[DELETED]

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Silver shares the same species, height, weight, initials, and super-form fur and eye color as Sonic and Shadow. He also shares the same core abilities (Spinning, Super-Speed, Homing Attack). 

About the only things there that hold any weight are the superform and species. Damn near the whole cast has everything else, so that practically makes them clones of Sonic as well.

[Splash the Otter]

Every ones super-form is yellow.

Knuckles' super form is pink.

 

In Sonic Rivals 1 and 2 and Sonic Generations 3DS, he makes use of Sonic's speed and agility.

The gameplay of the Rivals games required everyone to have the same moveset. For example, since when has Rouge been able to spin dash? Generations put Silver in the same "race to the finish" role as Shadow and Mecha Sonic, so it wouldn't have made sense otherwise.

[Sparky]

Tails and Knuckles don't change color at all in Sonic 3 and Knuckles. Knux never became pink and Tails is already golden to begin with. In S3:K, all they did was pulse white. Super Sonic changed to gold but also  pulsed white. Super Tails and Knuckles base sprite is exactly the same as their normal sprite.

Knuckles' super form is pink.

 

The gameplay of the Rivals games required everyone to have the same moveset. For example, since when has Rouge been able to spin dash? Generations put Silver in the same "race to the finish" role as Shadow and Metal Sonic, so it wouldn't have made sense otherwise.

Sonic Generations 3DS has Silver RUNNING at the same speed as Sonic (arms behind the back and everything) instead of just levitating. Rouge has spin jumped since SA2 or at least Heroes (also everyone can Homing Attack and roll in Heroes)

About the only things there that hold any weight are the superform and species. Damn near the whole cast has everything else, so that practically makes them clones of Sonic as well.

Everyone else has a different height and weight unless they are MEANT to be the same height and weight as Sonic.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Everyone else has a different height and weight unless they are MEANT to be the same height and weight as Sonic.

Now you're just making excuses: that still leaves characters like Blaze as a "clone" of Sonic, and disqualifies Metal Sonic as a clone because he weights more than three times as much than Sonic. Only goes to show that height and weight doesn't mean anything towards whether a character is a clone.

[Sparky]

Now you're just making excuses: that still leaves characters like Blaze as a "clone" of Sonic, and disqualifies Metal Sonic as a clone because he weights more than three times as much than Sonic. Only goes to show that height and weight doesn't mean anything towards whether a character is a clone.

Blaze is 95cm. Sonic is 100cm. 

 

Metal Sonic is still the same height. He can't be the exact same weight because he's made of metal and technology and is a robot.

 

The similarities between Sonic, Shadow and Silver are all intentional. It was confirmed sometime around 2006 or something. The reason was because they wanted any games titled "Sonic" "Shadow" or "Silver" to be next to each other and stuff. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Blaze is 95cm. Sonic is 100cm. 

I'm reading the SNN wiki that has them at the exact same height, but regardless of whether we're using SNN or Retro wiki's my point stands on that character's weight and height bears nothing significant over a character being a clone.

 

Metal Sonic is still the same height. He can't be the exact same weight because he's made of metal and technology and is a robot.

Doesn't matter. If you're going to apply height and weight to hold significance of being a clone, then Metal Sonic is disqualified from being one because he weighs more despite being the same height. So you can already see how faulty this logic becomes using weight and height like that, even towards characters blatantly intended to be copy-cats in the first place.

 

The similarities between Sonic, Shadow and Silver are all intentional. It was confirmed sometime around 2006 or something. The reason was because they wanted any games titled "Sonic" "Shadow" or "Silver" to be next to each other and stuff.

The similarities between Sonic and Shadow were intentional, not Silver. Silver was never introduced with any of the same abilities Sonic or Shadow had outside of Chaos Control, species, and Superform, as everything about Silver was completely different down to his silhouette. Sure there were parallels to him and the other two that are noticable that you've mentioned, but as far as comparing to those two he is drastically different in form and abilities, being much slower, having no spin-attacks or rolling, no homing attack, and being reliant on his telekinesis.

