Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

25 minutes ago, Ether Penguin said:

Really not trying to be mean to any of you guys. I fully respect your thoughts on the matter, I just see it a little different. And bare in mind I have no first hand experience with Boom Knuckles so I may be wrong about the lack of an artistic decision to change him but that doesn't change my feelings on a separate continuity being an excuse to do whatever with a character.

Except, no one is saying it's an excuse to do whatever with a character, not in the way you're trying to frame it. Like really, I dislike Boom and it's portrayal of Knuckles for practically the same reasons anyone else does, practically the same reasons you're steering clear of it. But here's the thing: this isn't any different to what has been done previously in the franchise with alternate settings.

The whole point is that this is Knuckles, looks a little different, acts somewhat different, but has similar features as the old Knuckles and he's in a new world. It's practically what they did to Knuckles in the OVA where he's not the same Knuckles as the Main Series, or heck how they've handled Sonic as a sort of Looney Tunes-esque character, to a cartoony guerrilla fighter in SatAM, and a prince in Sonic Underground (which has a mixed reception, and is ironically where they brought Knuckles's game traits compared to the previous entries). Boom in itself, the way it choose to go a different route with the characters, doesn't violate anything that wasn't already done before in previous alternate settings of the franchise. That's the point that needs to be understood, because if Boom shouldn't have been allowed to do what it's done, then neither should the other settings have - sure you can dislike Boom Knuckles, but unless you're going to do that for other portrayals criticizing it for being different flies in the face of the portrayals like the OVA which also treats Knuckles differently.

[Toa Axis]

I don't think that Black Knight's soundtrack is that good, for the most part. It it isn't really because any of it is abjectly bad (aside from Fight the Knight, yuck), but because a lot of the tracks, to me, lack an identity, which I know is super nebulous and probably won't tell anyone much.

I just think that most of the tracks blend together into a conglomerate of hard-rock without any memorable melodies or tunes *barring a few. Even though it isn't new to the series, I feel like previous entries in the series never relied on the hard-rock this much before, and it's not even a genre I dislike.

I'm REALLY bad at explaining the technical merits of music beyond a surface level, so I'm sorry if this came across as a jumbled mess of repeated statements and unclear reasonings. Just thought I should get this off my chest.

*I think the menu themes, Misty Lake, Dragonslayer, Shrouded Forest, Great Megalith, Molten Mine, and With Me (in all its forms) are all great by the way.

[Ether Penguin]

17 minutes ago, ChaosSupremeSonic said:

Except, no one is saying it's an excuse to do whatever with a character, not in the way you're trying to frame it. Like really, I dislike Boom and it's portrayal of Knuckles for practically the same reasons anyone else does, practically the same reasons you're steering clear of it. But here's the thing: this isn't any different to what has been done previously in the franchise with alternate settings.

The whole point is that this is Knuckles, looks a little different, acts somewhat different, but has similar features as the old Knuckles and he's in a new world. It's practically what they did to Knuckles in the OVA where he's not the same Knuckles as the Main Series, or heck how they've handled Sonic as a sort of Looney Tunes-esque character, to a cartoony guerrilla fighter in SatAM, and a prince in Sonic Underground (which has a mixed reception, and is ironically where they brought Knuckles's game traits compared to the previous entries). Boom in itself, the way it choose to go a different route with the characters, doesn't violate anything that wasn't already done before in previous alternate settings of the franchise. That's the point that needs to be understood, because if Boom shouldn't have been allowed to do what it's done, then neither should the other settings have - sure you can dislike Boom Knuckles, but unless you're going to do that for other portrayals criticizing it for being different flies in the face of the portrayals like the OVA which also treats Knuckles differently.

I see. It seems I've misunderstood Soni's post as saying it was an excuse. I'm sorry to both of you for the misinterpretation. My problem wasn't so much about 'criticizing it for being different' as it was more about being unfaithful. I did point instances in media and literature where making a character different was respectable artistic choice. I know nothing of the OVA and remember little of the older cartoons so I can't comment much on those. It's ultimately how about how the character is handled and where they are handled well. If Sonic Boom actually went above Sonic Team's portrayal a better written Knuckles than in the games then I'd be in favor of it since it could help the character's reputation as long as it was still in character. It's been a while since I read the comics but I remember liking the way Knuckles was written there, but comics are more niche medium and reach fewer people while Boom actually has the power to shape a wider audience's perception of the character which leads to my main thing of hoping the writers use the characters responsibly. This is sort of what prompting me to make reply based on the phrase  'isn't the same knuckles' because to the casual audience it is.

