris always acts like a clingy boyfriend/girlfriend every time Sonic leaves him? :U

Well, I mean, to be fair, if I met a talking hedgehog that could run fast, I'd be clingy, too, but still.

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4 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

I don't remember that part of Generations. 

You don't remember that part? That was the mandated crossover with Mobius 25 Years Later!

2 minutes ago, Tara said:

Well, I mean, to be fai, if I met a talking hedgehog that could run fast, I'd be clingy, too, but still.

So clingy that you'd destroy two worlds for him? :U

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2 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Hell, if you want to go further, that goes into why people see Helen as the more popular character. Unlike Chris, she is going through hardships due to her being confined to a wheelchair, and therefore losing out on a whole lot of the childhood experiences that the other kids get to partake. It's why the episode where Sonic and Helen evade G.U.N is so well done. It isn't Sonic being kind to a kid who's "supposedly lonely" when he's really rich, loved, envied, and has an entire circle of friends, and Sonic and his pals is just yet another element of greed to the kid. When it's Sonic and Helen however, it works because it's Sonic giving up his time to help out someone in a truly unfortunately situation. Sonic is being selfless by stepping out of the limelight that Station Square is desperately trying to throw him into as a ratings trap in order to show this girl a wonderful day by taking her to the one island she's always wanted to travel to, but couldn't due to her disability. This is the strongest moment of characterization I think Sonic actually had throughout the entirety of X because it shows off his selfless nature that's always present despite his bombastic and showoff attitude. 

Chris is the one character that destroyed a lot of the good nature I had towards X during the rewatch with X-Stream. People who were present can back up how fucking livid I was during the Season 2 finale when they tried to throw in this bullshit about Chris placing two entire planets at risk because he was "miserable, and lonely". I don't fucking care what stupid crap they say. Chris had it fucking made. His family was loaded with cash, his friends and the people he fucking knew practically revolved around him and his utter nonsense, and the end, where they still tried to make it seem like Chris was in the right by doing what he did with forcing Sonic to stay, and furthermore making Sonic actually agree with Chris and even make Chris the mary-sue of the fucking show again, they were the last fucking straws for me. Chris is a selfish fucker of a character, and one I fucking despise. 

It's funny because when I think about it, that one episode was kinda Sonic's story in 06 done infinitely better.

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I disagree that Helen would make a good replacement for Chris. I mean, I do understand why people like her and I like her as well (more so than Chris' other friends who don't do shit). But here's the thing, at least she has both parents living with her and she does get to spend time with them and they aren't selfish (the parents). Yes her father works alot but he does it for her and the family. Chris on the other hand, not only does he rarely see his parents, but they are kinda shallow and selfish in their thinking (yeah lets buy Chris his own toy store, that'd make him come back! let's bribe him with useless junk). I mean there was one episode where his mom was sad she had to leave but that's all we saw of her *shrug*. Then we got the father who is even more narrow and selfish and can be overbearing at times. 

Yes Chris as a butler, his grandfather and a maid, but they aren't his parents. He wants his parents to be around, and having Sonic around filled that void.

EDIT: Having it all financally is one thing, having everything sprtially, emotionally, mentally is another and are not the same. 

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16 minutes ago, Mikyeong said:

Chris on the other hand, not only does he rarely see his parents, but they are kinda shallow and selfish in their thinking (yeah lets buy Chris his own toy store, that'd make him come back! let's bribe him with useless junk).

Except, as stated, this is contradicted by various episodes where we see him and his parents together to the point where it's not really a rarity.  I'd also add that they aren't really selfish.  Chris' mother is grief-stricken when she's forced to leave her son in episode 6.  Shallow, maybe, but that toy store remark still came from a place of love, even if it wasn't the ideal solution.  It's not that they're bad people, they're just misguided and privileged to a fault.

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12 minutes ago, Mikyeong said:

I disagree that Helen would make a good replacement for Chris. I mean, I do understand why people like her and I like her as well (more so than Chris' other friends who don't do shit). But here's the thing, at least she has both parents living with her and she does get to spend time with them and they aren't selfish (the parents). Yes her father works alot but he does it for her and the family. Chris on the other hand, not only does he rarely see his parents, but they are kinda shallow and selfish in their thinking (yeah lets buy Chris his own toy store, that'd make him come back! let's bribe him with useless junk). I mean there was one episode where his mom was sad she had to leave but that's all we saw of her *shrug*. Then we got the father who is even more narrow and selfish and can be overbearing at times. 

Yes Chris as a butler, his grandfather and a maid, but they aren't his parents. He wants his parents to be around, and having Sonic around filled that void.

EDIT: Having it all financally is one thing, having everything sprtially, emotionally, mentally is another and are not the same. 

But his parents do care for Chris, and care for him a great deal. That was another issue of the Season 2 finale. This entire conflict comes entirely out of the writer's ass to try justify Chris and it fails on so many levels. Many episodes show Chris' parents being there for him, taking whatever little free time they get from their very busy jobs to spend it with Chris. That fact can never be changed. They literally take every single chance they get to spend time for Chris, and considering said jobs are those of a business tycoon, and a movie star, you need to understand that is a serious commitment to spending every second of free time with Chris. They aren't shallow or selfish in their thinking either. The toy store nonsense was one overly flanderized example in an attempt to justify the story arc. Every other instance has them showing extreme guilt at the fact they never get to spend time with Chris, and they try to make it up to him by spending as much time as possible with him.

There's also the fact that there's numerous instances where they pull strings everywhere to try make Chris happy. His mother convinces a fucking movie producer to allow her child, and bunch of his friends stay, and live off the production of a movie just so she can spend a little time with him. As soon as they thought Chris was in danger, his mother held up the entire production of a film to return home, as did his father when he left an very important meeting. Not to mention Tara's point that episodes constantly show them spending time with Chris. Season 2 especially rarely has an episode where the family aren't together, which makes the finale even more of a total failure. 

And that point can be turned against you. Sonic and his friends aren't his parents either. Why would they fill the void? And one episode? Are you kidding me? There's tons of episodes where they show sadness, concern, and worry towards Chris. 

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8 minutes ago, Tara said:

Except, as stated, this is contradicted by various episodes where we see him and his parents together to the point where it's not really a rarity.  I'd also add that they aren't really selfish.  Chris' mother is grief-stricken when she's forced to leave her son in episode 6.  Shallow, maybe, but that toy store remark still came from a place of love, even if it wasn't the ideal solution.  It's not that they're bad people, they're just misguided and privileged to a fault.

Of course I don't think they are bad people. As characters, I personally find them annoying. Do I think it should have bee done better? Yeah. 

Episode 6 was the one I was referring to. Also, I wanted to see more of his friends. Besides Helen the others feel like they are just....there.

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1 minute ago, Mikyeong said:

Of course I don't think they are bad people. As characters, I personally find them annoying. Do I think it should have bee done better? Yeah. 

Episode 6 was the one I was referring to. Also, I wanted to see more of his friends. Besides Helen the others feel like they are just....there.

I mean, that's fair enough.  Sonic X's characterization was bad in pretty much all aspects, but I don't think that justifies Chris over Helen as the obligatory audience avatar role.

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