Continuity concerning Sonic games

[Johnny2071]

Even though I have swore off forum discussions, this one I cannot resist. To put it simply, this concerns the continuity of the early Sonic games. Here is a correct order of the games according to plot and theories of why for each one.

Legend:

* = Event can be switched with other same number * event next to it.

-Sonic 1: Sonic's first appearance. No brainer.

-*(1)Sonic CD: Someone made this very clear to me. See this thread:

-*(1)SegaSonic Arcade: First meets Mighty and Ray. Still no sign of Tails

-Sonic 2 (Game Gear): Sonic first rescues Tails.

Note: Just because Game Gear Games suck in graphics, gameplay and music, doesn't mean they're all around worthless.

-Sonic 2 (Genesis): Tails is made an active character.

-Sonic 3: Beginning of Knuckles saga and expansion of Death Egg.

-Sonic & Knuckles: Direct continuation (they lock on)

-Sonic 4 Episode 1: Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles go their separate ways. Based on the Genesis era.

-Sonic Labyrinth: Sonic is still solo. In the 1995 era.

-Tails Adventure: Tails does his solo act. Same 1995 era.

-Sonic 4 Episode 2: Sonic and Tails reunite.

-Knuckles Chaotix: Knuckles and who would be later known as Team Chaotix (and Mighty). Sonic and Tails pick up Knuckles after he defeats Metal Sonic Kai.

-Sonic 3D Blast: Tails and Knuckles are around as Sonic collects rings for emeralds.

The CGI Days:

Now these are hard to figure out. Best go by release dates. They could go in almost ANY order in this sub-section.

-*(2)Sonic X-treme

-*(2)Sonic Championship

-*(2)Sonic Jam (Sonic World)

-*(2)Sonic R

Back to the main story:

-Sonic Advance: All four characters, plus Eggman are up to date in design.

-Sonic Advance 2: Cream makes her first appearance. Sonic X helps tie together the rest.

-Sonic Adventure/DX: Where the real continuity begins. Cream makes a cameo at Station Square in the main plot.

-Sonic Shuffle: Can take place between Adventure and Adventure 2.

-Sonic Adventure 2: References from the first Adventure game. No real point in explaining this.

-That just leaves, Sonic Hereos, Shadow the Hedgehog, and Sonic 2006 (No, we are not arguing about that one with the Sonic Rush series or anything else). Also, storybook games happen in Sonic's free time.

Any other game past these that cannot fit into the past is just Sega trying to make more money, or does not need further clarity due to existing plot at hand.

Loose Ends:

-I'm still trying to figure out where Triple Trouble fits into.

-Sonic Battle comes before Sonic Advance 3, but confused the continuity by having the existence of Emerald Town (and Central City too close together), especially when the characters are originally from places like South Island, Westside Island, Little Planet, Angel Island, Carnival Island, THE HUMAN WORLD, etc.

-Tails' Skypatrol takes place whenever before the fox ever crossed paths with Sonic.

-Sonic Blast is an alternate Sonic & Knuckles.

-Racing games are a bit iffy, since they have to major character debuts and are just for fun. Sonic R is made even more complicated in contuinuity, due to the appearance of Metal Knuckles.

-Because Cream is constantly accompanied by Cheese, its unknown how Sonic and his friends were first introduced to Chao.

-Sonic Spinball is loosely based on Aosth and SATAM, while DRMBM is based directly on Aosth. In fact, any game not made directly by Sonic Team (Japan) cannot fit into the continuity (sorry, Shade the Echidna)

I put a LOT of thought into this, so no peanut gallery remarks.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Johnny2071

[...]

*Someone fix the misspelling of "concerning", please.*

Even though I have swore off forum discussions, this one I cannot resist. To put it simply, this concerns the continuity of the early Sonic games. Here is a correct order of the games according to plot and theories of why for each one.

Legend:

* = Event can be switched with other same number * event next to it.

-Sonic 1: Sonic's first appearance. No brainer.

-*(1)Sonic CD: Someone made this very clear to me. See this thread:

-*(1)SegaSonic Arcade: First meets Mighty and Ray. Still no sign of Tails

-Sonic 2 (Game Gear): Sonic first rescues Tails.

Note: Just because Game Gear Games suck in graphics, gameplay and music, doesn't mean they're all around worthless.

-Sonic 2 (Genesis): Tails is made an active character.

-Sonic 3: Beginning of Knuckles saga and expansion of Death Egg.

