Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Unpopular opinion? Colours - Lost World's writing of Tails is not the 'revolution' for his character like it's pretty frequently claimed to be and Tails was anything but a "lifeless tag-along" in games that preceded it.

 

Tails being a "Lifeless tag-along" pre-Colours is pure unadulterated rubbish as far as I'm concerned.

 

Would a lifeless tag-along express discontent at things such as Sonic's snarky reactions to his blabbermouth in Sonic Adventure? Or garner the courage necessary to take on a positively murderously-pissed mad scientist who was obviously intent on blowing away the city he was in at the time and then making mincemeat out of him? Or garner the self-assurance necessary to step-out of Sonic's shadow and shoulder the responsibility of saving an entire city by himself?

 

Would he swear that he'd never let down his adoptive brother or give up after having seen what he thought was him getting remorselessly murdered right in front of him due to his own mistake? And then canonically win against Sonic's 'killer'?

 

Or what about expressing fright at Knuckles' commiseration about Shadow being a ghost in Heroes and then begging for him to stop going on about it?

 

I'm hardly scratching the surface with these.

 

Just like Colours and it's writing in no way stands-out regarding accomplishing things with Sonic's character that previous games happened to do therefore making it unexceptional (And whilst I'll give SLW credit for making Sonic more visibly fallible, it in no way succeeds at making Sonic sympathetic "for the first time" by "merit" of seeing him sad about his belief in his allies deaths when quite a few previous games did this as well and hugely effectively to boot), Tails' current writing isn't the truly tremendous improvement on previous portrayals it's touted to be either. They're good-great portrayals but they don't really succeed in bringing a copious amount of life to a character by 'merit' of characterizing him with more negative traits when we've already seen Tails have negative traits. Not precisely in the same way as SLW but traits that bring him to life nonetheless.

 

I'm not stating that Tails Colours+ writing is bad. I'm just stating my view that it doesn't particularly stand-out and that Tails had plenty of personality before it.

 

I blame bandwagons treating everything that wasn't Sonic 1, 2, 3, and CD as being 06 levels of bad retroactively/dismissing the merits of previous games because of 06/treating every game after 06 as being 06 2.0/3.0/9001 and selective memory for people not really noticing or caring about this kind of stuff. The stuff in question isn't perfect mind you, but it still did happen.

[Dr. Crusher]

I blame bandwagons treating everything that wasn't Sonic 1, 2, 3, and CD as being 06 levels of bad retroactively/dismissing the merits of previous games because of 06/treating every game after 06 as being 06 2.0/3.0/9001 and selective memory for people not really noticing or caring about this kind of stuff. The stuff in question isn't perfect mind you, but it still did happen.

 

I think that's a really big exaggeration...

 

Anyways, with the obvious exception or two, I figured that most people who go on about this character or that character's personality are thinking more about "the now". As in, recent times, as opposed to comparing it to games back in 1998 and such.

[MegasonicZX]

I think its mostly in response to how tails has never really acted all too much like a brother to sonic as stated in his descriptions before now, besides adventure (and maybe unleashed if chip didn't steal that role already) there really weren't any games prior to it where tails was really that, "interactive" for lack of a better term, im not saying he had no character but he really didn't have too much of it or at least didn't get much screen time.

[Vertekins]

I think its mostly in response to how tails has never really acted all too much like a brother to sonic as stated in his descriptions before now, besides adventure (and maybe unleashed if chip didn't steal that role already) there really weren't any games prior to it where tails was really that, "interactive" for lack of a better term, im not saying he had no character but he really didn't have too much of it or at least didn't get much screen time.

 

Chip did not steal Tails' role in Unleashed. Not in any way, shape or form. Chip would have only stolen Tails' role if Tails' role was as an ancient planet guardian whose responsibility was to fight his complete opposite (Who also happens to be a part of nature and the cycle of the planet and part of the thematic element that pervades the entire game) and who's journey was facilitated by memory loss.

 

Even despite that, Sonic's entitled to have friends other than Tails.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

I think that's a really big exaggeration...

 

Anyways, with the obvious exception or two, I figured that most people who go on about this character or that character's personality are thinking more about "the now". As in, recent times, as opposed to comparing it to games back in 1998 and such.

 

Bleh, I dunno. Maybe my worldview is so small that everything looks bigger and more ominous as a result.

