Dragon Ball (Warning: Untagged Spoilers)

[Ratcicle King]

Well the other leaks already showed that. If anything, Whis' OTHER suggestion during their RoF training will also be put to use. Vegeta and Goku will have to take Jiren out together, no fusion, no quick team up. A full on coordinated fight.

When Arinaza was revealed in Heroes, they also revealed another card which caught my attention

UI Goku and SSJB Vegeta combining forces.

 

[Tani Coyote]

You know...

This makes me feel like the Universe 9 fight at the very start was meant to be foreshadowing.

It not only established that Vegeta and Goku can do great with teamwork, but also the capacity of a well-coordinated team attack in bringing down a much stronger opponent.

Wouldn't it be something if Vegeta, Gohan and Goku ended up doing their own version of the Dangers' Triangle against Jiren? Ahahahaha.

[DiamondX]

>"without even being able to put up a decent fight"

Yeah, Vegeta fans won't be happy.

 

I think 17 will still be around next episode.

[Marcello]

2 minutes ago, DiamondX said:

>"without even being able to put up a decent fight"

Yeah, Vegeta fans won't be happy.

 

Why? That sounds like typical Vegeta.

[Tani Coyote]

So, recap. I've adjusted the dates back one day for US viewers.

Jan. 6 - 122: Just Vegeta fighting Jiren with some Dyspo vs Frieza. 7 minutes left at the end of the episode.

Jan. 13 - 123: Goku against Jiren. 17 grabs Toppo with the idea Gohan can KO them both, but Gohan hesitates and Toppo escapes. 17 eliminated possibly? Presumably 6 minutes left.

Jan. 20 - 124: Goku and Vegeta teamed up against Jiren. Gohan helps Frieza against Dyspo. Dyspo and Gohan possibly eliminated? Presumably 4 minutes left at the end of the episode.

Jan. 27 - 125: Toppo gets a huge power up? Presumably 3 minutes left at the end of the episode.

Feb. 3 - 126: ???. Presumably 1 minute left at the end of the episode.

Feb. 10 - 127: ???. End of the Tournament.

Feb 17 - 128. Presumably when we'll find out the final fate of the multiverse.

[Pawn]

Damn it Gohan. This hesitation had better be redeemed.

It's not even like you'd be killing 17. Jeez.

[DiamondX]

Wait.

Goku vs Jiren will be shorter than Goku vs Freeza at this point.

Wow.

[Tani Coyote]

Trivia: If the Tournament of Power ends on February 10th, it's ending on the one year anniversary (barring one day, but it's essentially the same day) of the first episode of the Zen Exhibition Match, which aired on February 11th, 2017.

I kind of wonder if they may have planned that?

5 minutes ago, DiamondX said:

Wait.

Goku vs Jiren will be shorter than Goku vs Freeza at this point.

Wow.

While they could dilute the time remaining to an insane seconds per episode, I think between the one hour special and all these episodes, we've seen enough of Jiren to see him gone.

He doesn't even have the charm Frieza or Cell have, on top of everything else. As far as Super antagonists go, he's also incredibly boring compared to Zamasu or Beerus or Champa or Hit or any of them really.

[DiamondX]

I know the manga lokes to change the characters a bit, but the difference with Jiren is insane.

For example, while in the anime Black and Zamasu worked together as allies, the manga mads Black the leader with Zamasu being his pawn, even making Black thinking about killing Zamasu when Zamasu thought about becoming good.

They made Jiren in the anime an edgy guy who barely talks while in the manga he is peaceful and has a wish.

[Tani Coyote]

Honestly it seems like everyone is better in the manga. Even Roh of all people is. I'd say even Sidra is, too, in that instead of being too timid to destroy anything, he just gets too buried in his calculations to do the deed (which makes it sad, since his equations give him the best planets to destroy, comparable to how Universe 5's excellent God of Destruction does his work).

I'm actually kind of excited to see how the Tournament plays out in the manga, considering they make a fair number of welcome changes.

It isn't looking too good for Gowasu fans. If Rumshi picks meatheads like in the anime, Universe 10 is probably the first to go in that timeline. A lot of Universe 9's tactical disadvantages have been removed.

[Pawn]

Eh, I think the anime did a much better job of characterising Black and Zamasu. Black retained his flamboyance and much of his fighting style when he stole Goku's body, creating a more interesting mix of Saiyan and Kaioshin. The bond and cooperation between the two stands out among villains as well, while still living up to their narcissism since they are the same being originally.

I found Toyotaro's versions far more cliche and disappointing.

[Ratcicle King]

24 minutes ago, DiamondX said:

I know the manga lokes to change the characters a bit, but the difference with Jiren is insane.

