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Character Speculation/Revival/What-if/etc Thread

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I like the idea of a rotating cast as it ensures characters are playable, and if they aren't now, you'd at least know they will be in a future game.  Sonic could be the glue that can make story arcs possible with different cast members, though the story with each game in the arc would need to fit the new characters in while justifying the inability to play previous characters.  Rotating cast games not featuring Sonic could work the same way if the role of Sonic in the Arc was replaced with another character like Shadow, Amy, Blaze, etc, basically following this specific character's adventure.  Though the rotating cast formula I think works best story-wise if each game was self contained.

Edited by Taokaka

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I'm now wondering if there are any Sonic game characters who really are useless, garbage characters. The Deadly Six at least come close. And about the Wisps, does EVERY wisp match another character? Who could use something like Asteroid, Rhythm, or Quake on their own? This could be used as a two-ended case. Either to keep some Wisps around or to immigrate select non-game characters, at least for sport and party games. New characters need to cease production for at least 5 years. We could fill the gap with the use of obscure characters who would be new to most audiences.

 

And the shuffling about of character rosters seems to be nice, as do character spinoffs. No one has a good reputation now. Luckily, even the hatred is starting to fade, except for a few like Big. The characters have become blank to most, except for a few nostalgic people who like them. Unfortunately, these spinoffs don't always pan out well, as seen with poor Yoshi, who got worse in most of his own games.

 

And about Sonic World, I like the idea, but the approach doesn't pan out well. Why does every last character have a Spin Jump and a Spin Dash? This is like if every character in Street Fighter was a shotoclone. Often, the added abilities are not different enough either.

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I miss having proper spin-off games to explore/use side-characters, the best we've gotten recently is Runners, which I do really like, but it'd be cool to get full fledged side games again, like Riders or Rush.

I love the world and art-style of Sonic Riders, if it were ever to return, I wouldn't mind seeing Sticks be incorporated (like she is in Mario/Sonic 2016) with a futuristic design like all the other characters.

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21 hours ago, YamiFromDenmark said:

I miss having proper spin-off games to explore/use side-characters, the best we've gotten recently is Runners, which I do really like, but it'd be cool to get full fledged side games again, like Riders or Rush.

I love the world and art-style of Sonic Riders, if it were ever to return, I wouldn't mind seeing Sticks be incorporated (like she is in Mario/Sonic 2016) with a futuristic design like all the other characters.

I'd take a new ASR that's all-Sonic this time, so we can have as many dead, pre-Adventure, and non-game characters as we'd like.

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What is irking me right now is that I've found some people on the internet who believe Sonic's friends are inherently awful. Not just their voice or their gameplay or some bad writing, just their entire fucking being. For example, this down here.

Quote

Sonic's friends are unnecessary.


He doesn't need so many characters because his games don't need a complex story. It should not be a story driven series. Definitely not with THIS cast that makes it look like a badly designed cartoon for little kids. They even tried to make it look serious with drama and romance (LOL!) and all they did was to accidentally make a story about bestiality.

And he doesn't need so many different playable characters either. The Sonic character was awesome and cool because he could run fast. That was his "thing" his power. So speed became one of the few things the series is all about (along with physics and good level design). I suppose Tails could run as fast because he could fly with his helicopter tails and that's fine, it looked cool. He was a deformed creature (two tails) but he could use his unique deformity in a cool way to do a thing only Sonic could do. Besides, he didn't really run as fast, he basically flies. Sonic has still the faster legs.

But Knuckles running as fast was too much. Still, i don't want him killed off because at least the first games he was into were great. But suddenly, every single generic character in the universe, after Knuckles, could run like Sonic. So, if every character can run so fast then what's so cool and unique about Sonic? What's so cool and unique about Tail's deformity? Even Sonic's name sounds inappropriate now, why give him a name that suggest high speeds when everyone can run that fast in the first place? Its like naming a heroic fish character, in a game that takes place in an ocean, "swimmer" because he can move in the water. Like Syndrome said in the incredibles, "when everyone is super, no one is".

