Do you think the fanbase overrates the latest games? (As in Colours and Generations)

[Chaos Warp]

I think Colors and Generations are simply good, not great. They need to bring back the original gameplay, that is the only way to make a good Sonic again. Other methods do not work.

In 2d or 3d?

[Henry Wong]

2D, and if they can somehow translate the gameplay to 3D then that too. But there are some mechanics from Sonic 1 that may not work in 3D. An example handling half-pipe speed buildup, how does the camera behave? A switch around as in Tony Hawk? Also, full movement in loops? It is difficult but maybe it can be done.

[Chaos Warp]

2D, and if they can somehow translate the gameplay to 3D then that too. But there are some mechanics from Sonic 1 that may not work in 3D. An example handling half-pipe speed buildup, how does the camera behave? A switch around as in Tony Hawk? Also, full movement in loops? It is difficult but maybe it can be done.

So..........you believe if they can't translate it into 3d, it should purely stick to 2d? That's what I'm gathering from this.

[Soniman]

Well received is something I can see. Successful isn't.

EDIT: Also, thank you, sir.

How exactly are those two things mutualy exclusive from one another?

[Henry Wong]

If they cannot translate it that doesn't mean no 3D, just continue the Generations formula. But we at least need 2D Sonic to return to how it was, fluid intuitive movement. Today no Sonic game is even really a Sonic game.

[Xenos]

....I don't even know anymore.

On one side we have people saying they don't understand why the modern games are so widely praised and see them as decent/lackluster/mediocre/okay/hqwbjw and the like, and then we have people saying the games are great and find them underrated and don't understand why people seem to bash them so hard. Hell, this very topic could be an example of that...

Personally, I find them severely underrated lately.

It's like every new Modern game that comes out now is said to be a really great game, and then not a few Months later people don't even know why it was considered that great. This cycle gives me a headache and I wonder if it'll happen to the next new game.

There is also the thought that the series absolutely needs to bring back Classic elements, and I don't really believe that entirely, I mean it's a Franchise, I think it's allowed to experiment with other things.

[Mr. Taxi]

How exactly are those two things mutualy exclusive from one another?

They aren't mutually exclusive. But they don't come together, either. Okami was well-received, but wasn't successful. Need for Speed: Undercover was successful, but not well-received.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Palas

[Nepenthe]

....I don't even know anymore.

On one side we have people saying they don't understand why the modern games are so widely praised and see them as decent/lackluster/mediocre/okay/hqwbjw and the like, and then we have people saying the games are great and find them underrated and don't understand why people seem to bash them so hard. Hell, this very topic could be an example of that...

Personally, I find them severely underrated lately.

It's like every new Modern game that comes out now is said to be a really great game, and then not a few Months later people don't even know why it was considered that great. This cycle gives me a headache and I wonder if it'll happen to the next new game.

A game's release cycle naturally brings hype because it's all shiny and new and good-looking and full of potential. It's a feeling that can sometimes carry through the entire play experience. But once the game isn't all that pristine anymore and you're not experiencing sensory overload from all of the latest impressions, new trailers, and hacked assets, it's easier to be more objective about the game as a whole and perhaps your impressions after the fact will be a little less favorable.

Granted, being objective doesn't mean being outright fucking cynical. There is definitely something to say for people's impressions going from "best thing ever" to "meh/shit" in just a few months' time, and this armchair analyst thinks it's more to do with the nasty habit of people on the Internet naturally kowtowing to popular or well/aggressively-stated opinions out of fear of mob retaliation, coupled with your usual Internet hyperbole.

[Soniman]

They aren't mutually exclusive. But they don't come together, either. Okami was well-received, but wasn't succesful. Need for Speed: Undercover was succesful, but not well-received.

So you're saying the new games....aren't selling well?

[Tornado]

They aren't mutually exclusive. But they don't come together, either. Okami was well-received, but wasn't succesful. Need for Speed: Undercover was succesful, but not well-received.

What about pretty much every Zelda game ever?

[Mr. Taxi]

So you're saying the new games....aren't selling well?

Yes. This and they didn't gather much attention. Gens couldn't beat Origins in any award, for instance. In comparison, Sonic and the Secret Rings stood out a lot more at the time.

What about pretty much every Zelda game ever?

Hm? It depends. Not all games have equal reception and success. Most are well-received, yes, but then we have Phantom Hourglass, which was pretty much neglected.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Palas

[Tornado]

it's easier to be more objective about the game as a whole and perhaps your impressions after the fact will be a little less favorable.