 

And even when he did gain the same abilities as Sonic and Shadow, so did everyone else. Tails and Knuckles have been spin-dashing and rolling since the Genesis era, Amy since Heroes and Advance 2, Cream in Advance 2, and come around Heroes every character has potential to use the homing attack in tandem with the Speed formation and even grind on rails, including Big the cat.

 

So if you're going to call Silver a clone, and ignore all his abilities that set him far apart from Sonic and Shadow, then you should call everyone else a clone on the exact same basis. Silver has way too many differences unique to him like everyone else to be called a clone.

[JAiRO]

Tails and Knuckles don't change color at all in Sonic 3 and Knuckles. Knux never became pink and Tails is already golden to begin with. In S3:K, all they did was pulse white. Super Sonic changed to gold but also  pulsed white. Super Tails and Knuckles base sprite is exactly the same as their normal sprite.

But their color still changed from the pulse

 

Sonic Generations 3DS has Silver RUNNING at the same speed as Sonic (arms behind the back and everything) instead of just levitating. 

Well they had to speed him up for the boss fight, wouldn't be much of a fight if he walked around at the speed of '06. This was probably not a design choice, but a balance choice.

 

Rouge has spin jumped since SA2 or at least Heroes (also everyone can Homing Attack and roll in Heroes)

Silver isn't Rouge, nor was he in Heroes. The only main series game he was prominently displayed in had him walking slowly by design, to contrast Sonic and Shadow.

 

Everyone else has a different height and weight unless they are MEANT to be the same height and weight as Sonic.

Most characters fall within a small range, if you can find the interview where they deliberately said it was on purpose I will admit to there being a connection here. Also haven't the stats of Sonic characters changed from game to game, they can be inconsistent. 

 

Please cite your sources.

Knuckles' super form is pink.

 

Yeah that was sort of an oversight on my part. I totally forgot Knuckles has existed as a playable character there for a second. 3&K may be my favorite game, but I never play as Knuckles.

[Sparky]

I was going by Sonic Channel for their heights and weights.

 

Well they had to speed him up for the boss fight, wouldn't be much of a fight if he walked around at the speed of '06. This was probably not a design choice, but a balance choice.

 

 

The fact is, they chose to have Silver RUN instead of flying at superspeeds. 

 

 

So if you're going to call Silver a clone, and ignore all his abilities that set him far apart from Sonic and Shadow, then you should call everyone else a clone on the exact same basis. Silver has way too many differences unique to him like everyone else to be called a clone.

I never said Silver was a clone. My point was he was meant to be very similar to Sonic and Shadow and share certain characteristics that the former 2 share.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I never said Silver was a clone. My point was he was meant to be very similar to Sonic and Shadow and share certain characteristics that the former 2 share.

The whole damn basis of the argument you've been contributing to was about Silver flat out being a clone, not just similar characteristics. And even then that falls short because so do the other characters.

[Sparky]

The whole damn basis of the argument you've been contributing to was about Silver flat out being a clone, not just similar characteristics. And even then that falls short because so do the other characters.

I was just saying that Silver does in fact share physical qualities with Sonic.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I was just saying that Silver does in fact share physical qualities with Sonic.

Yes, we know that. Guess what? So do others. It's nothing special.

[Sparky]

Yes, we know that. Guess what? So do others. It's nothing special.

By physical qualities, I mean looking almost the same as Sonic minus the physical differences they share (color, clothing and quill style).

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

By physical qualities, I mean looking almost the same as Sonic minus the physical differences they share (color, clothing and quill style).

And for the umpteenth time: we know.

 

We can pick at the physical similarities all day, it's not going to get anywhere beyond pedantry.

[VGamer]

Well I've never played the rivals games, nor do I consider them to be canon, Silver only exists in Sonic '06 canonically because with a good future he has no reason to change the past.

 

Technically, Rivals IS canon. Otherwise, how would Sonic and Silver have recognized each other in Sonic Colors DS, or Generations HD/3DS? '06 was erased, thus they canonically first met in Rivals.

