Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[Flip the Bird]

There's nothing really wrong with SA2's tone honestly, and if anything it's the one game that actually gets "darker and edgier" Sonic right.

The main problems with it would be the hiccups in its plot (which can be solved by making it more consistent), or its realistic aesthetics which SA1 is equally to blame for, if not more so for starting it. But other than that, nothing wrong with having another SA2-level of darkness. Wouldn't mind having another one.

 

Now, ShTH dark? That can fuck right off. Even as someone who likes when things get darker and edgier, that was absolute shit. But to reiterate what everyone else has said, the whole summary is basically this: it doesn't matter how light, dark, complex, or simple the story is, it can still suck major ass if handled badly. It's all about quality and execution. 

 

No one complained about the Classics because aside from S3&K they barely even had much of a plot in the first place (unless you're going by the Japanese where they had more than expected). And while I agree that characters other than Sonic and Eggman shouldn't be around without impacting the plot, they don't have to regress back to the Classic's level of simplicity to tell stories. That's not saying they shouldn't have a simple plot if they want, but that they shouldn't be required to stick to it anymore than they should stick to a more complex plot.

 

We just need to make the stories, whether simple or complex, good and fitting within the style of the franchise. It says a lot that every other platformer, Mario (Paper Mario 1, Thousand Year Door, and Super Paper Mario), Megaman (X and Zero series), Rayman (mainly Rayman 2), and many others have had complex stories as dark as SA2 (if not darker given Megaman Zero showing people dying on screen and it's story being about genocide).

 

My personal views on Adventure 2 is a whole separate unpopular opinion that holds no merit in this convo so I won't get into that but I agree, ShTH can go fuck itself.

 

What I'm saying is build the plot and tone through the levels. When I say keep Sonic's tone away from the 'edgy' nature, I literally mean keep him away from that. Sonic could be dark but do it through the levels or save it till they become more competent at designing Sonic's gameplay/writing. Sonic should be fun to play so let the levels construct the tone. It's not a matter of complexity in the plot, the plot is only as good as the gameplay allows it to be. I don't mean they are required to stick to anything. However, streamline things by starting with base Sonic and his traits, moving the story along by making interesting dynamic levels where Robotnik (Or whoever else is villain) is visibly doing things that effect the plot, and keeping Sonic the cocky bastard he is while avoiding the negative, over complicated, aspects of the writing would work wonders.

 

I may be the only one who thinks this but it couldn't possibly be regression to revert back to basics at this point. Anything where gameplay polish and fun factor come first would be the best possible thing Sonic Team could do, in my opinion.

 

Yes, the classics didn't have a story till maybe the end of 2, but another reason people didn't complain is because the gameplay moved the plot and was fun to play. Hint's why I believe, they should move the plot through the levels and keep Sonic away from the negative aspects of his 3D career story wise till they finally get the level design right. Giving him a lighter, more Genesis era tone would work cause it's already a benchmark. Not saying any of the 3D games aren't good enough to spruce up but between a guaranteed formula to get back into the swing of things or a shot in the dark with a formula that was never perfected... I think the higher percentage shot is better for Sonic Team in their current situation. It would certainly make things more appealing for people who like the classics and the levels being dynamic with a fast pace would please the modern Sonic fanatics as well. Cut-scenes would still serve their purpose, but leave chucks of the plot move through each stage dynamically.

 

To sum all this up: I have read/seen comments on many videos asking/begging for a darker more mature Sonic... Considering how Sonic is in a delicate balancing act in terms of relevance, my unpopular opinion was: Take it back to gameplay central, let the plot move in the zones, have the tone similar to the Genesis games (till they learn what works in Sonic's levels anyway) but make it fun, fast and dynamic. Everyone wins.

 

P.S. I didn't check for any typos, too caught up in other things at the moment. My bad if there's any grammatical errors here and there.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Because the point isn't strawmanning, it's to make a metaphor to try and convey the idea. I'm sorry, it's how I structure my thoughts, by comparisons. X is like Y, and if you don't understand what I mean by X, then an approximation by Y might help. See? Just did it right now and didn't even think of it.

And I disagree that that really works. The point of Zero was a completely different tone from Mega Man. It's a brand unto itself, like X, etc etc. Paper Mario is still somehow Mario, still somehow in Mario's world, etc etc. I'll assume Rayman in 2 is still Rayman, etc etc. Zero is a different character in what's for all effects a different world (centuries after) all with a different tone. SA2 is Sonic, in Sonic's World. It's comparable to the Mario and Rayman examples, but Zero really doesn't gel here.

