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Do you think people are too hard on Sonic 4 Episode 2?


AsYouTrulyImaginedIt
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AsYouTrulyImaginedIt

We all know Sonic 4 Episode 1 had it's problems, whether you were comparing it to the classics or not. No platformer should have zero air momentum. However, we know for sure that Episode 2 was vastly improved, Sonic having air momentum and full 3D graphics, etc. But why are people still so hard on Episode 2? It's no Sonic 3&K, but it's still a darn fun game. I think a lot of people on forums whine too much and people become sheep, hating a game because others do instead of thinking for themselves. I play Sonic 4 Episode 2 regularly, improving my times and finding new exploits just like I did back in the day with Sonic 1, 2 and 3. It may not be exactly how we remember it, but for me it IS Sonic 4 as I truly imagined it. A fun 2D platformer starring Sonic where physics have an effect on your movement. So what do you guys think? I say bring on Episode 3.

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Detective Shadzter

A fun 2D platformer starring Sonic where physics have an effect on your movement.

Ah, yes, but can you show me a part of the game where those physics come in use?

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No, it really is a mediocre game. It's certainly better than Episode I, but let's not kid ourselves, that doesn't say much in its favor.

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AsYouTrulyImaginedIt

Ah, yes, but can you show me a part of the game where those physics come in use?

Rev up a Spin Dash and Jump to reach a significant distance. Time air dashes just as you fall of the edge of a platform to multiply your speed significantly. Spin Dash then air dash for an ultimate speed boost. Not to mention even though the rolling friction still isn't 100%, the height that you earned before landing on a slope affects your speed and new height as a result.

Edited by AsYouTrulyImaginedIt
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Detective Shadzter

Rev up a Spin Dash and Jump to reach a significant distance. Time air dashes just as you fall of the edge of a platform to multiply your speed significantly. Spin Dash then air dash for an ultimate speed boost.

Basically useless apart from in time attacking then? It doesn't co-exist with the levels like in the classics.

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BlueTidalGamer

I love Episode 2. It's so replayable for me. I myself can understand how people won't like the game and thats fine. I get a lot of enjoyment out of it. The levels are fun to play,the physics are better, the graphics are great and I love the soundtrack.

It's not without it's problems though. The red star coins having no effect on the game, no hidden ending, the rolling isn't quite there yet and the areas that have a lot of boosters and springs.

It's not a masterpiece but it's one of my favorite 2D Sonic games in the series.

Edited by BlueTidalGamer
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Badnik Mechanic

Episode 2 is great, because physics.

Episode 2 isn't that great for lots of problems other than physics.

I for one find the fact that it lacks imagination and is pretty much just a rip off of Sonic 2 to be a far worse problem for it. It's basically Sonic 2 wearing a bad disguise.

Theres huge chunks of the game where nothing is going on, especially the sky chase zone where at times you've got no idea if you're even moving as theres nothing on screen to give you any indication as to how fast you're going.

It has unfinished and ideas which have either had no thought put behind them or have been partially removed instead of completely removed. The Red Rings being a prime example.

The super combo my best buddy spin attack more or less totally breaks the game yet is required to get some of the achivements/trophies in the game.

The story is terrible. In fact I'd probably go as far to say that it lacks any story at all since it's just 'Eggman was building a planet sized Death Egg all along thats.... just sitting there doing nothing.'

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AsYouTrulyImaginedIt

Basically useless apart from in time attacking then? It doesn't co-exist with the levels like in the classics.

I added an extra point. You can build up momentum, it's just slightly more artificial, but still fun.

If anything they aren't hard enough.

I will agree on this.

Edited by AsYouTrulyImaginedIt
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AsYouTrulyImaginedIt

The irony of your signature is too much. laugh.png

That doesn't happen in Episode 2 tongue.png

Episode 2 isn't that great for lots of problems other than physics.

I for one find the fact that it lacks imagination and is pretty much just a rip off of Sonic 2 to be a far worse problem for it. It's basically Sonic 2 wearing a bad disguise.

Theres huge chunks of the game where nothing is going on, especially the sky chase zone where at times you've got no idea if you're even moving as theres nothing on screen to give you any indication as to how fast you're going.

It has unfinished and ideas which have either had no thought put behind them or have been partially removed instead of completely removed. The Red Rings being a prime example.

