Jump to content
KHCast

Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

Recommended Posts

I can understand. I have other favorite characters other then Sonic that i may not see anymore either.

 

I know its not just Sonic who get treat bad in the some games. Im admiting that I am intidated by Sonics friends. I want to not be. So I understand.

Can you explain why you're intimidated by Sonic's friends?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SA2 ; Completely realizes his plans but his Grandfather ruined them. He had everything. He made Shadow HIS henchman. Well before the last acts of the game. He had the world in fear. (I still don't understand "his threat fell on deaf ears" was it because now the world was too terrified to completely understand his threats?)

You know, if people are actually panicking and are in a riot because of the actions you threaten them with....they aren't just going to sit there and listen to what you have to say, they're going to continue panicking until they know that something is going to be done about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sonic 06. I play for Sonic but it was mostly Shadow the Hedgehog featuring Silver and Elise

Because Shadow, Silver and Elise were the most important plotwise. Sonic's main villain was Eggman who ended up doing jackshit in the grand scheme of things, except the one idea of getting the Chaos Emeralds during The End of the World. Shadow's main villain was Mephiles who was the primary antagonist throughout the game (and it technically the final boss along with Iblis), Silver's story is significant because Iblis and Elise contained Iblis inside of her. It's not so much "stealing the spotlight" as it is, Shadow's significant because he trapped Mephiles (and other details not relevant to this post) and Silver's significant because Iblis is his longtime enemy. Also, to be fair, Sonic was protecting Elise the whole game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sonic 06. I play for Sonic but it was mostly Shadow the Hedgehog featuring Silver and Elise

Them being playable is NOT what gave them the spotlight. The story telling decision to have Silver and Shadow actually have the main plot mostly to themselves did.

 

If you want to blame something for that; blame the writers, not the playability of the multiple characters. Especially when more often than not, people go on record to say that Sonic was the most functional and fun when it comes to gameplay in 06.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In Colors, the final thing awesome Eggman gotz this, oh wait Sonic does see it'll be dangerous so makes Tails sit that battle out but then still jokes around. I don't care if Sonic did think it was dangerous, they made it seem like right afterwards he didn't.

 

I thought Sonic pushed Tails into the elevator to save him from the collapse of the InterstellarAmusementPark rather than from Eggman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought Sonic pushed Tails into the elevator to save him from the collapse of the InterstellarAmusementPark rather than from Eggman

It was mainly the former...Eggman was something they could both handle, but even then the Park was collapsing and it was a better option to send Tails back to the planet instead of risking both their lives.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

SA2 ; Completely realizes his plans but his Grandfather ruined them. He had everything. He made Shadow HIS henchman. Well before the last acts of the game. He had the world in fear. (i still don't understand "his threat fell on deaf ears" was it because now the world was too terrified to completely understand his threats?)

 

In fairness, Shadow was duping him the whole time to fulfill Gerald (and supposedly Maria's) real intent. As was Rouge as a government agent. His plans never got set in motion because Gerald and Shadow's plan was a fake from the start.

 

I can understand maybe his approach and demeanor was done right in that game, but that was arguably the most evident case Eggman's role consisted almost constantly of being a patsy. If the new games underwhelm Eggman's competence with lack of suspense and reaction (eg. Generations with him genuinely controlling the monster of the week and setting things in full motion from the beginning, and for icing on the cake, giving Shadow, Rouge, the Chaotix and practically every other 'alternate agenda' character that's made him their bitch in the past a revenge pwning), SA2 glorified his INcompetence by adding it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Welp time to make mah case.

 

In Colors, I completely forgot that the park was collapsing.

 

In SA2 while Shadow had his own motives, he was working for Eggman. I don't know if it's stated that he knew the Ark would fall but I thought that was a bonus to him. His goal was realized even if not through his initial means, which was the eclipse cannon. So.. 

 

As for the threat falling flat. I never got riot out of that cutscene. I don't think they clearly conveyed  that if that's what they were going for. They clearly listen to him. Hear his threat then panic. So he effectively carried out what I thought the purpose of a threat was. Instill fear into the person you're threatening. So they do what you want. He had the president on the line but Sonic and Tails cut the call. So, maybe I just didn't see it all. I just can't see riot. (I'll play SA2 again on wednesday to check)

 

 

In fairness, Shadow was duping him the whole time to fulfill Gerald (and supposedly Maria's) real intent. As was Rouge as a government agent. His plans never got set in motion because Gerald and Shadow's plan was a fake from the start.