The other alternative is to make all the other characters slow and give them different powers and things to do but then it wouldn't be a Sonic game anymore, would it? Remember, speed is important in a Sonic game. If i wanted to play a different, slower platform game i would play, guess what, a different platform game. When i play Sonic, i want to play, guess what again, Sonic. A platform game with a character that runs stupidly fast.

So i guess the only thing that is left is to make all his friends NPCs or make them Robotnik's victims but again, there are too many generic and awfully designed characters that makes the series look like a toddler's cartoon show and the best way to fix them is to perform a more permanent fix to them, if you know what i mean. There is simply no reason for them to exist, at least in a Sonic game. If they want so much to make games about a gazillion generic characters then they should make a game about them and not ruin Sonic.


So yeah, his friends need to go (and die) and the designers need to focus on other things if Sonic wants to become a unique character in a great series again, like in the 16bit days. But i guess it's too late for that now.

What's up with them? I tried to propose ideas to fix them by going off their suggestions, but they still wouldn't have any of it. How would we satiate them? We could easily just make them all totally optional, and not required for game completion. But they seem to act like they aren't wanted even in the story. Why do people think Sonic's friends are awful to the very core? How do we fix that?

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Damn that quote makes me cringe.  Anyway, I don't think there is much that can be done with people that far down the Sonic only way of thinking with helping them see Sonic's friends in a better light.  It's hard to change someone's mind when there is a strong conviction behind those feelings.  However, the best thing Sonic Team and third party developers can do for fans in general with regards to the other characters is to make them fun and especially when playable, functional.  When the hate Sonic's friends bandwagon started rolling around in '06, most problems people had with all these characters was that they didn't play well.  Knuckles glide was nerfed badly and both him and Rouge had a chance to get stuck on walls.  People were annoyed that Silver was so slow and the hub worlds made it much more worse in context.  Especially the jungle one.  Shadow's vehicle sections were a buggy mess with terrible controls.  Things like that.  No one was complaining about playing as Knuckles or Tails in S3&K.  People weren't complaining about characters in the Advance trilogy and the general vibe is that Blaze is a great inclusion.  The only time people have ever made a fuss over Sonic's friends was when they were poorly implemented or did jack all in the games plot.  Simply put, just do a good job incorporating the characters into the game should they be in the game.

Sonic's solo games haven't been without issues either so his friends being the bane of his success flies out the window.

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I've been thinking a bit about how some of the lesser known characters would play out if by a Christmas Miracletm  SEGA and or Sonic Team decided hey rather than make a new chump lets put this one in the new game instead?

Fang is pretty easy. I'd have the bounty hunter/thief play like Ratchet and Clank. Give the guy different Wild West themed weapons, even a novelty one that shoots spaghetti to distract or blind folks so you can mow them down with something else. He's a bit slow but he can get speed sections with the Marvelous Queen. 

Bean is a bit more erratic. I'd imagine he'd run a fair bit faster and use bombs as his main attacks. He'd also be able to glide like Bubsy can (make more sense since he's a duck and fits his 'wacky' personality...) and would be able to do a feathery tornado similar to Espio and Blaze.    

Bark is a bit tougher since he's pretty slow. So he'd be like a tank. Since fans like to stick them together I would have Bark mainly as back up for Bean in he runs into trouble or has to fight a strong boss.

Mighty again would be pretty easy to implement. He'd be again quite slow but his strength would be parkour and possibly more vertical/obstacle levels since his special ability in Chaotix was wall kicking. The more you complete with less damage the higher the combo. Also maybe a pacifist option where you can possibly reason with certain enemies and get them on your side perhaps?

As for Ray he was kind of tricky since he's my favourite character and all. I had no idea of what to do to make him kind of cool game play wise so I googled his name one day out of curiosity since pretty much everyone except Amy has a literal name. The first thing that popped up was the meaning. "A line of light from the sun" That's it I thought! He can be solar powered! He can gain the ability to fly via solar power! So Ray's levels would be flying levels where you learn to use your solar ability properly. In later levels you have to do your best to conserve energy because if you use too much Ray's fur begins to become duller and duller before the little fella collapses and free falls to certain death.    

So there is my two cents. It's not much but I'm sure some could easily flesh it out way better.

