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Dragon Ball (Warning: Untagged Spoilers)


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Typing this post was a bitch, Ratcicle King. If you gonna respond to me, can you do it like this?:

Well that's the thing, Gohan NEVER wanted to be a warrior, it's been said since the begining of the series, he only dd that to avenge his father, and after that he wanted to live a normal life, the whole arc of the Buu saga is about Goku trying to find someone to take over the role of saving the world, someone who WANTS to do so, because he saw how Gohan finally has a normal life for once, and doesn't want to drag him into the fights once again, he tried Goten and Trunks since both of them wanted to fight, but he soon realised how they're just kids after all, so much that the series ended with him training Uub, you know, so he can have someone to take his place who wants to fight and help everyone.

 

 Gohan is naturally  a pacifist, yes. However, he still should have accepted his role as Earth's greatest defender. It doesn't matter if he didn't love fighting like Goku. He should have done the mature thing and take his responsibility. The saga really should have focused on Gohan accepting his duty to defend Earth.

  

Goku said it himself: He's dead, he's not supposed to take care of the business of the living, at that point he was trying to make Goten and Trunks get enough time to grow into the warriors he belives they can become, because he is dead, and he won't be there to help them forever, he'll be gone in less than a day, and if another threat shows up, then the world would have no one capable enough to take care of it, especially with Gohan and Vegeta dead.

In Goku's head, it probably was like this: He's dead,  he has no way to come back, nor does he want to, because one day on Earth and another threat shows up, proving his point that he's a disaster magnet, so he MUST keep himself dead and not deal with business of the living, so he'll leave it for Gohan and Vegeta... But then they die, so he goes for the only two living warriors with enough power to help, Goten and Trunks, and he knows they're inexperienced, that's why he asked Piccolo to train them, so he did his best to help without getting too much involved with that, and left when his time ended.

 

  He's not supposed to take care of the business of the living ... even though it was HIS fault things screwed up? If Goku played no role at all in Majin Buu's genocide, then him not wanting to get involved in mortal affairs would work. But no. It was Goku's fault why things screwed up. Had he never appeared, Vegeta would have never become a Majin. Had he finished Vegeta off immediately as a Super Saiyan 3, Buu would not have been released. Had he destroyed Buu immediately as a Super Saiyan, way fewer people would have died.

 

It's been said over and over that Saiyan/Human Hybrids have an easier time becoming Super Saiyan, and Toriyama handwaved somewhere that unborn baby saiyans can trade their tails for an easier time unlocking the Super Saiyan if one of their parents can already go Super Saiyan.

They had some character during the first episodes, before Buu showed up, it is there, you just need to take a good look to find.

 

 That's a very stupid rule. There's not an official, confirmed explanation as to why Goten and Trunks could go Super Saiyan so easily. Just because the anime adds something doesn't necessarily make it so. 

 

Vegeta, got his own character arc on the saga, heck, it was probably the best handling of the character on the series, since it lampshaded how he went soft, showed him trying to force himself into going back to being evil, but failing because of the time he spent on Earth, and accepting that not only he's now a father and has a family, but that Goku is better than him, giving the character some closure.

Besides, considering how Videl got involved, and Satan was already involved because of the fame he got from the Cell Games, it wouldn't make sense if he just disappeared, not even trying to fight Buu even once, since he was the champion that defeated Cell on the eyes of everyone, after all.

 

 What development Vegeta had in the Buu saga was the best part of the saga. But he still should have had more. Goku had his time to shine for the whole series. Gohan had his time to shine in the Cell saga. The only other character who needed major focus was Vegeta. I'm not saying Satan should have disappeared, but he shouldn't have had as much focus he ended up getting.

 

Goku was dead and had no plans of going back to life, all other warriors were either dead or already on their last legs on the fight, the Potara was obviously a last resort situation since it meant sacrificing two willing lives for the fusion, not only that, but even if Gohan had to fuse, he'd still need the power up so he'd have more power for the Potara fusion, especially because at the time, there was no one like Goku or Vegeta alive, who were the two best fighters of the show by that point, being the only ones that never stopped training.

 

 It doesn't matter if Goku didn't plan on coming back. It was his fault things got bad, so he should have took responsibility for it. The Potara worked terribly as a last resort method. Why would Old Kai do a very long ritual to make Gohan strong enough to beat Buu ... when he could have just had Goku and Gohan fuse, which would have taken a much shorter amount of time. When Old Kai showed up, Majin Buu was in his Fat form. Goku could have beaten Fat Buu by himself let alone fused.

