Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[E-122-Psi]

11 minutes ago, RedFox99 said:

The issue I had was that she often br told by the others to stay back and not do anything.

I don't think that was the problem in itself but more it didn't really go anywhere. Having Cream be actually treated as a six year old gave her a more unique dynamic, it's just that after a while no development came out of it, she just came in handy odd times at random and was otherwise sidelined, rather than having points she proved she was capable and the Freedom Fighters' attitudes changed.

Sonic X suffered the same problem, she was the tagalong kid who often stayed behind but often that felt more like just an excuse to keep her out of focus. During the Meterax arc they just quickly hand waved it with her mother bizarrely letting her go alone, and the one time anyone voiced concern about this they were portrayed in the wrong and very sharply told by Cream and the others to keep their big nose out of it. And yet Cream still barely did anything useful or had a different dynamic from it.

The 'just a kid' excuse doesn't seem as much a developed role for her as much as just a fickle reasoning for when they don't have room to use her.

[BaronGrackle]

EDIT: My phone must be glitching...

Edited May 21, 2018 by BaronGrackle

[Korke]

Cream was supposed to embody the face of civilians from Sonic universe, in a more relatable way getting closer to the main cast.

I fail to understand why was everyone demanding her to become one of the FF's in the post-reboot era. Even the japanese has understood that by not including her on the Sega Freedom Fighters Resistance.

[E-122-Psi]

1 hour ago, Korke said:

Cream was supposed to embody the face of civilians from Sonic universe, in a more relatable way getting closer to the main cast.

I fail to understand why was everyone demanding her to become one of the FF's in the post-reboot era. Even the japanese has understood that by not including her on the Sega Freedom Fighters Resistance.

Because as mentioned it was used only when the plot saw fit, and often not in a very developed manner. And Cream REALLY needs development.

[Iko]

As much as I would like Cream to appear more in the main series, I think she doesn't fit in any military organization, so it's ok that they left her out of the resistance. Though, it would have been interesting to explore the story of Sonic Forces from her point of view, her and Vanilla trying to survive to Eggman's roobots and eventually an attack of Infinite. Since Vanilla is unable to fight, it would have been an opportunity to give her some development, at first her mother tries to be protective with her, then Cream starts being more confident about her fighting skills and learns to be more independent, until at the end it's her who defends Vanilla instead, gaining her trust and the authorization to fight on her own for the good (not as a part of the resistance, but to defend some civilians who live close to her).

This said, it still makes no sense that she was not in Sonic Colors, it was the perfect game for her to appear, too bad it was in the golden age of "Sola Sonica".

[Your Vest Friend]

33 minutes ago, Iko said:

This said, it still makes no sense that she was not in Sonic Colors, it was the perfect game for her to appear, too bad it was in the golden age of "Sola Sonica".

If you're talking about the Wii version, nobody was.

If you're talking about the DS version, she's the first character who gives you missions. 

[Skull Leader]

To be fair, pretty much a majority of the characters don't make sense to form an organized group since I believe that by doing so, they lose their individuality, including their personal motivations and goals.

In Forces, it would at least had felt credible if they had gone the Sonic Adventure way of telling each of their stories, from how Eggman's takeover affected them directly how the manage to not get captured and survive during Sonic's abscence, how they meet and how they come to work together, instead of misplacing the focus on the unnecessary Classic Sonic nor the dull and lifeless rookie, whom everyone praised and sucked up to in such a ridiculous manner.

I know that the term "Sonic's friends" is a generic way to reffer to any character that is not on the bad side, but not all of them are friends (at least not close) with each other and for them to actually come together, I think a transition might be needed to conciliate their goals, esoecially the clashing one's like Knuckles prioritizing the recovery of the ME or Rouge wanting the chance to steal some goodies, towards a common one.

Likewise, something that would help the story is if the characters were to be allowed to be themselves and add with what they are capable of doing, instead of giving the apparently more important/relevant roles based on popularity, like it happened with Knuckles being the commander, despite him being the least qualified of them all.

