Who has been Sonic's best rival so far?

[TheOcelot]

Aside from Dr Ivo (never killed anyone) Eggman Robotnik, I would go for Shadow as Sonic's best rival.

Shadow is an interesting character with a dark past. Sonic and Shadow were originally fierce rivals, but even now you wouldn't call them friends. It's more that they have this understanding to not fuck with each other. I like that. Whereas Knuckles was an awesome enemy in S3&K, but now all the fight has gone out of him, and he is just Sonic's number three (behind Tails). It's a shame really, a waste of good characters potential.

Also, a shout for Metal Sonic. MS is never afraid to go into battle with Sonic. Any excuse for a race.

Edited October 22, 2012 by NightwingFox

[Balding Spider]

I'm going to give it to Metal Sonic here. Shadow has only ever been a Rival once then became a reluctant ally to Sonic and co, and as nearly as I can tell has no desire to out do Sonic. Jet only ever wanted to prove he was better in the skies in an extreme sport, and nothing else outside of that.

Metal Sonic want's to be the superior Sonic and has shown to take extreme measures to make it happen, most notably in Sonic Heroes, and to a lesser extent Episode Metal.

Makes me wish his motivation was played up more.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Balding Spider

[Salamander]

...Johnny? He is essentially Metal Sonic crossed with Jet.

(Shark robot guy from Rush Adventure.)

[Kuzu]

Rivalry in this series has always bothered me, mostly because after all of the initial animosity is gone, said rival becomes just another ally with no further desire to best Sonic, or just fade into obscurity; which would be fine, but Sonic Team keep insisting on creating new "rivals" for Sonic, only for them to be phased out after said game, it's really freaking annoying.

If you want a character who's Sonic's equal, and has a competitive streak with them, don't play it up for one game and then say "screw it"

[Crash]

Metal Sonic or Mario.

[WarioBone]

Surely Sonic's greatest rival is.....

/thread

[batson]

Metal Sonic. I feel that both Knux and Shadow were good rivals to Sonic back when they actually were his rivals, but they aint his rivals in any significant sense no more, and at this point the only viable rival left in the series is Metal Sonic. Well there is also Jet i guess, but i can never get passed the fact that his rivalry with Sonic is based solely on wanting to prove that he is better than Sonic at riding a flying skateboard. Metal Sonic's wish to pretty much prove that he is just plain better at being Sonic feels so much more grand and significant.

Edited October 22, 2012 by batson

[Diogenes]

Rivalry in this series has always bothered me, mostly because after all of the initial animosity is gone, said rival becomes just another ally with no further desire to best Sonic, or just fade into obscurity; which would be fine, but Sonic Team keep insisting on creating new "rivals" for Sonic, only for them to be phased out after said game, it's really freaking annoying.

Yes, this. And this is kind of the problem with most of the cast; they write a character around one game, give them one story to go through and one obstacle to overcome, and then when that's done, they don't know what the fuck to do with them.

[Kuzu]

Yes, this. And this is kind of the problem with most of the cast; they write a character around one game, give them one story to go through and one obstacle to overcome, and then when that's done, they don't know what the fuck to do with them.

It's mostly because they don't bother trying to think beyond one game as far as everyone not named Sonic is concered, and as a result the characters lose purpose and meaning; It's happened with Knuckles due to the Master Emerald, and Angel Island not being relevant anymore and him turning into a dumbass meathead is the result of that, and Shadow due to him never being designed to be around for more than one game.

It's like they treat the characters more as accessories rather than beings that need to be fleshed out and grow, it's really fucking annoying. It's like all the writing talent died after Sonic Adventure 2.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Ragna the Bloodedge

[Dobe Tron]

Gotta give it to the Shadster, he has beaten Sonic in his own game on both the good hero level and the true bad level. Yes there endings non canon but at least thats more than I can say for the others. He also is the first one to humilate Sonic in a skirmish(Chaos Control vs. his speed) and got Sonic thrown in jail for it.

[Kuzu]

And here we go...

 

 

Gotta give it to the Shadster, he has beaten Sonic in his own game on both the good hero level and the true bad level. Yes there endings non canon but at least thats more than I can say for the others. He also is the first one to humilate Sonic in a skirmish(Chaos Control vs. his speed) and got Sonic thrown in jail for it.

 

 

And Knuckles humiliated Sonic by trolling him in Sonic 3

 

Jet humiliated Sonic by beating him in Extreme Gear

 

 

etc. etc.