The super combo my best buddy spin attack more or less totally breaks the game yet is required to get some of the achivements/trophies in the game.

The story is terrible. In fact I'd probably go as far to say that it lacks any story at all since it's just 'Eggman was building a planet sized Death Egg all along thats.... just sitting there doing nothing.'

Well the game was slightly unfinished because of Sega's financial troubles. They didn't know if they could sell another high budget digital game. And I didn't find it hard to see how fast I was going in Sky Chase. The clouds move slower so it doesn't look cheap. I will agree on the Combo Roll though.

Edited by AsYouTrulyImaginedIt
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The irony of your signature is too much. laugh.png

Except that's E1 not 2.:/ Although physics are still janked up in 2. Edited by Riku
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If anything they aren't hard enough.

I came in to say exactly this. Just because it's slightly better than the first episode doesn't mean it's automatically good.

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Sonic 4 Episode 2 is a good (slightly bland) game in it's own right. A short and cheap digital download title.

The biggest problem is that it is called Sonic The Hedgehog 4. I kid you not, the biggest from with this game is it's name. The expectation for the long awaited sequel to the much loved Sonic 3&K, was always against Sonic 4. Episodic or not, the game is just too short. Where is the long term replay value?

It might be wrong to compare it to Sonic 3&K, as gameplay has gone through many changes since 1994, but then why did Sonic Team call the game Sonic 4? So it would sell.

I think that there would have been a lot less negativity towards this game, if it had been called something else, like Sonic DL.

Edited by NightwingFox
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Sonic 4 Episode 2 is a good (slightly bland) game in it's own right. A short and cheap digital download title.

The biggest problem is that it is called Sonic The Hedgehog 4. I kid you not, the biggest from with this game is it's fucking name. The expectation for the long awaited sequel to the much loved Sonic 3&K, was always against Sonic 4. Episodic or not, the game is just too short. Where is the long term replay value?

It might be wrong to compare it to Sonic 3&K, as gameplay as gone through many changes since 1994, but then why did Sonic Team call the game Sonic 4? So it would sell.

It's not cheap. It's still like 15 bucks to download isn't it?
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AsYouTrulyImaginedIt

Except that's E1 not 2.:/ Although physics are still janked up in 2.

I think if the Spin Dash was simply faster it would feel a lot better. They probably nerfed it on purpose because the weird friction calculations mean that Sonic can still get a bit sticky when moving quickly, and if he could roll up any slope with ease it would look even weirder.

Sonic 4 Episode 2 is a good (slightly bland) game in it's own right. A short and cheap digital download title.

The biggest problem is that it is called Sonic The Hedgehog 4. I kid you not, the biggest from with this game is it's name. The expectation for the long awaited sequel to the much loved Sonic 3&K, was always against Sonic 4. Episodic or not, the game is just too short. Where is the long term replay value?

It might be wrong to compare it to Sonic 3&K, as gameplay as gone through many changes since 1994, but then why did Sonic Team call the game Sonic 4? So it would sell.

I think that there would have been a lot less negativity towards this game, if it had been called something else, like Sonic DL.

Well you can't blame them for wanting some guaranteed money. Sega is having hard times.

Edited by AsYouTrulyImaginedIt
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Badnik Mechanic

Well the game was slightly unfinished because of Sega's financial troubles.

It is a digital title with Sonic in it, it was always going to sell. And the financial state is no excuse for the 'Heres the red rings' what do they unlock 'NOTHING!' Remove them, or leave them in and give us the reward.

They didn't know if they could sell another high budget digital game. And I didn't find it hard to see how fast I was going in Sky Chase. The clouds move slower so it doesn't look cheap. I will agree on the Combo Roll though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kIRkGZkcsk

Doesn't look cheap? Thats a laugh right? Just look at that video from 1min onwards. It looks like the player isn't moving the plane but he's moving the background.

Well you can't blame them for wanting some guaranteed money. Sega is having hard times.

Again, this is no excuse at all.

Also unless I'm mistaken, this is a completely wrong excuse too. Dimps made this game not Sega, the way it works is that Sega first comission them for a concept, it then goes through several judging moments before Sega gives them the full funds for the game. If they couldn't do a good job with what Sega were offering then they should have passed on the deal.