[Komodin]

I blame bandwagons treating everything that wasn't Sonic 1, 2, 3, and CD as being 06 levels of bad retroactively/dismissing the merits of previous games because of 06/treating every game after 06 as being 06 2.0/3.0/9001 and selective memory for people not really noticing or caring about this kind of stuff. The stuff in question isn't perfect mind you, but it still did happen.

 

Why do we always have to assume the worst possible reason in people? I mean, come on now, can't they just like Tails' portrayal in Sonic Colors and Sonic Lost World and dislike how it was done in the past games?

 

The main reason why, for all of its faults, I love Tails' portrayal in those two games is because it made me feel more sympathetic and enthused with the fox boy than the game series ever did before. With the exception for the Sonic Adventure games (significantly more so with 1 than 2), I feel Tails's portrayals in the past games have been forgettable at best and crappy at worst. Yes, it could be said that it's not all that special compared to the Adventure games (I still disagree with this, by the way), but I still like it all the same and I don't see anything wrong with that.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

i like Tails and Lost World. He was not only upbeat but he was also snarky and he had fangs. Its nice to see Tails with other emotions other then happy and scared.

[Chaos Incarnate]

Popular Opinion: Kate Higgins is without a doubt, the best voice Tails the Fox has ever had.

 

Her voice was such a huge step up from Amy Palant's high pitched and over the top take on the character. You can't even tell it's a girl voicing him, she sounds so damn boyish it's incredibly hard to notice.Her delivery really seemed to gel with the character and feel genuine where I felt like she really got into the role and just WAS Tails. It's kind of hard for me to explain, but she seemed to capture all of his traits perfectly with the voice she used. Kate rolled all of his traits into one: snark, youth, intelligence, and being committed all into one. 

 

It's such a damn shame she's gone, as she was definitely my favorite actress to come out of the newest Sonic voice cast. Kate Higgins seemed to embrace the role and know what made him tick. I'm really sad that she's gone, but out of all the people she would get recasted with, Colleen V. was probably the best possible replacement (her Charmy voice is spot on) as she sounds very similar to Kate in a lot of aspects.

 

It's a bit of a shame so many are dismissing Kate Higgins' departure just because Colleen sounds so similar. It honestly isn't a big deal, and it won't bother me in the long run, but I don't think she's getting enough credit.

[Wraith]

Why do we always have to assume the worst possible reason in people? I mean, come on now, can't they just like Tails' portrayal in Sonic Colors and Sonic Lost World and dislike how it was done in the past games?

 

 

Adding onto this.

 

Lately the people I've met in the Sonic fanbase (Not really here but in other places. as much as people here are put off by sonic nowadays almost nobody's taken shots at me for saying I like Colors, and I appreciate that. ) has a habit of assuming everyone who likes things about the modern games just forgot the other games or didn't "get" them or something? Like, I dunno man maybe I just didn't like those games or what they did

 

Also, I'm not blinded by nostalgia because I like the Classic games the best. Why is this a thing even there are plenty of reasons to love those games uugh

[Dizcrybe]

Popular Opinion: Kate Higgins is without a doubt, the best voice Tails the Fox has ever had.

 

Her voice was such a huge step up from Amy Palant's high pitched and over the top take on the character. You can't even tell it's a girl voicing him, she sounds so damn boyish it's incredibly hard to notice.Her delivery really seemed to gel with the character and feel genuine where I felt like she really got into the role and just WAS Tails. It's kind of hard for me to explain, but she seemed to capture all of his traits perfectly with the voice she used. Kate rolled all of his traits into one: snark, youth, intelligence, and being committed all into one. 

 

It's such a damn shame she's gone, as she was definitely my favorite actress to come out of the newest Sonic voice cast. Kate Higgins seemed to embrace the role and know what made him tick. I'm really sad that she's gone, but out of all the people she would get recasted with, Colleen V. was probably the best possible replacement (her Charmy voice is spot on) as she sounds very similar to Kate in a lot of aspects.

 

It's a bit of a shame so many are dismissing Kate Higgins' departure just because Colleen sounds so similar. It honestly isn't a big deal, and it won't bother me in the long run, but I don't think she's getting enough credit.

 

I'd just like to throw in that this is very likely exclusive to Sonic Boom and we'll hear her again in the next main series game and I don't know why everyone seems to think otherwise.

[Chaos Incarnate]

I'd just like to throw in that this is very likely exclusive to Sonic Boom and we'll hear her again in the next main series game and I don't know why everyone seems to think otherwise.

