Dragon Ball (Warning: Untagged Spoilers)

[Soniman]

2 hours ago, Diamond said:

Well, to be fair, Trunks is a half breed sayian.

Half Breed Sayians are stronger than regular sayians.

But unlike Gohan Trunks was never really foreshadowed having great potential, he had to get where he was through hard training until SSR came along, which was given to via just being angry? 

Idk its weird 

[DiamondX]

1 minute ago, Soniman said:

Idk its weird 

Well, I mean, this is Dragon Ball we are talking about.

Also, am I considered a weeb if I am gonna call it SSJ Ikari? It sounds cooler IMO.

[-Robin-]

All half Saiyans have the potential to surpass the power of full blooded Saiyans.

 

Gohan's just fortunate enough to have that potential so closely tied to his emotions. While anyone can get stronger from pure rage, Gohan gets stronger through it easier than any other. 

[DiamondX]

i dont know, but something tells me Gohan will reach Super Sayian Ikari in the new arc.

[Yoko/葉子]

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2016-12-27/animazement-to-host-voice-actors-hiroaki-hirata-ryusei-nakao-keiko-han/.110375

Looks like Ryusei Nakao and Linda Young are going to meet each other. Frieza meets Frieza! 

[Ratcicle King]

17 hours ago, Diamond said:

Well, I mean, this is Dragon Ball we are talking about.

Also, am I considered a weeb if I am gonna call it SSJ Ikari? It sounds cooler IMO.

SSJ Ikari sounds way cooler. Honestly Super Saiyan Rage/Wrath sounds generic as hell, and kinda redundant, as Super Saiyan IS already a form generated by rage.

[DiamondX]

I saw this question on Reddit and I am not sure myself.

Is Bardock good or bad?

[ThePrinceOfSaiyans]

Oh, he's definitely bad.

[DiamondX]

Yeah, he killed a lot of people, but he did it because Freeza told him.

He tried to protect the Sayians and his son. And if we count the new Bardock Special, he fought for those guys (forgot the race name).

Doen't that make him a good guy? Or should I watch The Father of Goku Special and the Bardock OVA again?

[ThePrinceOfSaiyans]

He'd enjoy slaughtering people with or without Freeza's influence, the same way Vegeta did. 

[DiamondX]

Kinda wierd what the games show then.

1. In Dokkan, all his cards are classed as Super/Hero type.

2. He just became a Time Patroller in DB Heroes.

 

Maybe a neutral person like Shadow? He cared for his friends and his son but yes, he did bad stuff.

[Candescence]

Oh, no question, Bardock is a murderous asshole like the other Saiyans. The thing is, he cares about his kin, especially his son and his wife, and Gine's kindness clearly wasn't enough for him to lose interest if she had a strong enough willpower - after all, if she had a strong enough conviction, that's enough on its own, Vegeta notes that Saiyans are attracted to strong-willed women, regardless of how strong they are (hence why Bulma caught his interest and Goku married Chi-Chi).

Chances are if he had somehow lived beyond the genocide of the Saiyans somehow, though, he would've been the commanding officer of the Saiyan party attacking Earth.

... That actually sounds like a fun what-if, and something Xenoverse 2 actually dabs into in a PQ.

[DiamondX]

Well, I guess I need to rewatch The Father of Goku now.

[Candescence]

Just now, Diamond said:

Well, I guess I need to rewatch The Father of Goku now.

The original dub of that movie did have the obvious attempt to make Bardock more sympathetic by making him a reluctant killer, because 90s dubs, really. I dunno if the film was redubbed at some point much like the rest of the series.

[Soniman]

One thing to remember is that though what Frieza did as terrible he probably made the right call in blowing up Vegeta. Frieza at LEAST wants to rule and control, the Sayians just want to fight and kill indiscriminately, they have very little sympathy of others, even their own race (for the most part) and a very short range of emotions that isn't related to fighting and causing destruction. They'll happily cause a genocide if it means proving their strength. A few good apples like Goku doesn't make up for that. 

And considering Sayians have the potential to become the most powerful non God beings in the universe it and probably a good thing Frieza thinned their numbers drastically 

[Ratcicle King]

One thing you need to remind yourself is that the whole ''Freeza made the Saiyans evil'' was a dub thing, in the original we're flat out told they're a barbaric race, and all Freeza did was giving them the tech to attack other worlds.

In the Japanese version, Vegeta in his dying moments, tells Goku how Freeza destroyed their planet after they loyaly worked for him, however, we're not supposed to just go ''oh they were just under Freeza's control'', we're supposed to understand where Vegeta's pride comes from and why he hated Freeza so much. Goku on the other hand, he realizes he's far removed from this struggle, as he knows or acts nothing like the Saiyan race, so he asks Vegeta to share with him some of his pride for the race so he can at the very least avenge them properly.