-Sonic & Knuckles: Direct continuation (they lock on)

-Sonic 4 Episode 1: Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles go their separate ways. Based on the Genesis era.

-Sonic Labyrinth: Sonic is still solo. In the 1995 era.

-Tails Adventure: Tails does his solo act. Same 1995 era.

-Sonic 4 Episode 2: Sonic and Tails reunite.

-Knuckles Chaotix: Knuckles and who would be later known as Team Chaotix (and Mighty). Sonic and Tails pick up Knuckles after he defeats Metal Sonic Kai.

-Sonic 3D Blast: Tails and Knuckles are around as Sonic collects rings for emeralds.

The CGI Days:

Now these are hard to figure out. Best go by release dates. They could go in almost ANY order in this sub-section.

-*(2)Sonic X-treme

-*(2)Sonic Championship

-*(2)Sonic Jam (Sonic World)

-*(2)Sonic R

Back to the main story:

-Sonic Advance: All four characters, plus Eggman are up to date in design.

-Sonic Advance 2: Cream makes her first appearance. Sonic X helps tie together the rest.

-Sonic Adventure/DX: Where the real continuity begins. Cream makes a cameo at Station Square in the main plot.

-Sonic Shuffle: Can take place between Adventure and Adventure 2.

-Sonic Adventure 2: References from the first Adventure game. No real point in explaining this.

-That just leaves, Sonic Hereos, Shadow the Hedgehog, and Sonic 2006 (No, we are not arguing about that one with the Sonic Rush series or anything else). Also, storybook games happen in Sonic's free time.

Any other game past these that cannot fit into the past is just Sega trying to make more money, or does not need further clarity due to existing plot at hand.

Loose Ends:

-I'm still trying to figure out where Triple Trouble fits into.

-Sonic Battle comes before Sonic Advance 3, but confused the continuity by having the existence of Emerald Town (and Central City too close together), especially when the characters are originally from places like South Island, Westside Island, Little Planet, Angel Island, Carnival Island, THE HUMAN WORLD, etc.

-Tails' Skypatrol takes place whenever before the fox ever crossed paths with Sonic.

-Sonic Blast is an alternate Sonic & Knuckles.

-Racing games are a bit iffy, since they have to major character debuts and are just for fun. Sonic R is made even more complicated in contuinuity, due to the appearance of Metal Knuckles.

-Because Cream is constantly accompanied by Cheese, its unknown how Sonic and his friends were first introduced to Chao.

-Sonic Spinball is loosely based on Aosth and SATAM, while DRMBM is based directly on Aosth. In fact, any game not made directly by Sonic Team (Japan) cannot fit into the continuity (sorry, Shade the Echidna)

I put a LOT of thought into this, so no peanut gallery remarks.

>Sonic X

>canon

Nooooope.

[WarioBone]

I'm confused as to what you're asking here.

Also, Ratchet, your sig is giving me a seizuwethwwetttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt

Edited October 19, 2012 by Sexy n' Smooth Wario

[Endy]

>Trying to find continuity in Sonic

lol

[Johnny2071]

>Sonic X

>canon

Nooooope.

No one said Sonic X was canon, or even a game.

[...]

I'm confused as to what you're asking here.

Also, Ratchet, your sig is giving me a seizuwethwwetttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt

Wario, seizures are for the good of the soul.

but seriously if it gave you a seziure, highly apologize

[novelty]

Finding a continuity in the Sonic saga is like finding a continuity in the Legend of Zelda saga.

There is no one straight line and people still argue about it to this day...

[WarioBone]

Finding a continuity in the Sonic saga is like finding a continuity in the Legend of Zelda saga.

There is no one straight line and people still argue about it to this day...

Completely ignoring the timeline in Hyrule Historia, of course.

[Sonictrainer]

-Because Cream is constantly accompanied by Cheese, its unknown how Sonic and his friends were first introduced to Chao.

Chaos was a Chao.

[Diogenes]

-*(1)SegaSonic Arcade: First meets Mighty and Ray.

These characters don't exist.

-Sonic 2 (Game Gear): Sonic first rescues Tails.

The Japanese manual for the Genesis Sonic 2 has Sonic and Tails' first meeting and then pretty much jumps into action. Doesn't make much sense for this to be here.

-Sonic Labyrinth: Sonic is still solo. In the 1995 era.

Why include this? It was a silly little game with no more than an excuse of a plot.

-Tails Adventure: Tails does his solo act. Same 1995 era.