...a metaphor, huh?

 

Well, see, here's the problem, which I hope clears the miscommunication: when someone states X and you make a statement about X by stating Y, that comes off as a strawman.

 

Thing is, I know Zero is a completely different character in a world with a different tone (centuries after Classic and X series). That's not my point - Zero as a series is still connected to X, which is also connected to Classic. So as far as I'm concerned, they fall under the same blanket as one world as a result of those connections. You say they're like X and Y, but for me this is like X (Classic), X+1 (X series), and X+2 (Zero series), and Y would be Megaman Battle Network which has no connection to either of those three series whatsoever beyond a reference. You see where I'm going with this and how someone can find what your doing annoying?

 

I mean, I get where you're coming from in how you structure things now, but that still causes problems when someone picks two things that succeed each other, and then you compare something that has no connection to each other (DCAU and Marvel) that ends up coming off as a strawman. And I can't guarantee you clearing that with me won't continue to cause similar problems later down the line.

My personal views on Adventure 2 is a whole separate unpopular opinion that holds no merit in this convo so I won't get into that but I agree, ShTH can go fuck itself.

 

What I'm saying is build the plot and tone through the levels. When I say keep Sonic's tone away from the 'edgy' nature, I literally mean keep him away from that. Sonic could be dark but do it through the levels or save it till they become more competent at designing Sonic's gameplay/writing. Sonic should be fun to play so let the levels construct the tone. It's not a matter of complexity in the plot, the plot is only as good as the gameplay allows it to be. I don't mean they are required to stick to anything. However, streamline things by starting with base Sonic and his traits, moving the story along by making interesting dynamic levels where Robotnik (Or whoever else is villain) is visibly doing things that effect the plot, and keeping Sonic the cocky bastard he is while avoiding the negative, over complicated, aspects of the writing would work wonders.

 

I may be the only one who thinks this but it couldn't possibly be regression to revert back to basics at this point. Anything where gameplay polish and fun factor come first would be the best possible thing Sonic Team could do, in my opinion.

 

Yes, the classics didn't have a story till maybe the end of 2, but another reason people didn't complain is because the gameplay moved the plot and was fun to play. Hint's why I believe, they should move the plot through the levels and keep Sonic away from the negative aspects of his 3D career story wise till they finally get the level design right. Giving him a lighter, more Genesis era tone would work cause it's already a benchmark. Not saying any of the 3D games aren't good enough to spruce up but between a guaranteed formula to get back into the swing of things or a shot in the dark with a formula that was never perfected... I think the higher percentage shot is better for Sonic Team in their current situation. It would certainly make things more appealing for people who like the classics and the levels being dynamic with a fast pace would please the modern Sonic fanatics as well. Cut-scenes would still serve their purpose, but leave chucks of the plot move through each stage dynamically.

 

To sum all this up: I have read/seen comments on many videos asking/begging for a darker more mature Sonic... Considering how Sonic is in a delicate balancing act in terms of relevance, my unpopular opinion was: Take it back to gameplay central, let the plot move in the zones, have the tone similar to the Genesis games (till they learn what works in Sonic's levels anyway) but make it fun, fast and dynamic. Everyone wins.

Ah, I get what you're saying.

 

Although a lot of people look at plot and level design as generally separate entities that synergize with each other as far as storytelling goes. So when you say "Plot", "Tone", and "Writing," that tends to be read as something for cutscenes while things like "Gameplay" tend to be seen as a different kind of cog. It's complicated I suppose.

 

I still maintain that keeping Sonic away from the darker tones would help, because they could just as easily screw up the lighter tones as well. Incompetence can ruin both sides of the spectrum.

[Diogenes]

And my point is that every iteration of Megaman games from Classic to Zero is comparable to iterations of Sonic games from Sonic 1 to SA2

I feel like this comparison overlooks the very important point that classic Megaman, X, Zero, etc, are all different characters in different settings, each designed for their particular tone, while Sonic is supposed to be a single, contiguous thing (Boom aside). The comparison sets up SA2 as the equivalent of trying to do a MMZero story with Classic Megaman characters.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I feel like this comparison overlooks the very important point that classic Megaman, X, Zero, etc, are all different characters in different settings, each designed for their particular tone, while Sonic is supposed to be a single, contiguous thing (Boom aside). The comparison sets up SA2 as the equivalent of trying to do a MMZero story with Classic Megaman characters.

