Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[Kuzu]

Except you're not discussing, you're taking my words at face value without actually addressing the argument itself and accusing me of things I never said. I have no interest in arguing further if that's what its going to come down to.

[Diogenes]

Even if his actions have clear ramifications, there's nothing to suggest that Sonic ever learns from his mistakes. What do you bet he'll be just as impulsive (if not even more so) in the next game?

Considering how schizophrenic this series has been, I'm no longer willing to make any bets about anything about it. But I'm still not seeing what people expect him to do to show he's learned that they didn't already do.

Except you're not discussing, you're taking my words at face value

...am I not supposed to?!

without actually addressing the argument itself and accusing me of things I never said. I have no interest in arguing further if that's what its going to come down to.

Please, tell me, what am I missing then? I am legitimately confused here!

[MegasonicZX]

I think it should really count against sonics character for the capsule scene, no one really expected that trap to be a fake and unlike the conch the capsule was something that sonic had seen before (in fact if the game canon is relative to the story itself he has seen a bunch of them up til this point) so you can't really blame sonic for wanting the free the non existant animals inside. Sure he was too quick to act on it but there wasn't any reason up to that point for him not to be.

[Your Vest Friend]

Actually, I think my issue with the scene was the opposite; How would Tails tell if it was a trap if it's something that hadn't been an issue for the last however many acts there had been?

[Amomynous]

 

 

Sonic even entertaining the idea of smashing the machine is completely contrary to the actions in the scene prior when he punts the conch. He's already seen firsthand what his impulsiveness has done, why would he want to do it again? Did he just forget what happened before? He shouldn't have had to be told in the first place because its something he should have figured out based on experience, that's called learning.

I'm with Diogenes here, Sonic knocking Eggman's conch was the only one of those that could be seen pre-emptively as mistake.

. Habits also die hard. I mean... he's supposed to just lose a personality trait on the spot?

Sonic "going along with it" essentially establishes that Eggman was needed to fix the machine, and I understand this upset Tails a great deal. The moral ambiguity of the the argument scene however is lost, because in the end, Sonic is in the wrong because he  is one who apologizes to Tails and the fact that Sonic wanted to fix his previous mistake is completely ignored.

 

Nto sure what you mean exactly. Though I do find it a bit daft that Tails could deal with Eggman's machine all along, it's only sense Eggman would know his own technology better than anyone else.

[E-122-Psi]

I think Lost World worked okay as a display of Sonic's flaws and how big a wake up call was needed for him to realize them (as mentioned anyway, the capsule was an easy mistake). He maybe should have shown a better display of maturing at the end of it, but at the end of the day, a person doesn't just stop having flaws from one experience (as much as many other attempts at character development would imply) and Sonic wouldn't be Sonic if he stopped being cocky.

 

I'm fine with Sonic having flawed moments so long as it is within his fair turn like everyone else and he still gets plenty of redeeming moments to balance it, same with other characters' shtick like Knuckles' gullibility or Amy naively walking into peril. So long as they don't end up with an Aesop Amnesia reliant formula like Satam, where every second story is about Sonic being a reckless idiot and his far more level headed friends always having to bail him out.

[Kuzu]

I'm with Diogenes here, Sonic knocking Eggman's conch was the only one of those that could be seen pre-emptively as mistake.

. Habits also die hard. I mean... he's supposed to just lose a personality trait on the spot?

I don't see how got to that conclusion..

 

I never said this, why do people keep assuming this is what I'm saying?

 

If being impulsive is what got Sonic in a situation in the first place, then the next logical step is for him to stop and think about his actions from that point is it not? But his first thought when being presented with a problem? "Smash it", with no consideration for the consequences until pointed out. Stop assuming I want Sonic to a lose a key personality trait because that's not what I am saying, but for him to acknowledge this personality flaw and consider other options before jumping into another situation. Ya know how characters grow? They look back on their mistakes, and learn from the experience. That's how character development works. 

 

For the record, I don't want Sonic to lose his cockiness. But if you're going to establish it a key personality flaw, then you should also show him learning from this flaw to become a better character. 

[Diogenes]

Stop assuming I want Sonic to a lose a key personality trait because that's not what I am saying, but for him to acknowledge this personality flaw and consider other options before jumping into another situation.

You're not saying you don't want him to be impulsive, but, you expected him to not be impulsive. He can't keep the personality trait but still completely solve the problem with it immediately. It's a deep-set personality trait; it shouldn't be a surprise that he can't just switch it off.

And again, he wasn't even being impulsive; they had a discussion when they were like 3 whole zones away from the machine, and when it was pointed out that smashing it wasn't an option, he did try something else (even going so far as to trust Eggman, in spite of his obvious disgust with doing so). He didn't just rush in and bop it without thinking like he did with the conch.