The Japanese manual puts this as being before he met Sonic. So if it's canon at all (which it probably isn't), it doesn't belong here.

-Knuckles Chaotix: Knuckles and who would be later known as Team Chaotix (and Mighty). Sonic and Tails pick up Knuckles after he defeats Metal Sonic Kai.

The Chaotix were introduced as new characters in Heroes, Knuckles Chaotix most likely never happened.

The CGI Days:

Now these are hard to figure out.

Not if you assume they don't matter, because they pretty much don't.

-Sonic Advance: All four characters, plus Eggman are up to date in design.

-Sonic Advance 2: Cream makes her first appearance. Sonic X helps tie together the rest.

-Sonic Adventure/DX: Where the real continuity begins. Cream makes a cameo at Station Square in the main plot.

I'm more inclined to put the Advances where they fall by release date. Cream was just a cameo in SADX, so I don't think her appearance has any bearing on things.

-Sonic Battle comes before Sonic Advance 3, but confused the continuity by having the existence of Emerald Town (and Central City too close together), especially when the characters are originally from places like South Island, Westside Island, Little Planet, Angel Island, Carnival Island, THE HUMAN WORLD, etc.

Don't get caught up on locations. They just made up some places and squashed them together for the sake of the game, like they always do. Battle would have to come after ShtH, since Shadow has his memory back in it.

-Racing games are a bit iffy, since they have to major character debuts and are just for fun. Sonic R is made even more complicated in contuinuity, due to the appearance of Metal Knuckles.

The Riders games are the only ones that come even close to mattering. There's no real evidence for their exact position, but there's no strict need to lock them down either, since they're entirely self-contained. Just throw 'em in where they were released.

[Johnny2071]

I guess nothing matters, not even Sonic's speed. The smart remarks and the shameless cynicism just.... (*shoots the sky with a gun*) well that's the nicest way I can put it. Apparently, nothing has changes in forums since 2009.

And just for the record: I tried.

Goodbye.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Johnny2071

[Diogenes]

Well what the hell were you expecting to happen?

[Mikkiz]

Well what the hell were you expecting to happen?

I'll answer for him. He wasn't expecting shitty ass remarks, he was expecting some serious, answering, which it looks like he didn't get. Derp. Also, I find it funny that almost everyone here on these forums seem to think that they are right about something and tend to correct you about the little things that don't even matter.

[Andrew Albacia]

Personally, I stopped thinking about putting a timeline to anything after the Mega Drive games. There are retcons everywhere and unless you want to kill yourself quicker, I doubt it's worth the effort to try. That and I think I'd rather shoot myself in the foot than find a place for the likes of Sonic Labyrinth anywhere... except mayhaps an incinerator.

Seriously though, I'd stick to ordering the core games only unless you want people to get upset when you start crapping on their vision. Another safe bet, going on how big a boner Sega have for it would be to assume Heroes presents the only canon in the series and offer your first, second and third born to its continuation.

Unless you... you know, want to.

But hell, so long as Sonic 2 continues into Sonic 3 and Knuckles, I'm happy enough with that...

[Abominal SnowTaz]

Well that was just flat out petty. I was about to reply with something well thought out as this was an interesting topic.

I'll answer for him. He wasn't expecting shitty ass remarks, he was expecting some serious, answering, which it looks like he didn't get. Derp. Also, I find it funny that almost everyone here on these forums seem to think that they are right about something and tend to correct you about the little things that don't even matter.

You didn't take to heart a word I said to you, did you?

[Mikkiz]

Well that was just flat out petty. I was about to reply with something well thought out as this was an interesting topic.

You didn't take to heart a word I said to you, did you?

Sure I did. I was just stating what I thought Johnny would say. I don't really know if he thinks like that but that's how I feel about it.

[SilJeff]

I personally never include spinoffs in what I consider to be the continuity of any series. Just the major games (the console Sonic games like S1, SCD, S2, S3&K, SA1, SA2, Heroes, 06 [cringes], Unleashed, Colors, and Generations) and what I like to call the minor games (such as the platformers like S1, S2, Triple Trouble, Chaos, Blast, Advance 1, 2, and 3, Rush, and Rush Adventure and even Shadow the Hedgehog)

I don't count Sonic 4 in the main canon because so much of it is just rehash from Sonic 1 and 2.

Also, I have never actually tried to make a timeline encompassing the minor and major Sonic games. I just make a list of what I consider to be the canon.

[-Mark-]

>Sonic X

>canon

Nooooope.

