Dragon Ball (Warning: Untagged Spoilers)

[Kuzu]

1 hour ago, Shaddy the Zaphod said:

I've said for years that Broly is the representation of everything wrong with Dragon Ball's portrayal of muscles, power levels, screaming and violence. He has no personality, a ridiculous over-the-top design, and is written with all the finesse of a small dog yipping at the door when cars go by. Toriyama does stupid stuff sometimes, even a lot, but he's not one to write a character the way Broly has been written for all three of his stupid movies. Broly is boring, stupid, and carried completely by his fights and design, which is the opposite of what's good in this series, where characters should have great personalities that complement their fights. Basically anything Toriyama does will be an improvement to the guy, and my main worry is that he won't do enough.

Broly's design is supremely unique since the only other character who has a similar design was Trunks as an USSJ. Besides that, his fighting style is incredibly unique being a combination of a wrestler and an all out brawler. In a series that focuses on martial arts, that's major.  His personality sucks sure, but I don't agree that Broly is "everything wrong with Dragon Ball" and feel like people have been listening too much to Teamfourstar and their opinions of the character.  So I'm curious on what Toriyama does with him even if I don't care much for Broly himself.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

1 hour ago, Zaysho said:

You know, as long as we're adapting old Toei concepts back into some animated version of the manga continuity can we bring back Hell as it was originally portrayed in Z and drop the bullshit from Resurrection 'F' and Super? Please?

Personally, I have a headcanon that the hell from Z does exist, the one in RF and Super was a personal one that Frieza got sent to because he was that awful.

I know it doesn't count, but the dub of Super confirms it does exist. The English dub of the Arale crossover specifically mentions the villain of Dr. Slump escaped from the Home for Infinite Losers. Again, it's not canon, it's dub and likely a joke, but at the very least, Funi is acknowledging it's existence so I don't think it is impossible.

[Ratcicle King]

11 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Personally, I have a headcanon that the hell from Z does exist, the one in RF and Super was a personal one that Frieza got sent to because he was that awful.

I know it doesn't count, but the dub of Super confirms it does exist. The English dub of the Arale crossover specifically mentions the villain of Dr. Slump escaped from the Home for Infinite Losers. Again, it's not canon, it's dub and likely a joke, but at the very least, Funi is acknowledging it's existence so I don't think it is impossible.

 

It's implied later in Super that each bad guy has their own personal hell, which they stay until they repent and are then reincarnated. Freeza's such a prick that he refused to repent, hence he was still around. This also explains why Goku didn't get Perfect Cell or anyone else for the ToP, they had most likely reincarnated already.

As for the dub thing, the entire episode was a big joke and not to be taken seriously.

[Zaysho]

11 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Personally, I have a headcanon that the hell from Z does exist, the one in RF and Super was a personal one that Frieza got sent to because he was that awful.

I know it doesn't count, but the dub of Super confirms it does exist. The English dub of the Arale crossover specifically mentions the villain of Dr. Slump escaped from the Home for Infinite Losers. Again, it's not canon, it's dub and likely a joke, but at the very least, Funi is acknowledging it's existence so I don't think it is impossible.

I can't really reconcile the anime version of Hell with the RF/Super version because they're quite different. And, as much as I hate to admit it, the way the latter exists is perfectly consistent with the manga because Vegeta suggested wishing Krillin's and Goku's spirits over to Earth before reviving them if they would just be dropped back into the void where old Namek was. There's also the fact that most beings that go to Hell are turned into spirits, purged of their memories, and reincarnated (Piccolo tells this to Vegeta). Freeza was a special case because of what a terror he was to the galaxy. There don't appear to be personal Hells (though Ratcicle might have a point that Freeza just refuses to repent), there are afterlifes bound to a particular planet (so, for example, the Ginyu Force are gone for good because they all died on Namek with the exception of the Captain).

At least, this appears to be how the manga/Super want it to work, and I do think they work well, even if I think it's totally boring in comparison.

[Meta77]

I'm loving this salt from people on Twitter. Boy oh boy what a night :). Remember when people moaned over jiren

[Shaddy Zaphod]

2 hours ago, Zaysho said:

At least, this appears to be how the manga/Super want it to work, and I do think they work well, even if I think it's totally boring in comparison.