[E-122-Psi]

I don't think Boom Knuckles is horrid in concept, but I wish he wasn't so one dimensionally dumb (as in incompetent loser with the least redeeming qualities over the others). Even the humour wears thin after a while. You can make dumb characters without everything about them being 'duhhhh, I'm stoooopid'.

This is the same reason I wasn't much for Chronicles Big, which for some reason is one of the more popular appearances of the character.

I admit I find both of them less irritating than Sticks however.

 

While I feel Adventure 1 is a way better game than Next Gen, I do think the latter used more potential out of some of the former's concepts and gimmicks, eg. the larger Adventure Fields with more developed missions, the levels' branching pathways for different characters that feel more evenly and inventively constructed. It felt a bit like the base idea more fully realised, even if it added a ton of flaws and poor gimmicks on top of it.

[Akessel92]

14 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

I don't think Boom Knuckles is horrid in concept, but I wish he wasn't so one dimensionally dumb (as in incompetent loser with the least redeeming qualities over the others). Even the humour wears thin after a while. You can make dumb characters without everything about them being 'duhhhh, I'm stoooopid'.

This is the same reason I wasn't much for Chronicles Big, which for some reason is one of the more popular appearances of the character.

I admit I find both of them less irritating than Sticks however.

 

While I feel Adventure 1 is a way better game than Next Gen, I do think the latter used more potential out of some of the former's concepts and gimmicks, eg. the larger Adventure Fields with more developed missions, the levels' branching pathways for different characters that feel more evenly and inventively constructed.

Yeah but the problem with 06's hub world is that they are a pain to travel across quickly with certain characters.

Also, am I the only one who thinks current Archie Eggman is still deserves the "decent" world tyrant villain role? 

[Singapore Sling]

On 1/5/2016 at 4:19 PM, Ether Penguin said:

 

Furthermore, the casual audience and younger kids aren't going to always know about different continuities. To a six year old kid it's just Knuckles. They don't read interviews or know what's going on behind scenes, Knuckles is Knuckles

As a child I could tell the difference between Space Ghost and Dino Boy and Space Ghost Coast to Coast and, while I loved them together, could discern that they were two different things. You're full of it. 

[Dr. Crusher]

Unpopular opinion: Overall, I don't think Shiro Maekawa's work on the series is all it's cracked up to be.

I realise that I might be going for a sacred cow as it were given the high pedestal that he's put on, but this has been on my mind for a while. I'm not saying that his work is bad, I'm just saying that his work for the most part doesn't do much for me personally. I just find most of it rather boring.

[Kuzu]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Crusher said:

Unpopular opinion: Overall, I don't think Shiro Maekawa's work on the series is all it's cracked up to be.

I realise that I might be going for a sacred cow as it were given the high pedestal that he's put on, but this has been on my mind for a while. I'm not saying that his work is bad, I'm just saying that his work for the most part doesn't do much for me personally. I just find most of it rather boring.

Who's this guy again?

[Briraka]

26 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Who's this guy again?

The guy behind SA2 and the storybook games. I think he might of had a hand in 06, too if I recall correctly.

As for what I think of Makeawa's work, it's alright, but not my preferred direction for Sonic stories. He writes Sonic like an anime where most of the focus is on action scenes to the point where it gets kinda blah. I'd rather have something that goes in a more Pixar or Ratchet & Clank direction.

[Idon'tcare]

Funny, as a Sonamy fan people are generally jumping down my throat to watch Sonic Boom simply based on how much shipping they find in that show, sadly, for many reasons already stated in this thread I just can't get into it. The whole comedy gag no deep stories stuff just doesn't interest me, on the other I don't want something that gets killed in drama and action. I like the idea they had for this, its just... I personally feel it could have been done a lot better in the script writing department without losing its appeal to the kids.

Plus Sticks, ung, now there's a character I'd wish would just shut up.

[FriendBot]

4 hours ago, Dr. Crusher said:

Unpopular opinion: Overall, I don't think Shiro Maekawa's work on the series is all it's cracked up to be.

I realise that I might be going for a sacred cow as it were given the high pedestal that he's put on, but this has been on my mind for a while. I'm not saying that his work is bad, I'm just saying that his work for the most part doesn't do much for me personally. I just find most of it rather boring.

Actually, I'm with ya on this.

While Shiro is a nice writer, I don't personally feel that his writing is what the I want from the series as a common ground for Sonic stories. I love me some animu stuff but that stuff can get old but I do think Shiro hit gold with the Storybook games, the nice amount of action, drama and character moments is what I personally feel is what a main series Sonic story should offer. 

