Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[Tara]

Still better than "Baldy Mcnosehair" and "dude, dude, dude!" Sonic has become a lame surfer idiot who hangs out at the beach everyday.

Hence Disney's boys marketing department. 

How does the term "Baldy McNosehair" even remotely correlate to "lame, surfer idiot?"  Not to mention, how has he not been the surfer archetype considering that's what he was designed to be since 1991.  (Also, "lame surfer idiot that hangs out at the beach everyday?"  What kind of description does that entail anyway?  "You're some kind of lackluster person who enjoys surfing and does so on a regular basis at the location where such a sport takes place!")

 

Also, I'd argue his use of the word "dude" has been cut tremendously since Colors (not that he ever used it that much, although he did occasionally, beforehand) and he now talks like... I don't know... a person?  A little more sophisticated but not so much that he distorts his character.

[lounge]

I'm surprised people actually liked Lost Worlds dialogue. Specifically sonic and tails. They just annoy me so much now. It's just as annoying as Colors stupid saturday morning bullshit. I really miss the less exaggerated personalities from SA2. More down to earth. Just look at Knuckles in Lost World, he's ridiculous now.

 

But I can't help but wonder if it's the new voices for sonic and tails that make it worse. A line like Baldy McNosehair would probably sound less annoying if it was Ryan Drummond or even Jason Griffith. It would come across completely different. I think that might be what's making a big difference.

But there's still the writing. People going "oh it's nice that it's lighthearted." And then using the pathetic excuse that previous games had cringeworthy dialogue as if that gives Lost World a pass. There's absolutely nothing interesting about it. Nothing compelling. The jokes fell flat, not once did I even chuckle. Sonic doesn't act the least bit cool. He's lame, isn't funny, and he has become obnoxiously rude.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

cocky Sonic is the best Sonic. He makes me laugh when he taunts the Dr

[Splash the Otter]

I think the problem lies in how flat the characters are these days. Tails went from just being good at engineering to being a full-on genius, and when's the last time Sonic took anything seriously? The only character who's really been developed in terms of personality is Dr. Eggman, and I honestly don't like him enough to appreciate it.

 

Just look at Knuckles in Lost World, he's ridiculous now.

I dunno, the bit with the small animals was kind of cute in my opinion. Or are you talking about a cutscene later in the game? I haven't gotten too far into the game (I'm stuck in Tropical Coast), so it might be something I haven't seen yet...

[Xenos]

I absolutely love the direction Sonic and Tails have taken, they went from boring one-note characters to characters that actually emote and show an array of different feelings and reactions to the events around them. Tails no longer has twinkling eyes every time Sonic breathes, and has finally grown into a real partner, who isn't afraid of knocking Sonic down a peg and bringing him back into reality. Sonic actually has his overconfidence be an actual flaw instead of just being a said to be a flaw but not actually shown to be a flaw which ruins the whole point of being a...flaw.

 

He tries to fuck around with the Deadly Six early in the game and when they actually prove what they're capable of doing he gets tired of their bullshit very quickly and is prepared to get rid of them without looking back. He showed cockiness, frustration, and maybe even a little fear and concern and sadness in Lost World, much more than what I can say in previous games.

 

So as far as I'm concerned, these new renditions of the character make the previous ones look flat as all hell and paper-thin.

[Soniman]

and when's the last time Sonic took anything seriously?

 

Okay really? He spends the fourth of SLW in serious mode when Tails was kidnapped, he doesn't crack jokes at either Zor's or Zavok's expense, all he does is demand where they put his friend. And this continues throughout the game until Tails is finally safe again. I know people deride Warren!Sonic for being some idoitc jokester, be come on, give credit where's its due.

 

 

But there's still the writing. People going "oh it's nice that it's lighthearted." And then using the pathetic excuse that previous games had cringeworthy dialogue as if that gives Lost World a pass.