Wasn't it officially confirmed that Colleen was replacing her in all Sonic-related material? Honestly, what's the point in bringing in a new actress if everyone else is returning? Doesn't really make much sense to me.

[Dizcrybe]

Wasn't it officially confirmed that Colleen was replacing her in all Sonic-related material?

 

When?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Why do we always have to assume the worst possible reason in people?

Cynical answer? I'd say probably because, for all their good intentions, they can't help but feel in the back of their minds that they're being given a bit of a middle finger in response. Especially given how snippy responses towards the things they like can be.

[MegasonicZX]

When?

I don't think they've announced that at all, but why would they get a completely seperate actor for one character for the show/game and use the other for the mainline when both of their voices sound almost identical? I could see why if boom tails is just meant to have a different voice but from what we've heard from both show and game, he sounds almost the same. 

 

I'm not saying that they did replace kate and who knows, maybe she's only gonna be gone for a little while (sorta like the troy baker thing in the persona 4 anime) but I doubt they would need two actors with the same voice direction.

[Kuzu]

Cynical answer? I'd say probably because, for all their good intentions, they can't help but feel in the back of their minds that they're being given a bit of a middle finger in response. Especially given how snippy responses towards the things they like can be.

 

 

 

Adding to this. People can be cynical assholes when they feel like they're being forgotten for the new best thing.

 

 

Oh god, we've all turned into Artfenix., even worse; we've turned into Retrofags.

[Splash the Otter]

Chip did not steal Tails' role in Unleashed. Not in any way, shape or form. Chip would have only stolen Tails' role if Tails' role was as an ancient planet guardian whose responsibility was to fight his complete opposite (Who also happens to be a part of nature and the cycle of the planet and part of the thematic element that pervades the entire game) and who's journey was facilitated by memory loss.

 

Even despite that, Sonic's entitled to have friends other than Tails.

Even if it's inaccurate, I can understand why someone could reach that conclusion. Unleashed was the first game in a while that reduced Tails' role to that extent, and combined with Chip/Gaia also being a fox that travels everywhere with Sonic and can fly, it's easy to see why people might have thought Tails was being replaced...

[MegasonicZX]

Oh, its not like I mind though, I really liked chip as a character and I guess replace was somewhat of a bad word for it since I mostly meant in terms of just sharing friendly moments with sonic and all but then again though, that's more the writers fault than the character.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Even if it's inaccurate, I can understand why someone could reach that conclusion. Unleashed was the first game in a while that reduced Tails' role to that extent, and combined with Chip/Gaia also being a fox that travels everywhere with Sonic and can fly, it's easy to see why people might have thought Tails was being replaced...

Unleashed is probably the only game so far that has Tails in such a minor, background position. That still doesn't excuse the false equivalence in comparing Tails to Chip's role, and it reeks heavily of entitlement to boot in making a fuss over it especially when later titles give Tails more spotlight.

 

 

even worse; we've turned into Retrofags.

I dunno. Not all of us are desiring a complete return; I'm more, use the past to build the future, but I digress.

[Chaos Incarnate]

On the matter of the notion of Chip stealing Tails' role, I can sympathize with fellow Tails fans being disappointed on how reduced his role was in that game, but as Vertekins already covered, it doesn't really have much to do with Chip. If Chip were cut out of the story, it would be completely different, as Chip's role was serving as the Temple guardian and to defeat Dark Gaia every millions of years. Not to mention his relationship with Sonic felt like a polar opposite with how Sonic and Tails' works. With Chip, it's more of introducing someone to new things and helping them find their true self. That's not really how Sonic and Tails operate, Sonic is literally like a brother to him and they're the best of friends that can relate to each other easier. Sonic and Chip are radically different, and they become good friends for different reasons.

 

I would still love to see the Sonic/Tails bromance be able to surpass the emotional height of Sonic and Chip's friendship though.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

What could've been done better was having more narrative to Unleashed. :V

 

No seriously, the world gets blown to pieces and is the perfect opportunity for not just Tails to be active but everyone else, but where as Heroes, the Adventures and other titles use as many over whatever, Unleashed uses the bare minimum for a epic adventure?

 

Yeah, that's the wasted opportunity and potential for you. Would've been great to see Chip interact with Sonic's friends in addition to the sight seeing as they see Dark Gaia's influence before the final battle.