Sonic Unleashed's story is kind of what I would like to see most main series Sonic stories should be, quirky but serious. The in-between in tone just feels right for a Sonic story IMO. But of course, changing up the tone like a bit more silly (for stuff like Sonic Boom) or a bit more grim (a Team Dark spinoff game can be appropriate) is something I'm down for as well.

 

[Your Vest Friend]

He also wrote the translation of Colours and Generations for the portable counterparts, didn't he? In those scenarios, I preferred his writing over the Wii version because I prefer the more direct tone instead of it being bogged down by those kind of jokes, but Generations HD  reigned in the writing so much that there's not really a difference.

[FriendBot]

2 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

He also wrote the translation of Colours and Generations for the portable counterparts, didn't he? In those scenarios, I preferred his writing over the Wii version because I prefer the more direct tone instead of it being bogged down by those kind of jokes, but Generations HD  reigned in the writing so much that there's not really a difference.

Yeah, I much greatly preferred the writing in Colors DS than its Wii counterpart. It's a fairly light-hearted story but it's not bogged down with pretty lame jokes and it gave some insight of the Wisps themselves, that's pretty sweet!

Though I do love those Eggman PA announcements in the Wii version, Pontaff sure loves to do that type of humor.

[Yoko/葉子]

I have a theory about Chaos and one for the Egg Viper.

His name comes from the Greek nothingness personified, his serpent-like design is a nod to Mexican god Quetzalcoatl, as might be the influence for the Egg Viper. Quetzalcoatl was also known as a water god.

Though, seeing as Chaos could morph, this might be a reference to the Japanese god Seiryu. Seiryu was one of the four divine beasts, a blue or green dragon. He could shapeshift. Seeing as the snake is often associated with the dragon in Japan and other countries, this might have influenced the idea for Chaos. Seiryu was even known to morph into a human and become a father of some humans. Another possible hint at his humanoid earlier forms. Seiryu was an ocean god.

[shdowhunt60]

On 1/6/2016 at 11:01 PM, Soni said:

Actually, I'm with ya on this.

While Shiro is a nice writer, I don't personally feel that his writing is what the I want from the series as a common ground for Sonic stories. I love me some animu stuff but that stuff can get old but I do think Shiro hit gold with the Storybook games, the nice amount of action, drama and character moments is what I personally feel is what a main series Sonic story should offer. 

Sonic Unleashed's story is kind of what I would like to see most main series Sonic stories should be, quirky but serious. The in-between in tone just feels right for a Sonic story IMO. But of course, changing up the tone like a bit more silly (for stuff like Sonic Boom) or a bit more grim (a Team Dark spinoff game can be appropriate) is something I'm down for as well.

 

And I have to disagree with this. I spent %95 of Unleashed's cutscenes bored. Say what you will about Maekawa, even at his absolute worst in 06, he still knows how to keep a story going. Unleashed literally plays out all of its plot elements in the beginning, leaving nothing for the story to develop for the next hours worth of cutscenes. Unleashed was a trend-setter for an absolutely terrible trend in how Sonic stories would be handled for years to come, where most of the "story" is just standing around and giving exposition.

I also fail to see how Unleashed supposedly has this balance I see people espousing either. You have cutscenes where Sonic and Chip are goofing around, and you have cutscenes where people are expositioning about how the world is going to inevitably end, and how that sucks. This isn't balance at all, the two things are completely divorced from each other, they almost have nothing to do with each other. It feels more like something like The Bucket List, where everyone's goofing off, because they're going to die in the end. How is that balanced? That's bleak as all hell.

Again, Maekawa for all his faults, KNEW how to actually balance and handle how the tone of the story develops. That's why Sonic Adventure 2, Secret Rings, and Black Knight always begin rather lighthearted and humorous, before the stakes are set in place, and it all becomes a race against time. There's buildup to all the dramatic stuff. It's not  indecisively switching back and forth between whether or not it wants to be funny or not, there's legitimate purpose to how he handles it.

I'm not saying that Maekawa is absolutely perfect either. While Maekawa is fantastic at keeping the plot moving, his stories always seem to be host to rather dubious plotting elements. We all know that the whole Gerald Robotnik thing was questionable in SA2, and that's not going into Sonic 06's mess. But I would rather have another Maekawa story than anything like Unleashed, because at least he can write an engaging story. Even if it's engagingly stupid.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Opinion: Even though Im not the fan in the world of this game, I find Sonic Advance to be more the true Sonic 4 then Sonic 4 Ep 1 and 2 will ever be.

