Dragon Ball (Warning: Untagged Spoilers)

[Soniman]

Eh, at least Bruce's score are super memorable and can be (imo) really good.

 

Look at what 4kids did, we got extremely shitty and generic synthesizer music that blasts ALL THE TIME which makes everything loud and annoying, One Piece is a perfect representation, no quiet moments at all because the kids will get bored and change the channel!

Edited March 22, 2013 by Soniman

[MugiMikey]

Look at what 4kids did, we got extremely shitty and generic synthesizer music that blasts ALL THE TIME which makes everything loud and annoying, One Piece is a perfect representation, no quiet moments at all because the kids will get bored and change the channel!

While I also think some tracks are memorable, I have to disagree with the rest because Faulconer's score pretty much fits this bill too: a shitty synthesizer is used, it was blasting all the time, and it was loud and annoying.

 

The only reason why the music in 4Kids One Piece seemed less memorable to me is because I didn't watch it nearly as much as the original. I mean, 4Kids DOES create different BGM that they re-use because I can count a handful of tracks from the Sonic X dub that are memorable too.

[Soniman]

I dunno man, a lot of Bruce's works are easily memorable and I never really saw it as particularly loud (at least during inappropriate moments). DBZ is one of those animes where atmosphere isn't really a major factor for me, the music actually helps to keep it interesting for when scenes start to drag out (and this being DBZ, this is a common occurrence). 4KIDS compositions just sound like one long annoying BGM with really generic instruments to make it sound as cartoony as possible, removing any dramatic tension or atmosphere the show had in it's original format.

[MugiMikey]

I see what you mean. Yeah, Bruce did have different sounding tracks, and while 4Kids tried to make their shows sound too cartoonish for their own good, Bruce tried to make DBZ sound too actiony and melodramatic for its own good. They're both guilty of the same thing, just executed differently. I guess that's the best way I can put it.

[Tani Coyote]

Faulconer's tunes will, if nothing else, always remain nostalgic to me.

 

Imperfect Cell's theme? That was just bloody creepy and fit him very well.

 

Super Buu's theme? Its chaotic, dark nature fit how he went where no villains went before: he made humanity near-extinct, he blew up Earth. He handed our heroes their ass on a silver platter and the only way he could be beaten was through the help of everyone else.

 

I can't give a good analysis of it but Perfect Cell's theme is something I always enjoyed as well.

 

If nothing else DBZ's music has serious nostalgia value for me, forming some of the most iconic tunes of my childhood alongside Crush 40 lyrics.

[Soniman]

eI see what you mean. Yeah, Bruce did have different sounding tracks, and while 4Kids tried to make their shows sound too cartoonish for their own good, Bruce tried to make DBZ sound too actiony and melodramatic for its own good. They're both guilty of the same thing, just executed differently. I guess that's the best way I can put it.

 

That's fine, to clarify I love the original soundtrack to. It gives the show a unique lighthearted adventure-y flavor to it that helps a lot of scenes moreso than Bruce's BGMs did. 

 

Guess at the end of the day, each BGM gives the show a different flavor and I like both of them just fine, so may prefer one over the other and that's fine to, so yeah.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Soniman

[Tornado]

How can a show predominately revolving around punching people be made "too actiony" by the score? It isn't like the Faulconer score was applied to Ghost in the Shell or something.

[Kuzu]

How can a show predominately revolving around punching people be made "too actiony" by the score? It isn't like the Faulconer score was applied to Ghost in the Shell or something.

 

I think he means the music tends to change the mood. Like Gohan going SSJ2; In the Japanese version, it's treated more as an emotionally crippling moment for Gohan when forgoes his innocence forever. The American version is more badass hero steps up to the plate. That, and music would be playing when it originally didn't in the Jap version.

[Tori Himemiya]

Is it too much for me to ask for a scene with both scores as a comparison?

I don't recall either one. *total noob*

[lounge]

I simply cannot disagree more. The original score is simply too dated for me. It sounds like it's from the 1950's, and I don't see how it matches DBZ in the slightest. Something like Naruto's score is great for the reasons why I like Bruce's score. That is: memorable, catchy themes. And it sounds modern and not dated.