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14 hours ago, Mightyray said:

I've been thinking a bit about how some of the lesser known characters would play out if by a Christmas Miracletm  SEGA and or Sonic Team decided hey rather than make a new chump lets put this one in the new game instead?

Fang is pretty easy. I'd have the bounty hunter/thief play like Ratchet and Clank. Give the guy different Wild West themed weapons, even a novelty one that shoots spaghetti to distract or blind folks so you can mow them down with something else. He's a bit slow but he can get speed sections with the Marvelous Queen. 

Bean is a bit more erratic. I'd imagine he'd run a fair bit faster and use bombs as his main attacks. He'd also be able to glide like Bubsy can (make more sense since he's a duck and fits his 'wacky' personality...) and would be able to do a feathery tornado similar to Espio and Blaze.    

Bark is a bit tougher since he's pretty slow. So he'd be like a tank. Since fans like to stick them together I would have Bark mainly as back up for Bean in he runs into trouble or has to fight a strong boss.

Mighty again would be pretty easy to implement. He'd be again quite slow but his strength would be parkour and possibly more vertical/obstacle levels since his special ability in Chaotix was wall kicking. The more you complete with less damage the higher the combo. Also maybe a pacifist option where you can possibly reason with certain enemies and get them on your side perhaps?

Ray. He was kind of tricky since he's my favourite character and all. I had no idea of what to do to make him kind of cool game play wise so I googled his name one day out of curiosity since pretty much everyone except Amy has a literal name. The first thing that popped up was the meaning. "A line of light from the sun" That's it I thought! He can be solar powered! He can gain the ability to fly via solar power! So Ray's levels would be flying levels where you learn to use your solar ability properly. In later levels you have to do your best to conserve energy because if you use too much Ray's fur begins to become duller and duller before the little fella collapses and freefalls to certain death.    

So there is my two cents. It's not much but I'm sure some could easily flesh it out way better.

Tikal would likely use something similar to her SA2 gameplay, but she'd also have a super-peel-out.  Her attack could be charged so she could create a defensive wall of light to block enemies.

Shade would use her Leech Blades to take life and attributes from foes as she damages them. Her climb works very different than other echidnas; it's a quick one-way trip up the wall she faces, and she cannot glide so this can be done from the ground. Of course, she can also turn invisible.

 

I do like Bean's Bubsy glide.

EDIT: Once, I came up with ideas for the weirdest playable characters imaginable, like Sonic Unleashed NPCs.

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On 2/5/2016 at 4:34 PM, The Very First Miru to Me said:

What is irking me right now is that I've found some people on the internet who believe Sonic's friends are inherently awful. Not just their voice or their gameplay or some bad writing, just their entire fucking being. For example, this down here.

What's up with them? I tried to propose ideas to fix them by going off their suggestions, but they still wouldn't have any of it. How would we satiate them? We could easily just make them all totally optional, and not required for game completion. But they seem to act like they aren't wanted even in the story. Why do people think Sonic's friends are awful to the very core? How do we fix that?

We can't fix it if the reasoning behind why they want them gone is something that pathetic and sad.

"Oh. We can't make all the other characters cool because then more then just one character within the Sonic series would be considered cool and that would ruin everything." Oh no. Sonic's not SPECIAL enough guys. Sure, if they implemented them right, his series would be a huge success and the fans of those characters would be happy and he'd still be a beloved character because he's fucking Sonic the Hedgehog and people are going to love him anyway... but he's not COOLER then the others now. They have to SHARE likability and that hurts Sonic's character and his gameplay's uniqueness. Not the uniqueness to the series, mind you. It'd still be unique to the series. But not his character guys! His poor character!

God what a baby.

That's seriously the mentality they're going for here? Is that the same reasoning the people in charge of Dragonball Z use when it comes to Goku? We can't let the other characters win battles and do shit because then it'd take away from how awesome and special Goku is. 

If that's literally all they've got as an argument for not making the other characters fun then what the fuck are we even doing entertaining this drought for so long? Bring them back already so we can progress finally. 