 

While it might have been redundant, Gohan, Gotenks, Goku and Vegeta gangbanging Kid Buu and ending the final battle in five minutes wouldn't be as interesting and cool for the FINAL BATTLE OF THE WHOLE SERIES. The Spirit Bomb, while redundant, ended the series with a bang.

 

 You see, Toriyama wrote himself to a hole with the things he was doing in the Buu saga. Yes, it wouldn't have been exciting if Goku, Vegeta, Gohan and Gotenks just ganged up on Kid Buu. The only he could do to make it interesting was to give us an unnecessary Spirit Bomb ending. That's another reason why the saga should have been different.

 

There's when you look at the arc as a whole. Goku started the series living a normal life, but got dragged into fight after fight to save his friends and try to save the world, every time with bigger stakes, when it all culminated on him deciding that since Gohan is stronger than him, Gohan should take the sword on saving the world, with him dying for the sake of keeping the world safe from anything that might have a beef with him, while Gohan can take care of any future threats. But in the Buu saga, Goku notices how Gohan is living a normal life, but he is being dragged into a fight, just like what happened at the begining with Goku, so he starts looking for someone who was WILLING to accept the role, instead of dragging Gohan out of guilt for his death, and you can see how he tries to make Goten and Trunks, and even Vegeta to some extent, take the role for him, but then after he fought Buu, and learned he'd revive into a better person, not only he now knows someone stronger than all other warriors, but who's a nice person and would probably very well accept the role of the hero of Earth.

 

 Again, the saga should have focused on Gohan accepting his duty as Earth's defender, so there'd be no need for Goku to return to life and Uub to appear.

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Sorry about that last post, I was feeling kind of lazy at the time :U

But about your point of Gohan accepting his duty as the defender of the planet, that's the thing, he'd be doing it out of guilt, it wouldn't be the best way to end the series if Goku just guilt tripped Gohan into becoming the hero his father wanted him to be, it would make Goku look like a dick in the grand scheme of things, heck, even during the Cell Games, Goku pretty much said that if he's gone and Cell's dead, Gohan can live the normal life he wants to have, that's what he always wanted, for his son to be happy, he at first thought Gohan loved fighting like him, and that was his big mistake, and why the plan to unleash Gohan's SSJ2 power almost failed at the Cell Games, guilt tripping him into becoming the new hero would just prove that Goku didn't learn a thing about what happened, but when you consider he just wanted Gohan to live a happy life, not having to care for being a hero, it's easy to see why he decided to choose someone else in the end. One of the reasons Goku came back was because Toriyama didn't think Gohan worked as a main hero that well on this story, and that is true, because he hates fighting and hates being dragged into the fights just because ''It's his duty'', he wants to help, sure, so much that he became a super hero, but even then it's local crimes, and he does his best to never actually hurt someone while doing so, in a battle, he'll have to badly injure, if not outright kill, the enemy, the only times he ever considered killing were the times where his anger took over, but by the Buu saga he had almost full control of that anger and wanted to simply live a normal life, and Goku understood that and tried to find someone else so his kid would be happy and wouldn't have the weight of the world on his back.

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Didn't Gohan try accepting the role of Hero of the earth when he became Great Saiyanman? Seems like he was doing something pretty mature until he got taken out of the fight, and he seemed to take a little shine to fighting by participating in the Tournament?

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Sorry about that last post, I was feeling kind of lazy at the time :U

But about your point of Gohan accepting his duty as the defender of the planet, that's the thing, he'd be doing it out of guilt, it wouldn't be the best way to end the series if Goku just guilt tripped Gohan into becoming the hero his father wanted him to be, it would make Goku look like a dick in the grand scheme of things, heck, even during the Cell Games, Goku pretty much said that if he's gone and Cell's dead, Gohan can live the normal life he wants to have, that's what he always wanted, for his son to be happy, he at first thought Gohan loved fighting like him, and that was his big mistake, and why the plan to unleash Gohan's SSJ2 power almost failed at the Cell Games, guilt tripping him into becoming the new hero would just prove that Goku didn't learn a thing about what happened, but when you consider he just wanted Gohan to live a happy life, not having to care for being a hero, it's easy to see why he decided to choose someone else in the end. One of the reasons Goku came back was because Toriyama didn't think Gohan worked as a main hero that well on this story, and that is true, because he hates fighting and hates being dragged into the fights just because ''It's his duty'', he wants to help, sure, so much that he became a super hero, but even then it's local crimes, and he does his best to never actually hurt someone while doing so, in a battle, he'll have to badly injure, if not outright kill, the enemy, the only times he ever considered killing were the times where his anger took over, but by the Buu saga he had almost full control of that anger and wanted to simply live a normal life, and Goku understood that and tried to find someone else so his kid would be happy and wouldn't have the weight of the world on his back.

