Dragon Ball (Warning: Untagged Spoilers)

[Vec]

If there's two failed attempts at fusion, it'd be funny if one of those was Vegeta's intention just for the joy of seeing Freeza get beaten just a bit longer

[ThePrinceOfSaiyans]

13 minutes ago, -Robin- said:

What, the same lore that said that the Super Saiyan state could only be achieved as a Great Ape? The lore that said the power was so great that he blew up the planet he was on unintentionally? Did you think Goku becoming one without going Great Ape was contrary to lore? 

Legends get exacerbated. Nothing concrete saying you can’t become a Super Saiyan without sacrificing your identity. The exact opposite happened four times before the Broly movie.

 

That's all dub nonsense. When Vegeta is talking about the legendary Super Saiyan, there's a sequence of images where a Golden Oozaru is shown, but it's not implied that the legendary Super Saiyan could only maintain the form in the Oozaru state. This is what is said about the legendary Super Saiyan.

Chapter: 285 (DBZ 91), P4.1-3, P5.2
Jheese: “Su…Su…Super Saiyan…!? Th-the legendary mightiest of warriors…[ ] So h-he’s…The one thing Lord Freeza feared, the Super Saiyan…!!”
Ginyu: “You don’t want to kill me? You don’t want any pointless fights…!? The Su-Super Saiyan is supposed to be the strongest warrior in the universe, who loves blood and battle…”

This information was later appropriated for Broli, who is the  "true legendary Super Saiyan".

 

[Wraith]

I have my own problems with how this movie treats the canon but that's more to due with how the Saiyans are treated than Broly. 

Spoiler

These are changes we've known of as far back as Dragon Ball Minus, but I still feel like this version of Bardock is a far less interesting character and it sucks the punch out of who Goku ended up turning out to be. I'm over seriously caring about inaccuracies in Dragon Ball lore, but I'll never be happy with changes that make characters less interesting. 

I don't really care either way about the changes to Broly since I don't really consider that character all that great to begin with. This is essentially a new character to me. Less of the mythological figure that the old Broly was and more of an actual part of the Saiyan story. He presents Vegeta with an interesting rival being a direct consequence of his Father's actions, but I'm not sure how much this film will make use of that angle. 

Theres the potential of a decent character being set up here but I've seen that too many times in this series for it to matter. Frieza manipulating him into snapping seems like a really good moment, but it doesn't really seem like there's a real catalyst for Broly letting go of his anger and becoming good aside from being beaten? If they don't really "follow through" on the attempt to make him more of a character I don't see how this Broly is much more interesting than the original

If you're going to reintroduce him I think giving him more personal ties to the main character was the right call, but...I'm really exhausted of the emphasis on Saiyans in Dragon Ball to begin with, really. Kinda struggling to have something to say about this because of that, lol.
 

I just hope the fights are good. They're really the only reason I'm excited for this.  Though TBH going by the summary it's not as bad as I expected it to be, plot/character wise.  

[Ryannumber1gamer]

1 minute ago, Wraith said:

 

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Theres the potential of a decent character being set up here but I've seen that too many times in this series for it to matter. Frieza manipulating him into snapping seems like a really good moment, but it doesn't really seem like there's a real catalyst for Broly letting go of his anger and becoming good aside from being beaten? If they don't really "follow through" on the attempt to make him more of a character I don't see how this Broly is all that more interesting than the original

 

Spoiler

I think from what I've gathered from the spoiler info, it's more so Broly's movie personality, mixed with the initial rage of Goku's ascension to SSJ. Broly's personality is a bit more quiet and subdued due to having lived isolated for so long, with a comparison being Tarzan. He's only recently gathered friends from Frieza's force. 

I think the best comparison is if you compare this to Goku's first ascension as this is what it's meant to mirror basically. Frieza murders Krillin right in front of Goku, his best friend since childhood. This causes Goku to absolutely explode with anger, and pain. We can somewhat tell this transformation is a lot different from when Goten, Trunks, Vegeta, or even Future Trunks ascends to SSJ.

Gohan's ascension to SSJ2 and Goku's ascension to SSJ are the ones that make sense here for one prime reason. Both of them made it pretty clear that while they gained new power, they were close to completely losing their minds. Goku shouts at Gohan to take Piccolo and the others off planet because he's so pissed off and angry that he's losing all sense of reason and he might end up attacking them. 

Gohan when he ascends becomes a lot more cold in his fighting. Where he didn't like fighting before, doubted in his own power, and what have you, when he turned SSJ2, he was embroiled in his anger. He systematically and mockingly threw Cell around and wouldn't end him for the sheer reason that Gohan had gone sadistic in SSJ2 and wanted Cell to suffer for all of the pain he caused everyone and only snapped out of it when Cell tried to self-destruct and take the planet with him.