Likewise I hope that the Resistance thing does not last long in the IDW comic since, as much as I love seeing Amy be acknowledged as the one that was doing the actual work of leading, I don't want her or any of the other characters to be tied down to a Freedom Fighters 2.0 group.

[Iko]

3 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

If you're talking about the Wii version, nobody was.

If you're talking about the DS version, she's the first character who gives you missions. 

Yeah I know that in the DS version most of the characters were in the game giving you missions, but I'm refering to a more important role and maybe being playable too. The game is placed into an huge amusement park, I think that characters such as Cream and maybe Charmy should have been in. Like, "let's go all together to the theme park!" and they end in trouble. In the DS version they appear, but they are just there, without a reason, and along with everyone else.

In my opinion, the main characters in the game should have been Sonic, Amy (she wanted to go to Twinkle Park with Sonic in SA1), Tails, Cream and the Chaotix (blaming Charmy for getting in trouble because he was the one who wanted to go to the amusement park at any cost). No knuckles for once, since he has no reason to visit an amusement park. 7 characters are a bit too much but maybe not all of them are playable?

Instead, the theme park is completely empty in the actual game (Wii), it feels so odd.

[Razule]

8 hours ago, Korke said:

Cream was supposed to embody the face of civilians from Sonic universe, in a more relatable way getting closer to the main cast.

I fail to understand why was everyone demanding her to become one of the FF's in the post-reboot era. Even the japanese has understood that by not including her on the Sega Freedom Fighters Resistance.

If she isn't good for anything but being a civilian, then what's the point of her being around at all? 

[Korke]

1 minute ago, Razule said:

If she isn't good for anything but being a civilian, then what's the point of her being around at all? 

Don't have her around. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Skull Leader]

I think that Sonic Color's plot about Eggman building a park for everyone to enjoy as part of him "turning on a new leaf" (but secretely planning a scheme) was a much, much better opportunity to have a story/game with multiple characters than Forces was... and with a more fun and exciting setting too.

Easily there could had been three stories: Sonic & Tails (they are there to see if Eggman truly changed his ways), Amy & Cream (they're there for the attractions and happen to be the ones that find out about the enslaved aliens after one of Eggman's robots mistake Cheese for a Wisp and captures him) and Vector & Espio (hired by Rouge to find anything suspiscious, and the ones who find the mind control ray and sabotage it)

[DabigRG]

I love how my honestly kinda on the fringe nowadays statement encouraged such thought out and earnest comments. I truly do.

10 hours ago, RedFox99 said:

The issue I had was that she often br told by the others to stay back and not do anything.

To be fair, I always took it as what it essentially was--Cream being the youngest character meant the other characters were initially somewhat wary about getting her involved in dangerous situations. It was essentially a progressing subplot that had the Freedom Fighters gradually let up on her after seeing her handle one such situation and promise to let her get involved if things aren't too dire.

Granted, the monthly release meant this could(and did) get a little tedious for some and Worlds Unite kinda messed with that among other things, but you get the idea.

10 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

I don't think that was the problem in itself but more it didn't really go anywhere. Having Cream be actually treated as a six year old gave her a more unique dynamic, it's just that after a while no development came out of it, she just came in handy odd times at random and was otherwise sidelined, rather than having points she proved she was capable and the Freedom Fighters' attitudes changed.

 

Pretty much.

More in the sense that she's supposed to be the junior hero, with Sally's history as the leader of the Freedom Fighters making her a decent pic for a mentor.

10 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

 

Sonic X suffered the same problem, she was the tagalong kid who often stayed behind but often that felt more like just an excuse to keep her out of focus. During the Meterax arc they just quickly hand waved it with her mother bizarrely letting her go alone, and the one time anyone voiced concern about this they were portrayed in the wrong and very sharply told by Cream and the others to keep their big nose out of it. And yet Cream still barely did anything useful or had a different dynamic from it.

To be fair, I think the arc with her was more that she had slowly "matured" since she was kidnapped and separated from her mother, with the Sonic Battle adaptation being the moment where she officially got involved in a fight. Plus, I'm pretty sure that biz in the Metarex Saga was just a test Vector came up with at the time, with Vanilla being more than happy to have allowed Cream to go into space with the others. 

