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Dragon Ball (Warning: Untagged Spoilers)

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18 hours ago, DiamondX said:

I don't get it. Are Paragus and Broly not part of the Freeza army?

Or do they betray them?

Freeza may be training or testing him, since he sounds pretty happy about Broly's power. Paragus might simply serve Freeza in this one (whether willingly or begrudgingly).

Oh, and I bet that tall Cabba-like Saiyan, seen with a young Paragus, is revealed to have been at the mercy of Broly's first explosive rage.

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I don't know if anyone's seen the new manga chapter, but... holy fuck, Kale. I've only looked at the Japanese, but whether you wait for the English or not, I recommend not spoiling it. =P My thoughts though:

 

So she blows away a bunch of scrubs, nearly knocks off both Vegeta and Toppo before they can react, destroys a disappointingly brief Anilaza fusion (eliminating U3 in the process), fucks off Obuni and therefore U10 is also gone, takes out her own teammates in Magetta and the Namekians and almost Cabba (so Vegeta saves him here rather than later).

Considering the chapter ends with Gohan vs Kefla, I can only assume that he figures out a way to outsmart her.

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You know what?

Universe 9 actually was treated pretty well by comparison. At least they got most of a single issue all to themselves.

This on the other hand was a god damn massacre LOL.

Oddly consistent with how the Trio de Dangers got a lot of screentime in the anime for guys who went out first (and, going by the minutes, they got more screentime than pretty much anyone besides Universe 11 and 6). I suspect they have someone who's a fan on the staff of both the anime and comic.

 

DioVmbUUEAEhrba.jpg

Also props to how chill Gowasu is about being eliminated, simply waving goodbye to Universe 7 with a smile.

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So, the likely outline is as follows:

Chapter 39 will be Kefla vs Gohan and whomever. Presumably we'll lose Gohan or 18. Maybe Goku unlocks Ultra Instinct for the first time in this fight? Since Universe 11 has a more active presence in this, however, it's entirely possible some of Universe 7 will be grappling with them on the sidelines.

Chapter 40 will have them take out Dyspo and Toppo.

And Chapter 41 will be the final Goku and Jiren fight and presumable resolution.

They can fit a surprising amount of story in these manga volumes so I don't think it'll feel too rushed.

Curious what they're planning on doing with Roshi. He activated BAMF mode to whittle Universe 4's best warriors down, but Kale already stole that from him.

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So I'm looking over that movie trailer and I'm laughing because it says January 2019...

Assuming no breaks, the English dub will get the Zen Exhibition Match on September 1st, with Episode 78.

We'll get episode 97 (the start of the Tournament) on January 19th, assuming one break for the week of Christmas.

I suppose the goal here was to motivate people to watch the Tournament arc? Because even if it's at the end of January, that's shortly after Universe 9 gets Erased and the stakes are apparent.

 

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Funimation wants to get the movie out as soon as possible, and apparently a month after the Japanese release is as soon as they can get. Toonami got Super as soon as they could and have been playing it as they would any acquisition. The timing isn't going to work out, but outside of Toei giving the series to FUNi earlier or Toei releasing the movie later, it just wasn't going to.

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We have an interview with Tatsuya Nagamine concerning his direction on the new film, and revealing some plot details and ideas behind it's creation.

 

There's a long string of replies featuring the relevant info, so I'll summarize:

-Chelye (the green girl) is a young delinquent interested in helping Broly out (emotionally?), against her better judgement and everyone else's. This causes issue.

-Lemo (orange guy) has been serving under Freeza for decades and wants to "do something about Broly" (get rid of him?) but he knows he's weak as hell.

-some encounter between Lemo, Broly and Chelye cause...things to happen. This one is worded weirdly, either Broly or Lemo is heavily changed by something Chelye does.

-Goku and Vegeta are still doing the same shit.

-Frieza is strategizing in the background. His goal could be killing Zeno.

-Nagamine says Frieza was heavily disadvantaged fighting Goku and Vegeta before, but will be a better opposition in the new film.

-Nagamine was worried upon hearing Broly was the subject, since his mentor Shigeyasu Yamauchi directed the first Broly movie and he didn't know if he'd be able to compare

-lots of focus on the word "characterization" for Broly, from both Nagamine and Toriyama, along with making him look strong.

-Nagamine was concerned that the aesthetic sensibilities for the series had gotten stale and wanted to revolutionize things with more creative, modern and varied animation techniques.

-a big focus has been placed on the physiology of transformations because of this.

-Toriyama's original script would have been nearly three hours long, so there was a lot of reworking to make it more efficient and briskly-paced

Most of everything else is just on Nagamine, his history with the series, being pulled away from Super's TV series to work on the movie, and some technical stuff about Super's animation (on the whole, but especially the end of the ToP) being ultra-expensive.

my thoughts:

-I love that Chelye is potentially a catalyst for some of this. You hardly ever get much focus on random Frieza soldiers and for our first one to be a fucking adorable green girl with some conviction kickstarting major events is very nice.