The funny thing is that, if it weren't for a few inconsistencies regarding the game adaptations and Emerl, Sonic X could very nearly have been perfectly canon to the games.

Although I guess the games are all supposed to be set on Earth (or at least, a fantastical, romanticised version of it), so you could argue that the very idea of Sonic being from another world in X rules that out completely anyway, although it at least goes some way to explaining the drastic variances in fantasy versus realism in some games (the only problem then being that it pretty much alternates every other game these days).

Personally I still see Sonic X as something of a companion piece to the games; it's certainly the one piece of non-game media that most closely matches the games in terms of style, tone and characterisation. Hell, the ending to Sonic Advance 3 doesn't even make a huge amount of sense without watching Sonic X, unless you just assume "Oh, Cream just happened to befriend Gemerl because she's a nice kid". Either way, watching X certainly adds a lot more to the ending than taking it at stand-alone face value.

Regarding the continuity, I'm really not trying to sound like an ass here, but to be honest I've tried to stop caring, since Sega themselves have had very little concern for it since Sonic 06. The only games in the series that have ever had any real sense of continuity are Sonic 2-3&K and Adventure-06, the latter of which is mostly held together by a couple of weak references and (mostly) Shadow).

I think for games outside of big adventures and RPGs, and certainly in platformers, story will always sadly come second. Hell, even the Zelda series director admitted that the story is always secondary to gameplay whilst they're developing it. They do what they want with the game, and work a story into that. As such, you get these inconsistencies and problems. The developers don't care, and that's not to say we shouldn't, but at the same time their lack of caring basically means it's one giant headache to try and piece anything together any more and probably isn't worth tripping over yourself for.

[azoo]

The Sonic series is a complete mess regarding timeline, but since its fun to do, this is how I'd reconstruct it. Warning, this is another massive wall of text.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Pre-game series:

- ???? years before current timeframe : Cray-cray world creation gobbledegook, related to the gods/goddesses placing the Chaos Emeralds and Master Emerald on the planet (rings related to this in some form or fashion; for more info read the JP classic game instruction manuals), somehow the Gaia temples get involved (I'm guessing we can assume Angel Island features multiple 'Gaia Temple' outlets for the Master Emerald?), this includes all this crazy stuff about Dark and Light Gaia, blah blah blah.

- 4000 years before current timeframe : The Chaos incident (SA1's backstory), which favorably could contain bits and pieces of the story regarding the Nocturnus and the Gizoids if it weren't for the fact that Chronicles sucked majorly in handling anything outside of these things (would be cool if we could still keep it regardless)

- 50-60 years before current timeframe : Gerald Robotnik makes ARK, finds Emerl, the 'Project: Shadow' project/incident; also around this time most likely Dr. Eggman was born??

- Somewhere around 10-12 (???) years before current timeframe : Sonic is born and spends his earliest days adventuring and whatnot on Christmas Island and getting his Tornado biplane; this of course is never went into detail about and actually doesn't need elaboration

- Right before the current timeframe : Sonic and Eggman's first encounter (mentioned briefly in the S1 JP manual). I have my fanons on how it goes along, of course tying in other things in the series, but it has obviously never been elaborated on; probably for the best. Sonic also makes his way towards South Island.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Now that all that crazy stuff is out of the way..

Game series:

- Sonic the Hedgehog (1991)

- Sonic the Hedgehog CD

These first two adventures seemed to happen pretty close together and it's a safe bet to assume that Never Lake is a location within South Island. After Sonic had spent a bit of spread out time between those two adventures (giving Sonic enough time inbetween S1 and SCD to meet/tolerate Amy), he would appear to have enough of the island for the time being, pack his Tornado and begin heading towards the kinda-nearby Westside Island, starting..

- Sonic the Hedgehog 2

- Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles

The Death Egg saga, where Sonic first meets his soon-to-be best buddy Tails, his once-nemesis-now-buddyrival Knuckles, learns the power of becoming Super Sonic, and we figure out some crazy stuff related to the newly introduced Master Emerald and Angel Island (which is, once again, expanded upon in the classic games' JP manuals and later further elaborated in SA1).

After Sonic dominates the Death Egg AND the Death Egg Robo MkII (or whatever you'd call it), brings the Master Emerdood back to safety and whatever whatever whatever, Dr. Eggman has officially run out of ideas, and jolts off somewhere.