While I don't have a particular attachment to Toriyama's hell (kinda think it'd be neat to see who our villains reincarnated as even if they're just random people), is the anime filler version really much better? Besides the fact that it doesn't really make any sense that all the villains still have their bodies there, I never found anything particularly engaging about it. True, I don't remember it that well, but I never found anything particularly fun about a couple ogres, some dangerous mountains and a few structures. It hardly feels like a hell for the most part, and the fact that it's shown to be so dysfunctional that the villains can easily take it over, or two old scientists can build a robot capable of breaking out, makes things more just annoying to me.

If anything, I'd rather the landscape and characters be repurposed as a sort of bureaucratic hub for all the personal hells each villain is confined to, something a little more in-line with the afterlife check-in station, and then show off some of the different fates previous villains were doomed to. Frieza in Super also suggests that different worlds have different hells, which makes me wonder what the afterlife for Nameks or even alternate universes looks like (though that doesn't make a ton sense either, since the afterlife still exists even when Earth is destroyed in Z).

 

 

[Marcello]

It sounds like Broly's basic design might be staying the same, so I guess Yamcha-Saiyan is a new character. That's what I wanted, so I'm happy.

[Pawn]

Surely the Yamcha-like Saiyan is Broly? He has a scar and is without the head accessory, but it looks like him enough. This has to be a very different take on the character, because he's wearing Saiyan armour in the trailer (unless that's another Saiyan, but... I doubt it).

I have absolutely zero love for Broly, but if Toriyama is reworking (perhaps fully reinventing) the character, then I'm not too bothered about it. I'd rather have something entirely new, of course. This might actually be kind of interesting though. Throw Broly's awful back story, such that is, into the trash. Add something resembling a personality and build on his aggressive fighting style (since who will really miss anything else?) and you have a shot at pleasing everyone.

I wonder if Kale will be mentioned in passing. Either way; considering that she tussled with Blue in the anime and the manga, his canon form could justifiably rival Goku and Vegeta at their best.

[ThePrinceOfSaiyans]

Finished my Dragon Ball marathon. To recap:

Dragon Ball Series

• Hunt for the Dragon Balls Arc: 7/10 
• 21st Tenkaichi Budokai Arc: 7.5/10 
• Red Ribbon Arc: 7.25/10
• 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai Arc: 7.5/10
• Piccolo Daimao Arc: 7.25/10
• 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai Arc: 8/10
• Filler: 6.25/10
• Overall Score: 7.25/10

Dragon Ball Movies

• The Legend of Shen Long (Curse of the Blood Rubies): 7/10
• Sleeping Princess in Devil's Castle: 8/10
• A Mystical Great Adventure: 7.5/10

Dragon Ball Z Series

• Saiyan Arc: 8/10
• Freeza Arc: 8/10
• Artificial Human Arc: 8.25/10
• Majin Boo Arc: 7.5/10
• Filler: 6.5/10
• Overall Score: 7.75/10

Dragon Ball Z TV Specials

• A Final, Solitary Battle: The Father of the Z-Warrior Kakarotto, who Challenged Freeza (Bardock: The Father of Goku): 10/10
• Defiance in the Face of Despair!! The Remaining Super-Warriors: Gohan and Trunks (The History of Trunks): 10/10

Dragon Ball Z Movies

• Return My Gohan!! (Dead Zone): 8/10
• The World's Strongest Guy: 9/10
• A Super Decisive Battle for Earth (Tree of Might) 7.5/10
• Super Saiyan Son Goku (Lord Slug): 7/10
• The Incredible Strongest vs Strongest (Cooler's Revenge): 9/10
• Clash!! 10,000,000,000 Powerful Warriors (The Return of Cooler): 7.5/10
• Extreme Battle!! The Three Great Super Saiyans (Super Android 13): 7/10
• Burn Up!! A Red-Hot, Raging, Super Fierce Fight (Broly: The Legendary Super Saiyan): 9/10
• The Galaxy at the Brink!! The Super Incredible Guy (Bojack Unbound): 8/10
• Dangerous Duo! Super-Warriors Can't Rest (Broly: Second Coming): 6/10
• Super-Warrior Defeat!! I'm the One Who'll Win (Bio Broly): 6/10
• Rebirth of Fusion!! Goku and Vegeta: 10/10
• Dragon Fist Explosion!! If Goku Won't do it, Who Will?: 8/10

Dragon Ball GT Series

• Baby Arc: 6.75/10
• Super No. 17 Arc: 6.5/10
• Evil Dragons Arc: 7/10
• Overall Score: 6.75/10

Dragon Ball GT TV Special(s)