For me, if I want a true and unique classic-styled gameplay experiance, I would play this game. It has the same gameplay we all know and love built from the ground up, no relience on iconics such as Green Hill Zone.... yes the first zone is LIKE a Green Hill Zone but it is different and the game requires the player to have the right skills the finish the game. It also has replay ablities with its character selection so you can either chose to go the normal (Sonic), easy (Tails) or the more difficult way (Amy and maybe Knuckles). 

 

[shdowhunt60]

Honestly, what made Sonic Advance the "true" Sonic 4 for me was the fact that it tried. It was ambitious. It was adventurous. It wasn't a cynical attempt to emulate a bygone era of games, by reiterating checker-hilled zones and crappy chiptunes. It was a legitimate attempt at doing something new and exciting.

I'm not a fan of it either. I hate the level design with a fiery passion, what with rolling down hills into spiketraps, and that DAMNED rocket, but I won't deny that it certainly made me yearn for the halcyon days of DIMPS when it was an upstart little studio that tried to keep pace with Sonic Team in presenting something worth giving a damn about.

[Idon'tcare]

Lately I've been thinking about Marine the Raccoon thanks to that Sticks or Marine thread that was started, and I've found myself thinking a lot about the way the comic and fandom parts of the franchises have decided to pair up Marine and Blaze into a best friends forever team ala Sonic and Tails. Personally I find it hard to accept that a go happy adventurous girl like Marine would put up with a wet blanket like Blaze. Likewise I find it hard as hell to see how Blaze would put up with Marine's antics for too long without yelling at her or wanting her to go away. Given how Sonic Rush played out I didn't really see Blaze or Marine even forming something resembling a friendship.

I guess in my mind, it would have made more sense if they hard parted ways after Sonic Rush with Marine finally going out to live her grand sea adventures while Blaze returns to her royal duties.

 

10 hours ago, shdowhunt60 said:

Honestly, what made Sonic Advance the "true" Sonic 4 for me was the fact that it tried. It was ambitious. It was adventurous. It wasn't a cynical attempt to emulate a bygone era of games, by reiterating checker-hilled zones and crappy chiptunes. It was a legitimate attempt at doing something new and exciting.

I'm not a fan of it either. I hate the level design with a fiery passion, what with rolling down hills into spiketraps, and that DAMNED rocket, but I won't deny that it certainly made me yearn for the halcyon days of DIMPS when it was an upstart little studio that tried to keep pace with Sonic Team in presenting something worth giving a damn about.

I think it would have made more sense if they just followed the more realistic world design they had been using since Sonic Adventure and just kept it 2D for the old school fans instead of making it look like a weird fusion of Sonic 1 and 2.

Speaking of which, I wonder if Sonicteam or Dimps would ever make another pure 2D Sonic game for the new consoles or did Sonic 4's failure kill any chance of that.

 

[Diogenes]

2 hours ago, Idon'tcare said:

Lately I've been thinking about Marine the Raccoon thanks to that Sticks or Marine thread that was started, and I've found myself thinking a lot about the way the comic and fandom parts of the franchises have decided to pair up Marine and Blaze into a best friends forever team ala Sonic and Tails. Personally I find it hard to accept that a go happy adventurous girl like Marine would put up with a wet blanket like Blaze. Likewise I find it hard as hell to see how Blaze would put up with Marine's antics for too long without yelling at her or wanting her to go away. Given how Sonic Rush played out I didn't really see Blaze or Marine even forming something resembling a friendship.

I guess in my mind, it would have made more sense if they hard parted ways after Sonic Rush with Marine finally going out to live her grand sea adventures while Blaze returns to her royal duties.

I don't think they'd be quite as close as Sonic and Tails, but I can kind of see them as a sort of slightly dysfunctional parallel to them. Marine's not really the type to see Blaze as a wet blanket; I imagine her kinda dragging Blaze into things, because she's her cool strong friend who goes on adventures with her. And while Blaze is sort of dragged into it, she's not entirely unwilling, either, since they do have history together and Blaze doesn't open up to many people.

[Muscles Maximum]

I don't mind Green Hill-ish levels. Like, I know some people shit themselves at the sight of green grass and checkerboard terrain, but I've never seen what the big deal is. Those levels are a staple of the series, they're recognizable, and it's not like they're littered throughout the whole game. It's usually just confined to the first zone.

I get that people want something new, I do too, but not every game has a level like that. If it shows up every now and again, then I think it's a-okay. To be honest, I've never even thought anything of it until I've seen people bring it up on forums.