I'll admit, there are times in DBZ where it isn't perfect, like when the music changes rapidly many times. And I didn't really care much for the earlier episode music. But the detail he puts in the eeriness of the sound and those themes overpower that issue for me. And listening to his music now, I'm even more impressed with that detail and the level of passion he had in composing for the show.

Because the animation and art design of DBZ is so beautiful and timeless, this really has an impact with sound and music. Watching DBZ with the japanese score feels like a completely different, dry experience to me.

 

I also don't understand Funi's method of doing the blu ray remasters. Why would they ask for a dirty 16mm Standard definition aspect ratio film negative as their primary source? Why not have negotiations with Toei to get them to use the original cells (not the film negative) and individually digitally scan them with a 4k scanner. That would've been 10 times more efficient than working with a dirty, outdated film roll and fixing all the dirt frame by frame. In animation, the cells are the original source not the film stock. They couldn't even finish the blu ray transfers b/c of expense and difficulty with that method.

Anyway, as I've said, Faulconer won't return and for two reasons:

 

1. He and FUNi had a fallout a decade ago.

I hope this isn't true. I never heard of this though.

[Kuzu]

Is it too much for me to ask for a scene with both scores as a comparison?

I don't recall either one. *total noob*

 

 

Japanese:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Egan7LJfi_4

 

American:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcSWlET_qpIhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcSWlET_qpI

 

 

 

Ya'll make your own assessments.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Ragna the Bloodedge

[Tori Himemiya]

After seeing both the Japanese version really did hit the emotional scale quite hard. And no one knew what the fuck was going on either which is the big kicker.

But the biggest gripe I have with the American version which while it was alright, what killed it was the narrator and his theme popping up at the end. Its like someone came in your house and said "OH HEY GUIS! I HEARD SOMEONE DIED AND YOU WENT BATSHIT CRAZY! TOO BAD WE GOTTA RESOLVE THIS PLOT TOMORROW!"

Also unrelated but I did find this and I laughed:

[MugiMikey]

I simply cannot disagree more. The original score is simply too dated for me. It sounds like it's from the 1950's, and I don't see how it matches DBZ in the slightest. Something like Naruto's score is great for the reasons why I like Bruce's score. That is: memorable, catchy themes. And it sounds modern and not dated.

I'll admit, there are times in DBZ where it isn't perfect, like when the music changes rapidly many times. And I didn't really care much for the earlier episode music. But the detail he puts in the eeriness of the sound and those themes overpower that issue for me. And listening to his music now, I'm even more impressed with that detail and the level of passion he had in composing for the show.

Because the animation and art design of DBZ is so beautiful and timeless, this really has an impact with sound and music. Watching DBZ with the japanese score feels like a completely different, dry experience to me.

You're complaining that the Kikuchi score sounds old but you're forgetting that DBZ is old. Hell, even the way the story is told is supposed to give it a fairy tale-esque vibe. It sounds dated, but saying it sounds like it's from the 1950s seems ignorant to me. Have you heard enough of it? Shunsuke Kikuchi composed it in a '70s-ish style, which is old, but he started composing for the show in the '80s. Wasn't considered that old at the time but it did give it that mystical feeling. Dragon Ball is meant to be one of those fantasy tales with a grandpa-ish narrator telling the story (the dubs of Dragon Ball and DB Kai got this right), not a wrestling referee with no room for breathing. Naruto's score sounds dated too because it uses an old Japanese style. By the way, Bruce didn't compose all of the songs himself as Faulconer Productions consisted of four people or so. He and his team didn't return to do GT and the first two seasons of DBZ Uncut due to starting trouble with FUNimation and ultimately getting sued by them in the end.

 

I think the experience seems "dry" to you because from what I can tell, you've only really seen the dub. Japanese DBZ is a different experience, but it's also the original experience and I just don't think an old show like Dragon Ball Z needed a modern, hardcore techno-rock taste to try to make it better than what it already was. It just seems disrespectful to me.