[Amomynous]

I never said this, why do people keep assuming this is what I'm saying?

 

If being impulsive is what got Sonic in a situation in the first place, then the next logical step is for him to stop and think about his actions from that point is it not? But his first thought when being presented with a problem? "Smash it", with no consideration for the consequences until pointed out. Stop assuming I want Sonic to a lose a key personality trait because that's not what I am saying, but for him to acknowledge this personality flaw and consider other options before jumping into another situation. Ya know how characters grow? They look back on their mistakes, and learn from the experience. That's how character development works. 

 

For the record, I don't want Sonic to lose his cockiness. But if you're going to establish it a key personality flaw, then you should also show him learning from this flaw to become a better character. 

 

Ah, I'm sorry about that.

I just think that you...don't think about it much really, you do rely on others to call you out because you wont catch yourself unless you're constantly on edge.

Or maybe I'm just particularly bad at life, there's that I guess.

 

EDIT:Nepenthe, I got Ninjad by Diogenes,added a quote for clarification.

[Nepenthe]

Ah, I'm sorry about that.

I just think that you...don't think about it much really, you do rely on others to call you out because you wont catch yourself unless you're constantly on edge.

Or maybe I'm just dumb, there's that I guess.

I think you're in the wrong topic, mate. xP

[Kuzu]

You're not saying you don't want him to be impulsive, but, you expected him to not be impulsive. He can't keep the personality trait but still completely solve the problem with it immediately. It's a deep-set personality trait; it shouldn't be a surprise that he can't just switch it off.

 

For the record, I don't want Sonic to lose his cockiness. But if you're going to establish it a key personality flaw, then you should also show him learning from this flaw to become a better character.

 

 

 

As for the second point, the very fact that the first thing he thinks about is "smashing it" is impulsive in itself, not the action. 

[Jet Prower]

But being impulsive and such is what Sonic has always been about. Sonic is always acting before he thinks and there are many times where he has caused his own trouble due to acting before he thinks. It is nothing new for him. A deep down personality trait is very hard to break unless someone is there to constantly remind you of it or if you take some sort of class or get some sort of help to try and work on improving that trait.

 

Sonic just has this like of jumping in and trying to nip things in the bud when often times, the bad guys now expect Sonic to take the direct approach and set traps accordingly. Sonic is so impatient that he doesn't want to sit and plan with Tails what needs to be done and what the best route is. He isn't incapable of doing this as the shows and such have shown he can do it, it is just he gets bored with is so easily. He is a man that thinks on his feet and sitting and planning and sticking to a set way of things just often isn't his way, this you get him acting before he thinks about if what he is about to do is the best thing to be doing at that moment. Sonic does take things more serious when he realizes he has messed up and he wants to fix things, showing he is committed to doing the right thing, he just doesn't always know what the right thing is, other than taking the direct approach.

 

Tails being the complete opposite will likely over-analyze things to where he can't think on his feet as much, but he has prepared for many different circumstances that he was able to think about and react accordingly. Tails is also starting to get a bit of an attitude these days instead of just being the blind follower to Sonic. He is now making sure he is heard and that Sonic actually listens to him instead of ignoring him all the time. I've seen this progression over time where Tails just follows after Sonic when he knows it won't be a good idea to slowly starting to get more and more snippy with Sonic as Sonic's rashness starts causing problems for them both.

 

These are just some of the observations I've noticed over time.

[Diogenes]

For the record, I don't want Sonic to lose his cockiness. But if you're going to establish it a key personality flaw, then you should also show him learning from this flaw to become a better character.

Well, I don't think you can both have him be cocky, but also overcome his cocky impulsiveness. I also don't think acknowledging a flaw means that they then need to scrub it from the character. Acknowledging it allows it to be a thing he struggles with; sometimes he overcomes it, and sometimes he doesn't.

As for the second point, the very fact that the first thing he thinks about is "smashing it" is impulsive in itself, not the action.

What else is he supposed to consider as plan A? Smashing bad machines is what he does, it's worked for him 999 times out of 1000, and he has no particular reason to think it wouldn't work with this machine until told otherwise.

[Kuzu]

Well, I don't think you can both have him be cocky, but also overcome his cocky impulsiveness. I also don't think acknowledging a flaw means that they then need to scrub it from the character. Acknowledging it allows it to be a thing he struggles with; sometimes he overcomes it, and sometimes he doesn't.

 

 

What else is he supposed to consider as plan A? Smashing bad machines is what he does, it's worked for him 999 times out of 1000, and he has no particular reason to think it wouldn't work with this machine until told otherwise.