[Broken Down Chemical Plant]

I would have to say Metal Sonic. Having pretty much all of the abilities as Sonic, and able to go at his top speed, he's a pretty good rival. If Knuckles and Shadow were still rivals, I would choose them as honourable mentions.

[Dobe Tron]

And here we go...

 

 

 

 

And Knuckles humiliated Sonic by trolling him in Sonic 3

 

Jet humiliated Sonic by beating him in Extreme Gear

 

 

etc. etc.

Skirmish not ambush or board skills.

 

Metal Sonic also is to evil to be a rival IMO.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

And here we go...

 

 

 

 

And Knuckles humiliated Sonic by trolling him in Sonic 3

 

Jet humiliated Sonic by beating him in Extreme Gear

 

 

etc. etc.

But it's worth noting that Shadow was the first rival to legitimately piss Sonic off during SA2 through his humiliation. Normally Sonic wouldn't be that bothered, but Shadow came around and slandered his reputation as the world hero, framing him by the military, and turned the world against him forcing him.

 

Didn't Dio make a statement on this?

[Diogenes]

Yeah. Unfortunately Shadow went from being a pretty damn good rival to an immensely shitty one as soon as SA2 ended.

[Kuzu]

Skirmish not ambush or board skills.

 

Metal Sonic also is to evil to be a rival IMO.

Does it really matter? Especially given this isn't a series about fighting.

 

 

But it's worth noting that Shadow was the first rival to legitimately piss Sonic off during SA2 through his humiliation. Normally Sonic wouldn't be that bothered, but Shadow came around and slandered his reputation as the world hero, framing him by the military, and turned the world against him forcing him.

 

Didn't Dio make a statement on this?

 

True, but as he said below, he became a pretty shitty one afterwards, and Jet kind of filled the void he left.

 

Yeah. Unfortunately Shadow went from being a pretty damn good rival to an immensely shitty one as soon as SA2 ended.

 

 

The wonders of bad, bad writing.

[Jack / Joker]

Gotta give it to the Shadster, he has beaten Sonic in his own game on both the good hero level and the true bad level. Yes there endings non canon

 

Are events that never actually took place, or what-if scenarios really a good source of information? Especially when there's better arguments for this... and when did Shadow top Sonic at being a hero?

 

He also is the first one to humilate Sonic in a skirmish(Chaos Control vs. his speed) and got Sonic thrown in jail for it.

 

Knuckles and Gamma had proven their worth in a fight against Sonic before Shadow did, and it was through their own merits as opposed to simply using a MacGuffin against him...

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Yeah. Unfortunately Shadow went from being a pretty damn good rival to an immensely shitty one as soon as SA2 ended.

True, but as he said below, he became a pretty shitty one afterwards, and Jet kind of filled the void he left.

And as that old saying goes, so has everyone else. And a lot of people include Jet into that category.

 

 

Knuckles and Gamma had proven their worth in a fight against Sonic before Shadow did, and it was through their own merits as opposed to simply using a MacGuffin against him...

 

Er...Sonic used that same MacGuffin in their last fight. And pretty sure that MacGuffin is a part of his merit dude.

 

You want to bash Shadow for that, then Knuckles did a cheap shot on Super Sonic at the beginning of S3&K with that ambush of his.

Edited January 1, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonic

[Vertekins]

Skirmish not ambush or board skills.

 

Metal Sonic also is to evil to be a rival IMO.

 

We're talking about rivalry. Sonic has always had a relatively friendly rivalry with Knuckles and Jet is still a rival regardless of the fact that it involves Extreme Gear. Rivalry is rivalry.

 

And evilness has no relevance to a character's rival status.

 

The question the topic poses? Metal Sonic. Not once has Metal degraded Sonic in an effort to make himself look better unlike Shadow, who in his own game of pure unadulterated wankdom degraded Sonic to being a stepping stone in the boss fight against him then unbelievably depicted him on the floor in the cutscene afterwards. Not to mention the opening in which Sonic drops before Shadow with Shadow not having so much as a scratch on him This is in no way, shape or form a believable depiction of rivalry. It's all "Show don't tell" and "We must shill this creator's pet for all it's worth to score with the 13 year old Shadow fanboys the world over"

 

Also, Shadow's actions in SA2 that led to Sonic's framing came about unintentionally. So it's not a case of doing this out of rivalry when initially Shadow was committing the crimes that led to Sonic being falsely accused, he wasn't doing it to get up Sonic's nose for the simple fact that he did not know of his existence. Even after Shadow learned of Sonic's existence, all of the times that Shadow opposed him stemmed from him viewing Sonic as an obstacle to remove rather than a true rival. This is outright stated in the story recap screens before the White Jungle and Final Chase bosses.