6 hours ago, Iko said:

As much as I would like Cream to appear more in the main series, I think she doesn't fit in any military organization, so it's ok that they left her out of the resistance. Though, it would have been interesting to explore the story of Sonic Forces from her point of view, her and Vanilla trying to survive to Eggman's roobots and eventually an attack of Infinite. Since Vanilla is unable to fight, it would have been an opportunity to give her some development, at first her mother tries to be protective with her, then Cream starts being more confident about her fighting skills and learns to be more independent, until at the end it's her who defends Vanilla instead, gaining her trust and the authorization to fight on her own for the good (not as a part of the resistance, but to defend some civilians who live close to her).

That's actually pretty good idea. Just maybe not one the game proper would've been able to tackle.

(Spoiler it.)

I also personally think she and Cheese could've been used to help tie Tails &Omega's little subplots in a bit more and help build up the reveal about most of the Eggy Six ala Sonic X.

But really, my thing with her not being in Forces was based more around the odd fact that she was the only major recurring character(plus Omega and Silver) not to be in the game at all despite the fact that she has a model fully rigged for what minimum they would've done with her.

9 hours ago, Korke said:

Cream was supposed to embody the face of civilians from Sonic universe, in a more relatable way getting closer to the main cast.

I fail to understand why was everyone demanding her to become one of the FF's in the post-reboot era. Even the japanese has understood that by not including her on the Sega Freedom Fighters Resistance.

Eh, not quite that clear cut? I mean, it's certainly there, but really, Cream(and Big, for that matter) acts as a contrast to the other brash, high-energy, and/or highly capable characters by being of rather mellow origins and having a quite normal life to return to on the occasions she gets involved with Sonic's fights against Eggman.

Really, that's probably more because Sonic, Tails, and Amy were already affiliated with them and as I said above, that opens up the opportunity for her to get some of the development she never really got in the games proper.

2 hours ago, Skull Leader said:

To be fair, pretty much a majority of the characters don't make sense to form an organized group since I believe that by doing so, they lose their individuality, including their personal motivations and goals.

In Forces, it would at least had felt credible if they had gone the Sonic Adventure way of telling each of their stories, from how Eggman's takeover affected them directly how the manage to not get captured and survive during Sonic's abscence, how they meet and how they come to work together, instead of misplacing the focus on the unnecessary Classic Sonic nor the dull and lifeless rookie, whom everyone praised and sucked up to in such a ridiculous manner.

I know that the term "Sonic's friends" is a generic way to reffer to any character that is not on the bad side, but not all of them are friends (at least not close) with each other and for them to actually come together, I think a transition might be needed to conciliate their goals, esoecially the clashing one's like Knuckles prioritizing the recovery of the ME or Rouge wanting the chance to steal some goodies, towards a common one.

Likewise, something that would help the story is if the characters were to be allowed to be themselves and add with what they are capable of doing, instead of giving the apparently more important/relevant roles based on popularity, like it happened with Knuckles being the commander, despite him being the least qualified of them all.

Yeah, honestly, that's one of the bigger shortcomings I see with Forces: it takes this really huge, practically game changing premise that involves almost all of the recurring cast and fails to truly build on nearly any of it because it's too simple and straightforward for the packed plate of stuff it's trying to do.

For example, while I was one of the few who felt Knuckles being the leader of the Resistance over Tails was somewhat forced and overly convenient, I later came to feel that that's actually something where they could've written the [back]story in such a way that makes that darkhorse move feel progressively organic. It's so weird that the events of the tie-in comic gave a piece of the puzzle that could've been tapped into for some bonus fridge brilliance, seemingly by complete happenstance.

1 hour ago, Iko said:

 

Instead, the theme park is completely empty in the actual game (Wii), it feels so odd.

To be fair, that was kinda the point. Sonic and Tails essentially snuck in the day before the official opening.

Honestly, I have no idea why almost half of the characters were there in the DS version.