So yeah all saiyans are barbaric assholes, they killed and destroyed, only cared for power even when it came to their own comrades, however, not only they were basically enslaved by Freeza and did his dirty work but then died at his hand without even a proper reason. We are supposed to see where Vegeta and Bardock are coming from here, but not to feel sorry for them, they are cold blooded murderers, no two ways around it, and the universe is better without them.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

I've never seen Father of Goku, but the way I always saw it was that Bardock was a bad guy. Most definitely. He was like Vegeta. Full of pride, and egotistic. Bardock most certainly wasn't the worst saiyan, like we know that not all saiyans were evil (Gine certainly seemed nice enough, Tarble was banished because he was too nice etc), and Bardock seems to have a lot of care for his family, and his squad, as well of his race. But that doesn't change the fact that Bardock still willingly attacked other planets and even when he saw Goku's future, he wasn't really caring much about a lot of Goku's exploits, other than him going up against Frieza. 

The real best argument that could be made for Bardock possibly changing his ways is when he went up against Chilled in the Episode of Bardock special, but even then, since I never saw that either, I don't know if he actively did that to protect the locals, or if he did it for his own motives. 

[Ratcicle King]

Episode of Bardock is REALLY non canon tho' :U

[Soniman]

It's also really bad on top of it

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Well, like I said, I never saw it, and only had a vague knowing that Bardock goes up against Chilled in it.

[Zaysho]

6 hours ago, Ryannnumber1gamer said:

I've never seen Father of Goku, but the way I always saw it was that Bardock was a bad guy. Most definitely. He was like Vegeta. Full of pride, and egotistic. Bardock most certainly wasn't the worst saiyan, like we know that not all saiyans were evil (Gine certainly seemed nice enough, Tarble was banished because he was too nice etc), and Bardock seems to have a lot of care for his family, and his squad, as well of his race. But that doesn't change the fact that Bardock still willingly attacked other planets and even when he saw Goku's future, he wasn't really caring much about a lot of Goku's exploits, other than him going up against Frieza. 

Well, there's two different versions of Bardock. The one that originated from the TV special (please watch it; it is one of the best pieces of Dragon Ball animation from the time period. Just make sure it's in Japanese because good lord the dub is just bad) and Toriyama's take from the Dragon Ball Minus chapter of Jaco the Galactic Patrolman. I have a lot of issues with DB Minus, though a lot of it primarily squared on how he chose to treat the circumstances of Goku being sent out to Earth (I can buy his characterization of Bardock to a degree given Vegeta and Bulma's relationship) and the implication that Goku's gentle nature is just an inherited trait from his mother and not something that was largely influenced by Grandpa Gohan and, later, Kami. The story itself doesn't directly contradict anything Toriyama wrote for Dragon Ball, but it disregards the "nurture over nature" idea that Kamesenin uses to explain why Goku ended up so different from Raditz and the other Saiyans (Kamesenin outright says that Gohan described Goku as uncontrollable and wild up until his head injury).

I'm actually perfectly fine with characters like Gine and Tarble, in fact I like them (I have a Gine figure), and Battle of Gods sort of supports Saiyans like them weren't unheard of, just rare. The Super Saiyan God legend suggesting there were some purehearted Saiyans, and they were always at odds with the other Saiyans (who wants to bet that's a workaround to ignore the Tsuffles Toei's been telling us about for twenty years? :V).

To Toriyama's credit, I think he manages to portray Bardock as mostly the coldblooded killer with a love of fighting you'd expect him to be, but with the edges softened and explained away as a result of being married to Gine. It works, even if everything else surrounding that just annoys me. In the end, this is where I side with Toei rather than Toriyama (I assume Gine was there somewhere--I like to picture a scene where she visits the baby Kakarot in the nursery just before he's sent out, she has a conversation with Bardock and he just kind of ignores her because he'd rather to get back to his crew than really give much thought to a child he assumed was worthless because of his Battle Power).

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Honestly, I'd love something, let it be Super or something non-canon where Goku gets to finally meet Gine. A lot of non-canon material went into Goku meeting Bardock, but Gine always seems to be ignored, and I think it'd be cool to see her interacting with Goku seeing as she is known as one of the kinder saiyans.

[DiamondX]

So kinda like Naruto meeting his mother? That sounds sweet.

But the problem is that probably Goku doesn't CARE about Gine or Bardock.

[Soniman]

Goku doesn't give a shit about Bardock or the rest of the sayians because he was raised on earth, so the chances of him meeting mom is unlikely 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Y'know, there's something ironic. Vegeta was presented as one of the biggest overall villains in the series, and yet technically, Bardock is more of a villain than him. Vegeta went on to redeem himself, and become a hero, despite all of his previous villainous actions. Bardock, despite being presented as one of the more heroic characters from the offset is still pretty much evil, and died evil, even if it was trying to protect his race. It was still a race of warriors willing to destroy anything for the shits and giggles.