A year or so passes. The world has been pretty peaceful. Sonic has distanced himself from everybody (while going through some minor puberty), Tails sets up a workshop out in the woods, Knuckles decided to get some sunshine by bringing the M.E. out to it's old altar, and Amy has moved to the big city in hopes of finding Sonic. All the while, Eggman's new plans unfurl, leading to..

- Sonic Adventure

We are introduced to that whole massive can of beans and are formally introduced to the Chaos Incident. After the general events of the game happen, once again, all characters go out their separate ways. Kind of. Also ignoring that they let an entire city go flooded and it's possible many people died. But whatevs, they saved the majority at least. Either way, several months later..

- Sonic Adventure 2

..happens. Here the entire story of the ARK and the Project Shadow stuff is explained and then acted upon. From here on afterwards, things stop being so segmented again, since Eggman seems to have backup plans coming out of the wazoo.

- Sonic Advance

- Sonic Advance 2

- Sonic Heroes

These games all happen around the same time with little between them. Heroes specifically happens after Sadv2 for the fact that Cream makes her first appearance in Sadv2 as well as there needing be a good bit more extra time between Shadow's apparent death in SA2 and his abrupt and not fully explained return in Heroes.

Speaking of which, meanwhile after Shadow's had some time to put together his past (and not with the Shadow game what Shadow game that's not a thing that exists sssshhhh), we get

- Sonic Battle

- Sonic Advance 3

Which features a calm and collected Shadow, as well as an overarching plot revolved around the Gizoids known as Emerl and G-Mel, and expanding off of that. From here, there's not really much in the way of connectivity so we can just put together

- Sonic Rush

- Sonic Rivals

- Sonic Rivals 2

- Sonic Rush Adventure

which goes into Eggman Nega and whatnot, which is why it's set up the way it is. Of course a lot of these aforementioned games would, like the previously mentioned titles in the continuity, have pauses and etc between them. How else would Eggman have time to conjure up plans and every other character kind of do what they want? It's just more brief of pauses in some of these stacked side-by-side.

Either way, after SRA, not much goes on besides being sucked into a book (SatSR), mostly because Eggman has spent time on a bigger project in store which was

- Sonic Unleashed

Which goes into the whole 'Light Gaia / Dark Gaia' thing. Followed up maybe another month or three down the road by

- Sonic Colors

Which might have featured another book possession (SatBK) between then and there, but this pretty much catches us up to right now.

But where's Generations or the Sonic 4 games, you may ask? Well, they kind of fit into a "what if" kind of timeline where that whole massive deal with the time shenanigans just so happens to occur, and classic Eggman (which alongside classic Sonic and Tails was pulled from after S3K) is led to anger with his current plans, thus creating an alternate timeline where he decides to just be out there for destroying Sonic, as well as megamixing his previous ideas, thus bringing us to an alternate timeline where Sonic the Hedgehog 4 happens.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

But anyways, thats my massive wall of text about the timeline which is rather self-explanitory without my extra comments, but hey, I was bored and felt like it'd be fun to write out so I took the piss with it. Hope it was fun to read and think about, at least.

Edited October 19, 2012 by Azukara

[iDEATH]

I hate how people just take games out of the canon because they don't like them. I've no problem with a canon of just the core games but maybe there should be two, one canon with just the main series and another that contains everything but the games that are definitly not canon (mean bean/spinball/chronicles)

[novelty]

Completely ignoring the timeline in Hyrule Historia, of course.

Not even, because that timeline is split into three factions that some fans do not agree.

One of my friends believe that the actual guy behind all of the story is the Happy Mask Salesman.

[WarioBone]

Not even, because that timeline is split into three factions that some fans do not agree.

Fans can disagree all they want.

I can disagree that Shadow was almost more popular than Sonic at one point, that doesn't make it any less true.

[Crash]

I don't think Chronicles can ever be included. It threw a load of characters into the mix for no reason at all.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I don't think Chronicles can ever be included. It threw a load of characters into the mix for no reason at all.

What in the fucking blue hell does having a load of characters have to do with a game not being included in the continuity? By that logic, Sonic Heroes can't ever be included, and we all know that game is undoubtedly canon. And don't get me started on Sonic 06. Say what you will about it writing its plot out of existence at the end, but it's still canon.

Edited October 19, 2012 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[WarioBone]

What in the fucking blue hell does having a load of characters have to do with a game not being included in the continuity? By that logic, Sonic Heroes can't ever be included, and we all know that game is undoubtedly canon. And don't get me started on Sonic 06. Say what you will about it writing its plot out of existence at the end, but it's still canon.

It's canon that it's not canon. :V