Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[SBR2]

It's almost as if different things have different art styles and thus different expectations

aka "I wonder how you'd like Liefeld doing Ghostbusters"

 

I wonder what you'd be like if you weren't an obnoxious jerk?

 

Also really you're comparing Shoening to Liefeld? You don't like him fine but do you really need to resort to hyperbole?

[Nepenthe]

If people here could not resort to immature name-calling or of being unnecessarily snarky when refuting someone, that would be great.

[SBR2]

Sorry That was out of line I know. I let my own frustration with KKM get in the way of my own judgment when posting. 

[Big Panda]

I'm personally about 50/50 on Schoenings art. ...maybe 60/40.

The raves:

-Characters are pretty on-model for the most part.

-Nice details,

the double-pager of the worlds fusing is incredible-looking.

The graves:

-The poses look a little stiff in some parts, like Sonic's running pose at the beginning of part 1.

-The Sonic characters, as VEDG-F mentioned elsewhere, constantly have what can be described as surprised expressions.

...actually that's two each, so I guess it is 50/50 P;

[Agie]

Considering he had plans to go to #300 prior to the Penders mess, I doubt a hard reboot was on the cards. Altering things to mandates like what #236 did with Tails not calling his parents by his titles, sure. Gradually redesigning everyone to look more SegaSonic like how Bunnie, Sally and Antoine were in transition, Liza, Hershey, Saffron etc. were planned to get new designs and stuff, sure. But not a hard reboot, he had lots of stories he wanted to tell within the old continuity.

Thus why I say Ian might not have done it of his own will regardless. Though whoever replaced him might have.

[Mauro Fonseca]

Not likely. a reboot'd be forced only by removal of characters- and that was only happening due to editorial.

[Flip the Bird]

Unpopular Opinion (From what I've seen anyway): Sonic needs to stay simple story wise.

 

The classics revolved around saving woodland creatures and stopping Dr. Robotnik from creating his "Death Egg" doomsday device to scare the masses into submission... Why do we need "deep", "dark" and "edgy" plot for a Sonic game? That's like asking for an E-Rated God of War. Now I know people say, "Mario's lighthearted and Sonic is his opposite; therefore, Sonic should be darker and edgy."

 

However, you can be opposites and still have a lighter, more fitting presentation for the game(s). Sonic still has his cocky attitude, witty remarks and overall fun loving traits. Just keep the story grounded in what made the classics great and memorable by changing how it's told or coming up with new ideas that are told in a way Sonic isn't really known for.

[Your Vest Friend]

Right now, I don't think people are calling out for dark and edgy plots. They're calling out for plots that are at least a bit more involved than what we've been getting because they've squandered opportunities for character interaction (Hello Generations primarily) and any sort of stakes (aside from Sonic Lost World which had a moment of trying way too hard despite the plot not giving us ample reason to be invested prior to that point).

[SenEDDtor Missile]

EDIT: Okay, now that I've eaten and calmed down a bit, my point I'm trying to make in less shouty terms is that making a story simpler and lighter won't help anything if the story is still poorly written. Heroes, Colors, Generations, and Lost World are examples of that, since despite their lighter tone their stories are still poor due to having sections of story go nowhere, badly timed and not particularly funny jokes undermining the story, and a lack of real conflict. Granted the darker stories haven't fared well either with only a few exceptions (and that's debatable), but swinging too far in the other direction doesn't really fix the true issue either: BETTER WRITING will at least fix some of it.

Edited June 17, 2015 by SenEDtor Missile

[Komodin]

Unpopular Opinion (From what I've seen anyway): Sonic needs to stay simple story wise.

 

The classics revolved around saving woodland creatures and stopping Dr. Robotnik from creating his "Death Egg" doomsday device to scare the masses into submission... Why do we need "deep", "dark" and "edgy" plot for a Sonic game? That's like asking for an E-Rated God of War. Now I know people say, "Mario's lighthearted and Sonic is his opposite; therefore, Sonic should be darker and edgy."

 

However, you can be opposites and still have a lighter, more fitting presentation for the game(s). Sonic still has his cocky attitude, witty remarks and overall fun loving traits. Just keep the story grounded in what made the classics great and memorable by changing how it's told or coming up with new ideas that are told in a way Sonic isn't really known for.