 

You know, I kinda wouldn't mind if they gave some sort of air-boost to Silver, akin to Sonic's air-boost in Unleashed-Gens. Since this is Silver though, and seeing as how he's capable of flying a LOT more than Sonic's air-boost in the Silver rival fight in Gens HD, I think it would cool to turn that into some extended air-boost, like some Gens mods actually gave him. Probably give him levitation as his double jump as well? Although also give him a homing attack please, no battle gimmicks with psychokinesis please.

 

But you know, assuming they ever do bring back playable characters in the first place. Which I doubt at this point for another couple of games (if ever).

[Sparky]

Technically, Rivals IS canon. Otherwise, how would Sonic and Silver have recognized each other in Sonic Colors DS, or Generations HD/3DS? '06 was erased, thus they canonically first met in Rivals.

 

You know, I kinda wouldn't mind if they gave some sort of air-boost to Silver, akin to Sonic's air-boost in Unleashed-Gens. Since this is Silver though, and seeing as how he's capable of flying a LOT more than Sonic's air-boost in the Silver rival fight in Gens HD, I think it would cool to turn that into some extended air-boost, like some Gens mods actually gave him. Probably give him levitation as his double jump as well? Although also give him a homing attack please, no battle gimmicks with psychokinesis please.

 

But you know, assuming they ever do bring back playable characters in the first place. Which I doubt at this point for another couple of games (if ever).

Psychokinesis is Silver's answer to Shadow's Chaos Control or Tails' flying. 

[Tani Coyote]

When it comes to Silver, I kind of wish they'd change his direction a bit. In particular, I want him to get locked (for the foreseeable future) permanently in the past a la the Archie comics prior to the reboot. It seems a little too convenient the future is always screwed no matter what he does... though I guess the copout would be that when he doesn't appear in a game it's because the future is good at the moment. Just lock him in the past and bring him out when it would be convenient.

Eliminating his time travel motif would also help put a stake through the heart of DBZ comparisons, so that's a bonus in my book.

This is assuming he's ever put in a plot-relevant role again, of course. For the most part he's been reduced to being just a party character, to the point I'm amazed he wasn't in either All Stars Racing game.

[Sparky]

When it comes to Silver, I kind of wish they'd change his direction a bit. In particular, I want him to get locked (for the foreseeable future) permanently in the past a la the Archie comics prior to the reboot. It seems a little too convenient the future is always screwed no matter what he does... though I guess the copout would be that when he doesn't appear in a game it's because the future is good at the moment. Just lock him in the past and bring him out when it would be convenient.

Eliminating his time travel motif would also help put a stake through the heart of DBZ comparisons, so that's a bonus in my book.

This is assuming he's ever put in a plot-relevant role again, of course. For the most part he's been reduced to being just a party character, to the point I'm amazed he wasn't in either All Stars Racing game.

Being from the future and time travelling to ensure a Good Future is also a big part of his character.

[VGamer]

Psychokinesis is Silver's answer to Shadow's Chaos Control or Tails' flying. 

 

Yeah they can't really retcon that at this point, I'm just saying I don't want any more battle-centric gameplay where all you do is pick up boxes and hurl them at generic robots with the most wonky physics ever.

 

*ahem*

[JAiRO]

Technically, Rivals IS canon. Otherwise, how would Sonic and Silver have recognized each other in Sonic Colors DS, or Generations HD/3DS? '06 was erased, thus they canonically first met in Rivals.

 

You know, I kinda wouldn't mind if they gave some sort of air-boost to Silver, akin to Sonic's air-boost in Unleashed-Gens. Since this is Silver though, and seeing as how he's capable of flying a LOT more than Sonic's air-boost in the Silver rival fight in Gens HD, I think it would cool to turn that into some extended air-boost, like some Gens mods actually gave him. Probably give him levitation as his double jump as well? Although also give him a homing attack please, no battle gimmicks with psychokinesis please.

 

But you know, assuming they ever do bring back playable characters in the first place. Which I doubt at this point for another couple of games (if ever).

 

 

I can't keep up with Sonic canon anymore I like Silver, his voice really fits his body. If only playing him didn't blow so hard.

[Sparky]

Yeah they can't really retcon that at this point, I'm just saying I don't want any more battle-centric gameplay where all you do is pick up boxes and hurl them at generic robots with the most wonky physics ever.