Angel Island, Palmtree Panic, Sunset Hill, Seaside Hill, Splash Hill, Windy Hill, all the hills aside, they're all fine to me. Palmtree Panic and Seaside Hill remain some of my favorite levels ever. I also thought Green Hill Zone as a secret unlockable in SA2 was one of the coolest things in a game ever, but I've only ever seen it talked about in a negative light, maybe it's because I didn't know about it when the game first came out so the novelty has worn off over the years. Even still, I can admit it might not be the easiest level to move around in, but it was pretty much exactly the original level in full 3D. It was awesome to me. It still is.

These levels are by no means my favorite level tropes or anything like that, but like I said, I don't mind when levels share the Green Hill aesthetic.

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

Opinion: even as stand-alone games, Sonic 4 (both episodes) were mediocre games at best. 

Sonic 4 Episode 1 as a classic game was a disgrace to all Sonic kind, but even as a stand alone, it was mediocre at its best. Unless you are like me, who likes to see if they can claim there cushioney throne by getting the best score in the time attack section, trying to get your lives over 1000 or is obsessed with getting all 12 achievements in the game no matter how hard you try, then it literally has no replay value.  Nothing in the game itself makes you want to replay it. There is no alternate characters, no alternate skills.... no nothing.

Episode 2 however does have SOME replay value if you count Episode Metal, but Metal Sonics story is very short and I expected him to have his own stages rather then go backwards in one stage. But yeah unless you are trying to get all the chaos emeralds or is like me, trying to shoot for the moon to beat people in the time attack section and get all the achievements in the game, there isnt much to do after you are done playing rather leave it hanging on your computer screens. Also yeah you can play as Tails but most people want to play as Tails by himself and not be forced to use Sonic for team actions. Id rather just play as Sonic at this point because.... nothing really changed.

When it comes to passion, Episode 1 clearly lacks it. I mean, Lost Labyrinth is my favorite and so is Mad Gear, but when you play the earlier games, then you start to see that these zones were clearly ripped off just to appeal to peoples nostalgia. Even in visual design, it just seems rushed. Looking at Splash Hill Zone... ugh. So much plastic grass I cant. Even Sonic 1 had a balance when it came to there Green Hill Zone. This goes for other zones in the game as well.

Episode 2 clearly surpassed this as the zones were beautiful. However the level design at its best were eh.  Do not even get me started on that hell hole called "Oil Desert Zone", it felt like Dusty Desert and Crisis City had a baby and this was the final product. Most stages are centered around being force to use the hover wis.... I mean Tails to get across certian paths. Actually the whole game was centered around teamwork done wrong. Level designs must not need to force you to use team certain actions in the form is a giant floating TV screen that says "yo asshole, yeah you! use Tails here you fucking dipshit!".

All and all these games as stand alones were mediocre games at there core. I mean Episode 2 has better gameplay, well if you eliminate using the Tails wisp as a problem, and it had better zones, Death Egg m2k rocked in my opinion. Episode 1 was my first Sonic 2D game into the series so dare I sit here and say this game is iconic for me. It is the truth. But when you step back and look at both of them, these games are hardly anything extraordinary compared to what Dimps has been able to pull off in the past. 

[Idon'tcare]

Episode one and two were rush jobs, there is simply no doubt about it. Both of them was done in what, a years time tops for each, while Dimps was also working on the 2D adaption of generations and Lost world.

Clearly Sonic 4 was designed solely to cash in on Sonic fans hoping that their advice and comments would help shape a perfect 2D Sonic for the modern times at last. But as usual, SEGA gave everyone the middle finger while pocketing our hard earned cash on their way out the door, the most insulting thing about it being that they got away with that stunt twice.

[WakanoBaka]

Opinion: There are no bad Sonic games(not counting 06, R or Boom).

I personally believe this, and have been shat on for it....

 

[Rey Skywalker-Ren]

On 1/18/2016 at 3:04 PM, Idon'tcare said:

Episode one and two were rush jobs, there is simply no doubt about it. Both of them was done in what, a years time tops for each, while Dimps was also working on the 2D adaption of generations and Lost world.

Clearly Sonic 4 was designed solely to cash in on Sonic fans hoping that their advice and comments would help shape a perfect 2D Sonic for the modern times at last. But as usual, SEGA gave everyone the middle finger while pocketing our hard earned cash on their way out the door, the most insulting thing about it being that they got away with that stunt twice.

Yep. When you take a step back, the game itself is a massive insult to classic Sonic fans and to 2D Sonic games alike. 

[Toa Axis]

16 minutes ago, WakanoBaka said:

Opinion: There are no bad Sonic games(not counting 06, R or Boom).

I personally believe this, and have been shat on for it....

 

Some people just have an extremely hard time accepting opinions that differ from the norm. Wish I could knock some sense into them sometimes.