 

I can understand maybe his approach and demeanor was done right in that game, but that was arguably the most evident case Eggman's role consisted almost constantly of being a patsy. If the new games underwhelm Eggman's competence with lack of suspense and reaction (eg. Generations with him genuinely controlling the monster of the week and setting things in full motion from the beginning, and for icing on the cake, giving Shadow, Rouge, the Chaotix and practically every other 'alternate agenda' character that's made him their bitch in the past a revenge pwning), SA2 glorified his INcompetence by adding it.

 

I.. I don't see incompetence. Rouge indeed had him fooled but what did that matter if Shadow put her in place (even if it didn't make to much sense) 

 

Eggmans Goal, Rule world > Shadow's Goal, make humans pay > Rouges Goal, Stop Eggman / Research Shadow.

 

Shadow was Eggmans "henchman" until Last Story. 

 

Also even though he controlled Time Eater, he effectively screwed his own plan. And what did that matter if Sonic didn't care. There was no tension. It was, "oh I beat Eggman all the time!" I'm just saying that games no longer give the proper setup and pay-off that others did. And that Eggman setting up the major threat, the tension, doesn't carry on to more games JUST because he's the main villain or final boss. I think Eggman doesn't set the plot up the way used to because he's the main villain. Even when controlling a monster of the week the writers effectively cancelled the feeling it could have had by making Sonic not give two rings about it.

 

Roger in Sonic Dissected explains it well. I can't link now, but will later. If you can look up "Sonic Dissected" it's about number 5 I think. or is that the Knuckles episode... hmm.. Well yeah,

 

I'm a bit too tired to finish up my thoughts so this will about wrap it up for now. [

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But here's the thing: Gerald's cannon would NEVER have worked as Eggman wanted it too. It was a fake from the start so his plan never got off the ground (yeah he got to show it off and make the world panic but that was more yanking his chain). Shadow from what I figured was just programmed by Gerald to await some power hungry sap release him and then trick them into activating the cannon with some world domination ploy (my guess is Amy's epilogue stating "Eggman tricked Shadow" was another translation error, since only vice versa occurs). It's possible Shadow was oblivious and just happy with either equally dire end, but either way he wasn't his 'henchman', he was in it for Maria, Eggman was just a tactician, or alternatively, a patsy.

 

I could argue Sonic didn't take Eggman seriously in SA2 either, the best we got from him was the cutscene he captured Amy and even there he seems fairly cocky. The genuine terror came more from other characters and Generations demoted most of them. Generations still got his own Not So Harmless moment curbstomping Sonic(s) in normal mode too. I'm not saying Generations' story was all that brilliant, but I'd say in terms of genuine menace Eggman wasn't THAT far down below compared to SA2.

 

I'm mixed about giving them the "proper" send off since so many stories have overblown tension and suspense to the point of pretentiousness. Look at Eggman in Next Gen for example, he's treated seriously in that, but it's arguably one of his most ineffectual roles yet. Same for Satam Robotnik, whose treated DEAD seriously despite being one of the most Stupid Evil incarnations of the doctor there is. Such cases are hardly the "proper" send off since it is too much for the plot and character to genuinely add up to. Sonic not taking Eggman seriously in the comedic stories blows down the suspense somewhat, but it is fitting for a light hearted story and perfectly in character for Sonic anyway, it does not betray anything. I would like to see Eggman get a more effective reaction at times, but I don't think some of those earlier games are a good example to follow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ahem. Okay for Shadow as Eggman's "henchman". He pratically was. He could've done everything himself if he truly wanted. He could have been another one of the things that Eggman couldn't control BUT he followed everyone of Eggmans orders, tricking him or not. I know he was in it for Maria / Gerald but different motives don't mean you can't work for someone. 

 

I work for a company that arguably wants to have the best service ever. They may want money too, but some of them I can really see their passion for the business. Because I work for my own motives, does that mean I don't work for them and I trick them into giving me money? No, because I still have to work for them.

