Blaze the Cat: Fleshed out character or glorified Mary Sue?

[Spin Attaxx]

I don't think she's a Mary Sue at all - though had the "06 Blaze goes to the world in Rush" theory been proven to be true, then yeah, she would be - it's easier to accept someone being in a stupidly important position from birth than someone coming out of nowhere being granted that position for no reason. Thank god Iizuka (mostly) cured her identity crisis.

Also, this question is something someone like miru'd ask, but is it possible that Blaze has Aspergers?

[Diogenes]

Also, this question is something someone like miru'd ask, but is it possible that Blaze has Aspergers?

...based on what?

[Sega DogTagz]

- it's easier to accept someone being in a stupidly important position from birth than someone coming out of nowhere being granted that position for no reason.

She's a flaming Demi-Goddess in a world full of Koala's and other patsies.

Just throwing this out there, but there isn't exactly anybody on that planet more qualified than Blaze to do her job. How is that supposed to be hard to accept?

[Diogenes]

Just throwing this out there, but there isn't exactly anybody on that planet more qualified than Blaze to do her job.

Out of the 12ish people from her world that we've seen, yes, she is the strongest and most competent.

But I am pretty sure there's more than 12ish people in her world. We just haven't seen them.

[Spin Attaxx]

Not to mention that Iizuka out and out said she's always been from the Sol Dimension, with no involvement of her actions at the end of 06.

Also Dio:

...based on what?

Based on her general awkwardness and shyness around others. Maybe it's because she's somewhat like me that I wonder that.

[Sega DogTagz]

But I am pretty sure there's more than 12ish people in her world. We just haven't seen them.

We know that the few people we've seen on her planet are more reliant on her skill sets than most of Earth is to Sonic's.

And we also know that of those 12-ish people, there isn't a single person on her planet that could even remotely stand up to Eggman Nega. And that's saying something because the normies of Sonic's world (Cream) can do that no problem.

She could rule that world with an Iron fist if she had half a mind to do so.

[Diogenes]

Based on her general awkwardness and shyness around others. Maybe it's because she's somewhat like me that I wonder that.

You don't need to be autistic to be shy.

We know that the few people we've seen on her planet are more reliant on her skill sets than most of Earth is to Sonic's.

Really? Because most of the NPCs we've seen in Sonic's world can't do any more shit than the NPCs of Blaze's world. You think Prof Pickle is any less reliant on Sonic than *insert some SRA NPC, I can't remember their names* is on Blaze?

And we also know that of those 12-ish people, there isn't a single person on her planet that could even remotely stand up to Eggman Nega. And that's saying something because the normies of Sonic's world (Cream) can do that no problem.

Why would you compare Cream, a playable character, to NPCs?

And this is still only a 12ish person sample from an entire planet. This is exactly as stupid as saying that, because we didn't see any other humans in the Genesis games, they must not have existed.

[Sega DogTagz]

Really? Because most of the NPCs we've seen in Sonic's world can't do any more shit than the NPCs of Blaze's world. You think Prof Pickle is any less reliant on Sonic than *insert some SRA NPC, I can't remember their names* is on Blaze?

The point is the Normies of Sonic's world have options.

They could sit around and wait for Sonic to save them. They could sit around and wait for GUN to save them. They could even sit around and wait for any given number of Sonic's Fuzzy pals from Tails to Shadow to save them. They are so desensitized they hardly even panic anymore.

The people of the Sol Emerald dimension seem to have one option. OH NOES! DO SOMETHING BLAZE! That says a lot about their living environment doesn't it?

Why would you compare Cream, a playable character, to NPCs?

I never did utter the term NPC.

I used Cream as an example of a Normie, as in "base" mobian. The base mobians of Blaze's world seem to be significantly less capable than those of Sonic's. That's all I'm saying.

And this is still only a 12ish person sample from an entire planet. This is exactly as stupid as saying that, because we didn't see any other humans in the Genesis games, they must not have existed.

Its just as foolish to project that there are other capable characters simply twiddling their thumbs in the SOL dimension.