 

I just got through saying that I don't want them to scrub it from his character, the latter is more along the lines of what I was referring to. He does have to struggle with it; when he doesn't overcome it, he falters and when he does, he perseveres. The former happens in Lost World, but the latter never really occurs which is was my conclusion from the beginning. Its not hard to have an arrogant character remain arrogant even after overcoming their hubris, it just requires it coming in smaller doses, which isn't the same as getting rid of it.

 

I'm not saying what he should have done in the situation, but so much what he shouldn't. If your modus operandi is causing you problems, then its probably not a good idea to continue with it. That should be obvious.

[E-122-Psi]

 

Tails being the complete opposite will likely over-analyze things to where he can't think on his feet as much, but he has prepared for many different circumstances that he was able to think about and react accordingly. Tails is also starting to get a bit of an attitude these days instead of just being the blind follower to Sonic. He is now making sure he is heard and that Sonic actually listens to him instead of ignoring him all the time. I've seen this progression over time where Tails just follows after Sonic when he knows it won't be a good idea to slowly starting to get more and more snippy with Sonic as Sonic's rashness starts causing problems for them both.

I do like that the game showed that, while Sonic screwed up, Tails' method of doing things could have equally bad results, as his ADD while having his own Franken-Cubot turn against him had shown. This could arguably been a drive in why Sonic didn't quite take to an opposite approach, since he was shown just beforehand that taking things meticulously beforehand doesn't always work out either, even if the narrative could have put better emphasis on it. I like this two-way outlook, rather than other 'reckless Sonic' incarnations that go for the 'slow and steady is ALWAYS better' moral and almost have a The Complainer Is Always Wrong tint to them.

[Biggs]

In mah honest opinion...

 

Sonic the Hedgehog 2 is probably the worst designed out of all of the Classic Sonic games. I don't know why, but at times it feels somewhat... cheap, especially when it comes to enemy placement. It's not hard or anything to avoid places like this, especially after you've memorised them as much as a fanboy like myself would, but it's still an outright flaw upon a casual playthrough. I mean, sure, Metropolis Zone comes to mind immediately when you think of the word 'cheap' but throughout the game there's little places designed to fuck you over and require memorisation to avoid. Like in Emerald Hill Zone 2, when one spring directly launches you into a Coconuts badnik, or that dastardly pit in Mystic Cave Zone.

 

That and it just overall felt a bit... bland. Sonic CD and Sonic 3 & Knuckles had loads of cool and crazy stuff to do, whether it being little things like jumping on those spinny-black thingies (no idea what they're called, lol) in Palmtree Panic Zone or gaining a crap ton of momentum down a slide in Hydrocity Zone to then be launched upwards and have free control to where you want to land. Sonic 2 just felt a little bit underwhelming in that regard. You had some pretty wacky stages there, don't get me wrong - Chemical Plant Zone is the shit and Wing Fortress Zone is sublimely epic for a penultimate stage. But the other levels are almost certainly the most 'meh' levels in the classic quadrilogy.

 

Not that the game is inherently bad merely because of that, hell no. Sonic 2 is still a great game and it's the first Sonic game I played. But I feel that it's more bland than the other classic Sonic games and therefore the weakest.

[Dizcrybe]

I actually feel more or less the same way about CD.

 

It's just... in some stages, the level design can get too disjointed (for lack of a better word) for its own good. The only stages I'll forgive for this is Collision Chaos, because of the level trope, and Stardust Speedway, which is actually pretty fun. Wacky Workbench, Tidal Tempest, even Metallic Madness, I won't be so kind to. Tidal Tempest, thanks mainly to the water is far too slow even for this kind of game and it gets kinda tedious. Wacky Workbench has that stupid bouncy floors which does more to halt your progress than help it. Metallic Madness, like Tidal Tempest, has that problem of being way slower than necessary. Not to mention I hate that stupid pit in act 3. Luckily it's the only one in the game. It's not a very memorable stage, either. Besides the pit, tiny Sonic, that weird leg jumping thing, and some assorted hazards, I can't recall much of the stage.

 

...and I've gone on before about how I can't stand the special stages.

 

So with all that said, I would much rather play Sonic 2, 3&K, or even 1 than CD.

[MegasonicZX]

I actually feel more or less the same way about CD.

 

It's just... in some stages, the level design can get too disjointed (for lack of a better word) for its own good. The only stages I'll forgive for this is Collision Chaos, because of the level trope, and Stardust Speedway, which is actually pretty fun. Wacky Workbench, Tidal Tempest, even Metallic Madness, I won't be so kind to. Tidal Tempest, thanks mainly to the water is far too slow even for this kind of game and it gets kinda tedious. Wacky Workbench has that stupid bouncy floors which does more to halt your progress than help it. Metallic Madness, like Tidal Tempest, has that problem of being way slower than necessary. Not to mention I hate that stupid pit in act 3. Luckily it's the only one in the game. It's not a very memorable stage, either. Besides the pit, tiny Sonic, that weird leg jumping thing, and some assorted hazards, I can't recall much of the stage.