 

In Shadow's case, from what I've studied he, while having his own goals, thought Eggmans we're the same or same enough to follow his orders. He was getting crap done. So he listened to em thought he'd blow up the earth or rule it. Then he be content because he got his revenge. But the cannon was programmed to send Ark down anyways so Shadow was happy. Either way it went. 

 

As for Eggmans more 'serious' appearances. When I say this, I mean the overall scene. Take everything into account here. For my first example lets say SA1:

 

In Sonic's story when he meets the Egg hornet. Sure he taunts Eggman but this is the opening, you don't wanna hit the big wow in the first parts. So Sonic takes it as "Another Eggman beating" sure. He see's chaos transform, then things get more serious. While he still jokes on the adventure it's not too out of place and it makes sense in context. He gets gassed by Eggman. That was a cheap shot, he takes a crack at Eggman but then resumes business because they have to get the emeralds. Then say Chaos 4. When he beat Chaos 1 it was a joke. Realizes "Eggmans" creature is getting serious then we have Chaos 4 where he doesn't joke. He jokes with Knuckles being a knucklehead as one of those little 'quips' because he knows Knuckles just made things worse. He doesn't taunt Chaos or Eggman. Now lets move onto Eggman himself. When he see's the Egg Viper he chases. They could've easily pulled a say, Generations where he taunts Eggman before fighting the big finale but they didn't and it made it seem like Sonic knew, "This isn't a time to joke"

 

In Generations even with the smack he gave the Sonic's he doesn't get serious. Maybe it's Roger's voice I dunno but "cracking Egg's super sonic style" don't sound too serious if you ask me (I know that's not the direct quote) If say Chaos smacked Sonic up, he wouldn't have got up then say, "I'm going to drain you super sonic style!" I don't care how many times he's beaten Eggman I want a balance dangit! All super heroes beat the villain all the time, but even for a game with such little story as Generations to give that umph to a finale you need at least a little tension. Maybe if Sonic slightly angrily yet still kinda joking said, "We beat you all the time and we're going to do it again!" It gives off that Sonic is frustrated or at least is sick of Eggmans game. 

 

Even if he beats Eggman all the time he has to realize time is literally like disintegrated. Like done for.

 

Okay I lost the flow of my argument but back to the other games I mentioned, Say SA2. You said Sonic doesn't take him serious. But note, it's only in the parts where Eggman gloats! And when Amy is captured THAT is one of those serious situation 'quips' because you know Sonic is serious but he also thinks he can just trick Eggman. So he's confident yet still at the least very concerned. "With this I can kill two birds with one stone!" He thinks he's duped Eggman, But then notice when he gets captured he knows it's business. He realizes Eggman caught him. He doesn't joke around while in the thing, which I will say newer games do seem to have a handle on. Like in Colors when he's in the room with the wisps being drained he doesn't joke.

 

But another example is Egg Golem. He see's Eggman and Eggman is just in his walker mech chillin. So Sonic thinks he's about to face something he clearly outmatches, but then BOOM! Egg Golem. Sonic show's his "fear" or otherwise he see's the threat.

 

Maybe it's more just the way other characters reactions AND Sonic himself and his reaction.

 

Compare this to Generations final boss. There's no worry about the monster that's actually being controlled by Eggman! He did it. But theres no little "woah..." like in SA2's Golem. Theres no direct worry. For a short little cutesy story that Generations aimed for it worked. But for some of us out there the least that could be done with such a small little story is get some reaction out of Sonic. Only in the beginning cutscene is he every showing his concern. It doesn't have to be serious Sonic always has frowny eyes whenever Eggman shows up but at least give him 'snark' or 'jokes' that count.

 

Also you said that Sonic not taking Eggman serious in the comedy stories fit because it's light-hearted, but no offence towards your opinion, I think that's an excuse. Lots of comedy films (the ones that pitch off this "funny comedy" on commercials but turn out to be action comedy / taking it's story serious comedy, those ones) still can get some tension without ruining the whole feel of "funny". This boils down to preference but most of them at least know how to do it. 