From what we've seen so far, there simply isn't. As of right now, Blaze is far and away the most powerful thing on her planet. Until proven otherwise, that is a fair enough assumption.

Edited December 13, 2012 by Sega DogTagz

[Spin Attaxx]

As of right now, Blaze is far and away the most powerful thing on her planet. Until proven otherwise, that is a fair enough assumption.

What about the Sol Emeralds and the Jeweled Sceptre? There's a reason she guards the things in the first place (here's a hint: it's not because they're worth a lot of cash).

Edited December 13, 2012 by Santa Attaxx

[Sega DogTagz]

What about the Sol Emeralds and the Jeweled Sceptre? There's a reason she guards the things in the first place.

I meant to say, she's far and away the strongest person on the planet, thus justifying her to be the guardian of the gems whether being born into the role or dropped from the sky.

[Diogenes]

The point is the Normies of Sonic's world have options.

That might have something to do with there being dozens and dozens of Sonic games in Sonic's world and literally only one in Blaze's world. Shouldn't surprise anyone that we know of more things in the world we've seen the most of.

The people of the Sol Emerald dimension seem to have one option. OH NOES! DO SOMETHING BLAZE! That says a lot about their living environment doesn't it?

What it says is that they're going to invoke the option that the player knows of and that relates to the story, not invent a half dozen potential saviors in one game that have nothing to do with anything going on just so people don't make stupid, shortsighted theories.

I never did utter the term NPC.

And why not? Because that's what they are, y'know.

I used Cream as an example of a Normie, as in "base" mobian. The base mobians of Blaze's world seem to be significantly less capable than those of Sonic's. That's all I'm saying.

Why did Vanilla need to be saved? If an ordinary 6 year old can take on Eggman, then obviously an adult should be able to spank his ass with no effort, right?

And if you want to compare Cream to someone, compare her to Marine. Who hasn't fought Nega one-on-one, but has shown potential to be at least as capable as Cream.

Its just as foolish to project that there are other capable characters simply twiddling their thumbs in the SOL dimension.

Which is why I am, first and foremost, not making sweeping assumptions about Blaze's world. Instead of making wild assumptions about shit we barely know anything about, simply admit that we don't know.

From what we've seen so far, there simply isn't. As of right now, Blaze is far and away the most powerful thing on her planet. Until proven otherwise, that is a fair enough assumption.

No, you're reaching far beyond what the data allows, and looking very stupid because of it.

[Spin Attaxx]

I think that Mr. DogTagz is deliberately ignoring (or otherwise doesn't know) the fact that Iizuka said at Sonic Boom 2012 that her Sonic 06 backstory isn't her canon one and that she was native to the Sol Dimension through means that DIDN'T involve screwing with time and space. Probably because he (DogTagz, not Iizuka) likes to think that everyone in the Sol Dimension are idiots, and that what he thinks is Blaze's backstory is superior to her canon one.

Edited December 13, 2012 by Santa Attaxx

[Diogenes]

His theory is equally unsupported whether or not Blaze is originally from the Sol dimension.

[#EndyGate]

The point is the Normies of Sonic's world have options.

They could sit around and wait for Sonic to save them. They could sit around and wait for GUN to save them. They could even sit around and wait for any given number of Sonic's Fuzzy pals from Tails to Shadow to save them. They are so desensitized they hardly even panic anymore.

The people of the Sol Emerald dimension seem to have one option. OH NOES! DO SOMETHING BLAZE! That says a lot about their living environment doesn't it?

Its just as foolish to project that there are other capable characters simply twiddling their thumbs in the SOL dimension.

From what we've seen so far, there simply isn't. As of right now, Blaze is far and away the most powerful thing on her planet. Until proven otherwise, that is a fair enough assumption.

