Dragon Ball (Warning: Untagged Spoilers)

[Zaysho]

re: Schemmel's whole blow up on Reddit, it's kind of amusing to see people talking about deviating from the source. Even as dumb as I think the accent sounds, I can see what they're going for, Schemmel conveyed the idea the wrong way (which is what all these people are jumping down his throat for--god forbid actors don't know the minutia fans do). It's just a voice, not rewriting the character (which FUNi wouldn't do with a big property like Dragon Ball anymore, and they certainly don't get away with it in their smaller shows when they try), and the Japanese version will be presented correctly in the coming months since Steve Simmons is re-doing Toei's translations (which, themselves, have a lot of localized additions like character and attack names based on FUNimation's version and I don't see anybody bitching about those).

[Ryannumber1gamer]

1 hour ago, DiamondX the Fighter said:

I'm pretty sure that either way they should have listened to the fans and remove the accent.

Why can't they just have the same voice?

The same reason why Adult Goku actually sounds like an adult and different from when he was a child.

Or the same reason why Cell has multiple voices for his different forms.

Or the same reason why SSJ4 Goku has a different voice instead of Kid Goku screaming in this powerful form. Because it doesn't follow the Japanese dub and even at that, if they did listen to fans all of the time, we wouldn't even have an dub because of the amount of ire it gathered from "hardcore fans". 

[Vec]

Well...they are making him change how the character sounds when he transforms, something that didn't happen in the original. Isn't that technically re-writing the character?

[Ryannumber1gamer]

1 minute ago, Ice Vec said:

Well...they are making him change how the character sounds when he transforms, something that didn't happen in the original. Isn't that technically re-writing the character?

No, rewriting the character would be like if Black changed from an egotistical man who believes himself better than all mortals who should be destroyed and turned him into someone like Kid Buu, who's just a psychopath who doesn't think or speak.

Rewriting a character is completely changing their personality and their characterization, not just changing the way he speaks. Even in the Japanese dub, he spoke like Zamasu more than Goku so giving him a "proper" accent isn't changing that. If that were the case, literally Goku would be rewrote because he doesn't sound like a child when he speaks.

[DiamondX]

The idea is that adding the accent makes no sense.

I would understand him using more fancy words or something like that but not this.

[Ratcicle King]

To be fair, we have yet to see how that will work on the show. As of now we have only Xenoverse 2 and FighterZ to go by, one game that had one of the worst voice directions in the franchise, and another game that, while it hasn't been said if the voice direction was bad, still most likely had it's voice acting done before Sean had a good feel and direction on the character.

[Tani Coyote]

8 hours ago, Meta77 said:

I don't see frieza killing a Kai. He is much to trashed I figure everyone will forget him.

Cell forgot about Vegeta.

We know how that ended for him.

Frieza may very well execute Khai when it looks like Toppo is going to come out on top.

8 hours ago, Meta77 said:

They keep making it seem like you only get one I can't remember how many you get

One, yes.

[Tani Coyote]

On Toppo's ascension:

It is triggered by him completely foregoing his morals in favor of caring only about life and death. Belmod comments this makes him no different from a God of Destruction. So in theory, to ascend to God of Destruction status, you need that mentality.

Of course, we've seen that the current Gods have some ethical considerations. There's such a thing as too much destruction for Beerus, and likewise he seems to have started to care about his mortals. For Belmod, he's interested in spreading justice through his reality, not lording over people. Most Gods of Destruction are fairly amoral, giving credence to the idea you need to be amoral to ascend, but there are cracks that indicate one can have ethics after ascension.

It is possible that ascension to Hakaishin is akin to when one first goes Super Saiyan. Dark emotions are brought out full force, and while one retains reasoning power, the darker side of one's personality takes the fore. Perhaps much like how Super Saiyans eventually learn how to ascend and remain tranquil with their power boost, a God of Destruction taps their power without being nihilist.

Also yes I'm writing off Caulifla's back tingle. To Hell with that.

[Pawn]

I don't think the transformation to a Hakaishin causes dark emotions; especially since for Toppo it's the other way around. Freeza pushed him into making the tough decision to leave the idea of good and evil behind and become a neutral figure. That said, he's still understandably pissed and disgusted by Freeza, so he goes to town on him while taking it relatively easy on 17.

With Freeza still in bounds, I'm expecting him to get whipped around by Jiren as well since it seems to be a running theme with him and the Pride Troopers. Either that or he will learn from his arrogance and be careful this time. He clearly has an important role to play at the end; maybe donating his energy to Goku was another one the writers' foreshadowing. 17, I'm guessing, will have a purpose yet fulfilled as well.

Maybe each fight will go down similarly to Gohan Vs Dyspo, with Vegeta and Goku being forced to make some kind of sacrifice or risky move against Toppo and Jiren respectively and with the assistance of another fighter.

[Tani Coyote]

On 1/29/2018 at 9:02 AM, 11 Pawns-a-Piping said:

I don't think the transformation to a Hakaishin causes dark emotions; especially since for Toppo it's the other way around. Freeza pushed him into making the tough decision to leave the idea of good and evil behind and become a neutral figure.

