A Reboot.......Of The Comic Series?

[kimplix]

if that happened, i would hang myself the next day

[Aquaslash]

^Damn bro, your life must suck ass if the only true meaning in it is from a comic book

[batson]

^Damn bro, your life must suck ass if the only true meaning in it is from a comic book

Bah, its called devotion! I guess your nerdiness level is to low to understand these things.

[Amomynous]

I would like a more game-focused comic.

I think it would be a good idea if Archie Sonic comic actually made separate stories rather than carrying on one extremely long story indefinitely, what I'm suggesting is that simular the Sonic games,each arc is a whole story.

Having no end in sight means writers have to continuously pull things out their backside to make the story continue and make sure it doesn't end, it also means a finale will never be written and it will be unfinished forever even when it stops being written.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Mysterics

[Mauro Fonseca]

*Yawn* I don't mind a reboot after 19 years of the same story that's definitely aged and taken a completely different course than what the creators of the series had in mind, and yes I understand it's frustrating to have constant reboots but I was just making point that this one is long overdue.

And sure it shares a good bit of Segasonic stuff at this point, but at the same time it's concepts are also so radically different in premise than the norm that at times it barely resembles the actual Sonic series. Is it really too much to ask for there to be a comic where they elaborate more on what goes on in the games?

Because really, it's not like with the current worries Sonic Team has been fed about featuring story content that they're ever going to from now on, or at least not for a long while from now.

You don't mind a reboot after 19 years because you're not even reading the damn thing. I don't give a flying fuck if Savage Dragon reboots, but I'll be certain the readership'll be pissed.

How has the story aged, how is it different from what the creators had in mind? Don't fall into this Azukara, you know better, you're a Retro member, you've read the interviews. What the creators had in mind was that Sonic goes against Eggman in a colourful world. SatAM missed that (the colourful part), but the comics mostly haven't. It's all still there. And fuck, there's an active effort to tell the tale with a spin right now.

And seriously, you're trying to argument Archie is old and stale as a reason for a SEGA-reboot? Guess what would happen under SEGA. It's called the Sonic X comic, that was seriously static and stale because SEGA didn't let them do anything.

At this point, at this point, not based on a couple comics you may have read 7 years ago, what core concepts do the games have that the comics can't have? Sonic as a drifter? Fucking easy to do if the writer wills it. What is there in the games right now that's so precious and that Archie has ruined so irredeemably it can't be done? What?

[Kuzu]

Because the comics are primarily stories first while games are stories second. It's apples and oranges; sure they're both entertainment, but one is a different media than the other.

And mind you, the comics are doing far better than the games by virtue of only being stories. Not to say they haven't had screwy arcs before, but considering the direction they're going now they're obviously doing better.

Exactly, you can't just suddenly make something storydriven, when story wasn't even the focus in the first place, not without adding in elements foreign to the series, hence the Archie series.

Archie has a hell of a lot in common with Sega Sonic aside from being an alternate continuity. Rings, Chaos Emeralds, Warp Rings, Levels and locations from the games like Station Square, Angel Island, Oil Ocean, Space Colony Ark, Death Egg, the use of Egg Pawns in a previous arc, Extreme Gear, they've used badniks in the past, even made reference to them in more recent issues prior to the current arc we're already in as Moguls workers in a casino, and then some.

And while they blend them together with elements from SatAM and a lot of their more exclusive material, the fact that I actually listed these things from the top of my head either indicates that you are either unaware of these things or flat out lying about it.

Ya know, just because it has elements from the games, doesn't mean it's like the games.

[Mega]

But why does it have to be like the games? :/ Personally, I like that there are continuities that go off in their own directions. Yes, the game universe could use expansion, but they could always just... try and write better stories for the games.

[Kuzu]

Story's always been a secondary thing with the games, and whenever they try to make it a primary concern they either botch it up, or the gameplay suffers, sooooo.....

[Aquaslash]

Adding supplementary material that's canon to the game verse is always going to be tricky. At the end of the day, you have to work around the fact that many people just aren't going to read it, or watch it, and you have to spend time in the games retreading what was already established elsewhere. That's why Sonic Channel only talked about physical attributes and character quirks. You can get by without knowing any of that stuff.