Didn't the characters just sit around twiddling their fingers over the past few games. I mean you didn't see anyone other than Sonic doing anything to reconstruct the planet, investigate and free the planets in the interstellar amusement park, or restore the passage of time other than maybe Tails who only came in for some moral support and random fun facts to move the plot along. Hell, Shadow and G.U.N. did more to hinder the efforts of Sonic than actually help in Generations. So basing your argument that there can't be any other heroes in the Sol Dimension based on one game is a bit farfetch'd. I mean did we get to meet every single hero in Sonic's universe in Sonic 2? No, we just got Tails, and likewise we only got Marine in Rush Adventure. It's not really all that crazy to believe that there's plenty more characters to be found in the Sol Dimension.

I used Cream as an example of a Normie, as in "base" mobian. The base mobians of Blaze's world seem to be significantly less capable than those of Sonic's. That's all I'm saying.

So Cream is considered a Normie, even though she's been shown to be a capable hero and fighter in the games she appeared in? Plus, let's not forget that little bundle of death she always has floating around her.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Honestly, Cream's chao Cheese does more of the work.

Then again, there is Heroes where she's doing her part as air support, so...

[batson]

So Cream is considered a Normie, even though she's been shown to be a capable hero and fighter in the games she appeared in? Plus, let's not forget that little bundle of death she always has floating around her.

Not to mention the fact that she can, you know, fly.

Now that i think about it, by far the most "normie" of the main cast members is Amy. She doesnt have any particular super power and unlike other such characters, such as Cream and Charmy, she cant fly either. I guess shes supposed to be pretty strong, but considering that she is still probably meant to be way weaker than characters whose strenght is really portrayed as way above average for a Sonic-creature (gotta call 'em something), such as Knux and Big, i dont think her supposed strenght really counts in the respect.

But i guess this is to be expected from a character who was originally invented as just a plain old "damsel in distress".

Edited December 13, 2012 by batson

[Your Vest Friend]

But i guess this is to be expected from a character who was originally invented as just a plain old "damsel in distress".

Come to think of it, all the damsels in distress in the Sonic series seem to be more "powerless" than their peers.

-Sally doesn't have any powers either, although the fact that the other FFs bar maybe Bunnie don't either isn't to be ignored either.

-Mina does, but only because of making a deal with the devil that is Mammoth Mogul, and she mostly doesn't use it any more.

-Sera was a catgirl, but she didn't have any powers.

[Diogenes]

Hard to be a damsel in distress if you can get yourself out of distress.

[Sega DogTagz]

And why not? Because that's what they are, y'know.

Why did Vanilla need to be saved? If an ordinary 6 year old can take on Eggman, then obviously an adult should be able to spank his ass with no effort, right?

And if you want to compare Cream to someone, compare her to Marine. Who hasn't fought Nega one-on-one, but has shown potential to be at least as capable as Cream.

I have no problem comparing Cream and Marine.

Its not even close.

Cream, thanks in large part to her Chao Buddy, has been show to be capable enough to tear through stages by herself, blow through Eggman’s boss mechs by herself, Work as an effective tandem with her Hero allies, and even as part of a team. Cream has several world saving adventures to her credit, and she’s a 6 year old.

The only potential Marine has shown is the ability to distract a boss for a second… they aren’t even in the same class.

This applies to everyone in Blaze’s world that we’ve seen so far. Sonic’s world has shown off, what, a grand total of 1 mobian who is relatively helpless. In a sea of furries no less. Even the mentally challenged of Sonic’s dimension seem to be world beaters. *cough*Big*cough*. Aside from Marine, who I again point out is not on Cream’s level, none of the Koala’s or Vikings or anyone else we’ve seen can even scratch that level of ability. None of them are as capable as Cream.

In a smaller sample size, there have been a ton more "duds". Unless there are about 5 or 6 Shadow's walking around in the Sol D. somewhere, their balance curve is shot in comparison to Sonic's zone.

Which is why I am, first and foremost, not making sweeping assumptions about Blaze's world. Instead of making wild assumptions about shit we barely know anything about, simply admit that we don't know.

Under those standards you’d never be satisfied. Thinking like that you’d have to question Sonic’s role as the fastest hedgehog because you haven’t looked under every rock for his cousin jimmy.

We’ve been through a lot of Blaze’s world and know that no one offered her any kind of tangible assistance. We know that when crap hits the fan, Blaze has been the only response her world has mobilized.

