Dragon Ball (Warning: Untagged Spoilers)

[Meta77]

*looks around* i mean ive been listening to anime music for near 27 years and think the song fits. its not so much a character theme as much of a climax final fight song. Crazy action.

[GentlemanX]

I like the full version more than what we hear in the trailer. I can't picture it being used in the movie itself though. It'll be a great credits song though.

[Marcello]

5 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Kale is trash tho.

Sure, but Caulifla isn't. She's the best.

5 hours ago, Meta77 said:

*looks around* i mean ive been listening to anime music for near 27 years and think the song fits. its not so much a character theme as much of a climax final fight song. Crazy action.

That would make it even worse to me.

[Sonic Fan J]

I like it myself honestly. Listening to it just somehow feels right to me. Then there is that English line late in the song about breaking the ice which I find kind of a nice touch both thematically with the fight starting in the snow fields and how Saiyans break the ice by picking a fight. What better way for a warrior race to start a conversation, or break the ice,  than with a fist to the face 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

So uh, Reddit has a more or less accurate version of what’s in Broly so if you’re trying to avoid spoilers, be careful, because movie details are out there now.

That said, I don’t mind them. There’s neat details, including a character supposedly getting a brief mention, although it might be fake. Read at your own risk.

Spoiler

According to Reddit, Cooler apparently gets a canon reference when someone brings him up to Frieza. In fact, it seems it’s Cooler’s height and Frieza’s in comparison which is why Frieza wants to make a wish with the Dragon Balls.

 

[Harkofthewaa]

Spoiler

5 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

According to Reddit, Cooler apparently gets a canon reference when someone brings him up to Frieza. In fact, it seems it’s Cooler’s height and Frieza’s in comparison which is why Frieza wants to make a wish with the Dragon Balls.

 So he wants to pull a Commander Red? That seems to be a bit out of character considering his end goal on Namek. Get immortality first, then worry about growing a few inches.

 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

1 minute ago, Harkofthewaa said:

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 So he wants to pull a Commander Red? That seems to be a bit out of character considering his end goal on Namek. Get immortality first, then worry about growing a few inches.

 

Spoiler

The details do say that it only MIGHT be why Frieza is after the DBs. However, I think apart of it is he wants to use Broly as a weapon to kill Goku and Vegeta as well, so the DBs might just be a factor in that.

Plus, since he just came back from the dead, it would make sense that immortality isn’t as big as a concern for him any further.

 

[ThePrinceOfSaiyans]

Honestly, this movie sounds like a 6/10 experience based on the spoilers I read, which is to say, it's line with the the latter 2 Broli movies in the original run of the series. 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

2 minutes ago, ThePrinceOfSaiyans said:

Honestly, this movie sounds like a 6/10 experience based on the spoilers I read, which is to say, it's line with the the latter 2 Broli movies in the original run of the series. 

Not really. From the topic I read on Reddit, there's quite a lot to suggest it's in fact possibly the best DB movie yet. It's absolutely nowhere near the standard of Second Coming, or the total atrocity that is Bio-Broly. 

[ThePrinceOfSaiyans]

Well, that's great for those people, but it sounds like unoriginal fan pandering that's all spectacle and almost no substance. 

[Ratcicle King]

Spoiler

I REALLY like the idea of Freeza himself collecting the Dragon Balls just to wish to be a bit taller. It sounds perfect in line with the more zany nature of Super, where they're aware they can just collect these magic wishing orbs every once in a while and wish whatever the hell they want.

Even better that this basically kickstarts the Broly plot.

I repeat, Broly kicks everyone's asses, including Freeza's, because the Emperor of the goddamn Universe wanted to be a foot taller, while everyone else thought he was planning something horrible.

Also rip Frost. With Cooler around, he's double irrelevant.

 

[ThePrinceOfSaiyans]

1 minute ago, Ratcicle King said:

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I REALLY like the idea of Freeza himself collecting the Dragon Balls just to wish to be a bit taller. It sounds perfect in line with the more zany nature of Super, where they're aware they can just collect these magic wishing orbs every once in a while and wish whatever the hell they want.

Even better that this basically kickstarts the Broly plot.

I repeat, Broly kicks everyone's asses, including Freeza's, because the Emperor of the goddamn Universe wanted to be a foot taller, while everyone else thought he was planning something horrible.

Also rip Frost. With Cooler around, he's double irrelevant.

 

*Kuririn's voice*: Commander Red did it.

[Ratcicle King]

I know, and that's just another layer of hilarity.

[ThePrinceOfSaiyans]

I see it as unoriginal, and by extension boring, but you do you.

[Meta77]

It sounds interesting and better than the horrid old movies of broly just saying kakorot every few seconds and just face palming everyone and then being beat by a punch to the gut yea yea cut when a baby

[Ryannumber1gamer]

39 minutes ago, ThePrinceOfSaiyans said:

Well, that's great for those people, but it sounds like unoriginal fan pandering that's all spectacle and almost no substance. 

