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KHCast

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But it doesn't make any sense for Mighty to join Team Rose though. Can we just leave the scrapped charcters alone that can't be used properly in the current continuity?

I'm sorry, but They CAN be used, as easily and with just as much purpose as any of the current cast, who for the most part are in almost the EXACT SAME PLACE as the scrapped characters, which is only allowed to stretch their legs in the comic, and Party games being the only partial exception, and thats mainly for roster fodder

 

The fact is that these characters did, and do exist, and that there are good, and perfectly acceptably ways they could be returned to the current continuity if someone was willing to take the time and effort, just like any other sonic character. Also you could have said Big had no reason in joining team rose either, and yet he did, Mighty with the proper motivation would be a fine addition

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You've got a point there but we know more about Big than we know about Mighty in the games. So if such a sitiuation can occurs, then the writers must reboot Mighty in general and give him a playstyle than can work in a Sonic game and still feel original, which I really doubt but I don't mind if it happens.

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I don't think it's impossible to bring him back, but you'd have to jump through a lot of hurdles to reintroduce Mighty in the games. He got lucky in the comics where he's always been a part of Team Chaotix, but in the games the Chaotix have gone without him, putting up a barrier in bringing him back. You'd have a mix of audience reactions toward him being around, not only because of the "Shitty Friends" syndrome outside the fandom, but inside we already have the groups established with some knowledge of each other.

 

Mighty would need a gradual reintroduction into a group, and I'm at a loss for how to do that. He's not like Nack where he can easily show up out of nowhere and antagonize people, so he'll need some work. Then there's a matter of differing him: he has a shell that can be used for defense, but other than that he has mostly the stock abilities like everyone else, so you'd have to give him a unique quirk. On top of that is whether or not the audience would like it, with fans already used to the Chaotix as a three man group.

 

This is just my observations, but Mighty has a lot of complications toward bringing him back. I wish you luck finding a way how.

 

 

 I actually think he should spend more time away from Angel Island, for the following reasons:

 

1. He wouldn't need to guard the Master Emerald 24/7 if it weren't in an outdoor shrine where anyone can get at it. Is there a particular reason he can't just hide it in Lava Reef or something?

 

2. I want Knuckles to develop as a character, not as an extension of where he comes from or what he owns. I also want him to have the same freedom enjoyed by the rest of the cast.

1) Because hiding it doesn't mean it's guaranteed to be protected. You don't hide your secrets and valuables and expecting no one to still come after it regardless. So (again) unless you can give a strong explanation as to why he's away from it, it becomes some really weak reasoning to have him around and risks weakening his development given his established traits are being ignored, meaning that his excuse for treasure hunting away from the Island (or any other excuse you make for him to be away) needs to match up with the risk he's taking for being away.

 

2) The extension of where he comes from, and even what he owns, is a part of developing him as a character. Everything specific to him, from his past, to his traits, to his property, and so forth is a way of developing him as a character. By taking him away from that, you're ignoring character development by wanting character development - doesn't make a lot of sense. All that stuff has been established for him, connected to him, important to him, and can further guide his development as a character into other places (which can lead to greater freedom, and can do so without ignoring those connections), and by ignoring it you leave yourself with little direction to build him from. We don't have to ignore his role as a guardian just so he can go treasure hunting - there's a reason he has limited freedom compared to other characters (who aren't doing anything worthwhile with their freedom either), and he's not the only character to be restricted (especially considering he's much less restricted than the likes of Blaze or Silver). Nevermind his limited freedom is also a part of his character by virtue of being a foil to Sonic and the contrasts that come with it that further add to his potential character development; not that you can't develop him out of it, but you're messing that up if you're just taking him away from the other stuff to free him because you don't want him on Angel Island anymore.

 

Finally, I've said many times, both to you and other people, that it's not hard to work around these things without throwing this stuff away and weakening his character to other fans who like these elements and associations. You could kidnap him and have him try to fight his way home, have some outside threat risk destroying his island and he has to leave to stop it, or increase the stakes to something like that of ShTH or Unleashed where the whole world is plunged into danger and needs everyone available to stop it. And I'm telling you once again, we don't have to give one side of his fans the middle finger for wanting to see more of the other stuff they like.