[Kuzu]

To be fair, you can make an adaption of the games, and not make it suck......it's just that that's never been done. I mean Persona 4: The Animation is a pretty decent anime despite basically covering the game, though it does admittedly skip a few things.

[azoo]

You don't mind a reboot after 19 years because you're not even reading the damn thing. I don't give a flying fuck if Savage Dragon reboots, but I'll be certain the readership'll be pissed.

How has the story aged, how is it different from what the creators had in mind? Don't fall into this Azukara, you know better, you're a Retro member, you've read the interviews. What the creators had in mind was that Sonic goes against Eggman in a colourful world. SatAM missed that (the colourful part), but the comics mostly haven't. It's all still there. And fuck, there's an active effort to tell the tale with a spin right now.

And seriously, you're trying to argument Archie is old and stale as a reason for a SEGA-reboot? Guess what would happen under SEGA. It's called the Sonic X comic, that was seriously static and stale because SEGA didn't let them do anything.

At this point, at this point, not based on a couple comics you may have read 7 years ago, what core concepts do the games have that the comics can't have? Sonic as a drifter? Fucking easy to do if the writer wills it. What is there in the games right now that's so precious and that Archie has ruined so irredeemably it can't be done? What?

Edited October 4, 2012 by Azukara

[Nepenthe]

Similarly to how I feel it's dumb to start inserting Archie canon elements in the games for the sake of making the more like Archie when they're not supposed to be, the comics don't need to be rebooted simply because they're different from the games. It's perfectly fine that they're their own thing, so rebooting with the intent to destroy the entire canon like that's a no-no in my book. If we need a SegaSonic comic that badly, I'd rather Sega commission one or something.

[azoo]

I apologize for that; I should reword what I was trying to say so I don't come off as an ass.

I really just want a good Segasonic-based comic rather than just replacing one for another. When I said I didn't mind if there was a reboot that was just me since I don't like the comics really, but I know others wouldn't want that because they do. I'd just be worried people would get confused with more than one mainstay Sonic comic running at once, especially since one with the 'Sonic the Hedgehog' title wouldn't even be the one related to the games.

[FourCartridge]

I only barely follow the comics but wasn't "more faithful adaptation" the point of Sonic Universe? Seemed like it to me...

[Nepenthe]

I apologize for that; I should reword what I was trying to say so I don't come off as an ass.

I really just want a good Segasonic-based comic rather than just replacing one for another. When I said I didn't mind if there was a reboot that was just me since I don't like the comics really, but I know others wouldn't want that because they do. I'd just be worried people would get confused with more than one mainstay Sonic comic running at once, especially since one with the 'Sonic the Hedgehog' title wouldn't even be the one related to the games.

Well, there was always those Sonic mangas and Fleetway going on at the same time, so I don't think it would be too confusing to the layman to understand. And if push came to shove, Sega could just muscle in and reclaim the Sonic The Hedgehog name for their comic and tell Archie to rename theirs differently or something.

And in case it wasn't clear, that post I made was just my general opinion on the whole matter; I didn't mean to aim it at you or anything. xP

I only barely follow the comics but wasn't "more faithful adaptation" the point of Sonic Universe? Seemed like it to me...

I thought the point of those was to merely follow the side characters.

[Sonictrainer]

Instead of having Archie reboot their universe, let's have another Sonic comic, book, or manga, by another group, to do game based stories.

In the end, we still might get something close to what Archie or Fleetway did with Sonic.

[Your Vest Friend]

I thought the point of those was to merely follow the side characters.

The point was to tell supplementary (which, yes most means with side characters) stories that weren't required for the main plot to be understood. In which case, it's failed it's objective since quite a few of the arcs are nigh on compulsory if you want to really understand what's going on.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Wally Gator

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Exactly, you can't just suddenly make something storydriven, when story wasn't even the focus in the first place, not without adding in elements foreign to the series, hence the Archie series.

That is a very weak reason on why something can't be storydriven. For one, the comics never even started adding anything foreign to the series, they were building off of the SatAM cartoon that was around during the last decade. That's not saying that they couldn't have done so without adding foreign elements as the years went by like they did, but for all we know they could have very well done so without it.