 

Metal Sonic's movement speed has been said to be superior to Sonic's foot speed, it's persistence makes it out to be a particularly stubborn rival and it's malfunctioning in Generations boss battle against it were caused by Classic Sonic damaging it before the fight even began, making it's abilities causing it to be defenseless after usage.

Edited January 1, 2013 by Vertekins

[Kuzu]

Knuckles and Gamma had proven their worth in a fight against Sonic before Shadow did, and it was through their own merits as opposed to simply using a MacGuffin against him...

 

Well Chaos Control IS Shadow's own unique skill(or well was anyway), so that does kind of count..

 

And as that old saying goes, so has everyone else. And a lot of people include Jet into that category.

 

Jet's honestly been in too few games for me to really say he's been written terribly. In every game his primary goal is beating Sonic, so I'd hardly call him a shitty rival.

 

Also, Shadow's actions in SA2 that led to Sonic's framing came about unintentionally. So it's not a case of doing this out of rivalry when initially Shadow was committing the crimes that led to Sonic being falsely accused, he wasn't doing it to get up Sonic's nose for the simple fact that he did not know of his existence. Even after Shadow learned of Sonic's existence, all of the times that Shadow opposed him stemmed from him viewing Sonic as an obstacle to remove rather than a true rival. This is outright stated in the story recap screens before the White Jungle and Final Chase bosses.

 

Well this is partially true; Shadow initially didn't think much of Sonic aside from assuming he's trying to steal his style, and like you said saw him as an obstacle and nothing more. It wasn't until their final confrontation that Shadow saw Sonic as the threat he really is due to being what was thought impossible, pulling off a move only Shadow had been able to use, and with a fake emerald no less, so it's from that point when Sonic went annoying obstacle to dangerous threat in Shadow's eyes.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Jet's honestly been in too few games for me to really say he's been written terribly. In every game his primary goal is beating Sonic, so I'd hardly call him a shitty rival.

I wouldn't either, but that's the Sonic Shitty Friends Syndrome at work within and outside the fandom.

[Kuzu]

I wouldn't either, but that's the Sonic Shitty Friends Syndrome at work within and outside the fandom.

 

 

Let's ignore the stupid complaints for a second, and look at things objectively; Jet, and the rest of the Babylon Rogues are hardly the worst new characters, and have served their purpose as rivals to Team Sonic pretty well, especially compared to the inconsistent characterization of the rest of the cast particularly the more popular ones like Shadow & Silver. 

[Scar]

I fail to see how Metal Sonic is a "rival". The thing was invented to basically murder Sonic. Metal Sonic isn't so much a rival, as opposed to a full-blown adversary.

[Kuzu]

I fail to see how Metal Sonic is a "rival". The thing was invented to basically murder Sonic. Metal Sonic isn't so much a rival, as opposed to a full-blown adversary.

 

Same difference, he's an antagonist to Sonic, but not the main antagonist. You'd can easily call him both a rival and enemy.

[Diogenes]

Knuckles and Gamma had proven their worth in a fight against Sonic before Shadow did, and it was through their own merits as opposed to simply using a MacGuffin against him...

None of this challenges his point at all. 

 

The question the topic poses? Metal Sonic. Not once has Metal degraded Sonic in an effort to make himself look better

What does this have to do with being or not being a good rival? Also Metal's never done this largely because he's never done anything.

Also, Shadow's actions in SA2 that led to Sonic's framing came about unintentionally.

It may have started that way, but it didn't stay that way. A character doesn't need to apply for an official rivalry license before making his first move for it to be a rivalry.

unlike Shadow, who in his own game of pure unadulterated wankdom degraded Sonic to being a stepping stone in the boss fight against him then unbelievably depicted him on the floor in the cutscene afterwards. Not to mention the opening in which Sonic drops before Shadow with Shadow not having so much as a scratch on him

Are you personally blaming Shadow for ShtH's shitty writing? 

and it's malfunctioning in Generations boss battle against it were caused by Classic Sonic damaging it before the fight even began, making it's abilities causing it to be defenseless after usage.

...what?

Edited January 1, 2013 by Diogenes