 

Nevermind that it's been more than a decade since we've been to Angel Island anyway, so he's been away from it for a pretty long time as it is.

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I don't think it's impossible to bring him back, but you'd have to jump through a lot of hurdles to reintroduce Mighty in the games. He got lucky in the comics where he's always been a part of Team Chaotix, but in the games the Chaotix have gone without him, putting up a barrier in bringing him back. You'd have a mix of audience reactions toward him being around, not only because of the "Shitty Friends" syndrome outside the fandom, but inside we already have the groups established with some knowledge of each other.

 

Mighty would need a gradual reintroduction into a group, and I'm at a loss for how to do that. He's not like Nack where he can easily show up out of nowhere and antagonize people, so he'll need some work. Then there's a matter of differing him: he has a shell that can be used for defense, but other than that he has mostly the stock abilities like everyone else, so you'd have to give him a unique quirk. On top of that is whether or not the audience would like it, with fans already used to the Chaotix as a three man group.

 

This is just my observations, but Mighty has a lot of complications toward bringing him back. I wish you luck finding a way how.

 

 

Well, it ought to be interesting to see how Ian handles it in the upcoming archie comics cause in the new universe he isnt part of chaotix, though he does still have Ray

 

And you could always use a modified version of the Sonic Arcade backstory, childhood friend of sonic who escaped from robotnik with, but to go their own seperate ways, but hey, just saying

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Well, it ought to be interesting to see how Ian handles it in the upcoming archie comics cause in the new universe he isnt part of chaotix, though he does still have Ray

 

And you could always use a modified version of the Sonic Arcade backstory, childhood friend of sonic who escaped from robotnik with, but to go their own seperate ways, but hey, just saying

Actually, in the Archie comics, Might is a part of the Chaotix, along with Ray. But they manage to strike out on his own in the later arcs, and that was due to him searching for his comic-exclusive sister, prompting the others to go searching for him.

 

Can't really say the same case for the games, where he hasn't had much of a direction to go on. I don't really have a solid view of where Mighty can go, so I'll just go by what I see of him if they ever decide to bring Mighty back.

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Actually, in the Archie comics, Might is a part of the Chaotix, along with Ray. But they manage to strike out on his own in the later arcs, and that was due to him searching for his comic-exclusive sister, prompting the others to go searching for him.

 

Can't really say the same case for the games, where he hasn't had much of a direction to go on. I don't really have a solid view of where Mighty can go, so I'll just go by what I see of him if they ever decide to bring Mighty back.

Yes, I know that, however Flynn has said that in the post second genesis wave world Mighty and Ray are No longer part of the chaotix

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Yes, I know that, however Flynn has said that in the post second genesis wave world Mighty and Ray are No longer part of the chaotix

Wow...really?

 

Well, yeah, guess we're just gonna have to wait and see how this holds up then.

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*pops in*

 

Yes, really. And it seems part of the reason was for the sake of the characters, partly for structural reasons...and partly because of SEGA.

 

*pops back out*

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1) Because hiding it doesn't mean it's guaranteed to be protected. You don't hide your secrets and valuables and expecting no one to still come after it regardless.

If it's hidden deep in a volcano and only Knuckles knows how to reach it, I'd say it's fine. It's a lot better than leaving it in the Temple of Chaos. And forcing him to stay on the island just because someone might still find it strikes me as paranoid.

 

So (again) unless you can give a strong explanation as to why he's away from it, it becomes some really weak reasoning to have him around and risks weakening his development given his established traits are being ignored, meaning that his excuse for treasure hunting away from the Island (or any other excuse you make for him to be away) needs to match up with the risk he's taking for being away.

Excuse me? Treasure hunting is one of his established traits. I didn't just "make it up". As for an explanation, let me remind you that it's his damn emerald, so he can do what he wants with it!

 

2) The extension of where he comes from, and even what he owns, is a part of developing him as a character. Everything specific to him, from his past, to his traits, to his property, and so forth is a way of developing him as a character. By taking him away from that, you're ignoring character development by wanting character development - doesn't make a lot of sense. All that stuff has been established for him, connected to him, important to him, and can further guide his development as a character into other places (which can lead to greater freedom, and can do so without ignoring those connections), and by ignoring it you leave yourself with little direction to build him from.