Sure, except I'd consider "neutrality" objectively dark, since it means there are no restraints on one's behavior; most people would consider an "only survival matters" mentality as the road to Hell. When your job is literally to destroy things, having some restraint seems like a good idea. The trend seems to be most Gods are awful because they are not only largely immoral but also intellectually lazy on top of it.

And I mean moral restraints, not practical "I can't kill you due to the rules" restraints.

At no point does being a destroyer mean you'd have to not have any values, after all. Most people have put down - that is, destroyed - a pet out of mercy at some point. It didn't make them amoral psychopaths.

Universe 5 and 8 have the model Gods, I think. Their destruction method is strictly cerebral, but it doesn't seem to have chipped away at their ability to have moral values when not in the line of duty.

Quote

With Freeza still in bounds, I'm expecting him to get whipped around by Jiren as well since it seems to be a running theme with him and the Pride Troopers. Either that or he will learn from his arrogance and be careful this time. He clearly has an important role to play at the end; maybe donating his energy to Goku was another one the writers' foreshadowing

Frieza said outright that he didn't want to have to fight Jiren, so I imagine he's already recognized it would not be a good idea to go after him.

[Vec]

I'm starting to feel that 17 also planned this. He prevented Freeza from being sent out of bounds and then kept distracting Toppo so he forgets about him. In fact, I have a feeling that this will give U7 the victory: When time runs out and everyone thinks that since Goku and Jiren are there, they are tied, but then the GP will state that Freeza is still there so U7 wins

[Shade Vortex]

I think Frieza's survival will be more significant than just a by-the-numbers victory in a time-out. I feel like he's going to come back with a vengeance, possibly with a new form or just a more powerful True Golden Frieza, and do a final gambit last ditch effort move to KO Toppo, possibly taking himself (or even 17) out with him.

[Pawn]

23 hours ago, Bergamo (Ogilvie) said:

Sure, except I'd consider "neutrality" objectively dark, since it means there are no restraints on one's behavior; most people would consider an "only survival matters" mentality as the road to Hell. When your job is literally to destroy things, having some restraint seems like a good idea. The trend seems to be most Gods are awful because they are not only largely immoral but also intellectually lazy on top of it.

And I mean moral restraints, not practical "I can't kill you due to the rules" restraints.

At no point does being a destroyer mean you'd have to not have any values, after all. Most people have put down - that is, destroyed - a pet out of mercy at some point. It didn't make them amoral psychopaths.

Universe 5 and 8 have the model Gods, I think. Their destruction method is strictly cerebral, but it doesn't seem to have chipped away at their ability to have moral values when not in the line of duty.

Frieza said outright that he didn't want to have to fight Jiren, so I imagine he's already recognized it would not be a good idea to go after him.

Toppo's not done anything to suggest that he has become an awful being, though. He punished Freeza...but that was Freeza. I imagine Toppo taking his job a lot more seriously than Belmod or Beerus.

I didn't mean that Freeza would challenge Jiren to prove a point, but might try to distract him as part of some kind of plan or whatever.

[Ratcicle King]

SOUNDTRACK'S COMING BOYS

FEBRUARY 28TH

[-Robin-]

Well, that leak about how the episodes will go is false now.

 

Spoiler

 

Guess Vegeta is successful in taking down Toppo next episode, and he managed to save 17 from elimination in the process. 

 

[Ratcicle King]

Spoiler

Freeza also isn't mentioned, even tho' the leak for 126 says he'll try to fight Toppo with his telekinesis.

Welp, guess that's it for our Golden boy

 

[Meta77]

6 hours ago, Ratcicle King said:

  Hide contents

Freeza also isn't mentioned, even tho' the leak for 126 says he'll try to fight Toppo with his telekinesis.

Welp, guess that's it for our Golden boy

 

He's knocked out I doubt he would get up so soon or make a scene.

Also vol 2. Wheres vol 1 of supers ost

[Ratcicle King]

Just now, Meta77 said:

He's knocked out I doubt he would get up so soon or make a scene.

Also vol 2. Wheres vol 1 of supers ost

Spoiler

 

The preview for 126 mentions him and 17 coming up with a plan to stop Toppo, so he'll wake up, and the lack of his presence in 127 indicates he won't make it past this fight

 

Also Vol 1 has been out since 2016

[Meta77]

28 minutes ago, Ratcicle King said:

  Hide contents

 

The preview for 126 mentions him and 17 coming up with a plan to stop Toppo, so he'll wake up, and the lack of his presence in 127 indicates he won't make it past this fight

 

 

 

 

Also Vol 1 has been out since 2016

What! I've been looking

[Tani Coyote]

On 1/31/2018 at 5:16 AM, Ice Vec said:

I'm starting to feel that 17 also planned this. He prevented Freeza from being sent out of bounds and then kept distracting Toppo so he forgets about him. In fact, I have a feeling that this will give U7 the victory: When time runs out and everyone thinks that since Goku and Jiren are there, they are tied, but then the GP will state that Freeza is still there so U7 wins

That would actually be rather brilliant, though I imagine we'll see him once more before the whole thing is over.

