Dragon Ball (Warning: Untagged Spoilers)

[Meta77]

if he was dissented in that fact i think he would have said it earlier like he did when he stated he was getting serious. Cause he turns around and says congrats on beating him. Now watch this with a smirk. As he then powers up.

[Ratcicle King]

He was congratulating them but at the same time throwing shade at Toppo.

Notice he flat out says ''You became stronger without giving up anything'', he's congratulating them on their willpower and respect, while almost stealth insulting Toppo for distrusting his own power.

[Tani Coyote]

I'm actually kind of looking forward to 17's elimination because I'm curious how Beerus will react.

In this arc, he's been shown to be appreciating the mortals beneath him far more than ever before. Maybe this is another goal of the Tournament of Power: make the Gods of Destruction stop being overly indifferent and scornful of the people beneath them. After all, it is the mortals who will save a God of Destruction's bacon, not the God's own raw power. Some indifference is a part of the job, yes, but a lot of them just do not exercise due care in making sure they do the best job possible for their universe. It is, after all, indifference towards the position of mortals that has caused most universes to end up in this Tournament in the first place.

Though the appreciation for mortals is best seen in how Beerus corrected himself, calling Gohan by name for a change instead of "Goku's son." It's a step above asking what Roshi's name was.

1 hour ago, Ratcicle King said:

I think Jiren's disappointment is specifically at Toppo. Let's remember he's been said to believe in two things above all: Justice and pride in one's power.

It did seem kind of like he was also insulting Dyspo, though, was the thing, since Dyspo was doing the talking.

[Ratcicle King]

Dyspo was carrying Toppo, so that's probably why it looked like Jiren directed them at both. But considering he literally threw shade at Toppo not even a minute after the insult, it's clear which one of the two got Jiren upset.

[Cass]

Toppo being eliminated not long after receiving his fancy God power up is pretty underwhelming. I was starting to take an interest in what he could do.

 

Definitely approve of Vegeta getting a win on the board, though.

[Pawn]

That episode was such a disappointment. While Vegeta's fight didn't suffer from reused animation like Gohan vs Dyspo, the whole thing was similarly rushed. Vegeta should have transformed here when he thought of his family and Cabba, rather than doing it vs Jiren. It didn't serve much purpose to have him fighting Jiren alongside Goku when they've made no progress anyway.

To add to that, poor Toppo feels unfairly tossed aside. I understand his failure to eliminate Freeza, as there is a benefit to keeping that character's plot going. But to have him start fighting again seconds after a massive beatdown from a GoD is just unbelievable.

And 17? Why is he still in? Toppo should have at least thrown him out. I can't see 17 managing to achieve anything significant against Jiren, so why? Is it just for the merchandise? But even then, he's done enough to be liked now. Toppo playing around with him makes no sense with only minutes left of the tournament. Now we're supposed to believe that he can affect the battle with Jiren? The android didn't hold a candle to Base Toppo, never mind GoD Toppo, never mind Suppressed Jiren, and certainly never mind Full Power Jiren.

 

And speaking of Jiren: fuck you. You have no right to be talking down to Toppo when you could have ended the fight with U7 a hundred times by now. At least Toppo had a hard decision to make. You could have powered up at any fucking time. (Sorry, I've come to like Toppo a bit and Jiren is becoming less likable every episode)

[Vec]

I like the fact that 17 is still in. I like how much he matured from the cocky brat to a more calm and calculating person. It's a shame he won't be the MVP because he did a lot of cool stuff during the tournament.

[Pawn]

32 minutes ago, Ice Vec said:

I like the fact that 17 is still in. I like how much he matured from the cocky brat to a more calm and calculating person. It's a shame he won't be the MVP because he did a lot of cool stuff during the tournament.

Him being in still could have worked for me had he been protected or unconscious for a while and forgotten about, but to still be around after attempting to dodge a GoD alone? Nope. Not buying it. And Freeza should have stayed down. Why did they bother putting him in just to have him disappear again? Somehow the writers have both wasted time and rushed things at once.