 

At this point, we couldn't care less for any "dark & edgy" nonsense. We just want a more competently handled story, where those that aren't Sonic and Eggman have a more substantial presence in the overall plot. That can be done without resorting to Shadow/'06 tiered immature "maturity", so it puzzles us (me, at the very least) why Sega seems so put off from doing something as simple as even that.

[FireBird75]

At this point, we couldn't care less for any "dark & edgy" nonsense. We just want a more competently handled story, where those that aren't Sonic and Eggman have a more substantial presence in the overall plot. That can be done without resorting to Shadow/'06 tiered immature "maturity", so it puzzles us (me, at the very least) why Sega seems so put off from doing something as simple as even that.

It's because it's not so simple.  Sega has never had the best writers on staff and even hiring outside talent has proven difficult for them.  Even the better written games of the series have their varying degrees of success.   They most they can do is to do the best they can but the thing is... sometimes your best just isn't enough :/

[SBR2]

Unpopular Opinion (From what I've seen anyway): Sonic needs to stay simple story wise.

 

The classics revolved around saving woodland creatures and stopping Dr. Robotnik from creating his "Death Egg" doomsday device to scare the masses into submission... Why do we need "deep", "dark" and "edgy" plot for a Sonic game? That's like asking for an E-Rated God of War. Now I know people say, "Mario's lighthearted and Sonic is his opposite; therefore, Sonic should be darker and edgy."

 

However, you can be opposites and still have a lighter, more fitting presentation for the game(s). Sonic still has his cocky attitude, witty remarks and overall fun loving traits. Just keep the story grounded in what made the classics great and memorable by changing how it's told or coming up with new ideas that are told in a way Sonic isn't really known for.

 

Dude in my experience expressing enjoyment of Pontac and Graff's stories just opens up the "Pontaff are the literal devil" can of worms.

[Flip the Bird]

At this point, we couldn't care less for any "dark & edgy" nonsense. We just want a more competently handled story, where those that aren't Sonic and Eggman have a more substantial presence in the overall plot. That can be done without resorting to Shadow/'06 tiered immature "maturity", so it puzzles us (me, at the very least) why Sega seems so put off from doing something as simple as even that.

 

I've seen many people beg for a darker tone, similar to Adventure 2. That's not the point though; Sonic has a ton of characters... Too many actually... However, while I agree it's puzzling that Sega is so incompetent with simple stuff (So I'm likely asking way too much of them), I personally believe that unless characters, who aren't Sonic & Robotnik, impact the plot in a meaningful way (Example being Knuckles in Sonic 3 & Knuckles) Sega should keep it cameo or drop the axe, focus on level design and give each act a bit of interesting lore and aesthetics to help push the plot with their visual presentation to make Dr. Robotnik, or whoever the villain may be, an actual visible threat as the player progresses through each zone but do it in a way that keeps it simple without the silly 'monster of the week' or 'godlike beast' formula. That's basically what I meant above.

Dude in my experience expressing enjoyment of Pontac and Graff's stories just opens up the "Pontaff are the literal devil" can of worms.

... Read my post again friend. I think you misunderstood my meaning.

[ThePrinceOfSaiyans]

I've got a pretty unpopular opinion, I suppose. I feel the Sonic the Hedgehog games are usually superior to Mario games. Mario games may be swimming in polish, but unfortunately, gameplay is all the franchise has going for itself IMO. The characters are all incredibly flat, and the story is about as simple as it could possibly be. Even with the RPGs, I found it hard to get invested, despite the better written characters and story. Putting that aside, while the gameplay in the Mario games is solid, I just feel it doesn't compare to even the most mediocre Sonic games. For example. I beat Sonic Lost World, a pretty sub-par game, to 100% completion before I even touched Super Mario 3D World, and that game I picked up and put down countess times. It took me a few months just to bring myself to beat the game, and I still haven't even come close to completing it. Super Mario 3D World is supposed to be a wonderful game, on par with the Galaxy titles based on what I've read and heard, but I didn't think much of it. Maybe I've just gotten tired of Mario, but even was a kid, I didn't think titles like Super Mario 64 compared to Sonic Adventure. 

[Monkey Destruction Switch]

Can you post unpopular opinions on behalf of others?

 

Because my sister's favorite Sonic game is Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine.

[Agie]

Popular: I am confused by Sonic Boom: Fire & Ice's existence, though there is at least one logical theory...

 

Unpopular:...but I can't really call it a terrible thing, either. Yeah, it might fail, but only time will tell. 

