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That actually sounds like a really interesting concept. Nack being portrayed as a old school type gangster running a protection racket, robbing the city blind, kinda like all those old prohibition time movies, sounds like a nice fit with his character. It's pretty close to his crooked bounty hunter persona and a lot of people seem to throw him into the weasely gangster stereotype.

 

You know, that would be pretty interesting. How should his voice be like, though?

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Then they could just fix the physics and expand on Silver's psychokinetic gameplay.

 

 

What if Silver played more like NiGHTS but with lasers and some psychokinesis. 

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You know, that would be pretty interesting. How should his voice be like, though?

For some reason or another, my brain is defaulting to either "Nolan North" or "Shadyvox" as possible answers. x_x;

 

Anybody else have other ideas regarding a fitting voice actor for Nack the Weasel?

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If they bring him back, they should give him a distinct personality or some sort of quirk. Just bringing him back for nostalgia or to be part of the Chaotix again is a waste of time. 

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If you look on wikipedia he does actually have a personality, I like the idea of it. 

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Ugh, just realised that my central post on character creators and the theories as to why only a certain handful were kept around would have vanished with the server wipe. At least I have them on Tumblr if I need to bring them up again.

 

All this Mighty talk has sort of inspired me to look a little deeper into why he hasn't and won't be brought back, because he was honestly kind of one of the most primed ones to come back as well if you looked at it on paper. I mean, Kusonoki may have been on AM3 and not that involved with Sonic mostly, but he has credits in SegaSonic Arcade, Chaotix and Sonic Adventure, so it's not as if he wasn't around to influence after the soft reboot.

 

Let's start from the beginning; I know that I really get sick of hearing that Mighty has existed since before Sonic 1 because the concepts for the protagonist boiled down to a hedgehog and an armadillo because Mighty has not existed that long. The latter part is true (it came down to them because of their ability to roll into a ball), but Ohshima's Sonic was selected because his design was more streamlined and more fitting of the fast gameplay, so we know that the armadillo was both not created by Ohshima and not slender like Sonic. So in all likelihood that other armadillo concept that's banding about was that same final one. 

 

Now, on occasion, instead of saying that Mighty was the pre-Sonic 1 armadillo, some twist the rumour a bit by saying that Mighty was based on the pre-Sonic 1 armadillo. And...I think this idea is actually very plausible. Ohshima is included in the credits of SegaSonic Arcade as special thanks, so while not directly working on the game it does sound like he had interaction with the team, and he was definitely privy to accessing the pre-Sonic 1 concepts. Concept armadillo, for those who can't recall it, shows a very muscular armadillo, who's main trait is being very strong as shown by him flexing his arm. Mighty is very much like this armadillo in traits, as he also is depicted as flexing his arm to show that he's the strongman of the trio (plus he's called Mighty), but in design he's just Sonic with an altered fur colour, a longer nose and a shell. Essentially, Mighty strikes me more as a homage (or even parody) to that initial concept art, instead of a character who was designed from the ground up and tailored to have their own niche in the Sonic Universe. Contrast that to Hoshino who, while taking two characters straight from the '92 Sonic Manga, actually reworked them from the ground up to give them their own distinct identities in the game and away from their serial counterparts (the bits about Amy's clothing being inspired by Ohshima's clothing likes, and her personality being inspired by what Hoshino liked in women back then really stick out). This wouldn't even be the only time Kusonoki did this, as Ray is apparently based on early concepts for Tails (which would make sense, but is harder to verify).

 