1 hour ago, Skull Leader said:

I think that Sonic Color's plot about Eggman building a park for everyone to enjoy as part of him "turning on a new leaf" (but secretely planning a scheme) was a much, much better opportunity to have a story/game with multiple characters than Forces was... and with a more fun and exciting setting too.

I'm sorta inclined to very much agree. Forces just bit off waaaaaaay more than it could possibly chew.

1 hour ago, Skull Leader said:

Vector & Espio (hired through Rouge to find anything suspiscious, and the ones who find the mind control ray and sabotage it)

Fixed.

Also, what about Charmy?

[BaronGrackle]

It is offensive that we've seen TWO instances of mind-controlling Tails (Colors and Lost World) without a boss battle against him.

[Skull Leader]

25 minutes ago, BaronGrackle said:

It is offensive that we've seen TWO instances of mind-controlling Tails (Colors and Lost World) without a boss battle against him.

If it's of any consolation, there was this from Sonic Pinball Part for the GBA:

Would be neat if in a new game, you were to unlock other characters after beating them in a boss fight, with the last two (and also the hardest) being Tails and Amy.

[E-122-Psi]

Didn't Sonic Rivals 2 do that plot as well?

[DabigRG]

13 minutes ago, Skull Leader said:

If it's of any consolation, there was this from Sonic Pinball Part for the GBA:

Would be neat if in a new game, you were to unlock other characters after beating them in a boss fight, with the last two (and also the hardest) being Tails and Amy.

That almost looks like a fanedit. 

Also, "Something's wrong with him...?" He just straight up told you to shut up and fight, Hedgehog!

12 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

Didn't Sonic Rivals 2 do that plot as well?

Oh yeah, that weird ghost that possesses the partner(s) and Dr. Nega for the boss battle.

[Multikaris]

1 hour ago, E-122-Psi said:

Didn't Sonic Rivals 2 do that plot as well?

Even London Olympics did it! Runners was planned to do so too.

[RedFox99]

6 hours ago, DabigRG said:

To be fair, I always took it as what it essentially was--Cream being the youngest character meant the other characters were initially somewhat wary about getting her involved in dangerous situations. It was essentially a progressing subplot that had the Freedom Fighters gradually let up on her after seeing her handle one such situation and promise to let her get involved if things aren't too dire.

Granted, the monthly release meant this could(and did) get a little tedious for some and Worlds Unite kinda messed with that among other things, but you get the idea.

The thing I don't get is that the games are canon, so the other characters should probably know of Cream's feats; plus, she isn't too much younger than Tails. I understand that Ian had mandates to worry about, but I don't know if he handled the one with Cream not being able to fight perfectly.

[Skull Leader]

7 hours ago, DabigRG said:

That almost looks like a fanedit. 

That's because the game uses stock art with some minor edits to make characters like Tails and Amy look evil.

[DabigRG]

6 hours ago, RedFox99 said:

The thing I don't get is that the games are canon, so the other characters should probably know of Cream's feats; plus, she isn't too much younger than Tails. I understand that Ian had mandates to worry about, but I don't know if he handled the one with Cream not being able to fight perfectly.

Yeah, perhaps. That's the awkward thing when characters like her and to a lesser extent Charmy are supposedly not as tough or experienced as the other characters, yet they both muddle things in-game proper due to going up against Sonic, Shadow, Metal Madness, Ix, and Infinite--as Gamebreakers, no less!

Though at the bare minimum, you could probably argue that they weren't quite as involved ultimately and/or handwave that their chaperones helped them there. Though that really only holds up with Charmy, who's ironically the more combative and physical of the two. 

3 hours ago, Skull Leader said:

That's because the game uses stock art with some minor edits to make characters like Tails and Amy look evil.

Ah, of course.

[kergo]

Time to voice my impopular opinions:

1: The first Sonic Advance is a masterpiece to me. It's the perfect spiritual successor to Sonic 3 & Knuckles and its natural progression, in my opinion. The next two games, not so much.