For example, while in the anime Black and Zamasu worked together as allies, the manga mads Black the leader with Zamasu being his pawn, even making Black thinking about killing Zamasu when Zamasu thought about becoming good.

To be fair, Black in the anime was basically the lead on the Zero Mortal Plan, they just had a better synchrony and team work, unlike the manga, where it was hilariously shown that even Zamasu doesn't like Zamasu very much, as for all their bravado, they were at each other's throats the moment shit goes south.

The anime DID have a couple of scenes implying Black is submissive to Zamasu, however, those were before the reveal of his identity, thus serving to just fuel the mystery, once he's revealed as the mastermind, he's the main fight until they fuse.

10 minutes ago, 11 Pawns-a-Piping said:

Eh, I think the anime did a much better job of characterising Black and Zamasu. Black retained his flamboyance and much of his fighting style when he stole Goku's body, creating a more interesting mix of Saiyan and Kaioshin. The bond and cooperation between the two stands out among villains as well, while still living up to their narcissism since they are the same being originally.

I found Toyotaro's versions far more cliche and disappointing.

This

Manga Black was just a brute, and kept some of Zamasu's worst traits, while in the anime, not only he's a fighting narcissist, but it's heavily implied the saiyan DNA is messing with Zamasu, making a much more interesting character.

[DiamondX]

I'm not saying I like manga Black more. I don't (I like Zamasu more though since he kept a little bit of sanity)

It's just wierd how the TOEI wirters and Toyotaro have such different ideas over the same character.

[Ratcicle King]

From what I gathered, Toriyama gives the plot outlines for both Toei and Toyo, and just supervises once in a while certain moments and decisions, basically, he gives the introduction, key moments and end goal, what happens in between is up to Toei's and Toyo's interpretations, hence the big differences in the Future Trunks arc.

As for Jiren. Well, Toppo in the manga was introduced as a GoD, they're just now about to reveal that in the anime, as it's becoming relevant. It's how it's been in Anime!Super for a while now, it's not that the motivations/backstories don't exist on both anime and the manga, it's that the manga approaches that by introducing everything with the character, while Toei keeps it hidden until it's actually relevant to the plot. Toppo in the manga was said to be a GoD candidate, but that was just a random moment that had no bearing in the plot outside of ''this guy is pretty damn strong''. Now in the anime, said information will be revealed as it will come into play, instead of being an informed attribute.

[Tani Coyote]

First part of the trailer is all about the Tournament of Power. All 8 Gods are playable (as well as the 4 Gods from the exempt universes), and we know who the designated champions of each universe are, if that wasn't obvious enough already.

15 of the 16 characters depicted in that preview image are shown off in gameplay. Bergamo is conspicuously absent.

I wonder if there's any particular reason (implementing his giant ability or something?) or if they just felt like writing him off as unimportant.

Considering Obuni and Catopesra got in, that makes me mad to be honest, haha.

[MightyRay]

I kind of find it funny that Ganos is looking over his shoulder while the others are looking at the viewer. Like he's almost ready to punch someone who dares grabs his hat or something.

[Ratcicle King]

I love how the fighter they picked for U3 isn't Arinaza, you know, their actual strongest fighter, but the meme boi himself, Katopesla

[Tani Coyote]

50 minutes ago, Mightyray said:

I kind of find it funny that Ganos is looking over his shoulder while the others are looking at the viewer. Like he's almost ready to punch someone who dares grabs his hat or something.

It's only appropriate the Champion of Universe 4 be planning an underhanded sneak attack in the promotional artwork of all things :v

8 minutes ago, Ratcicle King said:

I love how the fighter they picked for U3 isn't Arinaza, you know, their actual strongest fighter, but the meme boi himself, Katopesla

I guess as "universal police officer," he fit the bill of a heroic champion better. Anilaza is just a drooling monster.

And indeed, I'm getting a Universe 9 vibe from Catopesra. He's probably extremely strong by Universe 3 standards, but falls short compared to Plot Armor clad universes like 7.

[Ratcicle King]

I feel like the big difference between other universes an U7 is just that, well, their gods are more active, even if they do a shitty job. That means the bigger threats aren't around thanks to the GoDs cleaning up, so the strongest fighters of their universes don't have much challenge to force them into getting stronger.

Meanwhile, U7 had to deal with the threats on their own, which meant not only the damage is almost irreversible(only 27 planets with inteligent life in them) but also means their strongest fighters are REALLY FUCKING STRONG as they had to rise up to the challenge Beerus couldn't be arsed to take care off.

Champa WOULD be a similar case, but Frost keeping a facade, aka, avoiding destroying planets for shits and giggles, and the saiyans being benevolent warriors(not to mention having REALLY strong bases thanks to the lack of transformations) probably gave his universe a better fighting chance even without him around.