How the hell does owning the Master Emerald "develop" him as a character? It doesn't have to be ignored, but I don't want it shoehorned into the majority of his appearances.

 

We don't have to ignore his role as a guardian just so he can go treasure hunting - there's a reason he has limited freedom compared to other characters (who aren't doing anything worthwhile with their freedom either), and he's not the only character to be restricted (especially considering he's much less restricted than the likes of Blaze or Silver).

Blaze is hardly restricted - she's the queen of a parallel universe that has all kinds of opportunity for adventure. Silver wouldn't be restricted if he didn't go back to his own time period at the end of every game he was in.

 

Nevermind his limited freedom is also a part of his character by virtue of being a foil to Sonic and the contrasts that come with it that further add to his potential character development; not that you can't develop him out of it, but you're messing that up if you're just taking him away from the other stuff to free him because you don't want him on Angel Island anymore.

He doesn't have to stay in one place just so he can be a foil to Sonic. IMO, it's enough that he's the Blue Oni to Sonic's Red Oni (ironic, considering their fur color). And I never said I don't want him on Angel Island anymore. I just don't think he should need a reason to be off of it.

 

Finally, I've said many times, both to you and other people, that it's not hard to work around these things without throwing this stuff away and weakening his character to other fans who like these elements and associations.

It isn't hard to find a new facet to his character and develop him in that way either. Is there any reason Knuckles can't be "the guardian" when the plot requires it and "the treasure hunter" the rest of the time?

 

You could kidnap him and have him try to fight his way home, have some outside threat risk destroying his island and he has to leave to stop it, or increase the stakes to something like that of ShTH or Unleashed where the whole world is plunged into danger and needs everyone available to stop it.

None of these scenarios appeal much to me. Why do they all begin (and presumably end) with Knuckles on Angel Island? And why is the only one that doesn't involve the island in some way a "global disaster" plot?

 

And I'm telling you once again, we don't have to give one side of his fans the middle finger for wanting to see more of the other stuff they like.

But aren't you giving me the finger for wanting to see Knuckles in a role completely unrelated to Angel Island or the Master Emerald? One that has been part of the games since 2001, in fact?

 

Nevermind that it's been more than a decade since we've been to Angel Island anyway, so he's been away from it for a pretty long time as it is.

Actually, it's only been 7 years. And Knuckles hasn't done anything while he was away, so it doesn't count.

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If it's hidden deep in a volcano and only Knuckles knows how to reach it, I'd say it's fine. It's a lot better than leaving it in the Temple of Chaos. And forcing him to stay on the island just because someone might still find it strikes me as paranoid.

And that paranoia is justified considering what that thing can power death machines like the Chaos Emeralds. Nevermind how much it can amplify or negate the Chaos Emeralds energy, which makes it more powerful. Really wouldn't want that thing falling into the wrong hands considering what they can do with it.

 

 

 

Excuse me? Treasure hunting is one of his established traits. I didn't just "make it up". As for an explanation, let me remind you that it's his damn emerald, so he can do what he wants with it!

Right. So basically screw what I'd like to see of it, because he can do whatever he wants.  That's basically what your coming off as.

 

And I blatantly said "excuse you make for him to be away," not "you made it up." Stop straw-manning.

 

And him being able to do what he wants is no excuse as far as his explaination for being around.

 

 

 

How the hell does owning the Master Emerald "develop" him as a character? It doesn't have to be ignored, but I don't want it shoehorned into the majority of his appearances.

Because it is a valuable belonging of his, something that he has made most of his life toward protecting, and influencing a lot of his behavior, and gave him a lot of direction that seems to be lost when they started paying no attention to it. It's one of the reasons why he's the mountain to Sonic's wind, why he has obligations over Sonic's lack of them, and is connected to a rich past and back story that even Sonic lacks that is only comparable to Shadow.

 

If you don't want it shoehorned into all of his appearances (just like I don't want him shoehorned while ignoring it), then he should have a strong excuse for being away instead of "I felt like it" or "I want to go treasure hunting" or because "Eggman is a threat". Just like every other character around, such as Shadow, Blaze, Silver, etc.