Now even that aside, Chaotix also gives me reason to suspect why he was dropped. Okay, so the 'Mighty is literally Sonic's sprite altered' is one thing. Kusonoki is credited as an original character concept person, but like Knuckles, the extent of that sounds like his character was shoved in there (whether Kusonoki himself put Mighty forward and SEGA accepted or if SEGA just pinched it and Kusonoki didn't mind is honestly not that important) and then it was called a day. Certainly there wasn't any thorough work done to him unlike the rest of the Chaotix (but we'll bring that up properly later) because he's essentially had no tweaks since SegaSonic Arcade. There is a second thing though. Part of my ideal for Mighty's personality was a mix of his SegaSonic Arcade and Chaotix personalities, but ultimately the fact that such a difference exists indicates that they wasn't really any sort of solidarity or interest for Mighty as a character. Mighty had a niche as the brute in SegaSonic Arcade, but the series had moved along since 1993 and we now had Knuckles for that role, so the manual just threw him into some other arbitrary niche the other characters didn't have which was pacifism (and it's never reflected in the game so I do think it was just tacked on). Contrast that to another Chaotix character; All we know about the pre-Sonic 1 crocodile is that he played the keyboard and did a shimmy thing across the SEGA screen. Ohshima could have just taken his design and dumped it into Chaotix just fine because it was already primed for the Sonic games. Instead, he took the time to recraft him into a more updated design with a more unique flair. The little mannerism that he showed was expanded and retooled into more animation that gave a better sense of who the character was. And the manual was able to weave that in to make a profile that was conveyed on-screen and at least gave a little cohesion between the two. That level of care that was given is probably why Ohshima refers to the pre-Sonic 1 crocodile as Vector too, even if it wasn't called that back in 1990 [Edit: Since this post, I have discovered that this is bullshit, he was always Vector. Okay then]. The identity of the character was regarded as important. Mighty was just thrown around to wherever he suited, essentially.

 

So, overall, despite his popularity with the fans (back before Heroes, I think Mighty was the first or second most popular of the four considered Chaotix alongside Espio), he's never really been more than a cute reference. Kusonoki didn't seem to care all too much about having him as a memorable and consistent character, and that coupled with him being AM3 and not Sonic Team's big guns is probably what sealed the deal on Mighty's existence.

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All that kinda makes me wonder why Nack ended up on the cutting room floor. I mean he didn't really have the same issues as Mighty or Ray, he had a very unique design, he had personality in his Triple Trouble sprite work and his Fighters model. They even wanted to use him in X-Treme before it got canned.

We know he doesn't have any trademark or copyright issues as Archie can still use him, Touma doesn't seem to mind his use and likely has no control anyway, what with designing him for Sega while he worked there as a character designer in Sega's early days. Sega have often given the excuse that they don't have any idea where he fits anymore, and he would need a modern redesign to be used in the current itteration of the series to answer questions on the subject. I do wonder what Izuka's reluctance to use him again stems from. I would personally love to see a plain old bad anthro character in the games again, it would make a nice change to some of the lame ass monster of the week stuff we usually get. No need to take the spotlight from Eggman tho. He can just be like in the comics, a bounty hunter for hire, Eggman makes a deal with the guy, or he's plain out after the emeralds or something and ends up running into Sonic and the crew and forms a rivalry with them over claiming the emeralds, like a modern version of Triple Trouble. If only that Sonic Unleashed rumor about him was true >.<

All that kinda makes me wonder why Nack ended up on the cutting room floor. I mean he didn't really have the same issues as Mighty or Ray, he had a very unique design, he had personality in his Triple Trouble sprite work and his Fighters model. They even wanted to use him in X-Treme before it got canned.

We know he doesn't have any trademark or copyright issues as Archie can still use him, Touma doesn't seem to mind his use and likely has no control anyway, what with designing him for Sega while he worked there as a character designer in Sega's early days. Sega have often given the excuse that they don't have any idea where he fits anymore, and he would need a modern redesign to be used in the current itteration of the series to answer questions on the subject. I do wonder what Izuka's reluctance to use him again stems from. I would personally love to see a plain old bad anthro character in the games again, it would make a nice change to some of the lame ass monster of the week stuff we usually get. No need to take the spotlight from Eggman tho. He can just be like in the comics, a bounty hunter for hire, Eggman makes a deal with the guy, or he's plain out after the emeralds or something and ends up running into Sonic and the crew and forms a rivalry with them over claiming the emeralds, like a modern version of Triple Trouble. If only that Sonic Unleashed rumor about him was true >.<

All that kinda makes me wonder why Nack ended up on the cutting room floor. I mean he didn't really have the same issues as Mighty or Ray, he had a very unique design, he had personality in his Triple Trouble sprite work and his Fighters model. They even wanted to use him in X-Treme before it got canned.

