Sonic Generations: Two Years Later

[Bright Eyes]

Ya know what you're right? Why the fuck should I care about a series that I love enough to stay with for 10 years of my life, buy every single game, and make essays about. No, clearly I should just sit down and not criticize a damn thing, and accept whatever half assed product Sonic Team shovel out, and make up excuses on why everyone should love this game.

It seems so much of a waste of time. You are just buying into games you don't like and wasting your time complaining about it on a forum. I mean if you prefer the older games, why don't you try out different plat-formers you will probably actually like.

Little Big Planet, Rayman, The old Mario games, Jak and Daxter, Ratchet and Clank, Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, the Oddworld games e.t.c

Edited October 27, 2012 by Bright Eyes

[Kuzu]

It's mainly the broad generalisations and belittling of opinions that clash with your own that makes them upset, not the general criticism. Beyond that, if you wanna follow a series you don't like anymore, then be my guest.

Maybe people should stop getting so offended when somebody criticizes a game they like, it's a video game there's no reason to get so sensitive about it.

[Soniman]

Just because some people like a series doesn't mean they have to like every single game ever.

I like Jak and Daxter but I dislike Lost Frontier

I like Ratchet and Clank but I dislike Ratchet 1

I like Mega Man but I fucking despise Xover

I like Zelda but I dislike Twilight Princess.

You can choose to follow a series with games you don't like, I'm sure that's the case with every fan of nearly any decently running series.

Edited October 27, 2012 by Soniman

[Emmett L. Brown]

Maybe people should stop getting so offended when somebody criticizes a game they like, it's a video game there's no reason to get so sensitive about it.

Maybe you should take your own advice right now.

[Kuzu]

It seems so much of a waste of time. You are just buying into games you don't like and wasting your time complaining about it on a forum. I mean if you prefer the older games, why don't you try out different plat-formers you will probably actually like.

Little Big Planet, Rayman, The old Mario games, Jak and Daxter, Ratchet and Clank, Crash Bandicoot, Spyro, the Oddworld games e.t.c

Because contrary to what you believe, I DO like Sonic, and it's because I like Sonic that I can criticize the series like this, I'm not going to accept a half assed game, and neither should anybody else.

[Bright Eyes]

Just because some people like a series doesn't mean they have to like every single game ever.

I like Jak and Daxter but I dislike Lost Frontier

I like Ratchet and Clank but I dislike Ratchet 1

I like Mega Man but I fucking despise Xover

I like Zelda but I dislike Twilight Princess.

Of course but if you keep getting disappointed I really think you should leave the franchise and try something different. I've done it with Crash Bandicoot, Spyro and even Sonic.

Otherwise you will be bitter and depressed in old age

Because contrary to what you believe, I DO like Sonic, and it's because I like Sonic that I can criticize the series like this, I'm not going to accept a half assed game, and neither should anybody else.

But the games you are calling 'half-assed' are actually good. What was the past Sonic game you actually enjoyed if I may ask?

[Kuzu]

Maybe you should take your own advice right now.

Criticizing a game on it's flaws counts as getting personally involved?

[Solkia]

"Stop criticizing things I like"

[DarkLight]

BrightEyes: That shouldn't mean dropping a series you like just because you have problems with it. One of the best things about being a good (not "true") fan is taking the good with the bad.

Edited October 27, 2012 by DarkLightDragon

[Jack / Joker]

Sonic Generations was extremely disappointing since it could have been the biggest Sonic game of all time, but failed to deliver in almost every area (except Graphics and Music, of course). It could have been so much, but I still love it for what it is. Sonic Generations was even more disappointing than Sonic '06 in my opinion, but it's still easily the best game since 1998 in my opinion and one of my most played current-era games alongside GTA IV and Arkham City.

Sometimes I like to think about what SG could have been, but I try not to dwell on it since we won't get a game in this style again until 2021...

[Kuzu]

But the games you are calling 'half-assed' are actually good. What was the past Sonic game you actually enjoyed if I may ask?

I never said Generations wasn't good, I may have said it's an incredibly flawed game but I never said it was outright terrible game.

[PerfectChaos]

You know, if you guys honestly haven't had a satisfying Sonic game in over ten years, maybe it's time to just quit the series? I was thrilled with Sonic Generations, it hit all the right spots with me, and the shortcomings were easy to ignore when I was having so much fun playing the game from start to finish.