[Tara]

 

 

If she doesn't, then you're not giving it enough weight to justify Gerald and Shadow's revenge towards the world for losing their own world. If you're going to create something ambiguous, anyone could fill in the holes that can lead to horror, apathy, or mercy.

Still don't see it, honestly.  Leaving room for ambiguity doesn't exactly have to be a bad thing in regards to that, nor does it necessarily have to undermine anything.

 

 

 

But here's why it's petty:

 

By capturing and locking Maria up, on one hand, you're sending the message that GUN is showing restraint and being much more considerate of the lives onboard the ARK. They see a sickly little girl, and rather than shoot her, they keep her locked up. Yes, it's a maximum security prison, but she's alive and she can live out the rest of the life she has left. Killing her steals a lot more away from both her, Shadow, and Gerald, and makes GUN more of the bastard we're suppose to identify them as 50 years ago. But in avoiding that you're sending a different message.

 

And in that restraint you've given GUN over locking her up instead of shooting her, you making GUN a lot more merciful and much more sympathetic over the characters who's vengeance we were suppose to understand and sympathize while at the same time see how equally, if not more, disproportionate they're being in retribution, conflicting with the image they were suppose to present as an organization that's gone too far themselves. And with with that in mind, Gerald and Shadow's revenge comes off as petty because GUN allowed Maria to continue to live while they want to murder every person on earth, cutting their lives off more suddenly. Like the themes of forgiveness, dispropotionate retribution and revenge is another theme that is connected to it, one you would be weakening by having one side show restraint: GUN wanted WMDs for whatever reason and commission Gerald, Gerald works on it but then GUN decides to cut the plug and rather than stop the project they kill everyone on the ARK - and because of their unrestrained actions, they don't care if the people on the ARK is a sickly little girl, she dies with them too. Because Maria was killed so unfairly, that gives more cause for Gerald and Shadow to enact even more disproportionate retribution, and they want blood spilled for blood spilled until one of them takes a stand to break that cycle of disproportionate revenge that would destroy everyone and show forgiveness.

 

And this is just one side of the coin. On the other side, if we're still not making GUN sympathetic, you're making them darker and more sinister. They capture this sickly little girl completely uninvolved in the project being worked on in secret, lock her up, and they don't tend to her condition in a maximum security prison, keeping her locked up in a similar cell like Gerald, and they don't care and let her die of her illness. Now this is a cruel mercy, and while it justifies the disproportionate retribution and keeps the intent it also comes off as petty for GUN and much darker due to their indifference of her being ill but willing to keep her alive as she succumbs to it. This is the same kind of penitentiary stuff in works like Splinter Cell.

 

So you're trading one scene and risking one of two changes that have ambiguous results that completely change the themes in the narrative or goes even further than what you were trying to avoid. Or even negates the themes and ends up with something else unintended.

 

I still hardly call it sympathy when, as you said, it has the potential to be worse.  But I still think you're dismissing the detrimental effects of isolation and substandard living.  Not exactly good for the psyche, let alone the body.  The way I see it, it's no different than that silly "sending people to the Shadow Realm!" from the 4Kids dub of Yu-Gi-Oh.  What happens in the Shadow Realm?  Why is it a bad thing?  Do people get tortured there?  Are they just stuck?  It's never revealed, but apparently it's bad enough that doing so is considered highly amoral and the closest thing to killing without actually doing so.

 

Not to defend the 4Kids dub, as there are many narrative issues with it, but the ambiguity of the characters' overall fate really isn't one of them.

 

 

That's jumping off a slippery slope then, especially considering the examples I gave of lighthearted media similar to Sonic treading these same territories.

 

Except maybe Mario, I wouldn't call many of these examples "like Sonic."

 

There's a middle ground to these things, and telling me that a little girl getting killed like that cannot fit within the parameters of a Sonic game is telling me Sonic isn't and cannot be flexible enough to handle these elements with care because you don't like such family unfriendly moments in works like this

.

I think you're taking home the completely wrong message from it, then.  Because you're ignoring the fact that these issues work well in other children's media, including many of the examples you've already listed.  You're overemphasizing the "lighthearted" and "child-friendly" attributes, the latter of which is hardly the point.  Especially since the death of various echidnas, the flooding of Station Square, and even Shadow's own death are not points of contention despite the first two being arguably worse.