And I feel you're missing the point that:

1. I'm well aware of them being different characters in different settings. Anyone knowledgable about the franchise knows they're different, but their series are still connected. I even clarified that above.
2. That what I'm saying is essentially "we just need to make the stories, whether simple or complex, good and fitting within the style of the franchise. It says a lot that every other platformer...have had complex stories as dark as SA2."
3. That said differences in characters and settings is completely beside the above points made.

Like, even TheKKM understood that second point at the very least. That's why I used Rayman and Mario as other examples, which you omitted from quoting (e.g. "just like all the other examples from franchises like Mario and Rayman despite them having separate branches"), because the initial point had less to do with the individual character and more to do with the overall series and stories they told.

[Diogenes]

But I'm saying that X and Zero are the way they are because they radically redefined what "Megaman" means, not by writing to fit the existing style of the series.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

But I'm saying that X and Zero are the way they are because they radically redefined what "Megaman" means, not by writing to fit the existing style of the series.

And I'm saying that's beside my point, and that X and Zero, like Rayman with Rayman 2 and Mario with his Paper Series, have told darker and edgier plots within their franchises as a whole comparable to Sonic's SA2. That's it.

Nothing about what they defined or the characters involved, just the general tones of the plots they told. Anything else is strawmanning at this point.

[E-122-Psi]

Can you post unpopular opinions on behalf of others?

 

Because my sister's favorite Sonic game is Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine.

 

She has good taste. An awesome puzzler. I actually enjoy some of the tweaks it made from Puyo Puyo as well such as the extra music tracks and more fluid animations. If they were going to edit the game though, they could have done with keeping some aspects such as the progressing backgrounds or using Sonic or Tails as an Arle type player character though.

 

Truthfully I don't know how unpopular an opinion that is. It's usually ranked the best Genesis/Megadrive title after the main trilogy. It tends to only get flak because 1. It's barely a Sonic title, 2. It's a bastardisation of another series.

 

 

[Diogenes]

You don't get to shout "strawman!" just because you don't want to engage with criticism.

You tried to map the progression of Sonic from S1 to SA2, to the progression of Megaman from classic to Zero. But you refuse to account for how Megaman's progression relies on new subseries that redefine "Megaman", and how that's contrary to the idea of staying in tune with the existing style of the series.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

You don't get to shout "strawman!" just because you don't want to engage with criticism.

I do when said criticism is criticizing something that wasn't my point in the first place after I already clarified myself more than once, and you keep trying to twist it into something else. Because that's the definition of a strawman.

You tried to map the progression of Sonic from S1 to SA2, to the progression of Megaman from classic to Zero. But you refuse to account for how Megaman's progression relies on new subseries that redefine "Megaman", and how that's contrary to the idea of staying in tune with the existing style of the series.

Yeah I tried to map the progression of Sonic 1 to SA2 and from Classic Megaman to Zero to make the point about both franchises progressing into darker and edgier stories, just like with Rayman and Mario (other examples I've made that you're keen on ignoring) have done. I know how different the X and Zero series are from Classic in terms of characters and setting, but again that's not my point.

[Mauro Fonseca]

The problem is, it's not mappable, because they're different circumstances of "darker and edgier". Call it strawmanning all you want (I'm pretty sure you're wrong on that, incidentally), but this really does deserve the comparison to Ren and Stimpy. Sonic is a cohesive whole and world. So you compare it to Rayman, which as far as I know is the same, sure. You compare it to Mario, which as far as I know is the same, sure. And then you compare it to Mega Man Zero, where IT ISN'T.

It's a spinoff. A new brand. It's not an example of a children's property getting edgier in a natural way because it's instead a children's property getting a spinoff that's darker and edgier in a way that does not connect tonally or thematically at all. It's technically the same world, yes. But the setting is far removed, the art style is different, the characters aren't even the same.

It is to Classic Mega Man as Adult Cartoon Party is to Ren and Stimpy, per se (obvious disclaimer as you seem to need these, exaggeration, yadda yadda, Zero isn't quite as adult as Adult Cartoon Party, yadda yadda, point is it's also a situation of a children's product getting a spinoff that's not aimed at children at all instead of having an evolution into "maturity" in itself). Sonic has no comparison. There is nothing like this in Sonic. Pretending there is is wrong.

