Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, Dizcrybe said:

It's literally no worse than your average crappy licensed cartoon game. What makes it stand out as being so much worse compared to, say, that one Rugrats game on the PS1, or that GBA Totally Spies game?

That's what I'm saying, though. Godawful and creatively bankrupt. If it was just some cheap cartoon adaptation or a new IP, it wouldn't be any more noteworthy than those games, just another shitty platformer among shitty platformers. But being a descendant of what used to be one of the biggest and most successful names in gaming brings more attention to it, positive and negative.

[Dizcrybe]

3 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

That's what I'm saying, though. Godawful and creatively bankrupt. If it was just some cheap cartoon adaptation or a new IP, it wouldn't be any more noteworthy than those games, just another shitty platformer among shitty platformers. But being a descendant of what used to be one of the biggest and most successful names in gaming brings more attention to it, positive and negative.

But here's what I don't understand, though; it's not like bad Sonic games are new to people. You ask any non-Sonic gamer, they'll tell you Sonic's been terrible for years. And it's not like the franchise has been putting a long stream of consistently good games before RoL came out. All we had was Gens or Colors, that's it. Then Lost World came out to a mixed reception at best. So why in the hell RoL's badness so notable?

[Diogenes]

Well, it's even more awful than most Sonic games? It's not your ordinary everyday bad Sonic game, it's down there with '06. Plus it was supposed to be a major part of this big new continuity, a whole new take on Sonic to break away from all the shit of the last decade-plus, and then it pulls a Hindenburg right out of the gate.

[Pixel]

Gotta disagree with people defending Sonic 06's inclusion in Generations. The game was fucking awful and nearly killed Sonic for good, hardly something that should be in a celebratory anniversary title. The fact it unironically appears in a title celebrating Sonic's history is both astounding and hilariously awkward 

The idea that it *has* to be included because of its marketing and mainline significance is also wrong. I'd say that it deserves to be disqualified merely on account that it is one of the worst games of all time. Generations isn't supposed to be a historical chronicle of the series, but a celebration. For this reason, Generations didn't need to rigidly stick to including all mainline titles, especially one as awful as 06.

It's even more galling that Sonic 06 got in but Sonic 3 didn't. Yes, technically Sonic 3 and Knuckles is one game, but I'd far rather the best game in the series got one more representation than the worst game in the franchise be included.

4 levels from Glorious Classic Sonic

3 from Dreamcast 

2 from Modern

Makes sense to me.

Or rather

4 Glorious Classic 

2 Dreamcast (the Adventures)

3 Modern, with Heroes in its correct place.

[StaticMania]

Yep, Sonic Nex Gen is pretty much "Awful the anti-christ"...and there's nothing more horrible than not including it in the game. Defense is grounded, but weak. Anything could've taken its place, but pesky bias can't get in the way of balanced game design.

[Cheawn]

Well, they did make new acts for Crisis City, that is a ton better than the old version. So in some ways, Sonic Generations can be seen as fixing one of Sonic 06's greatest levels. (not that a great 06 level is actually any good.)

[Dizcrybe]

On 12/15/2016 at 5:04 PM, Diogenes said:

Well, it's even more awful than most Sonic games? It's not your ordinary everyday bad Sonic game, it's down there with '06. Plus it was supposed to be a major part of this big new continuity, a whole new take on Sonic to break away from all the shit of the last decade-plus, and then it pulls a Hindenburg right out of the gate.

RoL is, at worst, glitchy, boring, and repetitive. 06, on top of all that, was next to unplayable at points.

These comparisons to 06 are exactly what I'm talking about. I saw some people even compare Lost World to 06. If that's what we're gonna do with every mediocre Sonic game from now on is compare it to 06, it's just gonna lose whatever meaning it still has.

[Diogenes]

5 minutes ago, Dizcrybe said:

RoL is, at worst, glitchy, boring, and repetitive. 06, on top of all that, was next to unplayable at points.

These comparisons to 06 are exactly what I'm talking about. I saw some people even compare Lost World to 06. If that's what we're gonna do with every mediocre Sonic game from now on is compare it to 06, it's just gonna lose whatever meaning it still has.

Whether you think RoL is on the same tier as '06 or not, it's still inexcusably bad, and I see no reason to quibble over exactly which circle of hell they deserve. Both games are garbage, so I still don't see how people's reactions to RoL are unwarranted.