2: I don't see Sonic Mania as a classic Sonic game. I see it as a classic-stylized, modern Sonic game. I think it's pretty much obvious, but the blunt way I'm wording it here may make you disagree. I don't believe there can be any classic games anymore, since 90's Sega no longer exists and Naka, Yasuhara etc. aren't there to design the games, and even if they were, I think them working within the Genesis' limitations was what made the games impressive and unique.

This doesn't mean I dislike Mania! I love it! I actually cried of joy with the Reveal and Preorder trailers! But I believe that substance imprint in Sonic 1 through Chaotix is long gone, and the new generations to whom 'the torch is passed' can replicate it, but Sonic Mania is its own thing, albeit extremely derivative of the classics. I believe this is great, distinctions are great and make new games unique.

Thing is, I don't want Mania to be seen as "the new Sonic 4" or any numbered sequel. (To clarify, I liked both 'Sonic 4' games but I don't believe that name was appropiate). I also don't want there to be a new classic-style game with a numbered name in the future, if Sega approves a new classic-style game, or maybe a classic-style game series, I want it to follow its own way, distinguishing itself from the classic canon, keeping the spirit, but coming up with new, unique stories. Maybe come up with new enemies, don't limit yourself to new badniks. The Eggette idea is amazing, and it fits incredibly with the spirit Mania is attemping to nail down.

3: I like the American classic Sonic design. I think there should be Sonic Mania artwork like that.

[Marco9966]

1 hour ago, kergo said:

I want it to follow its own way, distinguishing itself from the classic canon, keeping the spirit, but coming up with new, unique stories. Maybe come up with new enemies, don't limit yourself to new badniks. The Eggette idea is amazing, and it fits incredibly with the spirit Mania is attemping to nail down.

Yeah, I agree, don't limit the classic stories, explore new ideas, have new characters (but for our sanity don't connect it to modern games like the awful Sonic Forces! It'll only make the game look like an advertisement for the modern game it's connected to).

[RedFox99]

I don't like the Fleetway comics' artstyle. It just looks too weird for me.

[Iko]

1- Something that often gets overlooked but helped to build Sonic's identity in the classic games, were the several references to extreme sports; I'm not refering to just the snowboard section in Ice Cap: there was the hang glider section in Sonic 2 8-bit, and that gimmick in Sandopolis act 1 where you climb down those towers by using that rope thing... probably there is more but I can't remember now. They were a few moments, though they were so influent that Sonic games nowadays are still bringing back the snowboard sections whenever they can. This thing was lost in the years, with some exceptions, though, I think it would be nice to bring it back as I think it helps enforcing the identity and uniqueness of Sonic's gameplay.

In fact, the only 2 (not classic) Sonic games that brought this back were Sonic Adventure 2 (the "snowboard" section is more a reference to skateboards, then there is grinding, and Shadow's hover skates) and Sonic Lost World with the parkour, though the parkour didn't feel like an extreme sport reference in that game, it was more a gameplay gimmick and there was no emphasis on the exciting and cool aspects of parkour. More games brought back the snowboard sections, but the intent was different, it was a nostalgia thing to reference Ice Cap from Sonic 3 more than the extreme sport. I think that they should occasionally think some new gimmicks based on unexpected sports rather than bringing back the snowboard all the times for nostalgia's sake.

2- I like Sonic Mania Adventures but I "cringe" every thime they show a blatant reference to some American cartoon cliche, such as Eggman with steam coming out from his hears, or those spongebob-like backgrounds from the second episode when they find the emerald. I'm fine with everything else, but please Sonic is not Cuphead, and Cuphead got old already kinda. I mean, the main sources they are taking inspiration from (Sonic OVA and Sonic CD videos) are made by Japanese studios (Toei and Pierrot). I'm not saying they should copy the anime style, just tone down the cliche a bit, cliche IMO are bad regardless of if they are Japanese or American (in fact I would have prefered a more original idea than the Dragon Radar from Dragonball as the main plot element).

Stuff like Sonic being lifted by the birds are fine, they are original, clever, and I'd rather see more of those.

[StaticMania]

Humor cliches aren't bad and are based around execution like most things...