The problem isn't your point. The problem is you used an example that doesn't apply to your point, and you don't seem to get that.

[Your Vest Friend]

Rayman has like the most drastic tonal changes I think I've ever in a single trilogy. Rayman 1 was cutesy and sweet, Rayman 2 did an entire 180 by making deep lore and having the tone really dark compared to the original, and Rayman 3 takes 2's art style but transfers it to an almost entirely comedic tone. I wouldn't call it a progression since it was never gradual.

 

I do wish that Origins and Legends took more from Rayman 2 in terms of characters and story (Not just Globox and the Teensies, although adapting Polokus was a start), but they were the most consistent with the tone between games.

 

...I dunno, I just think it's a bad example, at least Sonic had some sort of stepping stone path you can follow with the games to see how they got to SA2's tone. 

[Briraka]

For anyone who's arguing that Sonic is comparable to only classic Megaman, remember that there was a game where a robot master made a heroic sacrifice and if the player failed at the game that they would be treated to a cutscene of Roll fucking dying.

 

Sonic, I believe, can potentially do dark and edgy. Maybe SA2 onwards weren't the best ways of doing so because of how they gradually became less about what the games were or didn't expand upon the ideas present in the previous titles.The X series expands the concept of the classic games robots with, "what if they could think and feel for themselves?" Likewise, what if there was a Sonic game that featured Eggman commuting genocide on a race of alien robots to dissect them and use the knowledge he acquired from that to power up his badniks? It would still have the themes from the classic titles where Eggman captures and/or enslaves something, but given some edge due to the extreme carelessness regarding the lives of that which he has conquered.

[E-122-Psi]

I think that's why people tend to be more forgiving towards SA1. It had a darker theme, but it was one that deconstructed the usual whimsy of the original games story, eg. Knuckles' lost tribe, or Gamma showing a perspective of a badnik. It introduced the human cities that were a stylistic clash, but they seemed superficial at this point, the classic elements were the heart of it. SA2 kept the odd detail but it was obvious it was starting to go a rather different road from the old games from that point, the story being more about the humans and their backstories and environments, and the original cartoon animals almost seeming like out of place aliens. It kept some relevance due to Eggman's family, albeit not a great deal enough not to make it feel a bit out of place. Sonic X even poked fun of that. What were more moderate problems in SA2 went over the top with Shadow and just plain ridiculous in Next Gen, which seemed to be trying more to be a grandiose anime science fiction epic than much about the franchise itself.

 

 

This is a recurring problem with many attempts to be dark, a lot of the creative team don't really seem specifically interested in making the Sonic world dark, and often just completely reinvent a new universe with the old elements tacked on because they have to use them. They'd likely be better off just making a new franchise.

 

[Agie]

 

 

She has good taste. An awesome puzzler. I actually enjoy some of the tweaks it made from Puyo Puyo as well such as the extra music tracks and more fluid animations. If they were going to edit the game though, they could have done with keeping some aspects such as the progressing backgrounds or using Sonic or Tails as an Arle type player character though.

 

Truthfully I don't know how unpopular an opinion that is. It's usually ranked the best Genesis/Megadrive title after the main trilogy. It tends to only get flak because 1. It's barely a Sonic title, 2. It's a bastardisation of another series.

 

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

I think that's why people tend to be more forgiving towards SA1. It had a darker theme, but it was one that deconstructed the usual whimsy of the original games story, eg. Knuckles' lost tribe, or Gamma showing a perspective of a badnik. It introduced the human cities that were a stylistic clash, but they seemed superficial at this point, the classic elements were the heart of it. SA2 kept the odd detail but it was obvious it was starting to go a rather different road from the old games from that point, the story being more about the humans and their backstories and environments, and the original cartoon animals almost seeming like out of place aliens. It kept some relevance due to Eggman's family, albeit not a great deal enough not to make it feel a bit out of place. Sonic X even poked fun of that. What were more moderate problems in SA2 went over the top with Shadow and just plain ridiculous in Next Gen, which seemed to be trying more to be a grandiose anime science fiction epic than much about the franchise itself.

 

 

This is a recurring problem with many attempts to be dark, a lot of the creative team don't really seem specifically interested in making the Sonic world dark, and often just completely reinvent a new universe with the old elements tacked on because they have to use them. They'd likely be better off just making a new franchise.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

The problem isn't your point. The problem is you used an example that doesn't apply to your point, and you don't seem to get that.