On 1/31/2018 at 11:51 AM, 11 Pawns-a-Piping said:

Toppo's not done anything to suggest that he has become an awful being, though. He punished Freeza...but that was Freeza. I imagine Toppo taking his job a lot more seriously than Belmod or Beerus.

He is literally casually throwing around energy that can erase people from existence. Beerus has only used that technique on awful people, and the only other God we've seen use it was Sidra, who used it to kill innocent people, reinforcing what an awful God he is.

Toppo's writing is a bit over the place, though. He seems impressed Frieza survived the destruction energy, only to later say he can't kill Frieza due to the rules. Is he bouncing between rampage and restraint or what?

[Ratcicle King]

6 minutes ago, Bergamo (Ogilvie) said:

That would actually be rather brilliant, though I imagine we'll see him once more before the whole thing is over.

He is literally casually throwing around energy that can erase people from existence. Beerus has only used that technique on awful people, and the only other God we've seen use it was Sidra, who used it to kill innocent people, reinforcing what an awful God he is.

Toppo's writing is a bit over the place, though. He seems impressed Frieza survived the destruction energy, only to later say he can't kill Frieza due to the rules. Is he bouncing between rampage and restraint or what?

Yeah but Freeza way back on his reintroduction, made it clear someone can survive the energy if they're strong enough. Even Goku, in his base form, managed to survive being stuck on a hakai sphere for about an episode. Toppo most likely knows the blast won't kill Freeza based on his strenght, just like it didn't kill Goku in that episode. It was enough to overpower him, but no to kill him.

And I'm pretty sure he was surprised Freeza was still standing, and not knocked out cold or out of the ring.

[Tani Coyote]

2 minutes ago, Ratcicle King said:

Yeah but Freeza way back on his reintroduction, made it clear someone can survive the energy if they're strong enough. Even Goku, in his base form, managed to survive being stuck on a hakai sphere for about an episode. Toppo most likely knows the blast won't kill Freeza based on his strenght,

Frieza was also receiving only a taste of Sidra's power, and Sidra is quite possibly one of the weaker Gods. It's entirely possible Toppo's Destruction energy is far more powerful.

I think Toppo is being reckless.

2 minutes ago, Ratcicle King said:

just like it didn't kill Goku in that episode. It was enough to overpower him, but no to kill him.

Actually, it looked like Goku was going to die from it, but Beerus showed up in time to save him.

Let's remember that Goku can be seriously wounded by even a small laser blast if he isn't at full power. It's likely he would have been erased had Beerus not shown up.

Fortunately, it was only a tiny amount of energy, unlike when Beerus personally executed Zamasu.

[Pawn]

1 hour ago, Bergamo (Ogilvie) said:

That would actually be rather brilliant, though I imagine we'll see him once more before the whole thing is over.

He is literally casually throwing around energy that can erase people from existence. Beerus has only used that technique on awful people, and the only other God we've seen use it was Sidra, who used it to kill innocent people, reinforcing what an awful God he is.

Toppo's writing is a bit over the place, though. He seems impressed Frieza survived the destruction energy, only to later say he can't kill Frieza due to the rules. Is he bouncing between rampage and restraint or what?

The blasts must not be enough to erase his opponents though. It doesn't make a lot of sense given the nature of the energy, but he seems to know what he's doing.

[Tani Coyote]

Well tonight's episode was pretty neat. Glad they went the route of Vegeta being the one to defeat Toppo, sure enough by contrasting their different takes on one's values. Vegeta ends up using the sacrificial technique he used against Buu, but he's strong enough now that it merely depletes him of energy rather than killing him. The arena is totally destroyed now, though.

So we have Jiren vs the remaining 4. Jiren is powering up, and he's also turned into a world class dick by saying he is disappointed in Toppo and Dyspo. ...Goku of course is pissed he'd say that about his teammates, but he gets a face full of Jiren's boot afterward.

Vegeta is able to blast through Toppo's Destruction energy at multiple points during his rage at how Toppo would give up who he is for power, so that will raise all kinds of questions about the dynamics of Destruction energy. It doesn't help we've never seen someone like Beerus use it the same way, only weaker Gods and candidates.

17 will be the focus of the next episode, and of course, he will lose.

Getting rid of Toppo so early kind of ruins the surprise; obviously anybody who isn't fighting Jiren in the last episode or two will be knocked out.

[Ratcicle King]

I think Jiren's disappointment is specifically at Toppo. Let's remember he's been said to believe in two things above all: Justice and pride in one's power.

Toppo not only gave up any notion of justice he had, but also did so for a cheap power up, unashamed at his own weakness. He, the leader of the PRIDE troopers, showed he had no pride or self esteem in his own power, that when the chips were down, he'd prefer to rely on something else than his own strenght.  Jiren is disgusted because the guy he respected as a leader and friend betrayed the two main principles of their team, and Jiren's own personal beliefs, out of cowardice.

And it's kinda fitting that Vegeta is the one to eliminate Toppo especially with the Final Explosion. After all, Vegeta himself once let his own weakness take over, letting go of his morals for a cheap power up and becoming Majin Vegeta. To do the same attack he did to atone for his sins, and survive this time, on his own strenght no less, shows how much he's evolved as a character.