Well for one, all of the sources on Reddit are saying Broly actually has a good backstory, good motivation for what he's doing, actually has meaningful connections to others instead of just being a giant fucking baby who just screams Kakarot because Goku cried a lot as a child, and overall is fifty times better than anything we've seen before from Broly, and ending spoilers: 

Spoiler

Oh and by the end of the movie, if the Reddit post is true, Broly and Goku even share a quiet scene together as the ending of the movie.

There's a giant difference between just shoving things in for the sake of fan service, and actually taking something the fandom likes and rework it into something with meaning, connection, and improvement over the original. Which for the non-canon elements that were made canon in this film, I've been hearing they are far bigger improvements than what was original presented, other than the Minus stuff which I haven't heard much about. In short, it sounds like Toriyama actually made a good amount of effort in making the reworked elements and characters actually feel better than just "OH MAH GOD THERE'S THAT POPULAR CHARACTER". 

41 minutes ago, Ratcicle King said:

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I REALLY like the idea of Freeza himself collecting the Dragon Balls just to wish to be a bit taller. It sounds perfect in line with the more zany nature of Super, where they're aware they can just collect these magic wishing orbs every once in a while and wish whatever the hell they want.

Even better that this basically kickstarts the Broly plot.

I repeat, Broly kicks everyone's asses, including Freeza's, because the Emperor of the goddamn Universe wanted to be a foot taller, while everyone else thought he was planning something horrible.

Also rip Frost. With Cooler around, he's double irrelevant.

 

Spoiler

Absolutely agreed IMO. Frieza might be an vengeful space tyrant, but there's always been one, and I mean one defining trait of his as well. He's a petty spiteful prick. I literally wouldn't put it past him to literally just wish he was taller than Cooler just so he can one-up Cooler (who in the movies, the two were established as having a rivalry and dislike for each other iirc, with Cooler only avenging Frieza and Cold out of obligation more than anything).

Like let's keep in mind, this is the same spiteful idiot who decided it was a good idea to not only try to send a ki blast at Goku when he was already cut in half and barely surviving because Goku lent him some energy, not only did he immediately go to earth as a cyborg to try get some spiteful payback at Goku for his last defeat, and most importantly - the fact Resurrection F even points out that Frieza after being revived could very easily just go off and rule his empire now, especially with Cold dead, and strengthen his grip on the universe, and what does Frieza immediately think to do? "Let's go to Earth for some Goku payback!" and what is the end result? Oh right, Frieza's empire being nearly completely erased, Frieza being killed by Goku yet again, and no hope of his minions reviving him again. 

Frieza's inherit character is built as a spoilt petty child who can't deal with reasoning and logic. He would do something so ridiculously spiteful because hey, not only can he have Broly kill Goku and Vegeta once and for all, but he can also spite his big brother too!

 

[DiamondX]

Not to be the guy to take the fun away, but can't Freeza just invent a transformstion which makes him taller like his second form?

We know that he can make it look however he wants, so why not just do that?

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Just now, DiamondX said:

 

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Not to be the guy to take the fun away, but can't Freeza just invent a transformstion which makes him taller like his second form?

We know that he can make it look however he wants, so why not just do that?

 

 

Spoiler

Pretty sure Frieza can't just make up transformations on the spot for him to make use of. His golden form seems to be a natural form that he managed to reach himself through training and a natural transformation for his mutated race. Not only would his second form heavily limit the amount of power he can use (to the point Goku and Vegeta could likely steamroll him in a fight) but on top of that, Frieza is naturally small, while Cold and Cooler are naturally taller (I believe Cooler is still taller than FF Frieza for example), so even if Frieza hypothetically did that, Cooler would likely just mock him for needing to make use of an unnatural form to achieve a taller height. Not to mention Final Form Cooler would almost definitely still outmatch Second Form Frieza in height.

 

[DiamondX]

9 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

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Pretty sure Frieza can't just make up transformations on the spot for him to make use of. His golden form seems to be a natural form that he managed to reach himself through training and a natural transformation for his mutated race. Not only would his second form heavily limit the amount of power he can use (to the point Goku and Vegeta could likely steamroll him in a fight) but on top of that, Frieza is naturally small, while Cold and Cooler are naturally taller (I believe Cooler is still taller than FF Frieza for example), so even if Frieza hypothetically did that, Cooler would likely just mock him for needing to make use of an unnatural form to achieve a taller height. Not to mention Final Form Cooler would almost definitely still outmatch Second Form Frieza in height.

 

True. You're right. Also, was it mentioned

if it gets granted?

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Update on things - there's now a full description of the movie on Reddit: 

Spoiler

Frieza's wish definitely seems to be height alteration. It's meant to contrast with Bulma wanting to wish to be five years younger. It's pointed out in the movie that it's gotten ridiculous that Frieza's given up his wish of immortality so instead he wants to go for height instead.

