Dragon Ball (Warning: Untagged Spoilers)

[Meta77]

I really don't see a backstabbing frieza angle. He's surrounded by God's

[Pawn]

I honestly feel it would have been better had Vegeta actually sacrificed himself after a longer, harder battle with GoD Toppo (who they should have made more of or at the very least eliminate 17). That way there would have been no need to have Vegeta fall to Jiren and it would still have felt like a step up from the Buu saga since his attack actually would have worked. As things are, it all feels a bit of a mess.

I'm not surprised that Goku is the one to take on Jiren though, as UI is the next big thing whatever Vegeta says and it's been a significant feature of the entire arc. Meanwhile Vegeta has had relatively little focus leading up to the battle with U11, even compared to Gohan and 17.

[ThePrinceOfSaiyans]

2 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Making Vegeta lose and just having Goku miraculously learn Ultra Instinct to beat Jiren seems really fucking lazy as an ending to me. Like they spent from Resurrection F building up that Goku and Vegeta would have to learn to swallow their pride and work as a team to overcome tough enemies, and with Vegeta getting a new form, and the new ending theme even implying this would be the case....but nah suddenly Vegeta gets shafted, gets his ass kicked and Goku wins with a new form/last minute gambit again. 

Are you really surprised? This is par for the course. 

[Eternal EX]

Vegeta's great moment in DBS:

 

-"THAT'S MY BULMA"

-Achieving SSB and almost killing Freiza

-Getting Cabba to become a Super Sayian.

-Knocking out Toppo  (which was a lackluster battle on toppo's side)

 

Seriously, DBS did pretty good to Vegeta unlike some of DBZ. Now as for this arc (I haven't read any spoilers past this week) Vegeta and most of Team Goku was shafted to give goku more room to shine. It's great to see even the sayian girls wreck shit and go toe to toe with goku an all of his forms. But damn. Vegeta needs more attention.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

4 hours ago, Josh said:

Even if Vegeta isn't the "main character" his moments in this arc were the best. Goku taking licks from Jiren and randomly getting power ups hasn't been nearly as exciting for me as watching Vegeta break through driven by his friends and family. He pretty much is the emotional hook of the arc for me.

It's annoying if the final battle really is just Goku mastering his new asspull and beating Jiren, but it's not that surprising. This arc has basically been focusing on Goku for obligatory reasons while they let the more interesting characters and plotlines fall by the wayside.

This is actually the case for me, even if I've mainly been on again, off again with this arc, as I'm still going through the Black arc. From what I have seen, a lot of Goku's shit has been getting on my nerves this arc, taking his issues from the Black arc and amping them up, including his carelessness about dragging other universes into his mess with the tournament and accepting he's "a villain". Yeah, they confirm that Goku might've unintentionally have given U7 a chance to survive anyway as Zen'O planned to wipe them anyway, but that was mainly a unintended effect of what Goku actually wanted.

On the other hand, while Trunks is my favourite DB character, I've never actually said who else I enjoy in the series and surprisingly, Vegeta is up there for me since a lot of things starting from the Maijn Vegeta saga, which is where he begins getting a lot more development compared to Cell where he mainly acted like an egotistical idiot for a large chunk of it. The best way I compare it being his failure in Cell against his failure with Buu. With Cell, he acted like an idiot and allowed him to go to a higher level to stroke his ego. With Buu, he ultimately realised that being evil isn't what he wanted and he took a shortcut to attain his new power, going out to protect his family in the end. 

I actually found Vegeta far more interesting this arc, especially given that he has a lot more development and stakes here. Goku just wants to feed an insatiable lust for fighting, ironically one of the key parts of pre-Buu Goku. Vegeta is the one who now wants to protect his family and be there for Bra, right to the point he was willing to give up fighting altogether until Whis convinced him to partake.

[DiamondX]

In Goku's defense, he didn't know the universes would be erased. He just wanted a fun tournament.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

13 minutes ago, DiamondX the Fighter said:

In Goku's defense, he didn't know the universes would be erased. He just wanted a fun tournament.

Except, when he did know that would be the case, and made other universes his enemy because of it, he basically said he doesn't give a shit if he's a villain as long as he gets the fight he hungers for.

[DiamondX]

That's true. But soon he did understand that it was a bad thing when U9 was erased.

He was angry at the Grand Priest for that.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

40 minutes ago, DiamondX the Fighter said:

That's true. But soon he did understand that it was a bad thing when U9 was erased.

He was angry at the Grand Priest for that.

I'm pretty sure if anything that was a response to the backlash of Goku acting like an out and out villain, especially after complaints of being OoC in Black's arc til he found out about Black killing Chi Chi and Goten.

In any case, it's a thing of too little too late. Especially when earlier, Goku knew full well they'd be erased and just said he didn't give a shit. It's inconsistent for him to suddenly realise he acted shitty when he saw what he already knew was going to happen.

[DiamondX]

OoC? What's that?

 

Anyway, I agree. They make it kinda incostisten if Goku cares or not.

[MightyRay]

8 minutes ago, DiamondX the Fighter said:

OoC? What's that?