 

For example, since you're bringing up ethnic clensing in a work you wouldn't expect, there is a lighthearted work that does just that when it never delved into it before: Kung Fu Panda. Just like Sonic, Kung Fu Panda has never dealt with things like genocide and on-screen or off-screen death in a serious and straight faced manner until a later title. It was goofy with moments of high tension, and it wasn't as dark as what would come next. Where as Po defeats Tai Lung with the Wuxi Finger Hold in KFP1 in a not so dark manner, Lord Shen straight up murders Thundering Rhino with a cannon KFP2. And prior to that scene, there's the ethnic clensing in the intro with the Panda genocide in the sequel that Shen carries out to avoid a threat in a prophecy, while not specifically referred to as genocide but it doesn't put any ambiguity over it being a mass murder, and none of these things connected to it, such as Po's backstory were present in the earlier title. Yet the sequel doesn't feel any less like a Kung Fu Panda work. While you could argue SA2 doesn't feel associated with Sonic, you don't need to remove entire parts and replace them with different and softer in order to make it fit with Sonic.

 

I've never seen Kung-Fu Panda, so I can't really comment on that.  But I still don't see how that means it works for Sonic, especially given the titles that came before it.  It's much less the concept of murder, but the shocking, overtly-worldly way in which it was done.  Kung-Fu Panda takes place in Ancient China and as such comes across as a lot more historical and fantasy-ish than "girl being murdered through semi-realistic militaristic means."

 

It really isn't. Not the idea of it anymore than having that same girl dying in a maximum security prison for simply being around and all the other horrors that could imply.

 

Now I can understand the style and execution in pulling it off, but that can be altered so it can fit within the established world without changing it as a whole.

 

Can't really convince you otherwise by this point, so... yeah.  I'll continue to disagree, but honestly it just doesn't come across as something I'd want to see in Sonic, even if it were executed slightly properly.  

 

 

I'm actually saying this as though lightheartedness and dark elements like the one we're discussing cannot exist within the established work that didn't have them before.

My problem is more of the idea of pacifying the scene to the point of changing the thing entirely so that it isn't as dark, but also risks changing a lot of the themes, intents, and even motivations and audience perception of the characters and events to where it doesn't deliver the same message as intended. Because as you're saying that I'm not telling you how Sonic can do this on its own merits you seem more intent to avoid having it done at all.

 

 

 

Because you haven't shown me how it works in a Sonic title or how on a conceptual level it doesn't seem out of place.  You could point to instances of death in SA1, but I feel that while this sort of thing is implied t exist in the Sonic universe as it naturally does in the real world, the conflicts of murder and military affairs seemed like things that the Sonic cast are simply not connected to.

 

These comparisons underline a single point I'm making: that heavy elements like straight up murder and general lighthearted, optimistic narratives need not be completely divorced and can be shown with tact without betraying the series. The main criticisms of SA2 is that it feels out of place, like it is Sonic slapped in a different game. Understandable, when the points for it are that it's too realistic and the cartoony characters feel out of place in the environments.

 

But it still has to work within the established identity of the show or series in question, and I don't see Sonic as being that.

 

 

Because that's what we're going by as far as this discussion is going? It's not like the others are irrelevant, but the sight is the most predominant one.

 

But that's not where the discussion was going.  Even off-screen I find Maria's death to be incredibly jarring.  Her presence on-screen was never a factor in that.

 

Not really? I could just barely hear the gunshot over Shadow's theme song to the point you could miss it completely. (and it seems to be taken out in later ports)

 

Sega's piss-poor sound editing at the time does not change the authorial intent of the scene, which would have been drastically different had they had the technology and expertise to make a more loyal representation at the time.  It's much clearer when the languages are switched over to Japanese, and the fact that it's been omitted from later ports doesn't really change the fact that at one point it was still there, which means it's still a relevant factor.

 

 

 

Oh god, we've all turned into Artfenix.,

 

Was it really necessary to call out a banned member?  We don't encourage disrespect to anyone, regardless of their account standing on this forum, so please cut that out.

[Kuzu]

 

 

 

Was it really necessary to call out a banned member?  We don't encourage disrespect to anyone, regardless of their account standing on this forum, so please cut that out.

