Sonic Underground

[Remynaka]

So this is what a majority of cosplayers I see are actually dressing up as. It all makes sense now...

My... eyes..... And sega ALLOWED THIS? Yet we can't see Nega in the comics? FAIL!!!! >

[Dr. Crusher]

If it wasn't for me not being a masochist, I'd go out of my way to look back at the entire series just to rank the most fucked up character designs. (Apart from Hooter, the Stadium's champion.)

[-blank-]

Is it bad for me to say that I actually kinda liked this show? Yeah, the designs were hit and miss (more miss) and the songs sucked, but there was still something about it I enjoyed. Plus, Manic is win. I don't care what anyone says. This reminds me that I should actually try and finish watching the series though...

[Mauro Fonseca]

I'm aware it's a cocktail of nostalgia and love for lousy french sci-fi. But goddamn I quite enjoy this show, exactly for all it does wrong! I love the nonsense designs, the silly Robotnik, the son-- WHOA NELLY I was getting carried away.

Knuckles' songs are rad. The rest... eh.

[Dejablue]

a friend of mine jokingly calls Underground the off brand SatAM. And I guess that isn't a far off definition of this show as a whole. Kinda the same concept just not as good. For me the only thing I liked was Sonic and Manic. They had pretty good bro chemistry. But that's it. Wut is it with the Sonic franchise and green hedgehogs lol.

Wasn't that Bartelby character just Antoine but even more of a coward? I could tell the show wasn't even trying to be original. It had Uncle Chuck, underground resistance, all that stuff. Why God. Why did this happen and not SatAM's third season?

Edited September 18, 2012 by Dejablue

[Phos]

Once in a while Sonia's voice slips into full urkel. I always found this amusing.

[PC the Hedgehog]

Oh hey that brings me to another issue with Sonic Underground.

What the fuck was up with the character designs? It's like they didn't even try to be consistent or make it match the general feel of Sonic. Things like bug people or aliens look so fucking weird when placed next to Sonic.

Worse than the abominations of creation Sonic encountered on a regular basis in AoStH?

[Soniman]

Yes. Because unlike Aosth, we are actually supposed to take the ridiculous designs seriously.

[Aquaslash]

First off, just a pet peeve. It's MANIC. With a C! The Manik character is from an entirely different continuity and even timeline! The C is important cause of the stupid name pun. Swap the last letter of Sonia and Manic's names and you get "Sonic Mania". Man, I wanna slap these character name guys for these puns sometimes.

At any rate, I think it's well known around these parts that this is my favorite Sonic show, and I think it's equally well known as to why. Yes yes, it's quite a shallow reason but whatever. My boats are floating. Having been unable to see the series in full until after I had been subjected to the horrors of both "Believe in Myself (SA2)" and "We Can", I found all of the songs right tolerable, and some of them actually good. Not surprised with the whole music angle either. The third Season of Street Sharks, as well as certain episodes of Extreme Dinosaurs would often feature music videos, so it's only natural that DiC would want to follow through with this to it's natural conclusion. I do recall hearing that the pitch for Underground was for a music based show that had nothing to do at all with Sonic, and Sonic got tacked in there for some reason.

It's a shame the guys at archie can't seem to do anything with Sonia and Manic though. I'd love to see them in a better environment and see how they could interact with some of the other Sonic characters. I figure Tails and Manic would probably be bros of some sort, and Sonia would probably hate Rouge and be either intrigued, or disgusted at the entire concept of Shadow.

EDIT: Oh, I forgot my obligatory Aleena > Bernadette. At least the designers tried with one of them.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Aqua Buster

[Law]

Horrible show, it's like they wanted a show with characters singing but they added Sonic so it could appeal to kids.

Sonia's voice is irritating, but you can get used to it after a few episodes.

[Tornado]

Worse than the abominations of creation Sonic encountered on a regular basis in AoStH?

The world's sexiest fat man wacky and expressive character designs from AoStH served their own purpose within the show, and were done like that on purpose if the show's animators are to be believed. Most of Underground's designs seemed like nothing more than rejected stuff they found in the storage closet while they were getting rid of SatAM stuff.

Edited September 21, 2012 by Tornado

[Multikaris]

For all the awful and downright disturbing this series is, it looks like Pokemon compared to the Darkstalkers cartoon:

[Dejablue]

lol Darkstalkers.