[Meta77]

I like howp people underestimate frieza. While a villian and he does lose he is still a interesting character who we don't know how strong he can become. Remember in z he was simply a prodigy. During his fight with goku that was literally just on a whim techniques. He never trained so the entire time he was just oing at it. His golden form was not fully mastered and goku remarked had he trained he may have beat him but frieza is just to proud. I'd love to see frieza actually train

[Ratcicle King]

Welp there we go, this is pretty straightforward.

Spoiler

UI being on 129 gives us AT LEAST 2 episodes for the final battle, which I do hope they use well. The 1 Hour Special showed they can at the very least inject all their effort in 2 episodes and not have the entire production break down, hope for the same here, just for the sake of the last episode not being a goddamn mess

 

[DiamondX]

Android 17 is most likely gonna lose this week and Vegeta is sure to lose next week.

 

I'm not sure I like the idea of Goku mastering UI so fast (it didn't take him even an hour).

[Ratcicle King]

He has no choice, honestly, plus it's been said he's having an easier time to go with the flow, so at this point he just needs a trigger to get the hang of the ''attacking without thinking'' problem.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Making Vegeta lose and just having Goku miraculously learn Ultra Instinct to beat Jiren seems really fucking lazy as an ending to me. Like they spent from Resurrection F building up that Goku and Vegeta would have to learn to swallow their pride and work as a team to overcome tough enemies, and with Vegeta getting a new form, and the new ending theme even implying this would be the case....but nah suddenly Vegeta gets shafted, gets his ass kicked and Goku wins with a new form/last minute gambit again. 

[DiamondX]

Vegeta is not shafted.

First off, he got a new form out of nowhere.

Second, the guy even gets to do a second Final Explosion and doesn't even die.

I'd say Vegeta got a pretty nice treatment these weeks considering he's not the main character.

 

Second, reminder that the Super is ending announcement came out of nowhere. It is possible that the staff didn't know that until recently and they had to change the episodes to make sure the tournament ends by then.

[Ratcicle King]

Considering we all assumed Vegeta would be out by 122 once he challenged Jiren, which would've been the logical conclusion, guy got it pretty good. He lasted an extra 7 episodes, got a new form, he and Goku finally teamed up on their own free will, had several moments showcasing how much he cared, defeated a god of destruction while also showing a big parallel to his entire character arc in the franchise, and finally, lasted all but two episodes into the final battle.

Him being shafted would imply he didn't get anything from it other than being humiliated. Which is far from the truth. 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

1 minute ago, DiamondX the Fighter said:

Vegeta is not shafted.

First off, he got a new form out of nowhere.

Second, the guy even gets to do a second Final Explosion and doesn't even die.

I'd say Vegeta got a pretty nice treatment these weeks considering he's not the main character.

 

Second, reminder that the Super is ending announcement came out of nowhere. It is possible that the staff didn't know that until recently and they had to change the episodes to make sure the tournament ends by then.

You don't just suddenly get a "ending announcement", that's something you're told about well in advance, especially since it's likely Super staff will be moving to the new DB movie. This was well planned in advance.

and yes, he did get shafted, because he did ALL of that, only to now randomly get ringed out so Goku can take the spotlight with UI again which he randomly masters in a matter of minutes. As much as I like Vegito and that particular fight, this reeks of the same shit he got hit with in Z. We spend a long time building up his powerup, Gohan finally delivers the biggest beatdown on Buu, and then randomly things go to hell and Gohan gets shafted so Goku and Vegeta can take the spotlight.

[DiamondX]

It's not randomly. The guy used all his Ki to eliminate Toppo. The only reason why he's still able to transform is most likely Goku giving him some energy.

From what we hear Goku is getting a big beatdown this week and Vegeta is gonna fight 1v1 against Jiren, who is now unleashing his true power.

I'd say it's a great way to kick Vegeta off.

[Ratcicle King]

Goku is the main protagonist in Super, yes, he shares the spotlight with Vegeta, Bulma and other characters, however it's still mostly his story. The ToP, as much as other characters are involved, is focused entirely on Goku, he asked for this, he wanted this, and thanks to it, he reached his own untapped potential. Vegeta on the other hand was ready to stop training to be a family man now that Bra is born, he's only fighting to protect his family and friends, that gives him some great character moments, but he's not a center piece in this tournament.