 

Though I haven't played Shattered Crystal yet. I should, if nothing else but to decide for myself if it's any good. Though it's not a priority now, but somehing I'll get down the line.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I've seen many people beg for a darker tone, similar to Adventure 2. That's not the point though; Sonic has a ton of characters... Too many actually... However, while I agree it's puzzling that Sega is so incompetent with simple stuff (So I'm likely asking way too much of them), I personally believe that unless characters, who aren't Sonic & Robotnik, impact the plot in a meaningful way (Example being Knuckles in Sonic 3 & Knuckles) Sega should keep it cameo or drop the axe, focus on level design and give each act a bit of interesting lore and aesthetics to help push the plot with their visual presentation to make Dr. Robotnik, or whoever the villain may be, an actual visible threat as the player progresses through each zone but do it in a way that keeps it simple without the silly 'monster of the week' or 'godlike beast' formula. That's basically what I meant above.

There's nothing really wrong with SA2's tone honestly, and if anything it's the one game that actually gets "darker and edgier" Sonic right.

The main problems with it would be the hiccups in its plot (which can be solved by making it more consistent), or its realistic aesthetics which SA1 is equally to blame for, if not more so for starting it. But other than that, nothing wrong with having another SA2-level of darkness. Wouldn't mind having another one.

 

Now, ShTH dark? That can fuck right off. Even as someone who likes when things get darker and edgier, that was absolute shit. But to reiterate what everyone else has said, the whole summary is basically this: it doesn't matter how light, dark, complex, or simple the story is, it can still suck major ass if handled badly. It's all about quality and execution. 

 

No one complained about the Classics because aside from S3&K they barely even had much of a plot in the first place (unless you're going by the Japanese where they had more than expected). And while I agree that characters other than Sonic and Eggman shouldn't be around without impacting the plot, they don't have to regress back to the Classic's level of simplicity to tell stories. That's not saying they shouldn't have a simple plot if they want, but that they shouldn't be required to stick to it anymore than they should stick to a more complex plot.

 

We just need to make the stories, whether simple or complex, good and fitting within the style of the franchise. It says a lot that every other platformer, Mario (Paper Mario 1, Thousand Year Door, and Super Paper Mario), Megaman (X and Zero series), Rayman (mainly Rayman 2), and many others have had complex stories as dark as SA2 (if not darker given Megaman Zero showing people dying on screen and it's story being about genocide).

[Mauro Fonseca]

Disingenious to use Zero as an example. It's a separate branch with a separate tone. If you had explicit genocide in Classic Mega Man, then you'd have a point.

Can't speak for the others.

[Bowbowis]

We just need to make the stories, whether simple or complex, good and fitting within the style of the franchise. It says a lot that every other platformer, Mario (Paper Mario 1, Thousand Year Door, and Super Paper Mario), Megaman (X and Zero series), Rayman (mainly Rayman 2), and many others have had complex stories as dark as SA2 (if not darker given Megaman Zero showing people dying on screen and it's story being about genocide).

 

It's not a platformer but I feel inclined to mention Pokémon too. Yes Pokémon, the king of simple, lighthearted stories. The darker and edgier nature of Black & White and their sequels is readily apparent in basically everything Ghetsis does. Ever. Meanwhile X & Y's backstory revolves around what is effectively the fantasy equivalent of a nuclear bomb. Orre (from the Gamecube games Colosseum and XD) is essentially a barren wasteland, to the point that almost no wild Pokémon live there anymore. It's so bad that in the first game our "hero" is an ex-member of the local Team Rocket equivalent and the villains, Cipher, are a bunch of cruel, heartless bastards who implicitly murder a whole ship full of people. That's not even going into the Mystery Dungeon games. The sheer amount of dark and depressing stuff that goes down in Explorers alone is jaw dropping. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Disingenious to use Zero as an example. It's a separate branch with a separate tone.

Unless you're also counting the X series as a separate branch, that is so unbelievably far from the truth that it's being intentionally dishonest. Major plot points in Zero (i.e. Elf Wars succeeding the Maverick Wars after finding a cure for the Maverick/Sigma Virus, Area Zero born from the Space Colony Eurasia crashing) are blatantly connected to the X series preceding it that it's obviously a sequel series to X as X is to Classic Mega Man.