Anyway Underground was supposed to be a serious story. But nothing in the show LOOKED serious. Everything looked like it was meant to be laughed at.

[nintega137]

Why did the oracle tell Dr. Robotnik of the prophecy of the three hedgehogs? Doesn't that put them at a disadvantage when he's trying to kill them now when before he would have never known about it?

[SenEDDtor Missile]

The only answer I can think of is that the Oracle is secretly helping Queen Aleena prepare her children for the inevitable power vacuum and responsibilities of being royalty that would come after Robotnik fell by making Robotnik do the testing for them (without his knowledge). After all, just because they are the good guys now doesn't mean they'll remain that way after they get a taste of power (which the alternate dimension where they were all corrupt proves that the possibility isn't out of the question). Plus it was probably the best way considering the circumstances to get them to know each other and thus prevent any sibling rivalries that could make ruling together even more of a pain later..

[Spin Attaxx]

The Oracle is the real bad guy in Underground. Clearly. Dude even had a chance to off Robotnik in his sleep but instead told him his entire fucking plan years ahead of time, thus sparking Nosehead to start hunting down the three and declare war on the resistance.

 

So thanks, buddy.

 

As a side note, Nintega, you could just ask these sorts of questions in the status updates instead of devoting whole topics to them.

[Jix Hedgehog]

I guess the Oracle wasn't good nor bad.. he was just relaying a message about the inevitable future thus preparing both sides.

 

I'm sure the team behind the series had some ending in mind where things would be explained, but since that didn't happen and the Archie version of the ending was axed (?), we'll never know

[Tani Coyote]

Hardship tends to build moral fiber, getting everything on a platter tends not to.

As was mentioned, if the triplets had it easy, it's very possible they would have grown up spoiled and corrupt as they had in that alternate universe. Witnessing Robotnik's injustices first hand reinforced their moral backbones and helped them make sure they would never end up that way.

The alternate reality's basis is fairly simple: Robotnik is still a very capable individual in that reality, he just wasn't power hungry and so didn't overthrow the government. The triplets succeeded naturally (presumably that world's Aleena abdicated or perhaps died (presumably from natural causes, as her children aren't really "evil" so much as incredibly misguided and unable to notice the harm they're doing)), but never having known the meaning of hardship, could not understand the concept. They readily threw people in jail, leveled neighborhoods, destroyed entire economies with taxation... the list goes on.

Living through that Hell was a good way to make sure they'd never create it themselves.

Yes I just found a philosophical message in a cartoon that's easily confused for a fanfiction. That's how I am.

[Ducktor Naldush]

I dunno, maybe is the fact that the Italian dub decided to give the Oracle the same voice actor they gave to the Joker, of all things (also Scratcher from Aosth), but I always thought that, deep down, the Oracle had other, personal, reasons to help the hedgehogs. Maybe he was planned to be the bigger bad all along, but we'll never know.

[Tani Coyote]

With regards to the Oracle...

The ability to read the future often tends to carry with it an aura of amorality. You might be "good" in your long-term goals, but you will happily ruin the present if it will make the future a better place.

It was either (if it has the same timespan as SatAM) 10 years of Robotnik's tyranny followed by benevolent tetrarchy, or 10 years of kindhearted Aleena's rule followed by decades of spoiled brats having absolute power. Not being stuck in the heat of the moment allows the Oracle to make the better choice: Robotnik must be able to win, at least at the start, for the good of the future.

Of course the implications of the alternate reality is that Aleena might not have been able to rule with her kids for very long even if she did depose Robotnik.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Headcanon: I wonder if the reason Robotnik came into power was because the King (Aleena's husband) was a decadant and neglectful king, and while Queen Aleena did her best to try to help out her citizens, the people's resent towards the king eventually led to support for Robotnik until they realized too late that he was even worse?

[Kiah]

Why did the oracle tell Dr. Robotnik of the prophecy of the three hedgehogs? Doesn't that put them at a disadvantage when he's trying to kill them now when before he would have never known about it?

 

Nintega137, I'm quoting here you to let you know that your topic was merged with an existing and general Sonic Underground topic. In the future please try using our search function here to see if there is a general topic you can add your question to as opposed to making a separate topic about it as not all questions we would like an answer to warrants a topic of their own in a general sense. Or feel free to ask these questions in a status update instead.

 

Speaking of...

 

As a side note, Nintega, you could just ask these sorts of questions in the status updates instead of devoting whole topics to them.