Edited March 22, 2013 by MugiMikey

[MamboCat]

Hmm... I went on a Japanese Dragonball/DBZ binge last year after finding a bunch of videos on YouTube. I kinda like the Japanese Dragonball music, but the DBZ ones I have to say I don't remember at all. The Ocean dub music I have a feeling was just borrowed from another cartoon, and when the switch was made on Cartoon Network to the other cast, the new music also kicked in...

 

I seem to remember finding Cell's theme sounding like some kind of trance music... and well Vegeta's theme always kicks ass.

 

Also, if we're allowed to post funny DBZ images, I saw this the other day:

 

[lounge]

You're complaining that the Kikuchi score sounds old but you're forgetting that DBZ is old. Hell, even the way the story is told is supposed to give it a fairy tale-esque vibe. It sounds dated, but saying it sounds like it's from the 1950s seems ignorant to me. Have you heard enough of it? Shunsuke Kikuchi composed it in a '70s-ish style, which is old, but he started composing for the show in the '80s. Wasn't considered that old at the time but it did give it that mystical feeling. Dragon Ball is meant to be one of those fantasy tales with a grandpa-ish narrator telling the story (the dubs of Dragon Ball and DB Kai got this right), not a wrestling referee with no room for breathing. Naruto's score sounds dated too because it uses an old Japanese style. By the way, Bruce didn't compose all of the songs himself as Faulconer Productions consisted of four people or so. He and his team didn't return to do GT and the first two seasons of DBZ Uncut due to starting trouble with FUNimation and ultimately getting sued by them in the end.

 

I think the experience seems "dry" to you because from what I can tell, you've only really seen the dub. Japanese DBZ is a different experience, but it's also the original experience and I just don't think an old show like Dragon Ball Z needed a modern, hardcore techno-rock taste to try to make it better than what it already was. It just seems disrespectful to me.

It doesn't matter what time period DBZ came out, because it's timeless, like star wars. The animation and look of it is top notch and gorgeous. It's also an epic, fantasy show. The original dragon ball has the more mystical feel you're talking about. It was more laid back and more martial arts oriented. DBZ was more energized. My problem is the japanese score doesn't reflect this. It just feels out of place to me. Lots of quiet moments with no music. Any time there's a fight scene it just doesn't have the same impact on me. It feels slower. That and I can't stand the japanese voice actors.

I'm not exaggerating when I said it sounds like it's from the '50's. It really does to me. It reminds me of the old frankenstein or dracula or any other corny horror movie from way back then.

 

Kai is no better. The new music still sounds very dated and boring to me.

 

And as for Naruto. Yes the music is very japanese oriented, but the sound quality and use of synthesizers and beats really gives it a modern flavor. Sonic CD, another great example where the original music today sounds incredibly fresh and fun.

 

I still don't understand the sueing thing. What happened?

[MugiMikey]

DBZ's animation wasn't always top-notch. It depended on the animation studio. DBZ still has that mystical feeling. The reason why DBZ feels more energized to you is because that's what FUNimation turned DBZ into. DBZ was only fast-paced at times, not constantly. It has its fair share of slower moments, too. The dub music was constantly loud and energetic, which is what makes people think the show is nothing but fast-paced action with little to no story involved. Personally, I think the Japanese voice actors are wonderful and wouldn't change them in the slightest. The sound quality of the show is in mono which makes it sound old, but the music was recorded in stereo. Also, yes, it does sound corny sometimes, but Dragon Ball Z is corny. It's not just hardcore, energized, fast-paced constant action.

 

Yamamoto's Kai score was created with Kikuchi in mind so I suppose it sounds older too, but the Dragon Ball franchise is supposed to be like an old tale, as I've said. Sonic CD was created with constant fast-paced music in mind, DBZ was not.

 

And I don't know all the exact details, but I do know that FUNimation didn't want to hire Bruce to do GT to give it a newer feel. Maybe Mark Menza offered to work for less? I don't know. All I know is FUNi didn't want Bruce's music, and Bruce got really upset so he distributed personal contact information of the people that worked at FUNimation so his fans could harass/beg them into hiring him for GT. This brought Bruce and FUNi to court, and Bruce then ended up suing over royalties. Soon after, with all the controversy he caused, FUNi ended up counter-suing him. That was pretty much the last of him.