 

I think "light-hearted" becomes an excuse for the writers to weasel out of a true story. To me, there's a difference between light-hearted and 'nice little story, stories'. Light-hearted isn't an excuse to make a no story story. If you put a story in there, then it's meant to show at least some of what goes into a story. And "light-hearted" Eggman can still be intimidating without sacrificing the tone of the story. Yeah games like 06 or Shadow, as I stated in my first post, isn't menacing even if they tried and that's because they were to put it simply either trying to hard and/or not putting him in the spotlight as the main villain. In Shadow and arguably 06 he was there but wasn't the main villain, Mephlies and the Aliens/B.Doom were the mains.

 

I keep losing focus on what I'm trying to say but I'm just trying to say that they can strike a balance of light-hearted yet still taken seriously Eggman. And this goes for the writing as a whole. Light-hearted becomes this excuse rather than a real story element. Some stories aren't for the actual story but something to quench your thirst and I get that but when something puts in a story with this supposed to be climax of sorts and such, I can't accept light-hearted as a way to get out of less complete story.

 

I can't explain it but you can kind of tell that the writers didn't know how to handle some story elements but since its a 'light-hearted' story it can be looked over and I think that kinda sucks. That about wraps this one up until I can think of what I'm trying to say. Once I can find a clear consensus I will try an post again. Some others can probably explain it better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Basically, being lighthearted or comedic doesn't mean there can't be any gripping tension and stakes, and it's no excuse to accept a dramatic moment that feels watered down, weak, or just completely falls flat. 

 

It's no different to saying lighthearted =/= kiddy and dark =/= mature, the things some of us have continuously been saying when it comes to a balance of light and dark elements, because they are not that binary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unpopular opinion (probably)-- I actually really like this look for Sonic:

 

lXKEkBS.png

13D5A3H.png

KldiNwJ.png

WHtLOXY.jpg

 

It was Patrick "Spaz" Spaziante's style of drawing him during the early 100s issues (and issue 98's SA2 adaptation) of StH. It's obviously very line-y and shonen-like, and I could see many people disliking it due to its abundance of detail and that it would make Sonic seem lanky and disproportionate.

 

However, I almost can't help but wish this were the definitive look for "modern" Sonic today. I like how it seems to take a page from Sonic's taller, more athletic proportions in SA2 (which already had my favorite look for the character), yet it ramps up the sense of speed and fluidity through his poses alone. His face may not be the most expressive at times, but the way his eyes are drawn still conveys a sense of attitude that I think is actually accentuated by the lack of a mouth in certain panels.

 

Perhaps my favorite aspect is that there's very little (negative) cheesiness in this style that would deter any would-be readers from becoming attached to the character. Here, Sonic looks like a character that you know can kick ass and still look awesome doing it. He may be older and leaner, but he's still the same cocky, adventurous blue hedgehog that you know and love from the classic games.

 

tl;dr, this look for Sonic is the perfect storm of action and attitude in my opinion and I still gush over it every time I see it. It feels like a proper evolution of the character for its time and I would be completely on board with seeing it return in some form.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unpopular

 

#1 - Sonic Chronicles played fine.

 

Okay, put the pitchforks away, I hate the story as much as anyone, but, technically, the game played fine. I enjoyed the combat, the overworld played fine. I liked the way the "magic" or POW Moves worked, and that's that.

 

#2 - Both Storybook Games have provided us with the two best soundtracks in Sonic history

*ahem* Well, while we have gems such as:

 

I just happen to prefer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTzH9lIXLJ0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKzbAP4RILs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngaxovw1PPw

If you wish me to explain more I will, but that's all I have to say for now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My problem with Spaz was similar to a lot other artists at the time with the comics, he was a realistic artist trying to do cartoony stuff. You could tell because often the SEGA-ish characters came off more like a bunch of stiff, meticulously clustered shapes and, like so many others, he tried to make the characters he had free reign over more over the top humanoid (his 'furry' Sally outdates Butler's and Axer's in fact). While his attention to detail was also very commendable, it also sometimes had the unfortunate problem of making his art look VERY cluttered and hard to look at.

 

Richard Elson, one of the most iconic STC artists had almost the exact same problem, if not worse.