And we don't even know HOW he'll get ringed out or how Goku will attain UI yet, heck, even if Goku just masters it, Vegeta still did the exact same thing, he just thought of Cabba and instant new form, which is not only strong enough to beat a GoD, but already comes mastered, as Vegeta can turn in and out of it anytime he wants and never tires of it, unlike UI, which almost knocks Goku out everytime he uses it.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

3 minutes ago, DiamondX the Fighter said:

It's not randomly. The guy used all his Ki to eliminate Toppo. The only reason why he's still able to transform is most likely Goku giving him some energy.

From what we hear Goku is getting a big beatdown this week and Vegeta is gonna fight 1v1 against Jiren, who is now unleashing his true power.

I'd say it's a great way to kick Vegeta off.

That's not really the point, sure Gohan got cocky and Buu absorbed Gotenks/Piccolo. That didn't make it any more of an ass pull of how Goku got his hero role back again.

Vegeta gets a new form and Goku/Vegeta finally meeting their match and needing to fight together was foreshadowed for THE ENTIRETY OF THE SHOW PRETTY MUCH. What on earth was the point of giving Vegeta a form to rival UI, establishing UI having a weakness that Vegeta can potentially help, establishing the two fighting together to the point the ending theme even features the two in their new forms as the final shot, and for what? So Goku randomly goes UI, masters it, and gives us the basic "new form beats new villain" ending we were all expecting and has been done to death in this show before with Frieza, Cell, Hit, and so on so forth?

[DiamondX]

Actually, Goku and Vegeta worked together these episodes. It wasn't the main focus, but they were fighting together against Jiren.

And as Ratcicle said, Vegeta isn't even the center of the tournament. He isn't the most important one here. And yet, he got a lot of great moments. 

[Wraith]

Even if Vegeta isn't the "main character" his moments in this arc were the best. Goku taking licks from Jiren and randomly getting power ups hasn't been nearly as exciting for me as watching Vegeta break through driven by his friends and family. He pretty much is the emotional hook of the arc for me.

It's annoying if the final battle really is just Goku mastering his new asspull and beating Jiren, but it's not that surprising. This arc has basically been focusing on Goku for obligatory reasons while they let the more interesting characters and plotlines fall by the wayside.

[Ratcicle King]

9 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

What on earth was the point of giving Vegeta a form to rival UI

It doesn't. It's evenly matched with SSBKK, which is still severely underpowered compared to UI.

10 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

establishing UI having a weakness that Vegeta can potentially help

UI doesn't have a weakness, Goku's just not used to it yet. Said weakness is that he can't attack without thinking, meaning his attacks come off weaker than they should. Vegeta's new form wouldn't help, seeing as his strongest attack would still be no match for Jiren.

11 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

establishing the two fighting together to the point the ending theme even features the two in their new forms as the final shot

It was just showing off the new forms, nothing there really implied they'd be fighting together.

12 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

and gives us the basic "new form beats new villain" ending we were all expecting and has been done to death in this show before with Frieza, Cell, Hit, and so on so forth?

Except that so far, Goku has yet to defeat an arc villain.

He never defeated Vegeta in Z, Freeza survived all the punishment Goku threw at him and would've won had Goku not learned Instant Transmission/Trunks had shown up to prevent him from destroying the earth, Cell killed Goku and Gohan had to finish him off, Goku needed the help of literally everyone available to power the one attack capable of stopping Kid Buu, and even then needed a full heal to finish him off. As for Super, he lost to Beerus, Freeza once again would've won had it not been for some miraculous convenience on the protagonist's side, Hit and Goku were even until Goku gave up because he realized Hit was holding back, and  Black and Zamasu flat out won.

Vegeta obtained what he wanted. He got stronger on his own without sacrificing his character, he matched a GoD without needing UI, and proved he can still get stronger. Meanwhile Goku, while still stronger thanks to UI, has yet to master this technique that is literally the culmination of his entire character, and have a proper victory over the antagonist.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

2 minutes ago, Ratcicle King said:

It doesn't. It's evenly matched with SSBKK, which is still severely underpowered compared to UI.