Could there be some capable heroes hiding the brush somewhere? Sure, that’s ceritanlly possible, but until I see someone that can at least put up a fight, I wouldn’t call labeling Blaze as the tank of her world being all too sweeping of an assumption.

Who else can rise to her mantle from within her own world? Name drop em if you got em.

No, you're reaching far beyond what the data allows, and looking very stupid because of it.

I have enough data to show a trend.

I think that Mr. DogTagz is deliberately ignoring (or otherwise doesn't know) the fact that Iizuka said at Sonic Boom 2012 that her Sonic 06 backstory isn't her canon one and that she was native to the Sol Dimension through means that DIDN'T involve screwing with time and space.

?

Okay, that doesn’t have much to do with anything I’m saying. I am well aware that the 06 version of her backstory got the axe.

You issued a belief that her current back-story was more plausible/beleivable because it has her being born into her role instead of being dropped from the sky. My response to that was, that shouldn’t matter either way. She’s the strongest thing on her planet, No one else can do her job.

And now we’re here.

Probably because he (DogTagz, not Iizuka) likes to think that everyone in the Sol Dimension are idiots,

I believe I used the term capable.

And the others are grossly un-capable compared to Sonic’s mobian cast. Isn’t that a fair conclusions from what we’ve seen.

and that what he thinks is Blaze's backstory is superior to her canon one.

I never listed MY beliefs on Blaze’s backstory in this thread, nor did I claim one was superior to the other.

Didn't the characters just sit around twiddling their fingers over the past few games. I mean you didn't see anyone other than Sonic doing anything to reconstruct the planet,

What Unleashed?

I’m pretty sure Tails helped out with that.

investigate and free the planets in the interstellar amusement park,

@ 3:10 mark

or restore the passage of time other than maybe Tails who only came in for some moral support and random fun facts to move the plot along.

Well, to be fair, the vast majority of them were either captured or caught in the special distortion in that game.

Hell, Shadow and G.U.N. did more to hinder the efforts of Sonic than actually help in Generations.

Time Travel will do that. They kind hop skipped and jumped to a time that GUN was hellbent on catching Sonic and Shadow was more enemy then friend. Today, GUN is an organization that protects.

So basing your argument that there can't be any other heroes in the Sol Dimension based on one game is a bit farfetch'd. I mean did we get to meet every single hero in Sonic's universe in Sonic 2? No, we just got Tails, and likewise we only got Marine in Rush Adventure. It's not really all that crazy to believe that there's plenty more characters to be found in the Sol Dimension.

But those games did not go out of their way to populate (even sparcly) their world with baseline furry citizens. We’ve seen that in Blaze’s world that those baseline citizens are of the lowest common denominators when it comes to ability. Is it possible that there are some powerful dudes in the mix somewhere? Sure. But is that enough to take the crown away from Blaze until I see it? Of course not.

So Cream is considered a Normie, even though she's been shown to be a capable hero and fighter in the games she appeared in? Plus, let's not forget that little bundle of death she always has floating around her.

My point exactly. Here is a mere child capable of bringing the hurt to Eggman. Further examples include Charmy and Tails (although Tails far exeeds normie). She is a capable hero, without a doubt.

Compare that to Marine, and some of the other furries in the Sol dimension, and I can’t come to the same conclusion. Marine has a special ability to her name, and she isn’t the world beater Cream was on day 1.

Is anyone here honestly willing to stick their neck out there to claim that Blaze somehow isn't the strongest and/or most capable being on her planet?

Otherwise you guys are just poking holes in semantics.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Sega DogTagz

[no one]

Mary sues get their way. Blaze doesnt get her way.

[WarioBone]

-Sally doesn't have any powers either, although the fact that the other FFs bar maybe Bunnie don't either isn't to be ignored either.

I'm not sure, but I think Sueness counts as a power.

[Jack / Joker]

Blaze the Cat is not a Mary Sue in any way, shape or form.

But I do find the character terribly boring.

Overuse of italics doesn't indicate me trying too hard in the slightest!