 

 

It was in jest honestly, I didn't any ill will behind it. But fine.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

 

I still hardly call it sympathy when, as you said, it has the potential to be worse.  But I still think you're dismissing the detrimental effects of isolation and substandard living.  Not exactly good for the psyche, let alone the body.  The way I see it, it's no different than that silly "sending people to the Shadow Realm!" from the 4Kids dub of Yu-Gi-Oh.  What happens in the Shadow Realm?  Why is it a bad thing?  Do people get tortured there?  Are they just stuck?  It's never revealed, but apparently it's bad enough that doing so is considered highly amoral and the closest thing to killing without actually doing so.

 

Not to defend the 4Kids dub, as there are many narrative issues with it, but the ambiguity of the characters' overall fate really isn't one of them.

I'm dismissing the effects of isolation and substandard living because all though they are heinous in their own right they do not synergize well with the desired mix of results of world-ending omnicide or the all around blood for blood spilled revenge and the associated theme of forgiveness of the broken characters we're suppose to have sympathy for while understanding that their actions aren't worth the price. Not in the manner you're trying to apply it. Something like that comes off as much more selfish than tragic to apply to the whole world rather than just the organization responsible for it.

 

That one change you're suggesting needs to change several other things (and maybe even more) within the scope of the whole narrative in order to make it fit the way you want it to.

 

 

Except maybe Mario, I wouldn't call many of these examples "like Sonic."

Mario has gotten away with much darker and disturbing elements even in his much more stylized and optimistic world, so I see even much less of a reason why Sonic should be barred from trying if we can make his attempts fit his series.

.

 

 

I think you're taking home the completely wrong message from it, then.  Because you're ignoring the fact that these issues work well in other children's media, including many of the examples you've already listed.  You're overemphasizing the "lighthearted" and "child-friendly" attributes, the latter of which is hardly the point.  Especially since the death of various echidnas, the flooding of Station Square, and even Shadow's own death are not points of contention despite the first two being arguably worse.

Then what is the message? You're telling me that it's about working for Sonic or associating it with Sonic, and how SA2 doesn't does this, but you seem to be more shunning the idea to stay away from Sonic period than anything.

 

 

I've never seen Kung-Fu Panda, so I can't really comment on that.  But I still don't see how that means it works for Sonic, especially given the titles that came before it.  It's much less the concept of murder, but the shocking, overtly-worldly way in which it was done.  Kung-Fu Panda takes place in Ancient China and as such comes across as a lot more historical and fantasy-ish than "girl being murdered through semi-realistic militaristic means."

It not specific to mean it works for Sonic, it means it works in general for titles that haven't tackled them before within the conventions they set out.

 

KFP takes place in a Medieval China with fantasy elements of kung fu, but they're much less historical in the way they're presented. In the first title, there's no genocide/ethnic clensing, no murder, and the tone is much lighter. The first title set out a comical, cartoony atmosphere with lots of slapstick moments while having tense and emotional elements in them, just like Sonic. But the sequel goes further and tackles those elements that were completely absent in the first, while still keeping it's comical, cartoony atmosphere it goes into darker territories and is much more other-worldly in what it brings over the previous work.

 

And like all the other examples I've given, it's that Sonic should be allowed to tackle these things within reason and tact, even if he hasn't done so before. Despite being connected to past elements, there were no things like water gods and Chao, or world with even more parallels to ours with police and more ground human civilizations like cities in SA1, but that didn't stop it from adding these new elements into the series and working well with them. Likewise, there were no things like militaries and government projects and the likes from SA2 present in SA1, but that shouldn't stop the series from working with this either.

 

Lots of series have done similar things and succeeded, and Sonic shouldn't be an exception if he can do so himself; If Sonic is capable of doing it, and doing it with tact, then simply put he should be allowed to do it. It's a similar relation to why Black Arms in ShTH seemed odd in the Sonic series, but things like the Wisps, the Deadly Six (although they're not exactly aliens) or the Twilight Cage residents could fit in much better; it's not the idea, but the execution - I wouldn't associate aliens to be a part of this series, but while they're both alients I could certainly see aliens like the Wisps or the Twilight Cage residents fitting in much better than something like the Black Arms.

 

Heck, this even goes back to Pokemon with the newer titles going into much darker and edgier territories that weren't easily associated with the franchise. Bottom line, it just makes absolutely no sense to make Sonic the exception to these things while other dozens franchises of similar atmospheres are pulling them off with their own unique attempts without betraying their series. You can call out how something doesn't seem to work well, but to bar him from having these things within the series reeks of exceptionalism that suggests Sonic shouldn't be near these things.