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I don't think there's anything unreasonable about wanting the actual protagonist to stand out a bit from the rest of the cast, though. There's been plenty of discussion on the problem of the other characters being "Sonic plus" (Tails is Sonic plus flight, Knuckles is Sonic plus gliding, climbing, and super strength, etc) and how this leaves the series' main character lacking a unique niche or standout ability.

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I don't mind being a big fat baby for wanting a little more uniqueness to the other characters' gameplay. I like the idea of having the others stand out, like for example Amy's gameplay in Sonic Advance. I mean, she can still run loop-de-loops at fast speeds but she has mechanics that make her unique amongst the cast. That's what I want from the other characters, Still have the ability to run fast and run form point A to point B but still have some unique abilities that make them stand out, however make them work with speed and platforming. I also do agree that Sonic needs more stand out abilities for his own. 

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4 hours ago, Diogenes said:

I don't think there's anything unreasonable about wanting the actual protagonist to stand out a bit from the rest of the cast, though. There's been plenty of discussion on the problem of the other characters being "Sonic plus" (Tails is Sonic plus flight, Knuckles is Sonic plus gliding, climbing, and super strength, etc) and how this leaves the series' main character lacking a unique niche or standout ability.

You think wanting the protagonist to stand out from the cast is the thing I'm pointing as unreasonable? Really now...

I've been apart of that discussion myself and while it's something that could be an issue, in theory, it's a very, very, very minor and almost nonexistent one compared to the much bigger, already existing, and more damaging one of them not being used at all at the moment. In part because this is a problem that's actually happening right now. For over a decade now. I feel like it makes a lot more sense to worry about how unique the characters are towards each other when they actually start allowing them to be playable again rather then this little minor nugget of mental discomfort towards how someone's gonna feel Sonic might stand out if other people start finally liking the other characters in his cast. Should they probably get it wrong enough to where they're all still fun and everyone's happy but Sonic's maybe not as... special anymore (some...how) for the desired minimum of at least one single game.. then I personally feel that's a bit of a silly thing to have on your plate. Especially when it's something that isn't even happening. I'll endorse holding off on doing something only if the alternative for doing it is something that's a huge damaging problem or something that can't be easily fixed. Sonic not feeling special enough (despite still being fun to play along with the others) isn't a damaging problem and it's also something that can be easily fixed if it's standing is not good enough. So holding ourselves back because of hypothetical boogeyman like that is only coming off as extraneously silly to me. It's still Sonic's series. He's gonna steal the credit for it anyway. 

At this point we've got no reason to be worrying about that. There's always a hypothetical downside to everything and it seems like the one we've been dealt here has the collaterial damage of a butterfly wafting by and knocking over my salt shaker. All I'd have to do is pick that up and fix it. Very easily.  Weighing out your options and worrying about taking steps to making sure everything fits okay comes first. Sweating the comparitively small stuff like how unique Sonic's character is compared to them (which isn't even on the table as something to worry about nowadays. At all.) can wait. Seriously, it's not even like I'm asking for them to be in every single game moving forward forever. And still this only stands as something to worry about only if you go on assuming that when they're playable again they don't do it in a way that fixes that problem. Seriously, even if they did end up being too similar, I don't see how even letting them be like that for one game at the very least damages Sonic's uniquesness going forward in the series. Unless people lose their minds and start forgetting that it's the Sonic the Hedgehog series then I think we're all good. 

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5 hours ago, Mikyeong said:

I don't mind being a big fat baby for wanting a little more uniqueness to the other characters' gameplay. I like the idea of having the others stand out, like for example Amy's gameplay in Sonic Advance. I mean, she can still run loop-de-loops at fast speeds but she has mechanics that make her unique amongst the cast. That's what I want from the other characters, Still have the ability to run fast and run form point A to point B but still have some unique abilities that make them stand out, however make them work with speed and platforming. I also do agree that Sonic needs more stand out abilities for his own. 