Majority of the time I don't think the reasons for the change in sentiment are that well thought out.

Yes. This and they didn't gather much attention. Gens couldn't beat Origins in any award, for instance. In comparison, Sonic and the Secret Rings stood out a lot more at the time.

Secret Rings stood out so much at the time because the big thing that they were hyping like mad turned out to be awful.

The same thing happened with Colors and Sonic 4.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Tornado

[Mr. Taxi]

Change in the sentiment does not matter much individually. Liking it less today or not, you already bought the game and was a part of the mass that was hyped up. That's enough for Sonic Team/SEGA.

[Soniman]

Not to mention Secret Rings was a early Wii motion control game, which I'm sure turned more than a few heads at the time.

[Mr. Taxi]

Well, being early to explore a console's unique features is a smart marketing strategy. Quality is not the only thing to consider. No wonder Just Dance sold so much. And, by the way, Sonic and the Secret Rings was considered one of the most beautiful Wii games at the time. Sure, it has aged poorly, but it accomplished well.

EDIT: Well, let me explain it better. Sonic Generations may have been a great game, solid, fun, lots of replay value, whatever. But it has clear and major references to a game from the same generation that was released in another console. You can't expect most players to approach it, since only those who follow closely will know what it's on about.

That's why Sonic Generations is everything but Sonic's "comeback".

Edited October 11, 2012 by Palas

[Abominal SnowTaz]

Not to mention Secret Rings was a early Wii motion control game, which I'm sure turned more than a few heads at the time.

Unfortunately, they overused that little feature thus making secret rings fall flat.

[Frogging101]

EDIT: Well, let me explain it better. Sonic Generations may have been a great game, solid, fun, lots of replay value, whatever. But it has clear and major references to a game from the same generation that was released in another console. You can't expect most players to approach it, since only those who follow closely will know what it's on about.

That's why Sonic Generations is everything but Sonic's "comeback".

Wrong. Sonic Generations was the first Sonic game I ever played and I loved it. And it makes me want more Sonic games, and SEGA has gained a new customer (as long as they keep releasing on Steam).

[Mr. Taxi]

Wrong. Sonic Generations was the first Sonic game I ever played and I loved it. And it makes me want more Sonic games, and SEGA has gained a new customer (as long as they keep releasing on Steam).

What can I say? Just because you can't expect, does not mean it will not happen. But the thing is, the game wasn't made having players like you in mind, I can only suppose. They've made the game accessible, obviously, but it doesn't make me wonder that the game didn't sell all too well.

[Soniman]

I doubt one customer would be the deciding factor in a game being sucsessful or not.

[Frogging101]

I doubt one customer would be the deciding factor in a game being sucsessful or not.

What can I say? Just because you can't expect, does not mean it will not happen. But the thing is, the game wasn't made having players like you in mind, I can only suppose. They've made the game accessible, obviously, but it doesn't make me wonder that the game didn't sell all too well.

I was responding to what he said about it not being approachable unless you follow Sonic closely.

[Mr. Taxi]

I can only bet it was much harder for you to follow what was going on than for whoever was following the prerelease frenzy. That doesn't make the experience any worse for you. I'm just saying the game didn't even try to have a universal appeal.

EDIT: Grammar still has the upper hand, it seems. Thanks, Abominal Taz.

Edited October 11, 2012 by Palas

[Abominal SnowTaz]

I can only bet it was much harder for you to follow what was going on than for whoever was following the prerelease frenzy. That doesn't make the experience any worse for you. I'm just saying the game didn't even try to have an universal appeal.

A* Sorry. I just wanted to fix that....

Edited October 11, 2012 by Abominal Taz

[Mr. Taxi]

Woah, sorry. I hate to commit grammar mistakes. It seems English still plays tricks on me.

[Abominal SnowTaz]

Woah, sorry. I hate to commit grammar mistakes. It seems English still plays tricks on me.

Ahh no problem dude. It was just my inner grammar nazi. Anyways, please continue. I'm starting to get some interesting insight.

[Mr. Taxi]

I have a whole article on a matter somewhat related to this, but it's not wise to post it, I suppose. Long story short, I think they are not overrated nor underrated. They just had their purpose and their lifespan. If fans have expectations above Sonic Team's possibilities, it's because they know where Sonic should be.