Edited March 23, 2013 by MugiMikey

[lounge]

That's a shame. I looked into it more, and it looks like he really wanted to continue composing for GT and more movies. He really did love the series.

I'm also surprised to find that Funi and some of the voice actors didn't like Faulconer's score. Perhaps they're purists. Sucks...

 

I don't know if I'll even be able to watch Battle of the Gods now. I wouldn't even mind if they did what they did with the DBZ movies and use songs from bands. I actually really liked the song choices in the movies.

[MugiMikey]

It wasn't just him working on the music. There were three other people; Bruce only did 1/4 of it. He was in the wrong for distributing the staff at FUNi's personal information which in turn put him and his company, as well as their relationship with FUNimation, in jeopardy. He pretty much shot himself in the foot. I know FUNi didn't like Bruce's score, but why would they be purists if it's their job to dub anime? Haha. Maybe they just like the original more because they feel it's a better fit.

 

There's no way FUNi will replace the music in any Dragon Ball licenses anymore, especially Battle of Gods. That's an old practice that companies abandoned long ago.

[lounge]

It wasn't just him working on the music. There were three other people; Bruce only did 1/4 of it.

There's no way FUNi will replace the music in any Dragon Ball licenses anymore, especially Battle of Gods. That's an old practice that companies abandoned long ago.

Well I don't think it's fair to assume just because there were 4 people working on sound, that that automatically means the work was equally divided, or that they all worked on each song by themselves.

 

I just hope the Battle of the Gods music doesn't suck. I'm worried it won't be cinematic.

[MugiMikey]

No, it's true. Here's a bit of trivia: Bruce actually didn't do most of the Buu saga music himself. The SSJ3 Theme, the New Earth Theme, and many others were created by Julius Dobos. Even when the team was hired to do music for DBZ, it was Mike Smith that handled most of the Namek, Freeza, and Androids music. It was pretty much divided equally, and if it wasn't, every member got their fair share of arrangement.

 

Also, I'm sure the music in Battle of Gods won't suck. Just watch it with an open mind and don't expect anything along the lines of Faulconer Productions and I think you'll be fine.

Edited March 23, 2013 by MugiMikey

[Space☆Tomoki]

New clip from Battle of Gods:

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2013/03/21/apples-itunes-store-updated-in-promotion-of-battle-of-gods/

 

Beers is talking with Whis about Super Saiyan God and SSJ3 Goku gets his ass handed to him by Beers.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Tomoki Sakurai

[goku262002]

Ok. lets solve this. What is Billis's official name? because so far I've seen 4 different spellings of it and Beers is the by far most retarded one.

[Space☆Tomoki]

Ok. lets solve this. What is Billis's official name? because so far I've seen 4 different spellings of it and Beers is the by far most retarded one.

Not sure, to be honest. They haven't really come out and said what it is yet, which annoys me. I chose to use Beers, because it's a pun name, which Toriyama is known for doing with many Dragon Ball characters.

 

EDIT: For example, Emperor Pilaf is named after Rice Pilaf, Bulma and her family have an underwear theme, Saiyans are named after Vegetables, Freeza and his family have a 'cold' theme, some characters were named after Chinese dishes, like Yamcha and Tenshinhan (Tien), etc.

Edited March 25, 2013 by Tomoki Sakurai

[MugiMikey]

Ok. lets solve this. What is Billis's official name? because so far I've seen 4 different spellings of it and Beers is the by far most retarded one.

There's no official word yet, but in Romaji it reads as Birusu. It can be Bills, Beers, Beels, Beerus, Biroosu, or anything of that nature...

 

However, an interesting theory popped up somewhere that his name is a pun based on Hill's brand cat food. For the Katakana spelling, you just need to switch a little accent mark and "Hills" becomes "Bills." If this is true, then Whis, the guy that's always with Bills, is most likely named after Whiskers/Whiskas/whatever brand cat food.

 

Either that or it really is "Beers" and Whis is named after whisky. It's not "retarded." Toriyama names most of his characters after ridiculous things anyway.

Edited March 25, 2013 by MugiMikey

[-Robin-]

With Whis being stronger than Bills, it makes sense that Bills is named after Beers, because whiskey is stronger than beer, as some sayings go.