No. That's not at all why I called the guy who cried and whined about Sonic not being special enough a baby. I want that too. That's a great idea. Having the characters be unique in their gameplay is a positive improvement to make upon them being playable again. Should it actually be a problem that needs worrying about once they're playable again, then let's look into that. Making an improvement upon an improvement is always welcome. But worrying about something like that now is the equivalent to worrying about what ring you're going to get for your wedding when you don't even have a girlfriend yet. On top of that, it's not even that big of a deal. Assuming that when it finally happens, they don't manage to succeed in making them unique enough, just fix it. Done. And even if they don't fix it (assuming they do it again after that ONE hypothetical game where it finally comes back) if they're still fun to play as it still counts as a plus. Whining that it's a bad idea to let them back in because of such a low tier, first world problem is what's babyish. It's such a weird, nitpicky thing to toss your pacifier at in this ten year long abscenece of anything of substance coming from the others.

"Yeah, the others are fun now and Sonic is still revered and loved the world over but a few select people are going to have a problem that he doesn't feel as special now should they hypothetically do it in a way that doesn't make them unique enough. So instead of fixing the problem IF it comes we're just gonna keep them out of the series. Forever."... That sounds freaking crazy. That's what's holding us back from this progress. That. 

That small mental proverb of hypothetical discomfort concerning the character (not the series) where he possibly, maybe, is not feeling as special as the others for a game or two. That's it.

That's it! 

We need to speed this up because these boogeymen are getting pretty stupid now. Being stuck in a limbo because of a problem that small doesn't sit right with me. 

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18 hours ago, Dr. Chaotix said:

No. That's not at all why I called the guy who cried and whined about Sonic not being special enough a baby. I want that too. That's a great idea. Having the characters be unique in their gameplay is a positive improvement to make upon them being playable again. Should it actually be a problem that needs worrying about once they're playable again, then let's look into that. Making an improvement upon an improvement is always welcome. But worrying about something like that now is the equivalent to worrying about what ring you're going to get for your wedding when you don't even have a girlfriend yet. On top of that, it's not even that big of a deal. Assuming that when it finally happens, they don't manage to succeed in making them unique enough, just fix it. Done. And even if they don't fix it (assuming they do it again after that ONE hypothetical game where it finally comes back) if they're still fun to play as it still counts as a plus. Whining that it's a bad idea to let them back in because of such a low tier, first world problem is what's babyish. It's such a weird, nitpicky thing to toss your pacifier at in this ten year long abscenece of anything of substance coming from the others.

"Yeah, the others are fun now and Sonic is still revered and loved the world over but a few select people are going to have a problem that he doesn't feel as special now should they hypothetically do it in a way that doesn't make them unique enough. So instead of fixing the problem IF it comes we're just gonna keep them out of the series. Forever."... That sounds freaking crazy. That's what's holding us back from this progress. That. 

That small mental proverb of hypothetical discomfort concerning the character (not the series) where he possibly, maybe, is not feeling as special as the others for a game or two. That's it.

That's it! 

We need to speed this up because these boogeymen are getting pretty stupid now. Being stuck in a limbo because of a problem that small doesn't sit right with me. 

The complaint wasn't just "Sonic isn't special anymore." It also had "The character designs look like they came out of a generic cartoon show for little kids." and "The huge stories are just wrong."  And things that refer to 06 like "NECROPHILIA LOL!"

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4 hours ago, The Very First Miru to Me said:

The complaint wasn't just "Sonic isn't special anymore." It also had "The character designs look like they came out of a generic cartoon show for little kids." and "The huge stories are just wrong."  And things that refer to 06 like "NECROPHILIA LOL!"

Yup. And all of that is stupid too. 

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On 2/14/2016 at 8:53 PM, Dr. Chaotix said:

Yup. And all of that is stupid too. 

yep

If he's special to you, that's all it really needs to be. If its a power level argument, well... I would for one argue that outside " we have to make the character win because of the video game" I don't thinks sonic could beat... a lot of folks in actual fights. I don't think that takes away from sonic either, 

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Considering how critics still despise Sonic's friends (but are starting to forget them), should there be new/redesigned characters designed specifically for modern critic tastes? Like characters based on modern shooters, The Last of Us, etc. Would this pan out well?

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Agreed with Diogenes. Making new characters isn't going to help the critics warm up to Sonic characters at all. If anything, it would only make the existing hatred they have for the characters even worse. I also much rather SEGA/Sonic Team focus on working with the existing characters *coughAmycoughCreamcoughTeamChaotixcough* before making any new ones.