 

Blaze is hardly restricted - she's the queen of a parallel universe that has all kinds of opportunity for adventure. Silver wouldn't be restricted if he didn't go back to his own time period at the end of every game he was in.

Blaze is restricted as far as being in Sonic's dimension, not hers. She can go anywhere in her world, but she hardly has opportunies to do so in Sonic's world.

 

 

 

He doesn't have to stay in one place just so he can be a foil to Sonic. IMO, it's enough that he's the Blue Oni to Sonic's Red Oni (ironic, considering their fur color). And I never said I don't want him on Angel Island anymore. I just don't think he should need a reason to be off of it.

Yet you're saying he should be away from it, which is practically dancing near the line.

 

I think he does need a reason, like everyone else, as it helps develop his character and show what risks he'll take however reluctant he might be.

 

 

 

It isn't hard to find a new facet to his character and develop him in that way either. Is there any reason Knuckles can't be "the guardian" when the plot requires it and "the treasure hunter" the rest of the time?

Well he can treasure hunt on his own island. Lots of stuff he can do on that large floating land of his alone. He can be brought around to bring whatever expertise in ancient cultures he might have. But can we not treat his role as a guardian only as something the plot requires over the treasure hunting part of him?

 

 

 

None of these scenarios appeal much to me. Why do they all begin (and presumably end) with Knuckles on Angel Island? And why is the only one that doesn't involve the island in some way a "global disaster" plot?

Maybe because he lives on Angel Island, so he wants to go back home afterwards? Why wouldn't he do this? You keep saying you're not for ignoring the island, then turn around and question why his still on it. Not exactly consistent here.

 

And maybe because a "global disaster" holds even bigger dangers if he isolates himself from the world that needs help?

 

 

 

But aren't you giving me the finger for wanting to see Knuckles in a role completely unrelated to Angel Island or the Master Emerald? One that has been part of the games since 2001, in fact?

No, and am telling you again, that I wouldn't mind him being away if you can give a strong explanation specific to Knuckles for being off of it, something you seem to refuse to do when others ask for it which is giving me and others who care about it the finger.

 

 

 

Actually, it's only been 7 years. And Knuckles hasn't done anything while he was away, so it doesn't count.

Which is still a long time, but I don't often count spin-off titles as they aren't seen as "big" and noticable over the mainstream titles that obscure them. I want it involved in a bigger narrative, and the last major thing involving the Master Emerald was in SA2 in 2001, which was 13 years ago.

 

And him not doing anything is while he was away is the whole point that counts towards why some of us want it involved.

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If you don't want it shoehorned into all of his appearances (just like I don't want him shoehorned while ignoring it), then he should have a strong excuse for being away instead of "I felt like it" or "I

But if he has to justify being away from Angel Island, then it's being shoehorned into his appearance by just being mentioned. Why can't we just assume the emerald is safe without him?

 

Well he can treasure hunt on his own island. Lost of stuff he can do on that large floating land of his alone. Can we not treat his role as a guardian only as something the plot requires over the treasure hunting part of him.

Not good enough for me. I want Knuckles to do stuff on the surface, where everyone else is.

 

No, and am telling you again, that I wouldn't mind him being away if you can give a strong explanation specific to Knuckles for being off of it, something you seem to refuse to do when others ask for it which is giving me and others who care about it the finger.

In that case, I'll be blunt. I care more about Knuckles than I do about his role as a guardian. In my eyes the Master Emerald is nothing but a burden, and I honestly wouldn't mind if it was retconned out of existence.

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But if he has to justify being away from Angel Island, then it's being shoehorned into his appearance by just being mentioned. Why can't we just assume the emerald is safe without him?

Dude, that is not what shoehorning is. Shoehorning, in the definition we're using, is fitting something for a specific purpose even when not well suited. Simply mentioning the thing isn't shoehorning, finding a justification isn't shoehorning, because those are suitable purposes that explain why he's away.

 

And the reason why we can't just assume the emerald is safe without him is in the very point I'm arguing: it's completely ignoring it. You keep telling me it doesn't have to be ignored, but then you give me answers that completely contradict what your saying.

 

 

 

Not good enough for me. I want Knuckles to do stuff on the surface, where everyone else is.

Which is fine if you can explain why his presence is his business. You're all but telling me that you want to ignore the island and the emerald at this point.