 

...and I've gone on before about how I can't stand the special stages.

 

So with all that said, I would much rather play Sonic 2, 3&K, or even 1 than CD.

Honestly after playing through them, metallic madness was the only stage that outright made me go slow, the rest I saw some oppurtunity to speed through (though there might be some way to do mm too but those stupid buzz saw enemies and spinny spikes didn't allow for it).

[Amomynous]

I haven't really seen this anywhere before, so I presume it's an uncommon opinion.

Nitpick of all time, but I've not been quite sure about Knuckle's colour scheme since his eyes are now purple.

 

In honesty the green sock/shoe cuffs bug me more, he has a hot colour palette but then there's a small patch of green, it's just that yellow helps neutralise it while purple brings it out more. I'd be reluctant to change what is Knuckles' natural colouring anyway, so no more green cuffs imo.

 

I tend to put a certain amount of distance between a characters' 'natural colours' from their worn ones,so I rarely come out with something like this.

[Daya]

Popular:

*SA1 Sonic is the best 3D Sonic gameplay wise, aside from the slow-ass lightdash and lack of rolling.

*S2006 could've worked if Sonic Team didn't just make a HD skin of SA1/2 with a Final Fantasy set on it, instead of, you know, fixing the Adventure gameplay.

 

Unpopular:

*The recent games have too much 2D. Give full 3D a chance!

*SA2 is the most overrated game in the whole series.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Daya

[Nepenthe]

I haven't really seen this anywhere before, so I presume it's an uncommon opinion.

Nitpick of all time, but I've not been quite sure about Knuckle's colour scheme since his eyes are now purple.

 

In honesty the green sock/shoe cuffs bug me more, he has a hot colour palette but then there's a small patch of green, it's just that yellow helps neutralise it while purple brings it out more. I'd be reluctant to change what is Knuckles' natural colouring anyway, so no more green cuffs imo.

 

I tend to put a certain amount of distance between a characters' 'natural colours' from their worn ones,so I rarely come out with something like this.

 

To be fair, a color scheme need not only about temperature, but can work on proportions of color and proper schemes. The green, like Knuckles eyes, is an accent within an overall scheme of red and white and thus doesn't serve to confuse or clash. Green is also the opposite of red- making a complement within the overall scheme- so it works well as a proper delineation between a red character wearing mostly red shoes. If I were given the opportunity of changing any one character's colors, I probably wouldn't even look at Knuckles.

[Gabz Girl]

Glad I'm not the only one who isn't keen on Sonic CD's level design. It's why I'm amazed at how people say it's the best 2D Sonic game! Wacky Workbench is probably the worst stage I've played yet, and the fact it's got hardly any speedy parts and most of the time your path is blocked by walls and you have to turn around and find another route. The only stage I really like is Stardust Speedway, because it's exactly what it says on the tin.

[Tara]

Yeah, I love Sonic CD, but it really is my least favorite of the classic era.  The level design ranged from bland to just annoying, with the latter usually stemming from every single obstacle serving little purpose but to send you flying backwards.  Also, this was thankfully fixed in the Taxman port, but the Spin Dash is incredibly broken and needlessly difficult to pull off at times.  I like the concept of time travel, but I'm not fond of the way it was implemented.  In a game about speed, it's far too easy to accidentally run into a sign post, and then with the physics, it makes it exceptionally difficult to keep from going the speed that causes you to travel time.  This was so frustrating in the Window '95 version of the game (the first version I played) where the game literally took about five minutes to load.  Also, I feel that the special stages give no leniency to experiment, which would be okay if that could only said about the later special stages.  But even the very first one can be very unforgiving.

 

So overall, Sonic CD is a great game.  I just feel it fails to measure with the games that came before it and incredible two games which would come after it.

[Wraith]

I pretty much agree with everyone on Sonic CD, which is a shame because the game has a lot of clever ideas with very hit or miss execution. 

 

 

It can't just be me that thinks Knuckles Chaotix is one of the worst controlling Sonic games ever. Being physically attatched to an AI that can and will get stuck on every piece of the environment and fling you around like crazy was a terrible idea.

[allicali]

I always loved Big the Cat. I never thought he was dumb or pointless, just really chilled out and a nice guy who did not deserve hate, despite his fishing levels in Sonic Adventure...

Shadow is too popular to me. I never liked him, he came off as generic, whiny, and practically a filler character to me to this day. And I've played SA2, Sonic Battle, sonic riders, Shadow the Hedgehog, Sonic Heroes, as well as games where he played minor roles (Sonic Unleashed, Sonic generations) so I have got my fair ahare of time to learn that I dislike him. Also his voice. no matter who voiced shadow, I felt they were overdramatic.