And furthermore, what the hell kind of evidence do you have to claim that you can't make something story driven because story wasn't even the focus? Last I checked, as soon as Sonic made his 3D hit with Sonic Adventure 1, the games got much more story driven themselves, and in addition to that they also added new and foreign elements into that. That is no excuse to criticize Archie for it when Sega is no different with it's official version of Sonic.

Ya know, just because it has elements from the games, doesn't mean it's like the games.

*facepalms*

Okay, Ragna, bro, just stop man. You are smarter than this, and you are better than this.

First of all, you know damn well that is not what you said ealier. You said and I quote "ArchieSonic has very little in common with SegaSonic, other than a few characters" not about how it was anything unike the games were as a whole. I gave you several things ArchieSonic had in common with SegaSonic while also telling you how it goes about a different path.

Secondly, why in the hell should it be exactly like the games, especially when the games are already the games themselves? You know full and well that it is a whole separate continuity and universe from the games, meaning it's going to tell it's own story while Sega does their own stories with the games. It's been that way since Issue 1 with the comics. There's very little point in telling the same story as the games when the games have already told the story they had. Sure, you could take what Dio said and argue that it's to tell the story better, but that doesn't change the fact that 1) it would be redundant and pointless, and 2) the games could attempt do a better job telling their own stories themselves.

Story's always been a secondary thing with the games, and whenever they try to make it a primary concern they either botch it up, or the gameplay suffers, sooooo.....

Then how about they, ya know, not botch the story or make the gameplay suffer while making the game's plot?

Just because something's secondary doesn't mean it should be lacking in quality compared to the primary.

Edited October 4, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Diogenes]

First of all, you know damn well that is not what you said ealier. You said and I quote "ArchieSonic has very little in common with SegaSonic, other than a few characters" not about how it was anything unike the games were as a whole. I gave you several things ArchieSonic had in common with SegaSonic while also telling you how it goes about a different path.

Well, what the comics take from the games is a pretty small drop in the ocean of all the stuff they invented. And what they have absorbed from the games is often used in a very different context from how they were originally, so it's not really even the same thing. I think it's fair to say they don't have much in common.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Well, what the comics take from the games is a pretty small drop in the ocean of all the stuff they invented. And what they have absorbed from the games is often used in a very different context from how they were originally, so it's not really even the same thing. I think it's fair to say they don't have much in common.

Except for the part that's being ignored about it being a different continuity and began as a extension of the SatAM cartoon years ago. Nevermind the fact that they have more in common than just a few characters (if not the various cartoons and anime that came before it), and how they go about things on a different path than the game universe does.

In summary, NO DUH it's not the same thing. It's never been the same thing since the very first issue, and even with all the material it adapts into the continuity I find it hilarious how anyone should expect it to be the same thing and advocating a reboot of it in order to do so.

Edited October 4, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Soniman]

I think that because the games are GAMES first and foremost, that whatever elements the comics take from them are going to be significantly changed one way or another.

For instance, the way rings are used in the games and the way they are/were used in the comics are diffrent because of this. You can't have rings in the comics function the same way they do in the games due to it not making any sense if they were used in that context. I dont think the comics should have a ring counter in every panel, and everytime Sonic is hit he losses rings or whatever, just for the sake of being accurate to the games.

Edited October 4, 2012 by Soniman

[Kuzu]

That is a very weak reason on why something can't be storydriven. For one, the comics never even started adding anything foreign to the series, they were building off of the SatAM cartoon that was around during the last decade. That's not saying that they couldn't have done so without adding foreign elements as the years went by like they did, but for all we know they could have very well done so without it.[

And furthermore, what the hell kind of evidence do you have to claim that you can't make something story driven because story wasn't even the focus? Last I checked, as soon as Sonic made his 3D hit with Sonic Adventure 1, the games got much more story driven themselves, and in addition to that they also added new and foreign elements into that. That is no excuse to criticize Archie for it when Sega is no different with it's official version of Sonic.

SATAM itself is a Canon Foreigner to the games, so by extension, anything based on it is also a foreign to the games.