For those of you so up in arms about the uncaring Sonic Team that doesn't care about its product yet simultaenously is trying to hard to please the unpleasable fanbase (???) maybe it's time you switched to a different franchise. It's possible that the Sonic games are going to continue to improve, but it's almost certain that that improvement will happen along the same path we're on now, and since you're so darn unhappy with that path, why not just admit that this series isn't what you want anymore?

This is the Sonic series right now. While the majority of the customer base are enjoying the product, it's not gonna drastically change because you're so miserable about it.

Best. Post. Ever.

[Sean]

Okay enough. This is getting far too ridiculous for both sides of the argument and maybe all of you should stop getting so worked up about how other people may feel about the series.

[DarkLight]

EDIT: Delete please.

Edited October 27, 2012 by DarkLightDragon

[Wraith]

Because contrary to what you believe, I DO like Sonic, and it's because I like Sonic that I can criticize the series like this, I'm not going to accept a half assed game, and neither should anybody else.

[Bright Eyes]

BrightEyes: That shouldn't mean dropping a series you like just because you have problems with it. One of the best things about being a good (not "true") fan is taking the good with the bad.

[Emmett L. Brown]

EDIT: Stopping now.

Even though a lot of people have been pining for DLC for this game, I'm glad it didn't get any (aside from Casino Night, which was Day 1). All of the DLC for 06 and Unleashed was just remixed levels and new levels using the existing textures. What people would really want for DLC is brand new level remakes, and I find it highly unlikely that we'd get any.

Just more remixed levels would be really pointless, since we already have 90 short levels based on the main 9.

Edited October 27, 2012 by Grumpy Old Guy

[Nepenthe]

But what is a bad story compared to great music, good graphics (although at times, screens can become cluttered or you can't tell what's happening ahead), nice gameplay, and good presentation? One fifth against four. I know that's 20% and that's a fair amount, but you seem to be working it up to be a bigger issue than it really is.

[Autosaver]

That's another thing. Why do people want a change in gameplay style when Sega FINALLY found one that's consistent and the public actually likes? It can do raw speed and platforming really well. Sure, it doesn't use the momentum gameplay from the classics, but no franchise plays exactly like their 2D games in 3D. Most of the time, they have to take a different approach entirely.

Uh... because the genre is getting stale? This is the third "Boost!!!" game we've had and a lot of the flaws with it are sticking out. Just look at the length of the games. Generation was in development for almost 2 years and we got a total of 9 short zones. If you take Classic out of the equation, you're going to get an even SHORTER game. If Sonic Generations had a perfect formula, then I probably wouldn't care about them reusing it as much. It is just that there are many flaws with it.

Just look at other series. While many had a similar formula, they revolutized them by adding new features. Mario took a complete 360. Zelda added in real time motion swinging action. Metroid added in first person shooting. Etc

I guess I could just ask Dio to find a list of all the problems with the current gamestyle...

Pretty sure Iizuka said that Generations was supposed to be the last game of the current era. I'm sure we'll find some new game changer the next time around.

Edited October 27, 2012 by Autosaver

[Wraith]

Uh... because the genre is getting stale? This is the third "Boost!!!" game we've had and a lot of the flaws with it are sticking out. Just look at the length of the games. Generation was in development for almost 2 years and we got a total of 9 short zones. If you take Classic out of the equation, you're going to get an even SHORTER game.

I guess I could just ask Dio to find a list of all the problems with the current gamestyle...

Pretty sure Iizuka said that Generations was supposed to be the last game of the current era. I'm sure we'll find some new game changer the next time around.

The genre wont get stale if you just wait and see what they do with it when they get their bearings on it instead of asking them to flip the table every 5 seconds because you don't like it the first time around.

The main problem that Sonic has is general consistency between games. Every other game can get away with having 3 games in a row that have the same core gameplay style BUT Sonic. Why? They change shit up too much. They need to find something for 3D Sonic and stick with it, and since the general public is fond of this one, I don't see it going anywhere.

[Your Vest Friend]

Huh. Stuff.

Erm, yeah, haven't changed my opinion on it since I saw some of the gameplay and cutscenes in action and deciphered that it'd be a game that was fun to play but lacked in any sort of depth to the story or interactions and wasted quite a lot of opportunities. Once upon a time that was quite the rebel opinion, but now it's like...pretty neutral.

Also I do not mind that it didn't get (post-release) DLC personally.