We know he doesn't have any trademark or copyright issues as Archie can still use him, Touma doesn't seem to mind his use and likely has no control anyway, what with designing him for Sega while he worked there as a character designer in Sega's early days. Sega have often given the excuse that they don't have any idea where he fits anymore, and he would need a modern redesign to be used in the current itteration of the series to answer questions on the subject. I do wonder what Izuka's reluctance to use him again stems from. I would personally love to see a plain old bad anthro character in the games again, it would make a nice change to some of the lame ass monster of the week stuff we usually get. No need to take the spotlight from Eggman tho. He can just be like in the comics, a bounty hunter for hire, Eggman makes a deal with the guy, or he's plain out after the emeralds or something and ends up running into Sonic and the crew and forms a rivalry with them over claiming the emeralds, like a modern version of Triple Trouble. If only that Sonic Unleashed rumor about him was true >.<

All that kinda makes me wonder why Nack ended up on the cutting room floor. I mean he didn't really have the same issues as Mighty or Ray, he had a very unique design, he had personality in his Triple Trouble sprite work and his Fighters model. They even wanted to use him in X-Treme before it got canned.

We know he doesn't have any trademark or copyright issues as Archie can still use him, Touma doesn't seem to mind his use and likely has no control anyway, what with designing him for Sega while he worked there as a character designer in Sega's early days. Sega have often given the excuse that they don't have any idea where he fits anymore, and he would need a modern redesign to be used in the current itteration of the series to answer questions on the subject. I do wonder what Izuka's reluctance to use him again stems from. I would personally love to see a plain old bad anthro character in the games again, it would make a nice change to some of the lame ass monster of the week stuff we usually get. No need to take the spotlight from Eggman tho. He can just be like in the comics, a bounty hunter for hire, Eggman makes a deal with the guy, or he's plain out after the emeralds or something and ends up running into Sonic and the crew and forms a rivalry with them over claiming the emeralds, like a modern version of Triple Trouble. If only that Sonic Unleashed rumor about him was true >.<

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Fang is an interesting character with a unique design and an cool position as a villain. I guess it's just because SEGA hadn't used him for a few years, and probably by Adventure, they had forgotten about him completely. 

 

It's kind of a shame because of all the characters that could be brought back, Fang is probably the most interesting. 

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Edited : Sorry about that my phone decided to post multiple times.

I am still kinda gutted that the handheld version of Generations didn't revolve around the handheld or 8-bit titles like was originally reported on differing sites. Seeing some of those stages with bosses (including Nack) would have really given the 3DS version an edge it really lacked >.<

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Fang could be one of those recurring villains that appears every couple games either as the main villain or working for Eggman. It could spice things up. 

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I think what shot Fang down was the fact he wasn't made by Sonic Team or STI people back in the day. Fang's debut game was in the Aspect Co-made Game Gear series of Sonic games, and Sonic Team have just decided not to use characters outside a certain parameter for whatever reason (because being made by non-STI and Sonic Team personnel is literally the only consistent factor between all the scrapped characters) despite some of them being used freely between different development teams. I don't even think an appearance in Sonic X-Treme would have saved him from the chopping block, what with the bad vibes that came about from Naka having his NiGHTS engine stolen for use on it.

 

And the reason there wasn't a focus on the 8-bit titles in Generations is that they're disregarded out of canon, simply put.

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I think what shot Fang down was the fact he wasn't made by Sonic Team or STI people back in the day. Fang's debut game was in the Aspect Co-made Game Gear series of Sonic games, and Sonic Team have just decided not to use characters outside a certain parameter for whatever reason (because being made by non-STI and Sonic Team personnel is literally the only consistent factor between all the scrapped characters) despite some of them being used freely between different development teams. I don't even think an appearance in Sonic X-Treme would have saved him from the chopping block, what with the bad vibes that came about from Naka having his NiGHTS engine stolen for use on it.

 

And the reason there wasn't a focus on the 8-bit titles in Generations is that they're disregarded out of canon, simply put.

 

Oh, well I though that Sonic Team created Him, so that's news to me. Yeah, Fang probably isn't even canon anymore, in that case. 

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Nah, he was created by a character artist for hire, working for Aspect doing the 8-bit games. They do seem to hold his character rights tho from what has been gleamed from this period of Sega history. His creator Touma stayed with Sega right up until 2002 when he broke away and started working as a figure artist for a Japanese company designing premium collectable figures. Some of which do have a striking resemblance to the blue nosed sniper weasel wolf >.<

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Never said they didn't own him. My theory is just that they had a bit more fondness for the characters made under their wing (or at least under their personnel's wing. Chaotix wasn't a Sonic Team or STI game, but the three characters still around were made by Ohshima and Hoshino). 