OoC stands for Out of Character.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

8 minutes ago, DiamondX the Fighter said:

OoC? What's that?

 

Anyway, I agree. They make it kinda incostisten if Goku cares or not.

Out of Character.

And I know that Toriyama has a somewhat different view of Goku, being more of a selfish Saiyan in terms of battle lust (which is pretty stupid to me honestly since the point of Goku's character is while having a love of battle, he isn't just a simple minded barbarian who wants to kill and hurt others for the sake of a fight). But even then, considering that even in the manga, this is the same man who convinced Vegeta to stop acting like the Saiyans were some great race and focus on saving their own families and their new home, it seems pretty stupid he's still the one who's endangering so many just for a stupid fight.

[Tani Coyote]

12 hours ago, Meta77 said:

I really don't see a backstabbing frieza angle. He's surrounded by God's

He was willing to play backstab in spite of the fact Beerus might have seen it as a genuine betrayal.

He just may end up betraying them for real.

8 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Except, when he did know that would be the case, and made other universes his enemy because of it, he basically said he doesn't give a shit if he's a villain as long as he gets the fight he hungers for.

Further evidence Bergamo would have been a better antagonist than Jiren.

8 hours ago, DiamondX the Fighter said:

That's true. But soon he did understand that it was a bad thing when U9 was erased.

I think Goku and Zen-Oh's relationship is rather symbolic. Both wield enormous power and just don't have the right sense of responsibility that it calls for.

Of course, with Goku, he can't get as much slack, since he's clearly tactful when he needs to be (he calls future Zen-Oh "sama" as opposed to "chan," so he's not a complete moron).

[DiamondX]

To celebrate the end of Super and the final recording, the voice cast had a party.

Someone there was the Cabba VA.

So it's possible that the voice cast spoiled the ending and U6 comes back. (Or he just voices Cabba in a flashback)

 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Just now, DiamondX the Fighter said:

To celebrate the end of Super and the final recording, the voice cast had a party.

Someone there was the Cabba VA.

So it's possible that the voice cast spoiled the ending and U6 comes back. (Or he just voices Cabba in a flashback)

 

Or since it’s a cast party, they did that and invited the entire cast? Or at least the ones who had big enough roles, and given Cabba had two decent roles in two different arcs, including the finale, and was a driving point for Vegeta’s development, of course he’d be invited to a cast party.

[Ratcicle King]

I mean, it's a party to celebrate the conclusion of Super.

Would be a dick move to not invite the voice actors of major characters just because they're dead/didn't appear in the final episodes.

[DiamondX]

Well, it's not the entire cast, that's the thing:

It makes me think it's mostly the cast that appeared in the episode.

 

I'm probably looking too much into this.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

30 minutes ago, DiamondX the Fighter said:

Well, it's not the entire cast, that's the thing:

It makes me think it's mostly the cast that appeared in the episode.

 

I'm probably looking too much into this.

You are, they aren't going to just invite the cast of one single episode.

[Tani Coyote]

Also something else to note:

Cabba's voice actor also voices Liquiir, the God of Destruction of Universe 8 (the fox dude). It's entirely possible he's there to voice Liquiir.

New batch of spoilers basically reaffirms what we knew, with 17 and Vegeta's eliminations in the next two episodes confirmed.

It's said that Goku and Jiren are the only ones left in the arena, but I doubt it. Frieza is no doubt planning to steal the victory.

In the meantime...

 

[DiamondX]

New images gave been released, but I'm mostly interested in this one:

KID JIREN.

[Meta77]

I've been figuring since the manga goes on about him wanting a wish is that either he wants a family or something wiped hos race put and he would like them back maybe

[Pawn]

1 hour ago, DiamondX the Fighter said:

New images gave been released, but I'm mostly interested in this one:

KID JIREN.

It looks like Jiren's back story is going to be: "I was in trouble and the Pride Troopers came to save me" or just "I always wanted to be a Pride Trooper" and this is him training.

No doubt many Youtubers are going to be disappointed because it doesn't fit into their speculation that he's the "son of an angel" or "rebelling against the gods".

[The Tenth Doctor]

Bullshit. Fucking Bullshit. 17 is engulfed in an explosion which kills him, the crowd say he self destructed. Bullshit. What terrible writing to allow Juren away with it. Also, of course he has the "My parents are dead and I can't trust nobody" backstory. Just highlights what an awful asspull he is. Sorry if I sound salty but this is just asinine for our final Super boss.

Though I did love the episode as 17 was amazing. Frieza getting more and more pissed is great too, I grin whenever he shows up. All this time he thought he was the strongest, even above the monkeys who killed him. Now he is being swatted by nobodies. This is really cracking him up and I love it.

[Harkofthewaa]

@The Tenth Doctor Just replace Batman with Jiren and you're good.

[-Robin-]

His barriers were being broken left and right all episode, so if 17 just tried to hold off that last blast, it would have ended with him, Goku, and Vegeta all knocked out of the ring.

 

He held the last one for as long as he could before going out with a bang, taking one for the team.