 

 

 

In that case, I'll be blunt. I care more about Knuckles than I do about his role as a guardian. In my eyes the Master Emerald is nothing but a burden, and I honestly wouldn't mind if it was retconned out of existence.

Well, you know what? Thank you for giving me the middle finger and confirming how self-centered you are over this when I wanted respect you enough to compromise so neither of us loses out.

 

I care about Knuckles and his role as a guardian, and I don't want either one to be sacrificed. The Master Emerald is a tool, not a burden, and it can be used as one if we actually used it. But I now know where you really stand over this matter.

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Well here goes...

 

Unpopular Opinion: I don't find Secret Rings and Black Knight stories to be the 'epitome' of Sonic stories/characterization. Now, that doesn't mean I don't respect those who do. I do respect others liking for how they portrayed Sonic throughout the two games. I just don't see it myself; like I have played Black Knight (not the first, only with gameplay walkthroughs and such) and overall, it's an 'okay' game. 

 

Then again, I'm someone who, when it comes to Sonic, don't hold much of precedence over story, at least. See, it's hard to really describe what I'm talking about, like if the game is enjoyable then I know it was worth it. Story helps engage me into playing yes, but it's not something I have much thought over. As far as characterization goes, I just can't see it. I mean I tried to get into how Sonic, as a character, is portrayed between both games, and I don't know...it doesn't 'get' me. I think I can say it's because I'm awfully lax/laidback when it comes to Sonic games, although don't get me wrong, there are games that I just don't enjoy or my level of enjoyable isn't as high as others (looking at you ShtH, SLW3DS, and 2006...)

 

With all of that said, does it sound like I'm coming off as offensive? I hope I'm not, it's just something I've been trying to understand since becoming a member here and reading varying thoughts and opinions. 

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Well here goes...

 

Unpopular Opinion: I don't find Secret Rings and Black Knight stories to be the 'epitome' of Sonic stories/characterization. Now, that doesn't mean I don't respect those who do. I do respect others liking for how they portrayed Sonic throughout the two games. I just don't see it myself; like I have played Black Knight (not the first, only with gameplay walkthroughs and such) and overall, it's an 'okay' game. 

 

Then again, I'm someone who, when it comes to Sonic, don't hold much of precedence over story, at least. See, it's hard to really describe what I'm talking about, like if the game is enjoyable then I know it was worth it. Story helps engage me into playing yes, but it's not something I have much thought over. As far as characterization goes, I just can't see it. I mean I tried to get into how Sonic, as a character, is portrayed between both games, and I don't know...it doesn't 'get' me. I think I can say it's because I'm awfully lax/laidback when it comes to Sonic games, although don't get me wrong, there are games that I just don't enjoy or my level of enjoyable isn't as high as others (looking at you ShtH, SLW3DS, and 2006...)

 

With all of that said, does it sound like I'm coming off as offensive? I hope I'm not, it's just something I've been trying to understand since becoming a member here and reading varying thoughts and opinions. 

 

Of course not, you're not being offensive at all.

 

So the story in Secret Rings and Black Knight don't click for you?

 

That's alright, granted I wasn't big on stories as well at the past but I did appreciate on how Sonic was selfless and caring when he took the curse in Secret Rings. There was that one scene where Sonic told Shahra not to worry about him and doesn't want her to feel upset. You can tell that Shahra has an abusive relationship with Erazor but she still wants to be with him, it might've been too sappy for some people but it's genuinely nice.

 

Black Knight was interesting as well, Sonic telling the other knights to question that is there more to a knight than serving a King and he was right on that, there is more to it. Sure that it can be rather ridiculous that Sonic manage to gain skill as equal as the other Knights despite using a sword for a few days but he adapts to it quickly and uses it as an extension to his basic attacks. Merlina being the villain was a rather surprising twist as well, and that moment where Sonic said to live life to the fullest is very true and can be applied to real life. But I did found Sonic being all cheery when he supposedly killed King Arthur, it's all like "Yeah! I killed someone!" but that's just me.

 

They are pretty well written stories for Sonic standards but probably not the best in the gaming industry.