[Autosaver]

The genre wont get stale if you just wait and see what they do with it when they get their bearings on it instead of asking them to flip the table every 5 seconds because you don't like it the first time around.

If 5 seconds is 5 years in Luigi the Brawler time, then I understand.

I really don't want Sonic Unleashed Part 4. I want a Sonic Colors 2. I really liked the focus on power ups instead of the mindlessly boosting formula Unleashed started. Put some awesome platforming in there and you got something amazing.

[azoo]

The genre wont get stale if you just wait and see what they do with it when they get their bearings on it instead of asking them to flip the table every 5 seconds because you don't like it the first time around.

The main problem that Sonic has is general consistency between games. Every other game can get away with having 3 games in a row that have the same core gameplay style BUT Sonic. Why? They change shit up too much. They need to find something for 3D Sonic and stick with it, and since the general public is fond of this one, I don't see it going anywhere.

Well, here's a way to look at it.

Admittedly, the Mario series has had a consistent way of playing throughout it's entire romp in the 3D realm. BUT, the Mario Galaxy games introduced a new mechanic: the spin-swing attack thing. Sure, its similar to a previous ability in previous Mario games (the spinny jump in Mario World), but its much different as well. Notably, the entire game is built around it's use because the game is purely dependent on it. It's functions are universal; gimmicks, level design, even enemies are based around its use.

So if we were to remove it in a future 3D Mario game (that's not 3D Land), would it be a bad idea and not be consistent enough? He's had it for two whole games and its incredibly useful, so it'd be weird going back to a simple punch-kick maneuver, or even the simple dive.

....Or at least it would be to you guys, considering that's how it seems to be with removing the boost, thus changing the gameplay up some. See what I'm getting at?

Yeah, its been three games rather, but you probably get my point. In reality, I wouldn't miss the spinny move from the Galaxy games because it kind of cheapens the gameplay, like the boost (but not necessarily). We've seriously got to a point where inconsistency = bad and that's all there is to it. Is it just because we don't like change, or do we not trust Sega to try something new (or old, for that matter)?

Granted this is only kind of on topic to Generations, so I'll try not to let this branch too far off.

Edited October 27, 2012 by Azukara

[Diogenes]

The genre wont get stale if you just wait and see what they do with it when they get their bearings on it instead of asking them to flip the table every 5 seconds because you don't like it the first time around.

It's already stale, and I don't see the gameplay meshing well with other gimmicks. It's not built for anything other than high-speed dodging.

The main problem that Sonic has is general consistency between games. Every other game can get away with having 3 games in a row that have the same core gameplay style BUT Sonic. Why?

Because this gameplay is shallow. Do you understand that different kinds of gameplay can stay interesting for different lengths of time? The reason people are burning out on the modern gameplay is because it doesn't offer much. I don't have any urge to go back to the modern games because I'd just end up pressing the same sequence of buttons with the same timing to see the same things happening. There's only one real way to play them, so there's no room to play with them.

If I were more clever I could probably work out some ideas on the difference between games that are fun to play with, and games that are fun to beat, but I don't have it in me right now...

[Nepenthe]

If 5 seconds is 5 years in Luigi the Brawler time, then I understand.

I really don't want Sonic Unleashed Part 4. I want a Sonic Colors 2. I really liked the focus on power ups instead of the mindlessly boosting formula Unleashed started. Put some awesome platforming in there and you got something amazing.

It's funny, because I don't feel like we've even had an Unleashed Part 2 yet, even ignoring all of the things in Unleashed like the Werehog and explorable hubs and whatnot that they scrapped in subsequent sequels (although these things certainly made that experience what it was, for better or for worse).The Day levels in terms of a design have a fundamentally different and more powerful feeling than Generations' because they have a significantly better flow to them to me, due in part I think to their linearity and their overwhelming use of the 2D/3D camera switching, and also because they make the absolute most of their locations. You go everywhere in them. Generations' Modern Sonic feels a little gimped and thus less fun, and I think it's because they have a lot more of that uninteresting platforming that plagued Colors so much. Unleashed's Day levels are completely committed to the arcade-y, reaction time aspects that make it so fun and are thus more successful at what they do, while Generations sacrifices some of that a bit for level design that just doesn't flow right. Honestly, something is off about the game's Modern Levels that I notice every time I go back and play Dragon Road or something.

Edited October 27, 2012 by Meito Anizawa