 

Also as I've said before, Iizuka has stated that they'd need to be re-introduced as new character if they were brought back* (which is consistent with when he said the Chaotix were re-introduced and not the KC versions brought back). So yeah, they actually do stand as non-canon characters as of now.

 

 

*That said, other SEGA staff have made it clear Sonic Team won't do that.

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It is understandable in some ways, but it seems strange they would feel the need to outright say that the new Chaotix aren't the older versions at all. Tho this is the same company that has no issue saying Sonic and crew have aged in Generations but then turn around and say they can't be seen as having aged in other media.

I do agree with your hypothesis tho, it seems likely that it has to do with which team or people created them more than their ownership or uniqueness of design etc, I mean they made the Rogues even tho they could have used the Battlebird Armada again. Arcangel UK even suggesting that Fang couldn't be used because Rogue took his place as the "theif" which I find highly unlikely as a reason for his departure. Just seems a shame that they create new characters to fill a certain void when they could be using ones they have previously used and retooling them. Even if Fang had to have a character overhaul I think it would be nice to see him again, much like seeing the three Chaotix members again was a pleasant surprise.

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...Have they said Sonic and co aged in Generations? I don't think they ever have actually.

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Well not aged as such, but they said the stages and events were from the "past", and Sonic and Tails from the "past" look quite different from their modern versions. Anyone and everyone looking at it would assume that time has passed thus they have aged. I don't think anyone in their right mind would think Classic Sonic was Modern Sonic less than a year ago, or that the events of every single cannon game happened in less than a year >.<

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 Arcangel UK even suggesting that Fang couldn't be used because Rogue took his place as the "theif" which I find highly unlikely as a reason for his departure.

I find this hilarious and stupid on Sonic Team's end, and it really says something about their writing if that's their excuse.

 

Because for one, Fang was never even a thief, he was a bounty hunter. Completely different profession, and Rouge also doubles as a government agent along with Shadow.

 

And secondly, even if there wasn't any difference, they claim that Rouge took his place as the thief, but they can have several different power characters that can crush boulders with their hands (Knuckles, Omega, Storm, Vector), several different scientists that can create machines (Eggman, Eggman Nega, Tails, Prof. Gerald), several different characters that can fly (Tails, Rouge, Cream, Charmy) and run at supersonic speeds (Sonic, Shadow, Metal Sonic, Espio, Amy, Blaze), and several Monsters of the Week that seek to destroy the world (Chaos, Iblis, Biolizard, Dark Gaia)? Seriously, WTF?

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To be fair, I am kind of suspicious that that answer was only provided by him and not really an insight into Sonic Team's thought process, especially as this was before he essentially became aware that they would never bring him back regardless circa the time of Generations.

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It was from a post roughly around the time Sonic Black Knight was released. So yeah, long before Generations. It all stemmed from a discussion about Fang appearing in a piece of fan artwork used for the game, and also made mention of the official storybook series comic tie-in that also mentioned Fang. Leading to the question of if he was going to be making a comeback. That was when he jumped in with the quote about Fang having no place in the series anymore and Rogue having possibly taken his place.

Can't remember if it was on the Sonic Stadium board itself or if it was over on Sonic-City, but it was quite a while ago.

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I checked. It was pre-server wipe on here (the catastrophic one, not the recent annoyance) so the full conversation is lost, but TSSZ new'd the thread and quoted the part with AAUK talking about Fang so it's preserved through that.

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To be fair, I am kind of suspicious that that answer was only provided by him and not really an insight into Sonic Team's thought process, especially as this was before he essentially became aware that they would never bring him back regardless circa the time of Generations.

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hmm... suddenly.. reading the Tails Topic..

i got realize that Sonic on his latests 2 games; Lost World and Rise of Lyric (though both are not related each other) Sonic's impulsive attitude has caused problems and its responsable for the main plots

 

in SLW

Sonic kicks the Cacaphonic Conch and that causes trouble..

he even gets realize that its all because of his fault.. he did not listen to Tails (he did twice in the same game actually)

causing the death of his friends and his world for a while and the capture of his best friend;Tails...

 

and in RoL

Sonic wakes up Lyric...by accident.. though he was warned to not open the door to Lyric's prision...

(well maybe i'm blaming Sonic for trying to save his friends.. but anyway... the official story tells it in that way :P )

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