 

As for light hearted vs serious argument, I admit I'm kinda lost for retorts. I will say this though, if a story builds itself up as being something bigger than one with the same flaws, it will fall harder. A story that just aims simple and comes off bland will not be favored but won't leave people expecting a whole lot more. A story that tries to play itself off as being deep and filled with complex characters and plot lines and is just as bland will look like a pretentious joke. 'Aim low' is not a good message to give I agree, but if you talk big, you better be able to amount to it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My problem with Spaz was similar to a lot other artists at the time with the comics, he was a realistic artist trying to do cartoony stuff. You could tell because often the SEGA-ish characters came off more like a bunch of stiff, meticulously clustered shapes and, like so many others, he tried to make the characters he had free reign over more over the top humanoid (his 'furry' Sally outdates Butler's and Axer's in fact). While his attention to detail was also very commendable, it also sometimes had the unfortunate problem of making his art look VERY cluttered and hard to look at.

 

Richard Elson, one of the most iconic STC artists had almost the exact same problem, if not worse.

 

As for light hearted vs serious argument, I admit I'm kinda lost for retorts. I will say this though, if a story builds itself up as being something bigger than one with the same flaws, it will fall harder. A story that just aims simple and comes off bland will not be favored but won't leave people expecting a whole lot more. A story that tries to play itself off as being deep and filled with complex characters and plot lines and is just as bland will look like a pretentious joke. 'Aim low' is not a good message to give I agree, but if you talk big, you better be able to amount to it.

Wrong topic, or..?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was kind of a response to Superusername64's post about how Spaz used to draw Sonic.

 

And I do kind of agree since, while I like it to an extent, I tend to prefer some softness balanced with that 'hard and edgy' image Spaz tends to give Sonic nowadays.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wrong topic, or..?

 

SupUser's post just before yours.

 

On that note, have to agree with the sentiment his art was always a little bothering; especially the amount of detail he would put into the hands, particularly around the introduction era of Modern designs, showing Sonic's knuckles pressing up on the considerably huge and loose gloves. One of those little details that stands out on the simplistic and cartoony character designs.

 

Edit: fuck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As for light hearted vs serious argument, I admit I'm kinda lost for retorts. I will say this though, if a story builds itself up as being something bigger than one with the same flaws, it will fall harder. A story that just aims simple and comes off bland will not be favored but won't leave people expecting a whole lot more. A story that tries to play itself off as being deep and filled with complex characters and plot lines and is just as bland will look like a pretentious joke. 'Aim low' is not a good message to give I agree, but if you talk big, you better be able to amount to it.

I think we all know the problems behind giving more narrative in the series. SA1 certainly didn't aim low, and it had more problems within it overall, but that doesn't stop it from being one of the most memorable games in the franchise. Same with SA2, even if time hasn't been so kind with it.

 

You notice how despite these titles getting the acclaim they did, ShTH and Sonic 06 which both tried to emulate them failed and recieved scorn for it when they failed. Colors and Generations, for all their simplicity and better quality over previous titles, still had some criticism for their narratives among some. And even then you still have people wanting an Adventure-esque plot like they got more than a decade ago, and (at least the people here) are welcoming that Sonic Boom is attempting some semblance of it while being a different continuity.

 

People want them to aim big after having the bar set low for so long, and they want them to amount to it. Yet there's a lot more problems in the franchise as far as the narrative goes than the problems with a lighthearted vs serious narrative, such as character roles, usage, and motives, messed up backstories, and what appears to be an almost complete disregard for any previous references and elements that people enjoy and want to see again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So here's an unpopular opinion that I've come to notice during the past 24 hours; I don't hold Sonic '06 on a throne of infamy like quite a lot of people do. I'm mostly just apathetic to it.

 

Don't mistake my words for thinking it's any better than bad, I know it's technically broken, the plot is so of full of holes it resembles Swiss cheese and the dialogue is cheesy as hell...but I simply can't react to the game. When I played it, I got part way through the story with each character, stopped playing for having to more than anything and then never having the drive to finish it. I didn't particularly feel like having a go at the plot, or abusing the glitches, or anything. It's just...a thing in my eyes.

 

And I still say that Secret Rings, despite being technically better, is far more hated by me. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

You must read and accept our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy to continue using this website. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.