[Diogenes]

Cream, thanks in large part to her Chao Buddy,

That hardly makes it her own power, does it? Having a large part of her effectiveness be due to someone else means she probably isn't very powerful on her own.

has been show to be capable enough to tear through stages by herself, blow through Eggman’s boss mechs by herself, Work as an effective tandem with her Hero allies, and even as part of a team. Cream has several world saving adventures to her credit, and she’s a 6 year old. No real special powers in tow.

The only potential Marine has shown is the ability to distract a boss for a second… they aren’t even in the same class.

You have a bizarre obsession with the idea that what you've seen is the end-all be-all. Of course Cream has a longer list of accomplishments than Marine; the former's been in several games, the latter only one.

This applies to everyone in Blaze’s world that we’ve seen so far. Sonic’s world has shown off, what, a grand total of 1 mobian who is relatively helpless. In a sea of furries no less. Even the mentally challenged of Sonic’s dimension seem to be world beaters. *cough*Big*cough*. Aside from Marine, who I again point out is not on Cream’s level, none of the Koala’s or Vikings or anyone else we’ve seen can even scratch that level of ability. None of them are as capable as Cream.

The animal NPCs in SRA are basically equivalent to the human NPCs in Unleashed. Defining them apart from each other is making you say stupid things.

Under those standards you’d never be satisfied. Thinking like that you’d have to question Sonic’s role as the fastest hedgehog because you haven’t looked under every rock for his cousin jimmy.

Sonic being the fastest hedgehog is something that's been officially confirmed. Blaze being the only competent character in her entire world has not.

We’ve been through a lot of Blaze’s world

Proof? We visited a few islands and met a small handful of people. There's nothing that says this is any more than a tiny fraction of her world.

and know that no one offered her any kind of tangible assistance. We know that when crap hits the fan, Blaze has been the only response her world has mobilized.

The entire world doesn't throw itself at every problem. Unless you think SA, Heroes, and Unleashed proved that GUN doesn't exist, because they didn't rush off to stop Eggman/monsters or render assistance in some other way.

Could there be some capable heroes hiding the brush somewhere? Sure, that’s ceritanlly possible, but until I see someone that can at least put up a fight, I wouldn’t call labeling Blaze as the tank of her world being all too sweeping of an assumption.

Unfortunately for you it still is.

I have enough data to show a trend.

Only if you think it's valid for me to assume that one in twelveish residents of Blaze's world are superhuman. Same data set, dude.

But those games did not go out of their way to populated (even sparcly) their world with baseline citizens. We’ve seen that in Blaze’s world and those baseline citizens are of the lowest common denominators when it comes to ability.

Which is equally true of Sonic's world, we just haven't seen any of them as animals.

Is anyone here honestly willing to stick their neck out there to claim that Blaze somehow isn't the strongest and/or most capable being on her planet?

Otherwise you guys are just poking holes in semantics.

She is the strongest that we know about, and you can't prove a damn word more than that. Edited December 14, 2012 by Diogenes

[Sega DogTagz]

That hardly makes it her own power, does it? Having a large part of her effectiveness be due to someone else means she probably isn't very powerful on her own.

Is a gun slinger any less dangerous because he uses a tool to do his damage?

Cream can utilize and manipulate her chao in ways unseen in the rest of the series. Furthermore, she’s constantly on the frontlines of major confrontations. That is a combination of her ability and her bravery.

You have a bizarre obsession with the idea that what you've seen is the end-all be-all. Of course Cream has a longer list of accomplishments than Marine; the former's been in several games, the latter only one.

Cream was a world beater on day 1 (Sonic Advance 2). Even if you want to limit the discussion to their first appearance, you can’t possibly put Marine on Creams level.

The animal NPCs in SRA are basically equivalent to the human NPCs in Unleashed. Defining them apart from each other is making you say stupid things.

In this series humans are swathed as powerless and meaningless (outside of the Eggman linage anyway).

99% of the furriers in Sonic’s world are heroes. I separate the two because over the 20 odd years of the franchise, that is what we have come to expect.