 

 Gohan wouldn't be taking the mantle of defender of the Earth out of guilt. In fact, part of why he'd stay away from fighting should have been because of the guilt he felt. He'd study to escape the pain of trying to do what he failed to do: protect his loved one. And Goku doesn't look like a dick for wanting Gohan to take up his sword.

 

 Say you're an extremely powerful being. What would be more important/the mature thing to do? To pursue your personal dreams? Or to keep the Universe safe? It's the latter. With great power comes great responsibility. It doesn't matter if Gohan didn't want to fight. He should have cut the crap and accept that it was his responsibility to keep the Universe safe. Sure, he didn't enjoy fighting, but the Majin Buu saga should have focused on Gohan realizing that protecting the Earth was more important than his other dreams. If the story was done like that, there would be no reason to bring Goku back to life or Uub. It was already established that Goku was leaving things in Gohan's hands at the end of the Cell Saga. Going back on that was terrible for the story.

 

 The story should have ended with Vegeta sacrificing his life to defeat the final villain, staying dead and joining with and fighting Goku in the Afterlife. Before Goku would go back to the Afterlife for good, there would be an emotional scene with Goku and Gohan that would bring an end to all the guilt Gohan felt over Goku's death. Gohan would then be mentally capable of taking the responsibility of being Earth's defender. Gohan would be a new man. He'd have grown up, like any other person.

 

 

 

Didn't Gohan try accepting the role of Hero of the earth when he became Great Saiyanman? Seems like he was doing something pretty mature until he got taken out of the fight, and he seemed to take a little shine to fighting by participating in the Tournament?

 

 

 Gohan did a very sloppy job of protecting the Earth after Goku's death. He'd patrol as the Great Saiyaman, but he did not keep his training up, making him weaker than how he was as a kid.

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http://youtu.be/sp60avoyT9k

 

DBZ Battle of Gods Trailer.

 

Also the voice cast has been announced. Looks like just about everyone's reprising their roles, which is awesome (including Chris Rager as Hercule/Mr. Satan. yesssssssssssssssssss)

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Just about to post that too.

 

 

EDIT: Oh hey, even Meredith McCoy is reprising her role as Android 18. That's cool.

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Huh, weird they got McCoy to return for 18. I wondered why they recast her in Kai when, to my knowledge, she was still working with FUNimation at the time (most recent role I can think of is Maria Ross in FMA: Brotherhood, was there anything else?). That's cool though, I always liked her take on the character, not that there's anything wrong with Clinkenbeard's version either (which leans a little younger, whilst McCoy's is much tougher). Makes me wonder if she'll be stepping in to reprise the role for the Kai Buu saga. Looks most of the other recasts are permanent changes (Monica Rial as Bulma and Brina Palencia as Chaozu and Puar, for example), which is fine by me.

 

Love the trailer though, and the bits of the dub sound like it could be "Kai" quality. Beers's voice sounds pretty fitting from what I can tell, so I look forward to seeing more of him when the movie comes out. I probably won't be able to catch it in theatres, but hopefully this means the home video release will be primed for pre-order soon!

 

I love how they made sure to let a few curses slip into that trailer; I'm sure everyone who thinks DBZ has tons of cursing and isn't a kids' show lost their minds over that. tongue.png

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I forget is Meredith McCoy the new or old VA for Lazuli/18?

 

The original voice. Clinkenbeard voiced her for Kai and I think the recent games.

 

Not sure why she was recast when she was still working with FUNi at the time, unless there was some kind of scheduling conflict (I believe she's a musician as well?) that prevented her from returning to voice 18 at the time.

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The original voice. Clinkenbeard voiced her for Kai and I think the recent games.

 

Not sure why she was recast when she was still working with FUNi at the time, unless there was some kind of scheduling conflict (I believe she's a musician as well?) that prevented her from returning to voice 18 at the time.

 

Maybe she's unionized? Or maybe this was just that big of a deal to bring her back vs Kai. Ah well; too bad they couldn't bring back Tiffany Volmer. I liked her valley girl Bulma.

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I can't watch that trailer because Funi no like filthy British peasants, but I always did prefer Clinkenbeard's take on 18. I guess it's because I can never shake off the mindset of 17 and 18 likely being... well, 17 and 18 years old, but McCoy's take just reminds me a lot of 4Kids!Rouge - she sounds unnaturally older than she probably is. Clinkenbeard just sounds more natural and like an actual teenager, and has more emotion in her voice.