So what I'm saying is that Frieza practically repeating it again by brutally murdering Paragus - which in this version - actually sounds like he cares about his son and likely has a bond with him would be enough to send Broly absolutely over the edge, which isn't helped by the fact he was isolated for so long, so he practically has zero sense of reasoning or self-control when his SSJ transformation kicks in. I'm pretty sure that's what the last trailer meant by Broly being unable to stop himself, once Frieza triggered the Super Saiyan transformation, whatever self-control and restraint Broly had was completely lost as he flies into the same rage Goku did when he first went SSJ. The only difference is Broly doesn't have the friends and family present to force him to retain any shred of self-control.

 

[Wraith]

3 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

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I think from what I've gathered from the spoiler info, it's more so Broly's movie personality, mixed with the initial rage of Goku's ascension to SSJ. Broly's personality is a bit more quiet and subdued due to having lived isolated for so long, with a comparison being Tarzan. He's only recently gathered friends from Frieza's force. 

I think the best comparison is if you compare this to Goku's first ascension as this is what it's meant to mirror basically. Frieza murders Krillin right in front of Goku, his best friend since childhood. This causes Goku to absolutely explode with anger, and pain. We can somewhat tell this transformation is a lot different from when Goten, Trunks, Vegeta, or even Future Trunks ascends to SSJ.

Gohan's ascension to SSJ2 and Goku's ascension to SSJ are the ones that make sense here for one prime reason. Both of them made it pretty clear that while they gained new power, they were close to completely losing their minds. Goku shouts at Gohan to take Piccolo and the others off planet because he's so pissed off and angry that he's losing all sense of reason and he might end up attacking them. 

Gohan when he ascends becomes a lot more cold in his fighting. Where he didn't like fighting before, doubted in his own power, and what have you, when he turned SSJ2, he was embroiled in his anger. He systematically and mockingly threw Cell around and wouldn't end him for the sheer reason that Gohan had gone sadistic in SSJ2 and wanted Cell to suffer for all of the pain he caused everyone and only snapped out of it when Cell tried to self-destruct and take the planet with him.

So what I'm saying is that Frieza practically repeating it again by brutally murdering Paragus - which in this version - actually sounds like he cares about his son and likely has a bond with him would be enough to send Broly absolutely over the edge, which isn't helped by the fact he was isolated for so long, so he practically has zero sense of reasoning or self-control when his SSJ transformation kicks in. I'm pretty sure that's what the last trailer meant by Broly being unable to stop himself, once Frieza triggered the Super Saiyan transformation, whatever self-control and restraint Broly had was completely lost as he flies into the same rage Goku did when he first went SSJ. The only difference is Broly doesn't have the friends and family present to force him to retain any shred of self-control.

 

I understand all of this so I'm not really sure what you're trying to explain to me here. 

 

Spoiler

I'm talking specifically about the supposed end of the film, where Broly becomes friends with Goku and the Frieza soldiers. What causes him to let go of his rage? Being beaten?

 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

4 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I understand all of this so I'm not really sure what you're trying to explain to me here. 

 

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I'm talking specifically about the supposed end of the film, where Broly becomes friends with Goku and the Frieza soldiers. What causes him to let go of his rage? Being beaten?

 

Spoiler

From what's there, I think there's meant to be the implication that after he's saved by his friends in the Frieza Force, it's them and his care for them that causes the rage to be let go of. The Frieza Soldiers were already his friend prior to landing on Earth, so it's likely they managed to get through to him.

Or there could be something else that just hasn't been added to the synopsis yet.

 

[Meta77]

19 hours ago, DiamondX said:

 

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About the 3 fusion dance attempts, 2 are failed, with the failures being skinny Gogeta and...

He's back.

 

 

Rofl I need to know how they mess up. Most likely it will happen in final 30 minutes

[Vec]

So, "Super Dragon Ball Heroes: World Mission" has been rated in Australia. Possible future western release?

https://nintendoeverything.com/super-dragon-ball-heroes-world-mission-seems-to-be-coming-west/

[Ryannumber1gamer]

It makes sense. The Dragon Ball tour a few months ago showcased the first ever localised cards, it's very possible they intend to bring the 3DS/Switch titles over.

It's about fucking time too, I got why the arcade game didn't get anything, but the 3DS and Switch games just didn't make sense to me for no localisation.

[8ther]

If you a fan of Beerus, i have good news..