Sonic being the fastest hedgehog is something that's been officially confirmed.

Confirmed and contradicted. Several times.

Just sayin.

The entire world doesn't throw itself at every problem. Unless you think SA, Heroes, and Unleashed proved that GUN doesn't exist, because they didn't rush off to stop Eggman/monsters or render assistance in some other way.

Everybody doesn’t have to show up to every threat, but in each one of those games, more than one hero heeded the call. SA-6, Heroes-12, Unleashed-2 (3 if you count chip).

Blaze has had a hand in stopping 2 global disasters, and she’s still sitting by her lonesome on that front.

Only if you think it's valid for me to assume that one in twelveish residents of Blaze's world are superhuman. Same data set, dude.

Blaze isn’t a normie, you can’t include her in the data set. Is more like 1 marine to every 12 guys.

She is the strongest that we know about, and you can't prove a damn word more than that.

As I said before, that’s backward logic. I could stick almost any scenario in a sentence like that and it would be true.

Sonic is the only character that can run at mach 1 that we know about.

Tails, Gerald and Eggman are the smartest characters in the franchise that we know about.

Big is the strongest character that we know about.

Cheese is the strongest chao, that we know about.

See how that works? You can’t frame this issue in that light because then anything and everything would be left on the table. Until such a time occurs that someone in Blaze’s world rises up to make themselves known, they simply don’t matter in this discussion.

Am I preventing such a thing from occurring? No. But if your willing to deny Blaze the title on such pretentious grounds then you might as well pack it in and tell me that there is a psychokinetic out there that could put Silver to shame or a prototype ultimate lifeform created to be even stronger than Shadow sitting in a tube somewhere. All under the simple guise that we just don't know about them yet.

We can only work with what we know. Is Blaze not the strongest person on her world? Please, enlighten me otherwise.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Sega DogTagz

[Diogenes]

Is a gun slinger any less dangerous because he uses a tool to do his damage?

A gunslinger needs a certain amount of skill, otherwise he's just an idiot with a gun (who can still do a lot of damage, but not usually in a productive manner). All Cream has to do is point and Cheese will dive bomb whatever's within range.

Furthermore, she’s constantly on the frontlines of major confrontations. That is a combination of her ability and her bravery.

Constantly, like, twice? And she's never been anything more than a bit player even in her biggest roles.

Cream was a world beater on day 1 (Sonic Advance 2). Even if you want to limit the discussion to their first appearance, you can’t possibly put Marine on Creams level.

Try thinking beyond what has been explicitly shown. That Cream did more her first time does not prove that Marine cannot compete.

In this series humans are swathed as powerless and meaningless (outside of the Eggman linage anyway).

99% of the furriers in Sonic’s world are heroes. I separate the two because over the 20 odd years of the franchise, that is what we have come to expect.

And then when the paradigm changes you are completely unable to make a rational argument. You've focused on the coincidence rather than what actually guides the series and its characters.

Everybody doesn’t have to show up to every threat, but in each one of those games, more than one hero heeded the call. SA-6, Heroes-12, Unleashed-2 (3 if you count chip).

Blaze has had a hand in stopping 2 global disasters, and she’s still sitting by her lonesome on that front.

Basically the only way the games would've done otherwise would be to either write completely different stories or write really shitty versions of those stories. Blaze was the only power player from her world because that's all the stories required.

Blaze isn’t a normie, you can’t include her in the data set. Is more like 1 marine to every 12 guys.

So your argument is that all normals are normals. Brilliant fucking tautology. You gonna tell me that all blue hedgehogs are blue next?

As I said before, that’s backward logic. I could stick almost any scenario in a sentence like that and it would be true.

Sonic is the only character that can run at mach 1 that we know about.

Tails, Gerald and Eggman are the smartest characters in the franchise that we know about.

Big is the strongest character that we know about.

Cheese is the strongest chao, that we know about.

That's not backwards thinking, that's how proper reasoning works. If you don't have the facts, you don't speak in absolutes. If you can't understand that, there's no point in continuing this, because you do not understand how to think.