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I do agree that Sonic and Tails' friendship was really well shown in Colors and Lost World (I don't get why Roger hates it, probably he depises everything Pontac and Graff got right). It really does show how much the two has been through and they aren't afraid to mock each other, whenever I see a scene with both of them, I can always expect a big smile after seeing it.

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I do agree that Sonic and Tails' friendship was really well shown in Colors and Lost World (I don't get why Roger hates it, probably he depises everything Pontac and Graff got right). It really does show how much the two has been through and they aren't afraid to mock each other, whenever I see a scene with both of them, I can always expect a big smile after seeing it.

 

Wait what? When was this established?

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Wait what? When was this established?

 

He meant Roger from the Sonic dissected videos.

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He meant Roger from the Sonic dissected videos.

 

Oh. I thought he meant Roger Craig Smith.

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This one's kind of dumb and minor and I've got no idea where it falls on the popularity scale, but whatever:

 

I don't really like that Knuckles can glide, and I hope the Boom version of the character can't do it unless the game makes it a lot of fun to use. It looks totally stupid, especially in 3D (and I can only imagine how much sillier Boom Knuckles the Amazing Flying Meatslab would be), and it makes even less sense than most characters' powers in this series. It has nothing to do with the rest of his powerset, it has nothing to do with echidnas, it's not connected to the big obvious magical thing he's associated with in any way...

 

(also, if Knuckles had some kind of super digging ability instead of gliding and you gave Rouge the ability to actually fly rather than shackling her to what Knuckles can do because they're rivals, that might be a cool way to contrast the two)

 

But really, 90% of the problem I have isn't anything rational, I just can't deal with that ridiculous slow-motion Superman pose.

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This one's kind of dumb and minor and I've got no idea where it falls on the popularity scale, but whatever:

 

I don't really like that Knuckles can glide, and I hope the Boom version of the character can't do it unless the game makes it a lot of fun to use. It looks totally stupid, especially in 3D (and I can only imagine how much sillier Boom Knuckles the Amazing Flying Meatslab would be), and it makes even less sense than most characters' powers in this series. It has nothing to do with the rest of his powerset, it has nothing to do with echidnas, it's not connected to the big obvious magical thing he's associated with in any way...

 

(also, if Knuckles had some kind of super digging ability instead of gliding and you gave Rouge the ability to actually fly rather than shackling her to what Knuckles can do because they're rivals, that might be a cool way to contrast the two)

 

But really, 90% of the problem I have isn't anything rational, I just can't deal with that ridiculous slow-motion Superman pose.

 

Naw, see, he traps air under his dreadlocks and that makes him glide. Obviously.

 

This is actually canon. :U

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Naw, see, he traps air under his dreadlocks and that makes him glide. Obviously.

 

This is actually canon. :U

 

And I quite like it, personally. It's no more nonsensical than Tails rotating his two helicopter blades (without getting them tied up, no less), or Cream flapping her very thin ears slowly. Though I have thought about how daft Boom Knuckles will look if he can glide.

 

I also don't know how on Earth Gawain managed it in Black Knight. He did the same pose as when Sonic flies of a dash ramp, and just sort of hovered with no loss of altitude. Looks cool though tongue.png

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And I quite like it, personally. It's no more nonsensical than Tails rotating his two helicopter blades (without getting them tied up, no less), or Cream flapping her very thin ears slowly. Though I have thought about how daft Boom Knuckles will look if he can glide.

 

I also don't know how on Earth Gawain managed it in Black Knight. He did the same pose as when Sonic flies of a dash ramp, and just sort of hovered with no loss of altitude. Looks cool though tongue.png

In tails an creams case (well at least tails' case) they have a good reason as to why they can do it (tails being born with two tails and somehow is pretty gifted in flying with them and cream, well you got me there) but with knuckles, they never actually did give a reason as to why he could glide as far as I know unless is some secret echidna technique or he was just born with it.

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JAiRO actually mentioned Knuckles' explanation. It's explained in some capacity in at least one of the manuals or other official bio, though I've no idea where specifically right now. He traps air under his dreads.

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JAiRO actually mentioned Knuckles' explanation. It's explained in some capacity in at one of manual or official bio, though I've no idea where specifically right now. He traps air under his dreads.

Oh really? I thought it was just a fan thing or something (sorry for not believing you JaiRo).

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