Because most of the serious games tired to have meaningful dialogue and failed, games like Colors and SLW at least know what they are and have a clear idea of what they're trying to be, and they just go nuts within that context.

 

 

There's absolutely nothing interesting about it. Nothing compelling. The jokes fell flat, not once did I even chuckle. Sonic doesn't act the least bit cool. He's lame, isn't funny, and he has become obnoxiously rude.

 

Sonic trying to act cool is the very reason why he hasn't been seen as cool for over a decade. Treating Sonic as a laid-back goofball is a lot more relatable and generally seen as easier to enjoy character-wise (though obviously that's not the case with some people).

 

 

 

Just look at Knuckles in Lost World, he's ridiculous now.

 

If you mean how he's treated in context to the story then sure, but personality? He pretty much acts like the Knuckles I wanted in terms of interacting with Sonic at least, a big ol showboat that constantly talks shit to Sonic about how he can do everything better then him, id love to see more of that.

[Celestia]

If you mean how he's treated in context to the story then sure, but personality? He pretty much acts like the Knuckles I wanted in terms of interacting with Sonic at least, a big ol showboat that constantly talks shit to Sonic about how he can do everything better then him, id love to see more of that.

Thisssss. It's how I felt about him in Generations, too. His personality, at least what we've seen of it from this writers, reminds me of the Adventure/Heroes days.

 

The problem with Knuckles at the moment is that Sonic doesn't even respond to his teasing. It's like a one-sided rivalry or something. It's especially weird when you consider how much Sonic poked fun at Knuckles back in the Adventure era. You'd think he'd leap at the chance to exchange banter with his first rival.

 

I think the problem lies in how flat the characters are these days. Tails went from just being good at engineering to being a full-on genius,

Sonic Adventure 2 sort-of started this, though. I mean, he literally created a Fake Chaos Emerald that actually worked as a decent replacement (for Chaos Control, at least). And IIRC he's been stated since that time in the series to be, at the very least, a potential rival for Eggman's smarts. 

[Tara]

Sonic Adventure 2 sort-of started this, though. I mean, he literally created a Fake Chaos Emerald that actually worked as a decent replacement (for Chaos Control, at least). And IIRC he's been stated since that time in the series to be, at the very least, a potential rival for Eggman's smarts. 

Not to mention, all the little gizmos and gadgets in Tails Adventure, if we're going to consider that canon, kind of solidified his character as intelligent in fields aside from simple engineering.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

So as far as I'm concerned, these new renditions of the character make the previous ones look flat as all hell and paper-thin.

Don't really think that says much when their previous ones past SA2 were flat and paper-thin even before these new ones came in. And mind you, that was when the writing started to tank anyway.

[E-122-Psi]

Concerning Tails I admit I kinda found him flat for most of the 3D era outside SA1 (and even in that he was mostly exposition until the final level). I think the games version tends to downplay the precocious part of his personality, he's a genius but he is still EIGHT. Generally the only time his childishness reappears is when he's doing generic 'Yay, go Sonic' chants so comes off incredibly superficial. Otherwise he's the super genius and somewhat dull acting Straight Man of the group. I already hate it enough when writers place 'Character Development' on the same lines as diluting the character into a boring old sage, but it just seems completely unrealistic in this case.

 

I preferred him in Lost Worlds because they did at least emphasize some sort of flawed nature to him. He shown a childlike irrationality and something of a bratty temper, as well as displaying his fixation to his machinery to having an almost ADD type lack of focus, and, similar to Sonic's, the game established these in a way that made them flaws and hindrances to the character. Both of these compliment Sonic's personality well, who is more boisterous and less lucid, but also more easy going and focused on his tasks (even if, as the game tragically demonstrated, in an occasionally one track and tactless sense). Also while his treatment of Sonic was more casual, he actually seemed a lot more enthusiastic around him than many previous titles, joining in on his jokes with glee and generally not sounding perpetually deadpan and like a generic Mr Exposition every time he talks.