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AsYouTrulyImaginedIt

It is a digital title with Sonic in it, it was always going to sell. And the financial state is no excuse for the 'Heres the red rings' what do they unlock 'NOTHING!' Remove them, or leave them in and give us the reward.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kIRkGZkcsk

Doesn't look cheap? Thats a laugh right? Just look at that video from 1min onwards. It looks like the player isn't moving the plane but he's moving the background.

Again, this is no excuse at all.

What? It's a purposely delayed dynamic camera. It would look even worse being in front of the clouds if it was always focused on you. But anyway that's not a real problem to discuss. tongue.png

Edited by AsYouTrulyImaginedIt
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I bet those red rings were going to unlock something like a secret ending. I mean they probably didn't finish the ending or something.

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Is Episode 2 better than Episode 1? Absolutely!

Is Episode 2 a good game, even in it's own right? Not really, no.

When S4E1 was announced, SEGA made promises that were blatant lies right from day 1. It was a misguided, lazy project that was a failure both creatively and technically. It sold well because it marketed effectively to a frankly ignorant and/or stupid audience. But it was met with a lot of criticism from, criticism that was expected and even officially claimed to be addressed with Episode 2. What we got was simply an improved Episode 1 which being rotten to the core didn't help very much at all.

So without really going off on another long rant about the specifics of Sonic 4- no, people definitely are not too hard on it. Hogfather has made some really good posts above.

Edited by Blue Blood
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Sonic 4 Episode 2 suffered from a plethora of problems. I guess you could say it was a step up from Episode I but that really isn't saying much. Think of getting a D instead of an F on a test. Sure it is a letter improvement, but a D still looks terrible from the scoring perspective.

SEGA promised that Episode 2 was going to use a new engine. As a lot of people can tell you, it really isn't a new engine. It was just a modified engine and this is seen through similar glitches reappearing, the rolling, and Supersonic's physics. While it may have been an improvement, it was nothing compared to the classics. Dimps still has a long way to go if they want to get to the pure classic formula.

The level design still suffers from a lot of design issues Episode I faced. Why are we STILL getting homing attack chains? They are not that fun and they ruin the pace of the game. Whoever thought the idea of flying off a ramp and then doing a homing attack the split second an enemy shows up was a good idea, should be fired. I don't know how many times I've flung straight into an enemy. This is just cheap and it really shows when this same happens above a death pit. It just becomes a pain and an annoyance instead of something flashy.

The level tropes are definitely an improvement from Episode I, but as HogFather said, you can easily tell it is taking them from Sonic 2. The zone names and graphics just scream Sonic 2. Is it really that hard to come up with an original zone with unique gimmicks? I'm sure Sonic 4 would be much more memorable if it featured unique zones that are only found in the game. 10 years from now, are we going to remember any of Sonic 4's zones? They are mostly throwback and rehashes of our favorite zones. Inferior versions, that is.

The level design still takes a toll with some crappy enemy placement and hold right to win areas. Why am I jumping from booster to booster and spring to spring with no action taking place in between? It looks flashy, but it just gets old. I also hated the 69 gimmick because you could just boost through everything to the end. It made you invincible and super fast. It may even be better than Supersonic!

Oh, the Sky zone and Oil zone have some cheap gimmicks. The breaking of the boxes and instant kill exhausts were NOT fun to play. This is especially true with the fact you have to start over after you lose all your lives (all 2 of them). It just pissed me off to return to the game after dying. I really wanted to throw my iPhone at the wall.

The price of the game was just too high. I can get a 10000x better experience by buying Rayman for dirt cheap compared to this 15 dollar overpriced game. For 4 zones and subpar quality, $15 is just too much to pay. I can easily pay $5 for a Sonic CD enhanced port.

Now I have issues about the iPhone version.

The game is incredibly laggy, and the buttons aren't responsive during heavy lagged up zones. This makes it a chore to play and not fun. I'm aware this is not a problem on the iPod Touch 4G and the iPhone 4s/iPhone 5. Even SEGA is aware of this issue with the game. I would lower 2 points off the already low score of the game just because of the issue.

Overall, the game features a ton of problems that SEGA hasn't learned to fix. The physics are still off, the zones are still rehashes of previous games, the gimmicks are shit, the difficulty is cheap, the game is overpriced, and the level design is still crap.