Secondly, I'm not saying it can't be storydriven, I'm saying that because story was never their primary focus, they're not going to give it the quality that people expect them too, and might, in fact, turn out worse than the games, hell people accuse Sonic X of doing just that.

First of all, you know damn well that is not what you said ealier. You said and I quote "ArchieSonic has very little in common with SegaSonic, other than a few characters" not about how it was anything unike the games were as a whole. I gave you several things ArchieSonic had in common with SegaSonic while also telling you how it goes about a different path.

Like DIo said, they're implemented in a way different from the source material, which at that point, it stops being Sega!Sonic, and goes off into it's own thing. It's like comparing Ultimate Spider Man to the original series; yeah both have a lot in common considering the latter is based on the former, but at the end of the day, they're both different universes completely unrelated to each other, so in that sense, Archie Sonic is NOT Sega Sonic, Archie Sonic is Archie Sonic, no matter elements from the games it adds.

Secondly, why in the hell should it be exactly like the games, especially when the games are already the games themselves? You know full and well that it is a whole separate continuity and universe from the games, meaning it's going to tell it's own story while Sega does their own stories with the games. It's been that way since Issue 1 with the comics. There's very little point in telling the same story as the games when the games have already told the story they had. Sure, you could take what Dio said and argue that it's to tell the story better, but that doesn't change the fact that 1) it would be redundant and pointless, and 2) the games could attempt do a better job telling their own stories themselves.

Having an adaption of an existing series is not pointless, especially when it's going to an entirely different medium. You can do things in comics that you can't do in games, thereby expanding on said universe. Yeah, sure the games could do a better job of telling their stories, but like I said, the story in the games have always been secondary and always will be, an adaption comic can expand on the things that the games could never cover.

To give an example, the JRPG game Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4 and it's anime adaption; Persona 4: The Animation. In the original game, you control a silent protagonist who's personality is mostly blank that you the player fills in with different dialogue choices. However in the anime, you don't have that option, so the writers compensated by giving the protagonist an official name, and gave him a very distinct character, based on the fact that he was a silent protagonist in the game.

Then how about they, ya know, not botch the story or make the gameplay suffer while making the game's plot?

Considering this is Sonic Team, this is easier said than done.

Just because something's secondary doesn't mean it should be lacking in quality compared to the primary.

True, but the secondary is always going to get less attention than the primary.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

SATAM itself is a Canon Foreigner to the games, so by extension, anything based on it is also a foreign to the games.

That's not the bloody point. The point is that the comics are a whole different continuity and universe from the games, like SatAM, and therefore it's not going to be exactly like the games. It will use elements from the games in its stories, but that still doesn't it stop it from telling it's own stories whether they're different from the games or not.

And expecting the comics to be like the games is completely missing that point over it being a separate continuity.

Like DIo said, they're implemented in a way different from the source material, which at that point, it stops being Sega!Sonic, and goes off into it's own thing. It's like comparing Ultimate Spider Man to the original series; yeah both have a lot in common considering the latter is based on the former, but at the end of the day, they're both different universes completely unrelated to each other, so in that sense, Archie Sonic is NOT Sega Sonic, Archie Sonic is Archie Sonic, no matter elements from the games it adds.

And like I said, that's the whole point. That's why it's called Archie!Sonic, and not Sega!Sonic.

Having an adaption of an existing series is not pointless, especially when it's going to an entirely different medium. You can do things in comics that you can't do in games, thereby expanding on said universe. Yeah, sure the games could do a better job of telling their stories, but like I said, the story in the games have always been secondary and always will be, an adaption comic can expand on the things that the games could never cover.

Telling the same stories as the games is pointless because it's redundant. Adaptations are a whole different story because it does it with a whole different spin (like the comics *hint hint*), and mind you Archie!Sonic has done just that when it comes to it's stories. The comics have done adaptations of:

• Sonic the Hedgehog Spinball (#6)
  
• Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Combined with Sonic & Knuckles for the Sonic-Quest mini-series.)(#228-229)
  
• Sonic the Hedgehog 3 (#13)
  
• Sonic & Knuckles (Sonic & Knuckles Special) (also combined with Sonic 2 for the Sonic-Quest mini-series)
  
• Sonic CD (#25)
  