[Tani Coyote]

That would seem to be the case, but then you have the powerful warriors of Universe 11 despite its active Gods, while Universe 9 is a hellhole because its God of Destruction is basically useless.

Adversity certainly is a factor, though.

Although the Devil is in the details. It's very possible Universe 9 would have fighters on par with Universe 7's if not for the Trio de Dangers. Why? Their comments imply they've killed all the powerful fighters by teaming up against them, rather than undergoing power ups. This is a stark contrast to Goku, who has turned many of his enemies into allies, many of whom are now fighting with him in the Tournament. The Trio accepted killing your enemies as the way of doing things, but Goku did not; this is ultimately the key difference in their fates, all things considered. Remember, this is the guy who had every reason to kill Vegeta and Frieza, opting not to each time.

Also an obligatory remark that Saiyans frankly reek of Social Darwinism. They have genes nobody else does, so they get to keep powering up and be the cool ones who lord over everyone else.

I'm quite happy Super is introducing alien species who can give Saiyans a run for their money at least. It's high time they get knocked off their cosmic pedestal.

[-Robin-]

Technically, Katoplesa's forms give him a x300 multiplier to power, speed, defense, or any combination of the three, while Super Saiyan is "only" a x50 multiplier of everything, SSJ2 is x100, and SSJ3 is x200, according to Daizenshuu sources. He can outshine Super Saiyan multipliers on a dime.

 

He has the ability to min-max himself ridiculously, and that translates well in a game combat format. He's a better fit than Aniraza.

 

 

[Ratcicle King]

7 minutes ago, Lord Basil (Ogilvie) said:

That would seem to be the case, but then you have the powerful warriors of Universe 11 despite its active Gods, while Universe 9 is a hellhole because its God of Destruction is basically useless.

To be fair, out of 10, only three Pride Troopers are strong, at least one of them having received SOME training from a GoD. Jiren's a special case since we've yet to find out WHY he's so strong, while Dyspo is probably a mutant like Freeza and the Ginyu force.

Meanwhile, U7 has 3 members of a race that has a genetic cheat code, two humans enhanced to be unstoppable world enders, 4 warriors with average strenght, but skilled enough from their years of training to be actual threats, and a monster with infinite evolving potential.

Another thing to keep in mind, the Pride Troopers being all about justice and extremes, would probably never accept working with their enemies, meanwhile, half the powerhouses of U7 were basically criminals who joined forces with the heroes out of desperation, once again showcasing how them being forced to fend for themselves led to such a strong team.

[Tani Coyote]

7 minutes ago, Ratcicle King said:

To be fair, out of 10, only three Pride Troopers are strong, at least one of them having received SOME training from a GoD. Jiren's a special case since we've yet to find out WHY he's so strong, while Dyspo is probably a mutant like Freeza and the Ginyu force.

Meanwhile, U7 has 3 members of a race that has a genetic cheat code, two humans enhanced to be unstoppable world enders, 4 warriors with average strenght, but skilled enough from their years of training to be actual threats, and a monster with infinite evolving potential.

Another thing to keep in mind, the Pride Troopers being all about justice and extremes, would probably never accept working with their enemies, meanwhile, half the powerhouses of U7 were basically criminals who joined forces with the heroes out of desperation, once again showcasing how them being forced to fend for themselves led to such a strong team.

Plot Armor also hangs ridiculously over this whole thing, unfortunately.

The Tournament of Power is more to have Universe 7 show off than an actual Tournament for survival.

It explains why they went with 10 fighters per universe when 3 or 5 could have worked just as well. They wanted to give fanservice to fans of Roshi, Krillin, etc. by letting them dispose of fodder, when such characters have become fodder themselves otherwise within story arcs.

This is perhaps best seen in the way Krillin was still able to give Frieza and Cell a hard time, if only for a short moment. With Majin Buu, he got eaten within seconds.

[Ratcicle King]

To be fair, giving the old crew some time to shine isn't exactly BAD, and even before the ToP began, we all kinda knew some universes would become fodder, because 80 characters is just too much to handle. And even then we had some nice subplots and surprises thrown here and there, both for U7 or the enemy universe. But I will admit the execution did have problems sometimes.

[Tani Coyote]

The arc probably would have benefited if the fake spoiler that falling fighters get Erased immediately rather than appearing in the stands held true. Even if you win, you still lose. Imagine how much stronger the Frost hate would have been if Krillin was disintegrated mere seconds after he managed to KO Majora.

We already know Universe 7 is coming out on top, so with no ill effects from eliminations, the only cost is "aww man, my favorite character can't own people anymore."