 

*ahem*

Then they could just fix the physics and expand on Silver's psychokinetic gameplay.

[Splash the Otter]

Tails and Knuckles don't change color at all in Sonic 3 and Knuckles. Knux never became pink and Tails is already golden to begin with. In S3:K, all they did was pulse white. Super Sonic changed to gold but also  pulsed white. Super Tails and Knuckles base sprite is exactly the same as their normal sprite.

Funny, it looks like he's shifting between pink and red here. Anyway, I was just pointing out to JaiRo that not all super forms are yellow.

 

Sonic Generations 3DS has Silver RUNNING at the same speed as Sonic (arms behind the back and everything) instead of just levitating. Rouge has spin jumped since SA2 or at least Heroes (also everyone can Homing Attack and roll in Heroes)

I'm not sure why Silver was able to run so fast in that game, but the fact remains that he isn't supposed to be a fast run. And regardless of who can and can't spin jump*, my point is that everyone in Sonic Rivals had the same moves to keep the game balanced.

 

*Incidentally, I said that Rouge couldn't spin dash.

[Sparky]

Funny, it looks like he's shifting between pink and red here. Anyway, I was just pointing out to JaiRo that not all super forms are yellow.

 

I'm not sure why Silver was able to run so fast in that game, but the fact remains that he isn't supposed to be a fast run. And regardless of who can and can't spin jump*, my point is that everyone in Sonic Rivals had the same moves to keep the game balanced.

 

*Incidentally, I said that Rouge couldn't spin dash.

Knuckles isn't shifting between pink and red. He just has a white pulse, which gives the illusion that he's pink. Super Tails and Super Sonic have the same effect. 

[Tani Coyote]

Being from the future and time travelling to ensure a Good Future is also a big part of his character.

It also makes him seem rather incompetent if you ask me. I understand that is also technically part of his character (his naivete and what not), but the fact the future is always screwed leads me to conclude that a) Silver is abysmal at his job or someone high in the sky obviously was pissed off by Silver's peers.

Silver's powers are very interesting, that much is certain. I've seen the neat things they're used for in the Archie canon, and I wouldn't mind if the games similarly were willing to explore his abilities, and not necessarily in the same direction Archie did. I think his ESP abilities would make for a much bigger part of his character than his time traveling habit, and so I don't think it'd hurt him to ditch the Trunks element.

[Sparky]

It also makes him seem rather incompetent if you ask me. I understand that is also technically part of his character (his naivete and what not), but the fact the future is always screwed leads me to conclude that a) Silver is abysmal at his job or someone high in the sky obviously was pissed off by Silver's peers.

Silver's powers are very interesting, that much is certain. I've seen the neat things they're used for in the Archie canon, and I wouldn't mind if the games similarly were willing to explore his abilities, and not necessarily in the same direction Archie did. I think his ESP abilities would make for a much bigger part of his character than his time traveling habit, and so I don't think it'd hurt him to ditch the Trunks element.

The reason the future would still be horrible would be because of another disaster caused by Eggman Nega or something.

[VGamer]

The reason the future would still be horrible would be because of another disaster caused by Eggman Nega or something.

 

Yes, but (correct me if I'm wrong here) what's they're saying is that the future shouldn't be in peril EVERY time Silver visits the present, because then it would get old. The only reason they would put Silver in a game anymore is because he's part of the plot, which would mean he's there on behalf of the future. If that becomes a standard, it would get really old. Some would argue that it already has with Rivals 1&2, and Colors DS.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing it be handled the way Generations did though, where he'd be basically pulled from his time because of ___________ (in this case, the Time Eater). Now that's not to say that every time it has to be some menacing monster, but just some other BS that Sega can come up with I guess, just not to make it stale.

 

Then they could just fix the physics and expand on Silver's psychokinetic gameplay.

 

The physics aren't the issue here, it's that the idea itself of slowing down and fighting enemies in any Sonic game has never worked well to me and many others, so why keep bringing it back? Just make him play like a normal Sonic character, but with whatever abilities they can give him to make it different than just Sonic.

 

Kinda like Sonic 3&K, or a more modern example being SM3DW.