• SegaSonic the Hedgehog (Knuckles #26-28) (arcade game)
  
• Sonic Triple Trouble (Sonic Triple Trouble Special)
  
• Knuckles' Chaotix (Knuckles' Chaotix Special)
  
• Sonic 3D Blast (Sonic Blast Special)
  
• Sonic Adventure (Super Special #13, and issues 79-84, originally planned to be 78-83, and Knuckles issues 33-34 before it was cancelled after issue 32)
  
• Sonic Shuffle (#92)
  
• Sonic Adventure 2 (#98, #124 & Sonic Universe #2)
  
• Sonic Rush (#160 & #161)
  
• Sonic Riders (#163 & #164, Sonic Universe #33-35)
  
• Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity (Sonic Universe #36)
  
• Shadow The Hedgehog (#157, #171) (Shadow's origins)
  
• Sonic Rush Adventure (#180, Sonic Universe #1)
  
• Sonic and the Secret Rings (free comic made for the game)*
  
• Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood (#191)*
  
• Sonic Unleashed (#193)*
  
• Sonic and the Black Knight (#197)*
  
• Tails Adventure (Sonic Universe #17-20)
  
• Sonic Colors (#219)*
  
• Sonic the Hedgehog (1991) (#226-227)
  
• Sonic Generations (#230)*
  
• Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 2 (Sonic Super Special Magazine #3)*
  
• Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed (Sonic Universe #45)
  

Now granted, I took that straight from Wikipedia and some of these are their own self-contained stories, but it goes to show that even in it's own universe with different plots and materials and being it's own thing, it's still has a lot of elements in common with the games

And furthermore, the games can do FAR more than what the comics offer on their own, whether the plot is secondary or not. There's no point in saying that you can do things in the comics that you can't in the games, because it's completely the other way around.

In fact, challenge me: name me something that you can do in the comics that you absolutely cannot do in the games.

Considering this is Sonic Team, this is easier said than done.

Well it's much harder to want a reboot out of Archie!Sonic, especially when it's gone almost 20 years of being it's own thing and still going strong.

True, but the secondary is always going to get less attention than the primary.

That doesn't mean it will lack quality. Making a game is different from making a comic because you putting the audience much more deeply into the world since they're controlling a character; comics being primarily stories don't exactly immerse you in the same way as the games but you can still enjoy watching how the character take part in the world.

It's the difference between watching someone play basketball and playing basketball yourself.

Edited October 5, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[azoo]

I think that because the games are GAMES first and foremost, that whatever elements the comics take from them are going to be significantly changed one way or another.

For instance, the way rings are used in the games and the way they are/were used in the comics are diffrent because of this. You can't have rings in the comics function the same way they do in the games due to it not making any sense if they were used in that context. I dont think the comics should have a ring counter in every panel, and everytime Sonic is hit he losses rings or whatever, just for the sake of being accurate to the games.

You don't have to make it a constant reminder, but it can definitely be there. They can still state that its the offset of chaos energy that seeps out of the ground of the world (and can work as a life force), and is somehow used as a form of world currency as well. You don't have to follow a character from start to finish with a counter for them to say they need to collect 100 or so rings to get the sum they need to attain something. =p

In fact, that's a fun little thought process.. crime is usually low in Sonic's world because rings are both a form of currency and security and thus it makes matters regarding robbing someone as much more difficult since all currency goes to a specific hammerspace in their subconscious or something crazy like that.. heheh, this is a fun idea.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Azukara

[Dejablue]

Lol what the heck you guys don't freaking get the point of "adaptation" Archie could make a new line of Sonic comics devoted to being more like the games and they'd still be different in a lot of ways. Why? Because unless you just really really want to read some frame by frame synopsis of the past games, they'd need to come up with new ideas, new content, new foes, new adventures that don't happen in the games. In the long run it would end up being very not like the games and then you would all be mad again.

Also Sega has this...thing with how they want Sonic to be treated. A lot of fans seem to feel the same way. It irritates me that they think Sonic isn't allowed to be sad or angry. It's bizarre.

In the end, without that new content I spoke about earlier that you'd all hiss and spit at. You are getting the spiritual successor of Sonic X. Massive Retread.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Dejablue