Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

2 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Personally I found FP's story to be a complete and utter failure though, and pretty much exactly what I don't want out of Sonic games.

Yeah, telling me "I don't like it" isn't exactly convincing nor does it refute my point. Comes off as more self-absorbed to be honest.

2 hours ago, Wraith said:

Freedom Planet's narrative is constantly cited as the weakest part of the game by far though to the point where I've heard more encouragement to skip the cut-scenes entirely than anything.

Funny, cuz I've actually see quite a number actually liking and praising it just as much, especially compared to the likes of Sonic's plots. Hence why they're continuing it in its sequel. I know not everyone likes it (which is why they had the Classic mode feature), but considering the general praise, I doubt it's as one-sided as you make it out to be.

1 hour ago, Clewis said:

 

Kuzu stated he doesn't think a game with very little narrative focus would be received very well (By Sonic fans? By the general public? I wasn't really sure since he didn't specify).

Is that actually what he said? Because I don't see how stating "some level of narrative to care" means having little of it would be bad, and frankly games like Generations barely had even that compared to the likes of Rayman.

[Nepenthe]

2 hours ago, Clewis said:

That was actually the point I was trying to make. It wasn't really my intention to come across as one of those people who think "PLOT + SONIC = AUTOMATIC SHIT".

I didn't mean to imply you were saying that; I was merely elaborating on the "why." Granted, I also meant to imply that Sonic has little likelihood of acquiring the kind of gameplay polish that Rayman has to achieve a game where the lack of previous lore and storytelling didn't matter.

[Yoko/葉子]

Popular: Eggman does have an impressive mustache, but it is fake compared to mine! Mwa, ha, ha, ha!

I do agree that the games didn't need a massive tonal shift with Shadow's game and 06.

Unpopular: Constantly bashing the unpopular games is cruel to the people who do like them. It is like with Christianity, many hate it, but harping on it excessively is not fair to the people who do follow it. It's almost as if haters of ShTH and 06 are trying to make the few who do like feel ashamed of being different. I'm not saying they shouldn't criticize at all, but there needs to be a balance. I stopped playing those two for reasons unrelated to the common reasons, but I still find the fun I did have in them to be a nice memory.

As a voice actor in training, I see no reason to shame voice actors for not being the ideal English voice. I dislike how a few sounded, but generally, they all caught a different aspect of a character better. When dubbing, you are generally expected to be true to the original, yet make your own take, not imitate.

Hate on Dan Green/Jay Snyder all you want, but if you think he's so bad, remember, he has done more audiobooks than you, he is a coach now, his profile on Edge Studio says he has been on Broadway and he goes to cons to do comically scripted duels as Yami and Yugi. He wants the duelists to have fun. He told me himself that he had Mephiles sound more formal than Knuckles and most people missed it. Just because he was not given the best script to work with does not mean that he wasn't scary to hear as Mephiles. Plus, he is funny on the phone.

More of a fact, but: Jay's not an idiot like some people think, when I had my latest session with him, I suggested him The Kane Chronicles as he was Yami and Yugi. I mentioned how it is much more faithful to the Egyptian lore than Yu-gi-oh was by saying that Horus and Set did not get along. He responded, "poor Isis, putting your spouse back together should be a figurative experience, not a literal one." Meaning he was aware that his work was not very accurate. He is also a nerd like the rest of us, he loves Gatchaman. @Pink Cat

@Ducktor Naldush Repulsa Apparently he was aware of them since the early edited versions. He also loves Star Wars, but prefers Han Solo. Seriously, if you guys ever hire him for a voice lesson, feel free to talk about nerdy things at the end of the session.

I think Erica Schroeder was a good Tikal, I still prefer the original dub voice, but they are both fine in their own way.

[Diogenes]

6 hours ago, ChaosSupremeSonic said:

Yeah, telling me "I don't like it" isn't exactly convincing nor does it refute my point. Comes off as more self-absorbed to be honest.

So self-absorbed of me, to post an opinion in the opinion topic.

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Funny, cuz I've actually see quite a number actually liking and praising it just as much,

So these unnamed, unspecified masses' opinion matters?

Freedom Planet is seen as a Sonic successor because, having started as a Sonic fan game, the end result still looks and plays a lot like a Sonic game. The story doesn't really factor into that label. Or maybe it does, if it's a successor to Sonic games like ShtH and '06, and continuing the series' tradition of not knowing a damn thing about how to tell a story.

Anyway, story. Story story story. Y'know what I want out of a Sonic story? I want Shovel Knight. Keep the tone light but not without conflict, give me a simple objective, throw in a few twists along the way, carry the bulk of it with colorful, evocative characters, and know when to set it aside for the expertly designed and polished gameplay that is the foremost reason I'm playing it.