 

 

Because you haven't shown me how it works in a Sonic title or how on a conceptual level it doesn't seem out of place.  You could point to instances of death in SA1, but I feel that while this sort of thing is implied t exist in the Sonic universe as it naturally does in the real world, the conflicts of murder and military affairs seemed like things that the Sonic cast are simply not connected to.

I actually have, and you've been adamant to take them out regardless. Things like making things like the military less realistic and more cartoony, make the scenery more vibrant, or change the way she was murdered are ways it could be done so it isn't out of place.

 

And it just seems very hypocritical to not have the same issues with conflicts of murder in SA1 while having issue with the idea of it in SA2. Now military affairs, presented in SA2, I can understand how you wouldn't associate that with Sonic, but I think making it less realisitic and more stylized like the cast would make it connect more.

 

 

 

 

But it still has to work within the established identity of the show or series in question, and I don't see Sonic as being that.

That's kind of my whole point in my suggestions to make it work in within the series in question, with it being flexible enough to pull them off. And again, it doesn't make sense to see Sonic being like this in SA1 while being against it in general for SA2.

 

All in all, I don't see a lot of other series being a lot of things. I didn't see Mario tackling things like omnicide or ancient demons in the Paper Marios, I didn't see Pokemon tackling things like life-syphoning WMDs and war even if fantastical before Pokemon X and Y (nevermind how much darker the Movies can get compared to the TV series), I didn't see Kung Fu Panda tackling things like genocide, or Megaman series tackling things like the humanity of robots and how wrong it is to see them as less than people in things like genocide, and so forth, but that doesn't mean they can't have them around if they can do so without betraying their respective series.

 

Whether or not any of us can see a franchise doing something is completely irrelevant over whether the franchise can pull it off like the aforementioned examples from other franchises. And I don't see why subjects like the one we're discussing have to be so black and white when it comes to Sonic if it is possible for him to pull it off, which is why I find it all the more difficult to believe you're not against having heavy elements while telling me he should avoid such heavy elements.

 

 

 

But that's not where the discussion was going.  Even off-screen I find Maria's death to be incredibly jarring.  Her presence on-screen was never a factor in that.

Yeah, well her death being jarring was kind of the point... =/

 

 

Sega's piss-poor sound editing at the time does not change the authorial intent of the scene, which would have been drastically different had they had the technology and expertise to make a more loyal representation at the time.  It's much clearer when the languages are switched over to Japanese, and the fact that it's been omitted from later ports doesn't really change the fact that at one point it was still there, which means it's still a relevant factor.

I was actually saying that to mean that this was the first time I actually noticed hearing the gunshot, not that it was changing the intent of the scene. Probably what I should've said the first time, but eh...

[FriendBot]

Time to bump it up!

 

Probably popular: I found Sonic and Sega All-Stars Racing more fun than Transformed

 

Then again I have only played the demo, so I`m going to base it off of the videos I have seen.

 

Transformed does have the benefit of having better track design, a better soundtrack (Jacques was killing it in this game) and better visuals.

 

But I found All-Stars Racing more fun is by how user-friendly the game is really to the casual gamer. To unlock everything in the game, you just need to get enough SEGA Miles, which you get from finishing a race or mission, to get them all. It`s pretty acheiveable to the average gamer and I had a great time playing it on my cousin`s Wii when I was at France during the summer break at 2010.

 

In Transformed, you have to really go out of your way to get everything in the game, whether it is tracks, racers or mods, through World Tour Mode or completing Grand Prix Mode just to get Eggman.

 

In All-Stars Racing, whenever you are boosting you are invulnerable to in-stage hazards, whether its zombies or Egg Pawns, but in Transformed, Sumo decided to remove this. I am confused why they decided to remove this and I found it rather bothersome.

 

At this point, I might get the PC version of Transformed because it has more racers than the other versions but even then, I doubt I`ll get the game even then but that`s enough from me.

Edited February 28, 2014 by SoniTH

[Tara]

Honestly, I found it incredibly difficult to go back to All-Stars Racing after playing Transformed.  The latter just plays better in every conceivable way, in my opinion and also is a lot more interesting in terms of track selection and soundtrack, not to mention the transformed gameplay mechanic which calls back to games like Diddy Kong Racing.  All-Stars Racing is still a fun game, mind you, and is probably one of my favorite racing games still.  But I love Transformed with such a passion.