 

There's still some slight emptyness to him, but I think Lost Worlds did a lot for the two characters. The only thing I'm worried about is they might end up going the same route as Sonic and Sally and doing the 'Sonic does something reckless and needs his better half to bail him out' formula EVERY story.

[Kuzu]

I'm kind of on the fence on how I feel about the writing nowadays; On one hand, the dialogue is infinitely better, you guys can call it cringeworthy and the like, but this is nothing new to the series. We've had lines like "Big Drip" "Kick their imperial butts" and a whole bunch of other crappy lines, so the complaint that its "cringeworthy" is bullshit, especially when people go on to praise the Adventure games for having superior dialogue, when no, that's not the case. They both have had corny dialogue, so its not something exclusive to one or the other. 

 

 

On the flipside, I feel the plots are infinitely weaker and nowhere near as exciting. I think that's what people feel when they say Sonic isn't "cool" anymore, because the plots aren't exciting to make him look as such. The series is less about adventuring and finding new places to discover and more about how "wacky" the characters can act in these sort of Looney Tunes esc scenarios, which for if you grew up with the series at a certain point, is jarring as hell. Before Colors even was a thing, can anyone tell me that they always pictured the series to be a Looney Tunes type affair? You can't fault people for being on board with that.

 

 

As for everything else...well you already know how I feel about the characters, so I don't need to beat that dead horse. 

[Vertekins]

Seriously? The only thing I'm worried about concerning Sonic's characterization in the future is him being a supreme dumbass who keeps acting impulsively without regard to the previous instances where it's cost him dearly and he basically becomes Knuckles #2, dominated somewhat by one of his most negative aspects.

 

I mean Colours blew Sonic's propensity for cheesy talk out of all proportion beyond anything reasonable so I wouldn't exactly be surprised if Sonic continues being basically an idiot who always leaps before he looks.

[Splash the Otter]

Okay really? He spends the fourth of SLW in serious mode when Tails was kidnapped, he doesn't crack jokes at either Zor's or Zavok's expense, all he does is demand where they put his friend. And this continues throughout the game until Tails is finally safe again. I know people deride Warren!Sonic for being some idoitc jokester, be come on, give credit where's its due.

I already said I hadn't gotten that far into the game, so how was I supposed to know this?

 

Sonic Adventure 2 sort-of started this, though. I mean, he literally created a Fake Chaos Emerald that actually worked as a decent replacement (for Chaos Control, at least). And IIRC he's been stated since that time in the series to be, at the very least, a potential rival for Eggman's smarts. 

SA2 was around the point that Tails' personality started to decline if you ask me.

 

Not to mention, all the little gizmos and gadgets in Tails Adventure, if we're going to consider that canon, kind of solidified his character as intelligent in fields aside from simple engineering.

No, everything Tails did in that game fell under engineering. And even then, designing a collapsible submarine is not on the same level as using a toothpick to sabotage a robotizer, building an interdimensional motorboat, or creating synthetic Chaos Emeralds.

[DarkLight]

FYI, I'd hardly consider what was going to happen to Tails as 'robotization' in LW.

[Kuzu]

Seriously? The only thing I'm worried about concerning Sonic's characterization in the future is him being a supreme dumbass who keeps acting impulsively without regard to the previous instances where it's cost him dearly and he basically becomes Knuckles #2, dominated somewhat by one of his most negative aspects.

 

I mean Colours blew Sonic's propensity for cheesy talk out of all proportion beyond anything reasonable so I wouldn't exactly be surprised if Sonic continues being basically an idiot who always leaps before he looks.

 

This is my greatest fear. You never got the feeling that Sonic never learned anything in Lost World, because after the scene when he cocks everything up, he's ready to do it again. He has to be told by Tails and Eggman its a bad idea to destroy the latter's machine, despite the fact that he claimed he should have listened to Tails in the first place. Then he feels bad about causing the entire mess....then does it again anyway in Silent Forest. In the end, its Tails who resolves everything with Sonic just kinda being treated like shit for his flaws.