• Goku's Side Story!! The Proof of his Courage is the 4-Star Ball: 5/10

Dragon Ball "GT" Movie(s)

• The Path to Ultimate Strength: 7.5/10

Modern Dragon Ball Z

• Heya! Son Goku and his Friends Return!!: 6/10
• Plan to Eradicate the Super Saiyans: 6/10
• Episode of Bardock: 2/10
• Battle of Gods: 9/10
• Resurrection 'F': 7.5/10

Dragon Ball Super Series

• Beerus Arc: 6.25/10
• Resurrection 'F' Arc: 6/10
• Champa Arc: 6.75/10
• Future Trunks Arc: 6.5/10
• Universe Survival Arc: 7.25/10
• Filler: 6/10
• Overall Score: 6.5/10

Dragon Ball Super Movie(s)

• BROLY: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

If you're interested in the ratings for each episode within an arc, I created a document for that. Dragon Ball Marathon Ratings

[DiamondX]

29 minutes ago, ThePrinceOfSaiyans said:

Finished my Dragon Ball marathon. To recap:

Dragon Ball Series

• Hunt for the Dragon Balls Arc: 7/10 
• 21st Tenkaichi Budokai Arc: 7.5/10 
• Red Ribbon Arc: 7.25/10
• 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai Arc: 7.5/10
• Piccolo Daimao Arc: 7.25/10
• 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai Arc: 8/10
• Filler: 6.25/10
• Overall Score: 7.25/10

Dragon Ball Movies

• The Legend of Shen Long (Curse of the Blood Rubies): 7/10
• Sleeping Princess in Devil's Castle: 8/10
• A Mystical Great Adventure: 7.5/10

Dragon Ball Z Series

• Saiyan Arc: 8/10
• Freeza Arc: 8/10
• Artificial Human Arc: 8.25/10
• Majin Boo Arc: 7.5/10
• Filler: 6.5/10
• Overall Score: 7.75/10

Dragon Ball Z TV Specials

• A Final, Solitary Battle: The Father of the Z-Warrior Kakarotto, who Challenged Freeza (Bardock: The Father of Goku): 10/10
• Defiance in the Face of Despair!! The Remaining Super-Warriors: Gohan and Trunks (The History of Trunks): 10/10

Dragon Ball Z Movies

• Return My Gohan!! (Dead Zone): 8/10
• The World's Strongest Guy: 9/10
• A Super Decisive Battle for Earth (Tree of Might) 7.5/10
• Super Saiyan Son Goku (Lord Slug): 7/10
• The Incredible Strongest vs Strongest (Cooler's Revenge): 9/10
• Clash!! 10,000,000,000 Powerful Warriors (The Return of Cooler): 7.5/10
• Extreme Battle!! The Three Great Super Saiyans (Super Android 13): 7/10
• Burn Up!! A Red-Hot, Raging, Super Fierce Fight (Broly: The Legendary Super Saiyan): 9/10
• The Galaxy at the Brink!! The Super Incredible Guy (Bojack Unbound): 8/10
• Dangerous Duo! Super-Warriors Can't Rest (Broly: Second Coming): 6/10
• Super-Warrior Defeat!! I'm the One Who'll Win (Bio Broly): 6/10
• Rebirth of Fusion!! Goku and Vegeta: 10/10
• Dragon Fist Explosion!! If Goku Won't do it, Who Will?: 8/10

Dragon Ball GT Series

• Baby Arc: 6.75/10
• Super No. 17 Arc: 6.5/10
• Evil Dragons Arc: 7/10
• Overall Score: 6.75/10

Dragon Ball GT TV Special(s)

• Goku's Side Story!! The Proof of his Courage is the 4-Star Ball: 5/10

Dragon Ball "GT" Movie(s)

• The Path to Ultimate Strength: 7.5/10

Modern Dragon Ball Z

• Heya! Son Goku and his Friends Return!!: 6/10
• Plan to Eradicate the Super Saiyans: 6/10
• Episode of Bardock: 2/10
• Battle of Gods: 9/10
• Resurrection 'F': 7.5/10

Dragon Ball Super Series

• Beerus Arc: 6.25/10
• Resurrection 'F' Arc: 6/10
• Champa Arc: 6.75/10
• Future Trunks Arc: 6.5/10
• Universe Survival Arc: 7.25/10
• Filler: 6/10
• Overall Score: 6.5/10

Dragon Ball Super Movie(s)

• BROLY: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

If you're interested in the ratings for each episode within an arc, I created a document for that. Dragon Ball Marathon Ratings

How do you dare give Super's filler only a 6? Copy Vegeta alone deserves a 10/10.