[TwoTailedHero]

I don't know how unpopular this opinion is, but I've not seen many people online agree w3ith me... 

I actually really like Roger Craig Smith's take on Sonic. Sonic is nearly 25, and I think RCS does a great job.

[FriendBot]

25 minutes ago, TwoTailedHero said:

I don't know how unpopular this opinion is, but I've not seen many people online agree w3ith me... 

I actually really like Roger Craig Smith's take on Sonic. Sonic is nearly 25, and I think RCS does a great job.

Well I'm quite sure that a lot of people have grown to really like Smith's voice for Sonic so I'm pretty sure it's fairly popular. 

And it's the series that's 25, Sonic the character is forever a teenager.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

8 hours ago, ChaosSupremeSonic said:

Yeah, telling me "I don't like it" isn't exactly convincing nor does it refute my point. Comes off as more self-absorbed to be honest.

The fuck?

Come on man, I know you mean well, but someone saying they dont like something isnt really coming off as self abosorbed,

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

2 hours ago, Diogenes said:

So self-absorbed of me, to post an opinion in the opinion topic.

More like it is self-absorbed to think your opinion is the only one that should matter.

Never thought you'd be one to pull the "it's my opinion" card like that means anything.

 

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So these unnamed, unspecified masses' opinion matters?

Yes, they do. But did I ever say yours didn't? You and I are one out of many of these people on the internet. Just saying "I don't like it" isn't exactly much of a counterpoint to anyone out there that does like it anymore than the opposite opinion.

 

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Or maybe it does, if it's a successor to Sonic games like ShtH and '06, and continuing the series' tradition of not knowing a damn thing about how to tell a story.

I'm sorry, but this is where your bias steamroller gets ridiculous. Granted, Freedom Planet does have flaws in padding, length, and unexplained gaps between, but comparing it to the terrible likes of ShTH and Sonic 06 and saying it doesn't know how to tell a story is nonsense considering this is FP's first entry as a series to build a world and make a story around it while ShTH and Sonic 06 already had a long established history behind them with previous entries we already knew about. It's like you're comparing a new franchise's first episode to an older one's seventh and eigth episodes - i don't care if you don't like it, but that's a huge gap between the two to make.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

^ Doesnt that seem a bit egotistical of you though? 

[PandoloFox]

[Clewis]

9 hours ago, ChaosSupremeSonic said:

Is that actually what he said? Because I don't see how stating "some level of narrative to care" means having little of it would be bad, and frankly games like Generations barely had even that compared to the likes of Rayman.

Yes, I'm pretty sure that's what he was implying. Kuzu was reflecting on Monkey Switch's proposition of a Sonic game that featured no dialog and very little plot, in which he doesn't think a game like that "would go over very well" since a number of people are expecting "some level of narrative to care". Cue Rayman example yadda yadda...

Now if he's talking about Sonic fans being bothered by a lack of plot, that would really have to be on a case-by-case basis. I personally wouldn't be bothered, and I know a lot of other people who wouldn't be miffed at this being the case, but at the same time I'm aware that a large portion of SSMB members actually care about the writing in Sonic games, so I know they're going to be vocal about their disappointment even if the given gameplay is outstanding.

If he's referring to how the general public would react then I don't think that's going to be much of an issue, since Rayman Origins is sort of along the same lines of Monkey Switch's proposition and obviously not many people were too bothered by its lack of plot considering the large amount of high grades it received.

And while I'm aware that the Rayman franchise as a whole features some elements of world-building, I was speaking specifically about Rayman Origins, which I'll assume you've never played since it actually had less narrative focus than Generations.

[PandoloFox]

Sorry about that, ran into some problems. fixed it now.

Anyway, what i wanted to say is that when it comes to rayman you will have to factor in other reasons for why it did well. Rayman had been gone for quite some time ( outside of ravin rabbids ). So this IP getting back brought nostalgic traffic ( my guess, so not a certainty ). With rayman legends they went even more minimalistic with its story and that game didnt do as well as rayman origins.

[Diogenes]

31 minutes ago, ChaosSupremeSonic said:

More like it is self-absorbed to think your opinion is the only one that should matter.

And you're getting this from what, exactly? We were talking about FP's story, I gave my clearly-labeled personal opinion on it.

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Never thought you'd be one to pull the "it's my opinion" card like that means anything.

It means exactly what it always means, that I was stating my opinion, the exact reason this thread exists. You're the one reading crazy shit into this.

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Yes, they do. But did I ever say yours didn't?

May as well have, rushing to that "self-absorbed" shit the second I say anything. Like, what is that, other than trying to dismiss my opinion?