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AsYouTrulyImaginedIt

I don't think we are the stupid ones. You should play a game based on its on merits, who cares what it's called? People loved the Rush games which are repetitive and easy, with a boost to hide the zero momentum. I look at Episode 1 as classic themed DLC for Sonic Rush, kinda fun but a bit boring. 6/10. I look at Episode 2 as a fun Sonic game with some elements of momentum, nostalgic and new stages, 8/10. And what did people give Sonic Rush? 9/10. :/

Sonic 4 Episode 2 suffered from a plethora of problems. I guess you could say it was a step up from Episode I but that really isn't saying much. Think of getting a D instead of an F on a test. Sure it is a letter improvement, but a D still looks terrible from the scoring perspective.

SEGA promised that Episode 2 was going to use a new engine. As a lot of people can tell you, it really isn't a new engine. It was just a modified engine and this is seen through similar glitches reappearing, the rolling, and Supersonic's physics. While it may have been an improvement, it was nothing compared to the classics. Dimps still has a long way to go if they want to get to the pure classic formula.

The level design still suffers from a lot of design issues Episode I faced. Why are we STILL getting homing attack chains? They are not that fun and they ruin the pace of the game. Whoever thought the idea of flying off a ramp and then doing a homing attack the split second an enemy shows up was a good idea, should be fired. I don't know how many times I've flung straight into an enemy. This is just cheap and it really shows when this same happens above a death pit. It just becomes a pain and an annoyance instead of something flashy.

The level tropes are definitely an improvement from Episode I, but as HogFather said, you can easily tell it is taking them from Sonic 2. The zone names and graphics just scream Sonic 2. Is it really that hard to come up with an original zone with unique gimmicks? I'm sure Sonic 4 would be much more memorable if it featured unique zones that are only found in the game. 10 years from now, are we going to remember any of Sonic 4's zones? They are mostly throwback and rehashes of our favorite zones. Inferior versions, that is.

The level design still takes a toll with some crappy enemy placement and hold right to win areas. Why am I jumping from booster to booster and spring to spring with no action taking place in between? It looks flashy, but it just gets old. I also hated the 69 gimmick because you could just boost through everything to the end. It made you invincible and super fast. It may even be better than Supersonic!

Oh, the Sky zone and Oil zone have some cheap gimmicks. The breaking of the boxes and instant kill exhausts were NOT fun to play. This is especially true with the fact you have to start over after you lose all your lives (all 2 of them). It just pissed me off to return to the game after dying. I really wanted to throw my iPhone at the wall.

The price of the game was just too high. I can get a 10000x better experience by buying Rayman for dirt cheap compared to this 15 dollar overpriced game. For 4 zones and subpar quality, $15 is just too much to pay. I can easily pay $5 for a Sonic CD enhanced port.

Now I have issues about the iPhone version.

The game is incredibly laggy, and the buttons aren't responsive during heavy lagged up zones. This makes it a chore to play and not fun. I'm aware this is not a problem on the iPod Touch 4G and the iPhone 4s/iPhone 5. Even SEGA is aware of this issue with the game. I would lower 2 points off the already low score of the game just because of the issue.

Overall, the game features a ton of problems that SEGA hasn't learned to fix. The physics are still off, the zones are still rehashes of previous games, the gimmicks are shit, the difficulty is cheap, the game is overpriced, and the level design is still crap.

I have the iPhone version too, and just because the FPS is lower doesn't mean there's input lag. It responds instantly, FPS does not affect the input, just the timing of the result on screen. You still press jump when you see Bubbles. :P

Edited by AsYouTrulyImaginedIt
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Badnik Mechanic

that's not a real problem to discuss. tongue.png

Yes it is.

The way that stage controls at times makes it feel like you are not in control of the character but are in fact in control of the background. Not only does this make the level feel uncomfortable to play on, it makes the overal experience a step down from what we got near 18 years ago with Sonic 2.

At times it feels like those Special Stages in episode 1 where you were not in control of Sonic, it's not a good way to play a stage at all, especially one which you're supposed to feel like you're flying high above the clouds going at several hundred miles per hour wit enemies zooming past you at even faster speeds. You lose all sense of that to the point where it feels more like you're playing a submarine game as everything flows by at a slow pace instead of a frantic flying combat stage.

I look at Episode 1 as classic themed DLC for Sonic Rush

1: Well maybe you should look at it how it's supposed to be looked at? That being a complete episode of a game? Maybe then you'll see why they're bad games?

2: I had a sunday lunch for breakfast.

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