[Tani Coyote]

I know a lot of people wanna give whatever Toriyama says a lot of weight, based on how the word "canon" is being tossed around, but...

Death of the Author, everyone. So long as it's been shown somewhere, you have every right to consider it canon.

On 7/9/2018 at 6:55 PM, Ratcicle King said:

This also explains why Goku didn't get Perfect Cell or anyone else for the ToP, they had most likely reincarnated already.

While the decision to recruit Frieza was technically based on an offhand comment by Beerus about the Frieza Force, I think the choice was ultimately made for a practical reason: as Golden Frieza, he'd be enormously powerful, on par with Super Saiyan Blue, making him a third powerhouse to complement Goku and Vegeta. The fact he was able to overcome the stamina issue during his time in Hell just means he was an even better fit.

Although that does raise the question of if we should see a reincarnated Cell; I mean... if we're getting a reincarnated Kid Buu... XP

[DiamondX]

2 minutes ago, Bergamo (Ogilvie) said:

I know a lot of people wanna give whatever Toriyama says a lot of weight, based on how the word "canon" is being tossed around, but...

Death of the Author, everyone. So long as it's been shown somewhere, you have every right to consider it canon.

While the decision to recruit Frieza was technically based on an offhand comment by Beerus about the Frieza Force, I think the choice was ultimately made for a practical reason: as Golden Frieza, he'd be enormously powerful, on par with Super Saiyan Blue, making him a third powerhouse to complement Goku and Vegeta. The fact he was able to overcome the stamina issue during his time in Hell just means he was an even better fit.

Although that does raise the question of if we should see a reincarnated Cell; I mean... if we're getting a reincarnated Kid Buu... XP

Llec?

[Meta77]

Broly>cell

[Ratcicle King]

3 hours ago, Bergamo (Ogilvie) said:

I know a lot of people wanna give whatever Toriyama says a lot of weight, based on how the word "canon" is being tossed around, but...

Death of the Author, everyone. So long as it's been shown somewhere, you have every right to consider it canon.

While the decision to recruit Frieza was technically based on an offhand comment by Beerus about the Frieza Force, I think the choice was ultimately made for a practical reason: as Golden Frieza, he'd be enormously powerful, on par with Super Saiyan Blue, making him a third powerhouse to complement Goku and Vegeta. The fact he was able to overcome the stamina issue during his time in Hell just means he was an even better fit.

Although that does raise the question of if we should see a reincarnated Cell; I mean... if we're getting a reincarnated Kid Buu... XP

Watch it be Pan.

Not only she's strong as fuck from the get go but she tried to beat up Future Trunks the moment she saw him

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Man, that would just prove how much the universe hates Gohan.

Anyway, I think the thing being missed is that they reincarnate as normal life-forms. Uub would exist either way, it's only his power and eventual crossing paths with the main cast that Goku asked Enma for.

[-Robin-]

Nah, I prefer Cell to stay gone to retain the irony.

 

He was created to be the ultimate life form, one that could never be beaten, and he fanatically believed himself to be so. Now he's the weakest Z Saga villain by a huuuuuuuge margin. It's perfect.

[PC the Hedgehog]

At first I was really bummed that the most boring villain in Dragon Ball history was getting yet ANOTHER movie to his name, but after reading Toriyama's comments about how he plans to actually improve on his character...I'm kinda excited to see how Super Broly compares to Z Broly.

C'mon, Toriyama. I have faith in you.

[8ther]

The question is, How strong will Super!Broly be in comparison to Jiren and the GoDs

[DiamondX]

The US will get the movie next year, in January.

[ThePrinceOfSaiyans]

I don't like those colors on Broli...

[DiamondX]

Is Goku gonna turn SSG again based on that picture?

[ThePrinceOfSaiyans]

Seems like it.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Bulma confirmed, and Broly shows his dedication to the series' legacy by giving us a daily dose.

[ThePrinceOfSaiyans]

A closer look at Broli's new design.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Notes:

-Current Frieza Force armor

-metal necklace (possible remnant of mind control restraints from the original Broly)

-super saiyan dick bulge

-yellow eyes in base form (more mind control evidence)

-Shintani continues to impress with colors and posture. So loose and effortless. It's so good.