[Diogenes]

How is Sonic treated like shit? He makes two mistakes: attacking Eggman and punting the conch, and being fooled by the fake capsule. There are consequences for those mistakes, yes, but that should be natural, it's not treating him like shit. And while Tails may be the one who restores the planet, Sonic is still the one who beat the Six and Eggman, allowing Tails to do his job. It's not as if he just sits around with his thumb up his ass.

 

Seriously, one game where Sonic is allowed to make mistakes with actual consequences and we panic over him being an idiot forever?

[Kuzu]

How is Sonic treated like shit? He makes two mistakes: attacking Eggman and punting the conch, and being fooled by the fake capsule. There are consequences for those mistakes, yes, but that should be natural, it's not treating him like shit. And while Tails may be the one who restores the planet, Sonic is still the one who beat the Six and Eggman, allowing Tails to do his job. It's not as if he just sits around with his thumb up his ass.

 

Seriously, one game where Sonic is allowed to make mistakes with actual consequences and we panic over him being an idiot forever?

 

Look at how all of those events are executed tho. I already said punting the conch was understandable, its what sets the plot in motion. But when Eggman tells Sonic & Tails about his machine, Sonic is ready to do it again despite his impulsiveness being the cause of their problems in the first place and has to be told that its a bad idea. So then he feels bad about it and tries to fix it, but gets chewed out by Tails for "betraying his trust" when it was already established that working with Eggman was necessary, and Tails is ultimately in the right because Sonic is the one who apologizes and Tails` attitude is never called out on. Sonic once again impulsively dives into a situation in Silent Forest, when he already established that he felt bad about causing the mess in the first place and has to be bailed out by Tails again.

 

 

Nobody is complaining about Sonic having flaws, but rather how they are being executed. Rather than being used to make him grow and learn, they're used to make him look rather incompetent without ever learning a damn thing.

[Vertekins]

Yakuzu put into words exactly what I feel.

 

Sonic's characterization is a step in the right direction in SLW and was a massive improvement on Colours and Gens but the narrative still had issues in regards to him. And I can't help but be concerned about whether or not he's going to continue being unbelievably impulsive in future games.

[Kuzu]

Personality wise, he's the best he's been in years. How they are using that personality is what's bugging me. In Colors & Generations, nothing ever challenges him or gets under his skin and he's basically treated like he's invincible. LW has the opposite problem, when Sonic is basically everyone's punching bag and everything that goes wrong is all of his fault.

 

In fact, this is probably my main problem with the current writing; everything looks good on paper, but the executions leave a lot to be desired. 

[Diogenes]

Look at how all of those events are executed tho. I already said punting the conch was understandable, its what sets the plot in motion. But when Eggman tells Sonic & Tails about his machine, Sonic is ready to do it again despite his impulsiveness being the cause of their problems in the first place and has to be told that its a bad idea.

Yeah but, he doesn't actually make a mistake here. He intends to smash it, which is reasonable enough because that's how he solves most of his problems, but when he's told it's no good...he doesn't go and smash it.

So then he feels bad about it and tries to fix it, but gets chewed out by Tails for "betraying his trust" when it was already established that working with Eggman was necessary, and Tails is ultimately in the right because Sonic is the one who apologizes and Tails` attitude is never called out on.

It wasn't "established" that Eggman was necessary. Eggman asserted it, and Sonic went along with it, because he was worried that following his gut instinct of "fuck Eggman" would mess things up even worse. Yeah, this ends up upsetting Tails, it's a bit of a rock and hard place situation for Sonic, but that's a far cry from shitting on him.

Sonic once again impulsively dives into a situation in Silent Forest, when he already established that he felt bad about causing the mess in the first place and has to be bailed out by Tails again.