Also, if you thought Frieza's beating in the ToP was bad, it's implied Broly destroys the fuck out of him for a full hour because it takes Goku and Vegeta three attempts to perform the fusion dance, each one requiring 30 minutes to defuse.

Cooler is also not mentioned, it being a mis-translation apparently. 

@DiamondX - Your concern is mentioned specifically - Frieza is pointed out that he can use his second form, but he says he wants to have his final form with additional growth.

 

[ThePrinceOfSaiyans]

I wouldn't call any of this an improvement. Broli worked in his debut film because he was a weapon, a weapon used by Paragus to take revenge on the son of the man who attempted to destroy him and his son. Broli isn't meant to be a sympathetic character. He's the god damn Legendary Super Saiyan, which was described as the strongest warrior in the universe, a blood lusting killing machine more in line with the nature of the Saiyans described in the Saiyan arc. Broli and Paragus work as a pair. They play off each other in ways that feel appropriate with the lore and what they went through. This is why other Broli movies don't work as well, and making Broli a sympathetic character doesn't make him better, it just makes him different.

Also, I never had a problem with Goku being the catalyst for Broli freeing himself from his father's control because there is a scientific basis for such a reaction. Experiences you have as a child can have a profound impact on how you react to the same experience later in life. Baby Goku causing baby Broli distress would likely lead to such a reaction, believe it or not. What's more, it's just amusing that baby Goku crying would have such an impact on the almighty Legendary Super Saiyan. It's honestly really Toriyama in a way. 

[DiamondX]

About the 3 fusion dance attempts, 2 are failed, with the failures being skinny Gogeta and...

He's back.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Also: 

Spoiler

Gogeta's forms are base, SSJ, and SSB.

 

8 minutes ago, ThePrinceOfSaiyans said:

I wouldn't call any of this an improvement. Broli worked in his debut film because he was a weapon, a weapon used by Paragus to take revenge on the son of the man who attempted to destroy him and his son. Broli isn't meant to be a sympathetic character. He's the god damn Legendary Super Saiyan, which was described as the strongest warrior in the universe, a blood lusting killing machine more in line with the nature of the Saiyans described in the Saiyan arc. Broli and Paragus work as a pair. They play off each other in ways that feel appropriate with the lore and what they went through. This is why other Broli movies don't work as well, and making Broli a sympathetic character doesn't make him better, it just makes him different.

Also, I never had a problem with Goku being the catalyst for Broli freeing himself from his father's control because there is a scientific basis for such a reaction. Experiences you have as a child can have a profound impact on how you react to the same experience later in life. Baby Goku causing baby Broli distress would likely lead to such a reaction, believe it or not. What's more, it's just amusing that baby Goku crying would have such an impact on the almighty Legendary Super Saiyan. It's honestly really Toriyama in a way. 

I absolutely disagree. Broly is up there with Fusion Reborn and Cooler as my favourite DBZ movies, but Broly himself is as fucking boring as a piece of sand paper. He's a raging hulking monster that does nothing but scream bloody murder about Goku crying. If you think it worked because he was a weapon, that's fine, but that's the exact reason why myself, and many others absolutely dislike Broly as a character. Because he was designed with no personality in sight, with no motivations in sight, with nothing to him in sight. He's cool with how powerful he is, the general lore that's there for him as the LSSJ, and his ki attacks and such, but other than that, there is nothing to him. He's comparable to Jiren because of that exact reason.

That's also why Second Coming and Bio-Broly suck even more. Because they tried to shoe-horn Broly back into two more movies and now we didn't even have the tight backstory of Paragus to hold things together, and granted even then, it was barely much in the original Broly movie. It's the literal definition of what you said, all spectacle, no substance. 

And even on top of that, that's still somewhat unfair to what you said. You said that this doesn't make him better, it makes him different. Except what makes him different is a legitimate attempt to keep the cool factor and general basis of why people liked Broly, and then try to actually give him something resembling a personality and motive instead of being nothing more than a giant wall that continually does nothing but punch Goku and co harder til Deus Ex Machina move pops out of nowhere to put him down once and for all.

What Toriyama is trying to do with the Broly movie is the literal definition of trying to add substance and character to something that was absolutely as bare-bones as possible, and that's a hell of a lot more commendable than what Second Coming and Bio-Broly did by just bringing him back as the same boring wall that hits others and can't be damaged until random super move pops out of nowhere to finish him off once and for all.

[ThePrinceOfSaiyans]

"Broli doesn't have a character."

Yes, that's the point. He's a killing machine, a force of nature as the legends described. If you don't like that, fine, but it's consistent with the lore.

[-Robin-]

What, the same lore that said that the Super Saiyan state could only be achieved as a Great Ape? The lore that said the power was so great that he blew up the planet he was on unintentionally? Did you think Goku becoming one without going Great Ape was contrary to lore? 

Legends get exacerbated. Nothing concrete saying you can’t become a Super Saiyan without sacrificing your identity. The exact opposite happened four times before the Broly movie.