 

It's also completely beside the point. Even considering what you said, the Paper Mario Series are equally separate, if not more so, from the other Mario titles. So I fail to see how that invalidates my point about these franchises going into darker and edgier territory.

[Mauro Fonseca]

I AM counting X as separate, which is why I specifically said "Classic Mega Man", and I'm not saying your point is wrong, just that that one example can't really count due to a different context. It's as if you tried to sell me "cartoons can be serious" by pointing at the Superfriends cartoon and then at DC's Dr Light raping the Elongated Man's wife from the comics. Different branches with different moods when you're arguing for the potential of mood variety inside one branch.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I AM counting X as separate, which is why I specifically said "Classic Mega Man",

Okay, good to know - tho that makes even less sense why you called out Zero and ignored X. You also realize, however, that I wasn't using Classic Mega Man as an example and left it out on purpose, right? So that's not helping your case.

 

and I'm not saying your point is wrong, just that that one example can't really count due to a different context. It's as if you tried to sell me "cartoons can be serious" by pointing at the Superfriends cartoon and then at DC's Dr Light raping the Elongated Man's wife from the comics. Different branches with different moods when you're arguing for the potential of mood variety inside one branch.

Then I'd say you're using the wrong context. I'm talking about them altogether, not separately.

 

It would be more like me using either Superman or Batman the Animated Series, and then using either Justice League or Batman Beyond as far as them becoming even more serious animated works connected to each other.

[Mauro Fonseca]

My point is that Classic Mega Man is what's comparable in tone with Sonic, so using its darker cousin is disingenuous. "Oh Marvel cartoons can be more serious", and instead of comparing it to what's comparable (DCAU), you point to, well so I can keep on the same logic, some sort of animated adaptation of Identity Crisis.

Not arguing your point at all, just really don't feel that Zero's an argument to use here. I wouldn't argue for the potential for seriousness int eh Sonic comic by pointing at Maus.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

My point is that Classic Mega Man is what's comparable in tone with Sonic, so using its darker cousin is disingenuous. "Oh Marvel cartoons can be more serious", and instead of comparing it to what's comparable (DCAU), you point to, well so I can keep on the same logic, some sort of animated adaptation of Identity Crisis.

Not arguing your point at all, just really don't feel that Zero's an argument to use here. I wouldn't argue for the potential for seriousness int eh Sonic comic by pointing at Maus.

And my point is that every iteration of Megaman games from Classic to Zero is comparable to iterations of Sonic games from Sonic 1 to SA2, just like all the other examples from franchises like Mario and Rayman despite them having separate branches. There's nothing disingenuous about using any franchises' darker cousins when the point is nothing more than "we just need to make the stories, whether simple or complex, good and fitting within the style of the franchise. It says a lot that every other platformer...have had complex stories as dark as SA2." (I should also emphasize that they should be good)

 

And I really don't get why each and every time someone makes a point, you always make an extreme strawman or derail it with things completely divorced from their point with examples so disconnected to each other. Maus? DCAU and Marvel, when I compared Batman and Superman to Batman Beyond and Justice League? Animated universe from the Comic universe? Really, dude? Can you at the very least knock that off? This is like the third time I've asked you this, and you keep at it.

[Mauro Fonseca]

Because the point isn't strawmanning, it's to make a metaphor to try and convey the idea. I'm sorry, it's how I structure my thoughts, by comparisons. X is like Y, and if you don't understand what I mean by X, then an approximation by Y might help. See? Just did it right now and didn't even think of it.

And I disagree that that really works. The point of Zero was a completely different tone from Mega Man. It's a brand unto itself, like X, etc etc. Paper Mario is still somehow Mario, still somehow in Mario's world, etc etc. I'll assume Rayman in 2 is still Rayman, etc etc. Zero is a different character in what's for all effects a different world (centuries after) all with a different tone. SA2 is Sonic, in Sonic's World. It's comparable to the Mario and Rayman examples, but Zero really doesn't gel here.

EDIT: Pardon yet another comparison, but (and this is obviously more exaggerated, exaggeration by simplification passes the idea more simply, I'm obviously not saying you're literally saying Sonic will be as dark as Maus, but it's a faster means to convey the message. Simplify, exaggerate. So here comes another- - ) imagine you're arguing for the seriousness of children's cartoons, by pointing at Ren and Stimpy. But not the normal one, but Adult Cartoon Party, the branch-off specifically made to have a totally different tone from what you were using as an example in the first place.