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Maybe she's unionized? Or maybe this was just that big of a deal to bring her back vs Kai. Ah well; too bad they couldn't bring back Tiffany Volmer. I liked her valley girl Bulma.

 

There's no union for actors in TX to my knowledge. I believe it's all "right to work" similar to New York. Though, FUNi does occasionally call in some union voice actors from California (which is union) once in a while, so I'm really not sure how that works.

 

Vollmer actually wasn't a bad Bulma around Buu-era Z or most of her later appearances (Dragon Ball). I actually didn't care for the really valley-girl sounding voice, but she really toned it down to emphasize Bulma's intelligence later on. Monica Rial was a suitable replacement though, and I never had a problem with her.

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[video snip]

Best DBZ opening? Best DBZ opening

Nah.

 

:P

Actually, I quite like this new Kai opening. I got tired of "Dragon Soul" after a while and this one actually sounds pretty good and fits very well with what Dragon Ball's all about. I think I like the feel of "We Gotta Power" more, dated as it is by today's standards.

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We're talking about DragonBall Openings and not mentioning the original, what's wrong with all of you.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KuULfz1hYE

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We're talking about DragonBall Openings and not mentioning the original, what's wrong with all of you.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KuULfz1hYE

 

Nothing wrong with being second best!

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We're talking about DragonBall Openings and not mentioning the original, what's wrong with all of you.

[snip]

Forgive me, Father, for I have sinned...

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Jeez, why is Goku pulling that Turles face in that Buu Kai OP video? It's so off. :V

Don't really prefer any DB OP over another, but Yeah Break Care Break is my favorite ED, followed by Angel.

Now if video game themes were thrown into the mix, Ore Wa Tokoton Tomaranai wins out. Especially the instrumental. Followed by Hikari No Sasu Mirai E.

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Info one the international version of the buu arc kai, from the South Korean version.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2014/06/21/dragon-ball-kai-majin-buu-arc-alternate-production-details/

Alternate opening and ending.

Wow seriously?! another OP and ED thats Japanese?

Hmm, makes me wonder if they have 2 OPs/EDs planned and they just showed the 2nd one first...

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Wow seriously?! another OP and ED thats Japanese?Hmm, makes me wonder if they have 2 OPs/EDs planned and they just showed the 2nd one first...

Their sung in Engrish. The opening is sung by the guy who sung the openings for Hunter X hunter 2011.

Saiyaman is 3 episodes. the music placement and editing are better then the Fuji TV version.

In other news do we really need Kyle Hebert back as the narrator in battle of gods?

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Man, this show has gotten so many people at Kazenshuu pissed. Apparently the aspect ratio is 16:9 and the first few episodes seem more like Z episodes than they do recuts. It really does suck for the Japanese and makes Toei out to be more greedy than usual, especially since the music sucks hard in this version. 

 

(Though I really like, "Fight it out" vs that other song for Kai.)

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Wait which one the JP or international version?

Falco you gotta keep in mind that this is going to have a movie appearance, so they probably want it to hit the nostalgia strings a bit and having the old "NEXT TIME ON DRAGON. BALL. Z!!!" announcer will do that.

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Man, this show has gotten so many people at Kazenshuu pissed. Apparently the aspect ratio is 16:9 and the first few episodes seem more like Z episodes than they do recuts. It really does suck for the Japanese and makes Toei out to be more greedy than usual, especially since the music sucks hard in this version.

(Though I really like, "Fight it out" vs that other song for Kai.)

My understanding with the 16:9 thing is what they did in Japan for the first 98 episodes of the broadcast. The show itself (Kai) is 4:3 and was produced as such, but cropped for TV, and Toei released a 4:3 version for Blu-Ray (the 16:9 version was released on DVD over there). When FUNi picked up the show, they were given the HD 4:3 masters. I would think that's what we're getting whenever it finally airs over here... but who knows with Toei?

I can't comment on anything else short of Toei just being lazy and not giving a shit because Dragon Ball sells regardless.

Huh, I wasn't aware Hebert was returning to narrate "Battle of Gods". Cool! His narration sounds great later on, without resorting to making the show sound like a wrestling match (Dale Kelly) though the "next time..." bit did have a bit of that flare, I admit... I personally liked Doc Morgan's narration in Kai as well, as it sounded warmer and calmer, but Hebert could hit that sort of beat when the writing/direction allowed it.

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