[Mauro Fonseca]

For anyone who's arguing that Sonic is comparable to only classic Megaman, remember that there was a game where a robot master made a heroic sacrifice and if the player failed at the game that they would be treated to a cutscene of Roll fucking dying.

 

Sonic, I believe, can potentially do dark and edgy. Maybe SA2 onwards weren't the best ways of doing so because of how they gradually became less about what the games were or didn't expand upon the ideas present in the previous titles.The X series expands the concept of the classic games robots with, "what if they could think and feel for themselves?" Likewise, what if there was a Sonic game that featured Eggman commuting genocide on a race of alien robots to dissect them and use the knowledge he acquired from that to power up his badniks? It would still have the themes from the classic titles where Eggman captures and/or enslaves something, but given some edge due to the extreme carelessness regarding the lives of that which he has conquered.

 

Yes, and that wasn't my point. I was never arguing that Sonic can or can not be dark, I'm saying comparing Sonic 1- Adventure 2 to Clasic Mega Man to Zero is not a valid comparison. Because...

 

And that's where you're completely wrong and purposely misinterpreting what I'm saying.

My point was, and I reiterate, that "we just need to make the stories, whether simple or complex, good and fitting within the style of the franchise. It says a lot that every other platformer...have had complex stories as dark as SA2." Meaning any good (or rather "well recieved") platformer with a complex story as dark as SA2 in its franchise applies. Nothing more or less than that.

It isn't talking about how different a character Zero is to Classic Megaman and how Sonic is the same character through all games unrelated to Boom, a detail which you know perfectly well I'm aware of, or the aesthetics that set them apart, but that it's story, like the other examples I've made, is complex and dark as SA2 for the franchise as a general whole. Nothing more, nothing less, and that it being having a different character and setting for it doesn't invalidate that point for the franchise as a general whole. To continue telling me about Zero's differences after I've made this clear is exactly why it's a strawman, because I said nothing of the sort nor have I refuted or called any attention to that detail or its circumstances in the first place.

And we can go all week over this if you want.

Let's go all week, then.

Mega Man and Mega Man Zero are different platformer properties.

There was no evolution of one to the other.

You can say "even other platformers had darker stories" and point at Mega Man intending to use, I dunno, Super Adventure Rockman as an example. It's the same property.

You can't say "even other platformers had darker stories" and point at Mega Man intending to compare to how Mega Man 1 for the NES is lighthearted and Zero isn't.

Because despite the connections in story, it's not the same property. Not the same brand. Not treated as such. It's from the start a new game series, with a new tone.

It's therefore not a good example for your argument. Because the only way it'd apply would be if, say, Boom had gone grimdark. THEN you'd have a similar situation- a new but connected brand with a different tone, instead of an evolution of tone inside the brand.

tl;dr- Zero != Mega Man Classic, if you made a Classic with a story with a tone like Zero's it wouldn't be well received because people understand they're not the same brand, it is not applicable as an example of "good platforming franchises have had darker stories so long as they fit the style of the franchise".

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

 

Yes, and that wasn't my point.

Just like how, if you'd bother to notice, what you're saying isn't my point either.

 

And this...

 

 

tl;dr- Zero != Mega Man Classic,

All the more highlights why everything you're saying is a strawman, even more so after telling you that I know Zero is different from Classic. Because nowhere did I say that Zero was equal to Mega Man Classic, anymore than I said Super Paper Mario is equal to Super Mario Galaxy, or Rayman 2 was equal to Rayman 3.

 

My point is, once again, that "we just need to make the stories, whether simple or complex, good and fitting within the style of the franchise. It says a lot that every other platformer...have had complex stories as dark as SA2." Nothing more, nothing less. All I'm comparing is just the general story and the tone of the general franchises as a whole compared to other franchises.

[Mauro Fonseca]

But you then use Mega Man Zero, which doesn't doesn't have a complex story that fits with the style of the franchise, because it treats itself as a different franchise from Classic. It's not playing by the same rules. There's no "if it's good and fits in is fine", because it doesn't fit in, because it neither tries nor needs to, because it's not the same series, unlike SA2, or Rayman, or Paper Mario, which is technically a separate series but one that defines itself as fitting inside the general Mario style, unlike Zero.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

But you then use Mega Man Zero, which doesn't doesn't have a complex story that fits with the style of the franchise, because it treats itself as a different franchise from Classic. It's not playing by the same rules. There's no "if it's good and fits in is fine", because it doesn't fit in, because it neither tries nor needs to, because it's not the same series, unlike SA2, or Rayman, or Paper Mario, which is technically a separate series but one that defines itself as fitting inside the general Mario style, unlike Zero.