What lesson do you expect Sonic to learn, exactly? Never do anything unless Tails approves it beforehand? He figured it was just a normal capsule. Even Tails only realized it was a trap at the last second.

Nobody is complaining about Sonic having flaws, but rather how they are being executed. Rather than being used to make him grow and learn, they're used to make him look rather incompetent without ever learning a damn thing.

He learned to trust Tails more! Honestly if you think SLoW was nothing but shitting on him, I have no idea what you could possibly want out of an arc like that.

[Kuzu]

I'm not playing "Quote Dissection" with you, because I have better things to do. 

 

 

Sonic even entertaining the idea of smashing the machine is completely contrary to the actions in the scene prior when he punts the conch. He's already seen firsthand what his impulsiveness has done, why would he want to do it again? Did he just forget what happened before? He shouldn't have had to be told in the first place because its something he should have figured out based on experience, that's called learning. Sonic "going along with it" essentially establishes that Eggman was needed to fix the machine, and I understand this upset Tails a great deal. The moral ambiguity of the the argument scene however is lost, because in the end, Sonic is in the wrong because he  is one who apologizes to Tails and the fact that Sonic wanted to fix his previous mistake is completely ignored. The way the game was setup, it seemed like Sonic was going to learn not to rush into every situation and actually learn to stop and think; if its already been established that his impulsiveness got him in a heated situation, why would he repeatedly be shown to continue with it.  

 

And learning to trust to trust Tails isn't what I'm arguing, I said his personality is written in a way where Sonic is basically wrong for everything he does.

[Diogenes]

Sonic even entertaining the idea of smashing the machine is completely contrary to the actions in the scene prior when he punts the conch. He's already seen firsthand what his impulsiveness has done, why would he want to do it again? Did he just forget what happened before?

Why is it impulsive to say he's going to smash a thing when they're still at least hours away from even getting near it? Why is he supposed to assume that smashing this machine would cause a cataclysmic explosion when he's done just fine smashing thousands of machines in the past? What, exactly, do you expect Sonic to do differently?

Sonic "going along with it" essentially establishes that Eggman was needed to fix the machine, and I understand this upset Tails a great deal. The moral ambiguity of the the argument scene however is lost, because in the end, Sonic is in the wrong because he  is one who apologizes to Tails and the fact that Sonic wanted to fix his previous mistake is completely ignored.

The moral ambiguity stands just fine for anyone willing to consider it. The fact that Sonic eventually finds himself to be in the wrong doesn't nullify alternative interpretations.

The way the game was setup, it seemed like Sonic was going to learn not to rush into every situation and actually learn to stop and think; if its already been established that his impulsiveness got him in a heated situation, why would he do it again.

Because you don't solve your problems just by snapping your fingers after the first time you recognize them, and you also don't completely abandon long standing aspects of a character's personality just because you've acknowledged that they are not 100% beneficial.

And learning to trust to trust Tails isn't what I'm arguing, I said his personality is written in a way where Sonic is basically wrong for everything he does.

Is he wrong for fighting the Zeti? Is he wrong for fighting Eggman?

[Kuzu]

I already established my point, if you disgaree, fine, that's your problem. I'm not doing this back and forth thing with you every time we disagree on something.

[Diogenes]

Yeah, this whole "discussion" thing, we should just do away with it.

[Splash the Otter]

How is Sonic treated like shit? He makes two mistakes: attacking Eggman and punting the conch, and being fooled by the fake capsule. There are consequences for those mistakes, yes, but that should be natural, it's not treating him like shit. And while Tails may be the one who restores the planet, Sonic is still the one who beat the Six and Eggman, allowing Tails to do his job. It's not as if he just sits around with his thumb up his ass.

 

Seriously, one game where Sonic is allowed to make mistakes with actual consequences and we panic over him being an idiot forever?

Even if his actions have clear ramifications, there's nothing to suggest that Sonic ever learns from his mistakes. What do you bet he'll be just as impulsive (if not even more so) in the next game?