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It would be nice if Archie could bring back Shard. The idea of there being Secret Freedom Fighters held a lot of promise. Characters like Metal Sonic, who were once hated by the heroes, got their chance at genuine redemption by protecting the now broken group - due to so many losses; Sally, Antoine, Bunny - in the shadows. 

Shard tied directly to the 96 OVA's dramatic death of Metal Sonic, considered to be an accurate representation of the original Sonic universe and expanded on that through the remodeled Metal Sonic character, now reformed: the heroic Shard, who bore many resemblances with Sonic, with his witty humor, charisma, overwhelming confidence and willingness to fight and protect the innocent. 

Shard not only differed from the other Metal Sonics because of his appearance. His personality was in constant evolution. His mission was to understand the behavior of "organics" and prove to them - and ultimately to himself - that coexistence was possible. He embodied the possibility of transcendence for a canon villain that was believable. A possible evolution of the character that was so well done the idea of Shard could stand on its own. And that's something rare in the comics! For the most part, at least.

In a time when Sonic was at his lowest, having lost the love of his life and seeing the Freedom Fighters fall apart, Shard was a remembrance of how the original Sonic was like. He reflected the best qualities of the blue hero in a time when Sonic kept doubting himself. Hell, he even started considering the possibility he was much like Scourge! So Shard's presence - a former villain who turned good through Sonic's example - was a breath of hope in what seemed a desperate situation that could be doomed to worsen until it reached a point of no return for our heroes.

So, yeah, that's pretty much it. I know the writers won't read this, but Shard's sudden death is just a waste. For once, the comics got it right, and surpassed expectations. I hope they find a way to include Shard in future editions.

 

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On ‎4‎/‎21‎/‎2016 at 10:38 PM, Stardust said:

It would be nice if Archie could bring back Shard. The idea of there being Secret Freedom Fighters held a lot of promise. Characters like Metal Sonic, who were once hated by the heroes, got their chance at genuine redemption by protecting the now broken group - due to so many losses; Sally, Antoine, Bunny - in the shadows. 

Shard tied directly to the 96 OVA's dramatic death of Metal Sonic, considered to be an accurate representation of the original Sonic universe and expanded on that through the remodeled Metal Sonic character, now reformed: the heroic Shard, who bore many resemblances with Sonic, with his witty humor, charisma, overwhelming confidence and willingness to fight and protect the innocent. 

Shard not only differed from the other Metal Sonics because of his appearance. His personality was in constant evolution. His mission was to understand the behavior of "organics" and prove to them - and ultimately to himself - that coexistence was possible. He embodied the possibility of transcendence for a canon villain that was believable. A possible evolution of the character that was so well done the idea of Shard could stand on its own. And that's something rare in the comics! For the most part, at least.

In a time when Sonic was at his lowest, having lost the love of his life and seeing the Freedom Fighters fall apart, Shard was a remembrance of how the original Sonic was like. He reflected the best qualities of the blue hero in a time when Sonic kept doubting himself. Hell, he even started considering the possibility he was much like Scourge! So Shard's presence - a former villain who turned good through Sonic's example - was a breath of hope in what seemed a desperate situation that could be doomed to worsen until it reached a point of no return for our heroes.

So, yeah, that's pretty much it. I know the writers won't read this, but Shard's sudden death is just a waste. For once, the comics got it right, and surpassed expectations. I hope they find a way to include Shard in future editions.

 

I'd rather they bring back Gemerl, TBH. He hasn't done anything special since Sonic Advance 3.

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Lets say the next game is in Adventure's fashion

Lets make these guys playable with there own gameplay style

Sonic - Boost gameplay
Tails/Charmy -  Puzzle based levels. (think Silver and the balls from 06. just not as annoying)
Knuckles/Blaze - Emerald Hunting
Rouge/Espio - Parkour style (lost world) / Stealth missions 
Shadow - Adventure 2 Style with lots of Grinding (levels like Rail Canyon - Sonic Heroes)
Silver - Platforming using Telekenisis (just like 06)
Omega/Vector - Battle Waves of Enimes

i honestly would not care if Cream and Amy dont make a return =)

 

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