No it doesn't treat itself as a different franchise from Classic. It treats itself as a different series. The "franchise" encompasses everything, as in Classic, X, Zero, and other Megaman works fall under the umbrella of the "Megaman" franchise as a whole, just like Sonic Boom, X, SatAM, the comics, and the games, fall under the general "Sonic" franchise as a whole. In so far as what I'm trying to clarify here.

 

So while Zero is different from Classic, it's still "Megaman" as far as the franchise goes. Otherwise, it wouldn't use that name as part of its title in the first place and just be called "Zero". And as such I use Zero because it is plenty complex in the style of the franchise, at least to the extent that SA2 is for Sonic as per my point.

[Mauro Fonseca]

Fair enough then. I still insist you're using the wrong example, but you'll insist on it.

[E-122-Psi]

I do admit, I question whether or not altering Puyo Puyo into Mean Bean Machine was worth it.

 

On one hand, the original characters may never stand a chance here thanks to it.

 

On the other hand, I'm glad many AoStH characters got at least one chance at being in a game.

 

So I'm torn on it. However, I can't bring myself to hate it, or even give it flak. It's what introduced me to the gameplay, after all.

 

 

Hell it gave many AoSth one chance to shine PERIOD. You can count the number of animation frames Spike or Sir Ffuzzy Logik appeared in the show itself. I admit that might be an extra fascination to it, I like stuff that focuses on the obscure, especially since a lot of the pilot robots had cool designs.

 

*incoming shameless self prrrrrromotion*

 

I don't think Mean Bean Machine or Kirby's Ghost Trap is a valid excuse for SEGA to ignore Puyo Puyo however. They exported the GBA title and Fever here and from what I know they didn't bomb. They've even went as far as giving the franchise it's own altered title of 'Puyo Pop' here. It made sense beforehand because the series was connected to an RPG no one outside Japan knew about, but now it's it's own thing. At the very least we could get a upgraded MBM/KGT or another edited version of a sequel if they're that uppity about it.

 

[Agie]

Popular: I can barely remember most of the Deadly Six.

 

Unpopular: But I can't hate them. Also unpopular; I actually like Zazz. His personality spoke to me, and I like his voice acting. Made me think of some hammy 90s animated film villain, and I love that.

[Your Vest Friend]

Probably a very unpopular opinion here; Sonic X-Treme coming out would have had very little impact on the franchise, if any at all.

 

I'll explain why I think this;

 

1. The SEGA Saturn was already in trouble by the time X-Treme was scheduled to release. It already was getting major heat from the Nintendo 64, the Playstation and its own errors with marketing and economics (being overpriced would not help), so I doubt the one game would have turned its fortunes drastically.
 

2. We know that Sonic Team had worked on NiGHTS, which was released in July 1996 at its earliest date. Given the scope of Sonic Adventure, it was likely already in the very preliminary stages of development by the time X-Treme was due to roll around, so it wouldn't have been affected by X-Treme's release.

 

3. The game was developed by STI (as in, actually STI and not a relocated branch of Sonic Team). Everything that didn't have a tie to Sonic Team was basically wiped with Sonic Adventure, and I don't think X-Treme would have been an exception to that.

 

4. The game just doesn't look that impacting. I think it looks outright bad, but even if you think it looks good, I don't think anyone could argue that it would hold its own when Super Mario 64 and Crash Bandicoot had entered the market earlier that year.

 

At most, I think the game would have been remember as the one that tried to compete with the 3D goliaths at the time and failed to do so for various reasons. And we'd also have yet another scrapped character people would argue over whether she should return.

[E-122-Psi]

I feel that if Xtreme (and the other Sonic Saturn games that were inevitably cancelled such as the port of Fighters and the other STI platformer with a Pool game) had gotten a release, the Saturn MIGHT have lasted a little longer, even if those who bought into it might have felt a bit ripped off. It at the very least might not have been considered the 'dark age' of the series, with two rereleases and a somewhat limited racer.

 

They should have made Puyo SUN into another Mean Bean Machine. It would have had a good puzzler here at least. XD