-We don't really know what Broly's general character will be yet, but I love that they're as vocal as they are about trying to make him more personable. It's like they knew everyone (including Toriyama)'s first criticism of Broly was that he had very little character to him and are making fixing that a priority.

-If Frieza really is looking to kill the Omni-king, this could make him the final boss of Dragon Ball. We've never had any character make a comeback like this before. I'm not sure how I feel about it (because I love to watch Frieza be horrible but I like it better when they do new stuff and don't just fanwank the old), but this might blow the possibilities of GT stuff coming back out of the water, unless they can somehow combine the Shadow Dragons idea with Frieza (because let's be honest, if they bring back any villain idea from GT it'd be that).

-I hope Nagamine was just trying to be humble and courteous about worries he won't be as good as Yamauchi, because I've seen the first Broly movie, and I would certainly hope he can do better than that. In fact, I've seen One Piece Film Z too, so I know he can.

-I'm so glad we've moved away from the stiff-ass modern Yamamuro era of art. Dragon Ball has looked like this most of my time as a fan and I'm glad it's transforming to be something so much better. I didn't realize how much I wanted this aesthetic until I got it.

-the cutting-down of Toriyama's script is the only major worry...I'm hoping that it's for the better, because I don't want this to be an hour and a half of fights with hardly any of Toriyama's classic character interactions and dialogue. I'm thinking this all probably happened before production so hopefully it's all ironed out and there's no glaring flaws.

 

This movie is crazy. I hope it's great, I really do. If nothing else, it's bringing the best look for the series to the forefront for all new major animated material to follow, enhancing things greatly.

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1 hour ago, Shaddy the Zaphod said:

-Toriyama's original script would have been nearly three hours long, so there was a lot of reworking to make it more efficient and briskly-paced

Extended edition via television arc once Super comes back confirmed. 

But seriously, if Toriyama's story really is getting restructured just to make it a movie, I hope the full version gets made later.

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Id rather frieza stay a enemy but a pocket card if needed. I do not know I liked him in TOP because while he is evil he still fought in some amazing unison with goku. Honestly for me that was one of the best parts of the final epsiode, shocking even Vegeta they were able to fight together so well.

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1 hour ago, Ice Vec said:

Now thinking a bit...it'd somewhat make sense of Roshi partially knowing UI. But then...why didn't he use that before?

It doesn't, really. Goku has trained with gods... while Roshi has just lived for longer than other humans. Meanwhile Hit is over 1000 years old and has no inkling of UI.

As for the rest of the chapter; Gohan vs Kefla didn't make much sense either. While it's mentioned that Kale's power was the result of her over-spending on her energy, her fusion with Caulifla should still be far stronger than him. This could have worked had he outsmarted her, but it's presented as a clash between equal powers. He didn't even go in the bloody Time Chamber. Why??

Their fight is also pretty underwhelming for something that should be epic, as is Vegeta vs Toppo. The way UI just pops up and out before anyone can process what's happening is bad too. Toyotaro seems to be relying on the anime to fill the gaps. Imagine reading this without it.

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I'd be fine with it. Mystic Hogan was meant to powerful. He basically could have killed but and I'm sure kid buu but he was overly cocky. And like frieda at first had never even tried to train in the form

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https://www.viz.com/shonenjump/dragon-ball-super-chapter-39/chapter/8485

Pros:

  • Toyotaro tying Gohan's ultimate state to his rejection of his Saiyan heritage.
  • The lead up to Champa's elimination.

Cons:

  • Gohan being as strong as he is. It stretches credulity, given the extremely lackluster explanation. Saying X character trained off screen for X period time is lazy, and this needs to stop.
  • Roshi defeating Kahseral with martial arts alone. This flies in the face of the foundational aspects of combat for this series, unless I'm supposed to believe Roshi is that strong, which in and of itself creates problems.
  • Roshi outmaneuvering Jiren doesn't make sense no matter how you slice it. Trying to justify it by saying shit like Kame-sennin has some sorta pseudo Ultra Instinct as noted by Whis doesn't work. The fact that Kame-sennin has some form of pseudo Ultra Instinct at all is stupid. He's not some god-tier martial artist, despite what his title might suggest. He's never had this ability and he doesn't have a reason to have this ability, full stop. We wouldn't have seen shit like this in the original series because it doesn't make sense, and you know it.
  • Roshi imparting lessons to Goku this late in the game doesn't make sense given Roshi had passed the torch to the younger generation decades ago. You can't just suddenly pull him out of retirement and give him some form of pseudo Ultra Instinct. It's dumb.
  • Goku forgetting the fundamentals of his training.
  • Roshi claiming Goku only trains to get stronger as opposed to improving himself. That's so wrong that I can't even believe this got the green light. 
  • Champa's actual elimination. It was significantly more impactful in the anime. 
  • Gohan's fight with Kafla was undersold. It's only a handful of pages.

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