UI doesn't have a weakness, Goku's just not used to it yet. Said weakness is that he can't attack without thinking, meaning his attacks come off weaker than they should. Vegeta's new form wouldn't help, seeing as his strongest attack would still be no match for Jiren.

It was just showing off the new forms, nothing there really implied they'd be fighting together.

Except that so far, Goku has yet to defeat an arc villain.

He never defeated Vegeta in Z, Freeza survived all the punishment Goku threw at him and would've won had Goku not learned Instant Transmission/Trunks had shown up to prevent him from destroying the earth, Cell killed Goku and Gohan had to finish him off, Goku needed the help of literally everyone available to power the one attack capable of stopping Kid Buu, and even then needed a full heal to finish him off. As for Super, he lost to Beerus, Freeza once again would've won had it not been for some miraculous convenience on the protagonist's side, Hit and Goku were even until Goku gave up because he realized Hit was holding back, and  Black and Zamasu flat out won.

Vegeta obtained what he wanted. He got stronger on his own without sacrificing his character, he matched a GoD without needing UI, and proved he can still get stronger. Meanwhile Goku, while still stronger thanks to UI, has yet to master this technique that is literally the culmination of his entire character, and have a proper victory over the antagonist.

I never stated Goku specifically having the form, but in broad strokes, his new forms are what won several arcs, regardless of actually defeating the enemy, or a new form in general does it.

Frieza, even if he survived the punishment was absolutely humiliated, and left in barely one piece. Yeah, Trunks finished the job off, but Super Saiyan is what ended off that saga with Goku easily destroying Frieza after achieving the form.

Gohan achieved SSJ2 and it was that combined with the Father-Son Kamehameha which ended the Cell Saga once and for all.

I don't count Buu because it was a spirit bomb.

Beerus was impressed so much with the Super Saiyan God form and Goku's ability to stop his attacks from destroying Earth that he stopped his plan to destroy it under a pretence of getting Goku to be worthy of fighting him. Even then, I don't count this because the arc resolution is more down to Goku's resolve and not giving up as opposed to him just getting a new power.

SSBKK is comparable however as it's the reason why that arc ended up being resolved. Goku's capability of the new form was enough to place himself and Hit on equal footing until Goku got annoyed with Beerus and Champa and threw the match. Regardless of such, that form was a key point of placing Goku in the level of taking down Hit.

Zamasu, I discounted because he was basically retconned out by Zen O. 

It just feels like a lazy ending that has come out of absolutely nowhere, the standard ending to be expected from the series. I love the resolution to the Buu Saga because as a finale, it had Goku and Vegeta using everyone's power to finally put down Buu, there was no "one hero" so to speak. Vegeta and even HERCULE had a role in defeating Buu. That wasn't something you would expect if you watched the series with no preexisting knowledge. 

But now, just like Vegito Blue, the foreshadowing that has been established from at the earliest - Whis' training around Episode 12 and even earlier if you count the Resurrection F movie just makes no sense and ultimately doesn't even have a role in the series. Why should they work together? Goku just got a new form that is going to handle the biggest threat to date, so why should it matter? It's just such a standard ending that throws away the interesting idea of finally having Goku and Vegeta properly fight together against a bigger foe, no distractions, no 1v1, no fusions. Instead, Goku will randomly master UI and give us the ending we expected from the beginning of the arc.

[Tani Coyote]

So looking like Frieza and Goku will indeed be the last ones standing, and the idea Frieza will somehow backstab the team at the last minute will hold true.

Of course, he'll no doubt be foiled in the ring by Gohan having helped tire him out with the Death Beam cage, or foiled outside the ring by the fact he can't speak the language of the Gods.

Recap:

127 - February 10th/11th. 17 falls.

128 - February 17th/18th. Vegeta falls.

(One week break)

129 - March 3rd/4th. Goku masters Ultra Instinct.

(One week break)

130 - March 17th/18th. Goku presumably defeats Jiren (no spoilers yet).

131 - March 24th/25th. Epilogue.

[Vec]

I think Vegeta's done a lot. Him being knocked out now wouldn't be him getting shafted. He'll, he's the one who knocked out the most rivals.