According to the new movie, Beerus is stronger than Jiran, MUI Goku and "maybe" Broly and SSB Gogeta/Vegetto

You have permission to wank now.

[Ratcicle King]

Another small detail about Freeza's wish

Spoiler

They ask him why he doesn't wish for immortality, and he states immortality is kinda useless when you can't do much with it.

Freeza probably realized that being immortal means shit when there's an entire multiverse and pantheon of gods above him in power, contrasting with his original view of him being the top dog of the universe save for a lazy god that he probably didn't expect to wake up for the next couple of centuries and a legendary beast sealed away somewhere in the universe, so back then immortality was just his way of ensuring his reign would last forever, just in the case of someone stronger than him showing up.

 

[ThePrinceOfSaiyans]

Yeah, I saw that. I'm glad it's actually addressed, because on the face of it it doesn't make a ton of sense. 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

It does raise another question though. Zamasu’s immortality basically erased any damage dealt to him, which would still technically be of aid to Frieza since while he might not be the strongest, he’d be powerful enough to outlive any attack.

Then again, another possibility is that it’s not immortal to everything, but rather only mortal attacks, which would explain why SSB Goku, Vegeta and Trunks couldn’t do anything. Zen’O did kill him but he had to literally erase the universe itself to do it. But I suppose it’s possible that a god’s power would trump an immortality wish, so something like Beerus’ Hakai would do it since it literally leaves nothing to regenerate. 

IIRC, Zamasu and Black went around killing the Destroyers of Future Trunks’ world by taking down the Supreme Kais that were easier targets, so it is a big possibility that the immortality wish doesn’t even grant true immortality.

[Ratcicle King]

4 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

It does raise another question though. Zamasu’s immortality basically erased any damage dealt to him, which would still technically be of aid to Frieza since while he might not be the strongest, he’d be powerful enough to outlive any attack.

Then again, another possibility is that it’s not immortal to everything, but rather only mortal attacks, which would explain why SSB Goku, Vegeta and Trunks couldn’t do anything. Zen’O did kill him but he had to literally erase the universe itself to do it. But I suppose it’s possible that a god’s power would trump an immortality wish, so something like Beerus’ Hakai would do it since it literally leaves nothing to regenerate. 

IIRC, Zamasu and Black went around killing the Destroyers of Future Trunks’ world by taking down the Supreme Kais that were easier targets, so it is a big possibility that the immortality wish doesn’t even grant true immortality.

At least going by the manga, a hakai is capable of overcoming the immortality.

Also that was immortality given by the Super Dragon Balls, so it was probably much stronger than whatever the normal ones can do.

Freeza basically underestimated the destructive energy after he developed better energy control, so I guess after Toppo proved how his control is worth shit against a God of Destruction actually trying to erase him, Freeza realizes it's best not to test his luck with that.

[Meta77]

11 hours ago, Jiren (Metro) said:

If you a fan of Beerus, i have good news..

 

  Hide contents

According to the new movie, Beerus is stronger than Jiran, MUI Goku and "maybe" Broly and SSB Gogeta/Vegetto

 

You have permission to wank now.

But why was he sweating in top when goku finally hit mui

[DiamondX]

The Dragon Ball Super manga will have a new arc starting December.

Galaxy/Galactic Patrol Prison Arc.

[Pawn]

If this turns out to be real, then it sounds like we won't be revisiting Broly in the anime. I assumed it would be new content rather than a retelling this time around, but it's nice to see signs pointing that way.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

45 minutes ago, Pawn said:

If this turns out to be real, then it sounds like we won't be revisiting Broly in the anime. I assumed it would be new content rather than a retelling this time around, but it's nice to see signs pointing that way.

Thank God. Not even just because of the idea of having to repeat the movie events for 10 episodes but I really don’t want to see Broly’s animation butchered like BoG and RF were.

[Ratcicle King]

Not entirely, true, the manga began with the Universe 6 arc while the anime did the movie retellings. So it's not impossible the manga is ahead again.

[DiamondX]

The question is wether or not Shintani will be the character designer. Or is Yamamuro coming back?

[Pawn]

There's no reason to buy time or restructure the movie's story when they're actually prepared in advance this time. I really don't think there's much chance of a BoG/RoF situation.

[Ratcicle King]

I doubt Yamamuro's coming back, he's said to have stepped down from the anime to focus on the marketing and promotional stuff if I recall correctly

[Meta77]

I just wonder how they can top well...Top. that final fight was amazing.  though canon gogeta and cooler make me happy

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Cooler actually isn't canon, thank god.

[Pawn]

Yeah, I don't want to read too many spoilers, but from what I understand, Cooler isn't actually mentioned after all.