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I'm sorry, but this is where your bias steamroller gets ridiculous. Granted, Freedom Planet does have flaws in padding, length, and unexplained gaps between, but comparing it to the terrible likes of ShTH and Sonic 06 and saying it doesn't know how to tell a story is nonsense considering this is FP's first entry as a series to build a world and make a story around it while ShTH and Sonic 06 already had a long established history behind them with previous entries we already knew about. It's like you're comparing a new franchise's first episode to an older one's seventh and eigth episodes - i don't care if you don't like it, but that's a huge gap between the two to make.

First entry or not it failed to engage me on literally any level. It never succeeded in making me care about its characters, it never succeeded in making me care about its world, it never succeeded in making me care about the immediate events, it never succeeded at making me care about what larger context it might fit into. It's trash from start to finish, same as ShtH and '06's stories, and how many "episodes" in they are doesn't make the slightest bit of difference.

[Nepenthe]

Yeah, I'm gonna have to say it's fair game to refute opinionated statements with opinionated statements, and calling people self-absorbed for what is basic conversation is random as shit. Back off on that.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

I do aplogise as well and will back off

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Hang on, let me clarify some things because there seems to be a misunderstanding.

 

1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

And you're getting this from what, exactly? We were talking about FP's story, I gave my clearly-labeled personal opinion on it.

From the fact that I was actually just talking about the general audience at first, using FP as an example of a game people love and had a large narrative focus as opposed to Rayman Origins, and saying narrative amount doesn't exactly matter that much regarding quality.

You'll notice I wasn't talking about my opinion on the game or any specific person, just general people (mainly those who liked it like those who liked Rayman Origins) whereas you came in and only talked about your view alone and made a diatribe about how you hated it. Hence my statement towards you.

It means exactly what it always means, that I was stating my opinion, the exact reason this thread exists. You're the one reading crazy shit into this.

And as I said before, it's not the only one that matters as far as what I was talking about. 

May as well have, rushing to that "self-absorbed" shit the second I say anything. Like, what is that, other than trying to dismiss my opinion?

Saying that there are differing thoughts out there as opposed to yours alone, as I already told you? If you think that was dismissal, then I think you're the one reading something else out of it. Especially when I never said your opinion didn't matter. Don't know how that was implied unless I said something poorly.

First entry or not it failed to engage me on literally any level.

Well plenty if others found it charming. Sorry to hear it failed for you, but each to their own.

[Diogenes]

20 minutes ago, ChaosSupremeSonic said:

You'll notice I wasn't talking about my opinion on the game or any specific person, just general people (mainly those who liked it like those who liked Rayman Origins) whereas you came in and only talked about your view alone and made a diatribe about how you hated it. Hence my statement towards you.

A "diatribe" of a whole one sentence saying I didn't like it. Would it have been better if I pretended to talk for an unspecified group of people?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

54 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

A "diatribe" of a whole one sentence saying I didn't like it. Would it have been better if I pretended to talk for an unspecified group of people?

I wouldn't mind. Why? Not like people weren't doing that when this thing started.

[Haalyle]

5 hours ago, TwoTailedHero said:

I actually really like Roger Craig Smith's take on Sonic. Sonic is nearly 25, and I think RCS does a great job.

Completely agree. Smith has grown on me heaps. I think he does an excellent job.

[Multikaris]

@Diogenes

Action Henk's story is even worse than Shattered Crystal or Generations, and it doesn't even have good character design, level design, or visual design.

Also, I like most of Penders's work.

[Ether Penguin]

I'll start with a popular opinion: Knuckles is just about the worst handled character with his constant dumbing down. He had more of a 'cool guy' vibe in the Adventure 2 which while hardly anything deep or anything beyond an archetype, is still better than the all brawn no brains take. I always thought a neat take on the character would be not an intellectual by any means but well versed in ancient cultures and lore.

Now a big unpopular opinion. I thought Lost World was better game than Colors or really all three boost games. The boost style doesn't appeal to me, the level design is reduced to speed corridors and generic 2D platforming segments that grossly contrast each other. Lost World was not a good game. I haven't replayed any of these four games, but Lost World was nonetheless the one I got the most enjoyment out of. It was at least interesting if mediocre to me. I'd still say the platforming was generic but it felt more focused and unified in design for the most part. The parkour was pretty terrible though, I'll admit that. I also liked how Eggman was handled in the story.

Oh, I also really like Silver and think telekinesis mixed with high speeds could provide a nice take on Sonic's gameplay if they made him more like how he is in cut scenes and the Generations boss battle.

[pocket]

Going to echo that I think Boom Knuckles is not better than his game counterpart, which seems to be the a popular opinion these days. I'll grant you that ever since Sonic Heroes he's become pretty boring and has no reason to get involved in the stories. And I don't mind the him being a bit slow and gullible ( better than the typical "always cool" rival type characters ). But they took it too far in Sonic Boom, and severing all ties to the master emerald and the knuckles clan kind of takes away from  what I found interesting about him.