 

While your help is appreciated as well as agreeing with you, Spin Attaxx, it isn't your call make these kinds of suggestions as they are along the lines of backseat moderating. If you feel a topic has been made in error, please report it so the staff can look into and possibly take care of it if need be, please.

[Tani Coyote]

Headcanon: I wonder if the reason Robotnik came into power was because the King (Aleena's husband) was a decadant and neglectful king, and while Queen Aleena did her best to try to help out her citizens, the people's resent towards the king eventually led to support for Robotnik until they realized too late that he was even worse?

Underground's very light in its approach for obvious reasons, but it's obvious there's more politics at play in Underground than SatAM. In SatAM, Robotnik just took over and began to enslave one part of the planet after another.

Underground's Robotnik is a more realistic dictator. In reality, most tyrants aren't able to rule with absolute power, but instead have an elite that backs them. They may periodically imprison, kill, or otherwise eliminate members of the elite, but that elite is always there. The aristocrats serve as Robotnik's oligarchy, the same way nobles and military leaders have for most real-world dictatorships. Notice that while Robotnik does sometimes persecute them (i.e. Sonia's adoptive family), he for the most part lets them do what they want. He's a more realistic tyrant in that he understands his regime can't survive if he alienates his supporters.

That in mind, I always pondered if the roboticization process in Underground is inherently cumbersome in some manner. If it wasn't, there's no rational reason Robotnik hasn't enslaved everyone on Mobius as he did in SatAM.

Unless of course, Robotnik has the foresight to know 100% control would be boring, and so deliberately avoids overusing the roboticizer so that there remain pockets of opposition and opportunities for political maneuvering to keep him entertained. If this is how he feels, Underground Robotnik inherently is a more interesting villain than SatAM's Robotnik, from what I can see.

However, back to the point - I'd think that it's perhaps the opposite. Aleena and her husband (who very well may already be deceased by series start; that would imply he was either a single child or that Aleena is a queen regnant and her husband was only a consort) were most likely just rulers, as it sounds like Mobius was a very good place prior to Robotnik's takeover. My presumption is the royal family stood up for their subjects and as a whole tried to better their lives as well as protect them from abuse.

The nobility naturally would not like that... historically on Earth, they never have. Robotnik probably promised the aristocrats unlimited ability to do what they wished if they backed him, and so, a lot of them did. And sure enough, Aleena's prologue states that that was exactly what happened in the aftermath: he let the aristocrats who supported him do whatever they wanted.

As a kid's show, they obviously won't go into detail, but the historical record is clear: an aristocrat would be able to imprison, kill, or otherwise hurt any ordinary person as they wanted, as is the trend in oligarchic societies. The only real limit to what an aristocrat could do would be whatever Robotnik deemed acceptable. Presumably, Robotnik would only get involved if a noble was causing serious unrest among peasants (like say, ordering the deaths of all newborn children... that's kind of excessive). But on a day to day basis... the aristocracy would have free reign over Mobius.

That they would support Robotnik financially, in my view, indicates that they obviously had a grievance against the previous rulers. They weren't tyrannical from what we can see, so they obviously were very benevolent... and benevolent governments are frequently pretty good at taxing their rich to a fair degree to make sure their poorest aren't eating dirt or sleeping in the streets. Along comes this round gentleman with promises of tax relief, near-unlimited power over the lives of peasants... well, golly gee, that's a pretty good offer!

Unfortunately, he needs a little money to build an army of killer robots... fortunately, any aristocrat usually has some of that to spare. It wouldn't be too much, after all... the Royal Army is probably a bit skeletonized due to a lack of war, presuming that Underground is like SatAM in the monarch's desire to dismantle the military. On that note, that would likely be another aristocratic grievance - nobles have normally always served in the military as a means to reinforce their privileges and prove their worth. Reducing the size of the army means less room for nobles to increase their social status through service as officers.

But yes. That's my take on it, at least.

[Spin Attaxx]

While your help is appreciated as well as agreeing with you, Spin Attaxx, it isn't your call make these kinds of suggestions as they are along the lines of backseat moderating. If you feel a topic has been made in error, please report it so the staff can look into and possibly take care of it if need be, please.

Yes miss sorry miss I just thought the guy would benefit from the advice sooner rather than later :<

[nintega137]

Well I'd like to say thank you to both of you for the advice and my apologies for my mistake.