Also, while I don't mind dumb humor characters, I feel like they take it too far in Sonic Boom, and Knuckles ends up being one of the least funny things about the show. 

[FriendBot]

4 minutes ago, pocket said:

Going to echo that I think Boom Knuckles is not better than his game counterpart, which seems to be the a popular opinion these days. I'll grant you that ever since Sonic Heroes he's become pretty boring and has no reason to get involved in the stories. And I don't mind the him being a bit slow and gullible ( better than the typical "always cool" rival type characters ). But they took it too far in Sonic Boom, and severing all ties to the master emerald and the knuckles clan kind of takes away from  what I found interesting about him.

Also, while I don't mind dumb humor characters, I feel like they take it too far in Sonic Boom, and Knuckles ends up being one of the least funny things about the show. 

Thing is Sonic Boom is a clean slate, it's its own continuity. Freiberger and the rest of the Boom team can pretty much do whatever they want with the show since it has no ties with the main canon and the primary goal for the Boom cartoon is to be a comedy, so action/adventure becomes secondary. So Boom Knux may look like Knuckles but he isn't the same Knuckles in the main series, he is his own Knuckles. that makes sense, i think?

Current Archie Knuckles is pretty much what Main Series Knuckles should've been.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I may not like Boom Knuckles for many of the same reasons everyone else doesn't, but I will defend that it's its own continuity and should be treated as such. Criticizing his characterization and background for not being like the Main Series isn't exactly right considering that's was the whole point, and I don't think ignoring that detail does anyone's points any favor.

You can call him the cliche dumb guy, you can call him bland, whatever, but let's at least acknowledge that it's a different Knuckles - everyone did just that in the Sonic OVA where Knuckles also wasn't a guardian of the Master Emerald, Angel Island, and nothing about his ancient Echidna history was brought up, and many people liked it anyway. So I think we can do the same here.

[Ether Penguin]

I apologize to the two above posters, but I really disagree with that logic. I have not watched an episode of Boom nor am I really interested in doing so, as such I planned on steering clear of any Boom discussions. Please don't mistake this Boom bashing, I just want to hit on the idea of it being okay to because it of a different continuity.

Long before copyright laws and the bad side of the IP industry, we all know many writers would you characters and other works and build on top of them. Milton, one of the greatest writers of the English language, is notable for his controversial portrayal of Satan in Paradise Lost as well as Greek deities for instances using Zephyr to represent mirth in his earlier pastoral poetry. It's continued to today for public domain characters such as Derek Jarmin's use of Shakespeare's Ariel in his film 'Jubilee'. It's also the basis for the literary device, the invocation of the muse, in which it was usually important which deity or figure the poet chose to invoke. All these characters were chosen because of the weight they carry with them and how the audience would recognize them. They banked on the audience being familiar with the characters and their stories and from there they could grow off of them or utilize the characters in new light.

I see it as irresponsible of a writer to use a pre-established character and just do whatever with no regard to expectations of what the character represents and behaves. Many authors have used classical characters and inverted the ideas around them. Going back to Jarmen, he would use Ariel again when he did his own version of the Tempest where he had a much younger Prospero, a traditionally old man character, acting in a Benedict Cumberbatch before Benedict Cumberbatch way. Characters of have been reused and portrayed as bad where they were formally good, or the reverse of that (Wicked/One way to read Paradise Lost), or with different ages and such but the changes are artistic choices that still rely on the audience knowing how the character is suppose to act to make since of it. Just changing a character for no reason other than wanting to do you own thing is anything but artistic and begs of the question of why not just make an original story/setting altogether.

Furthermore, the casual audience and younger kids aren't going to always know about different continuities. To a six year old kid it's just Knuckles. They don't read interviews or know what's going on behind scenes, Knuckles is Knuckles. When you look at people who are upset to see characters act differently for know reason in movie adaptions from books or superhero characters behaving different in all these DC/Marvel films (Mandarin for instance), I think they have valid reasons to be upset despite being a different continuity. Heck, even Mandarin had an excuse. One of the main guys behind Iron Man wanted a realistic setting without mysticism and I believe also expressed discomfort at the idea of his version of Iron Man and Thor being in a movie together. That was an artistic choice to make the Mandarin different. But here there doesn't seem much reason for a change at all. You could also say dumb muscle guy is bad character writing in any scenario regardless of being an established character or not.

Really not trying to be mean to any of you guys. I fully respect your thoughts on the matter, I just see it a little different. And bare in mind I have no first hand experience with Boom Knuckles so I may be wrong about the lack of an artistic decision to change him but that doesn't change my feelings on a separate continuity being an excuse to do whatever with a character.