[Dizcrybe]

We're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this, then. I still stand by my statement that the reactions were grossly exaggerated, like customers at a restaurant who were served poor-tasting food but acted as if they'd been given actual human feces.

I'm not here to tell people how to react, but I'm not gonna pretend like I don't think the reactions are overblown.

[Yoko/葉子]

Unpopular: I'd love to see another Death Egg Robot, but with the mustache being a weapon. The Chaotix should have their own music game and I like the New York cast, the best, overall. I should, Jay Snyder/Dan Green and Bella Hudson/Erica Schroeder are my voice coaches. Mephiles reminds me of surreal wackiness, such as Alice in Wonderland, Bo-BoBo, Warioware and others, especially if you watch his little dance, when he's your shadow, in the first fight. Cream needs her own spin-off for small kids. 

[Singapore Sling]

On 12/16/2016 at 11:31 PM, Pixel said:

Gotta disagree with people defending Sonic 06's inclusion in Generations. The game was fucking awful and nearly killed Sonic for good, hardly something that should be in a celebratory anniversary title.

Too bad Crisis City is rad as shit.

I also find the notion of dismissing or ignoring something because it's "bad" to be pretty silly. Particularly in a franchise like Sonic where, let's face it, the whole thing is fairly silly. I'd rather a series make use of its elements, rather than trying to ignore some and convince me it was always its, likely skewed and coldly market tested to appeal to neckbeards, image of quality.

There're aspects of Sonic I hate I wouldn't want ignored if they felt there was a good reason to return to them. Gerald being tied to Gizoids is fucking stupid, but it's no reason someone can't take that and make something cool out of it if they wanted.

[PaulyBFromDa303]

Just Sayin

 

06 DID bring us Silver. One of the now mainstay characters in the franchise. Too historic to NOT include in Generations

[Fr0zenanus]

-i don't like Classic Sonic's character design, i don't like his potbelly, or short limbs. the black eyes leave an impression of indifference at best. the only thing i like about it is the anime segments in Sonic CD, and the airbrush illustrations. 

-as an adventure-era fan, i don't want an "giant monster final boss fight" tone, anymore because it's overplayed out. but at the same time. i don't want an classic tone, or colors-era comedy tone, i want something that's thought-up outside the box. something like an lewd weebish fanservice jrpg tone. 

[JezMM]

Here's a maybe unpopular opinion of relevance to this little chain of Crisis City in Generations discussion:

I don't think the Modern Crisis City stage did the original justice.  It was as fun as all the other stages, but I felt it missed a lot of memorable moments from the original level, choosing to remake it into a very lava-themed stage, which isn't really what it was originally at all.  This wasn't a bad direction for it AT ALL, to clarify, but the level overall feels a bit short, 2D focused, and I felt the lack of boarding section or wind tunnel... thing section made it feel like an incomplete recreation.  I guess the final section of Act 1 is meant to reference the wind stuff but it was a very different (if very appreciated, love that stage end psyche) take on it.

 

MUSICALLY though, mmf, where's that A-OK reaction image from Emperor's New Groove.  It's the only stage in Generations I can't choose a favourite between Act 1 and 2 at all, they're both so gorgeous.

 

(For the record, I'm fine with them including it in Generations but only purely on an obsessive level where I like the orderlyness of three stages from each era - if that was the format they were gonna go with, 2006, Unleashed and Colours feel like the correct games, rather than awkwardly replacing 2006 with just ONE of the storybook games etc).

[FantasticMrRobb]

On 12/29/2016 at 4:01 PM, JezMM said:

Here's a maybe unpopular opinion of relevance to this little chain of Crisis City in Generations discussion:

I don't think the Modern Crisis City stage did the original justice.  It was as fun as all the other stages, but I felt it missed a lot of memorable moments from the original level, choosing to remake it into a very lava-themed stage, which isn't really what it was originally at all.  This wasn't a bad direction for it AT ALL, to clarify, but the level overall feels a bit short, 2D focused, and I felt the lack of boarding section or wind tunnel... thing section made it feel like an incomplete recreation.  I guess the final section of Act 1 is meant to reference the wind stuff but it was a very different (if very appreciated, love that stage end psyche) take on it.

To be fair, wouldn't any other version of Crisis City that wasn't the bug filled original give justice just for the fact that it isn't the original? Kidding, of course.

Also, wouldn't it be fair to add a little more lava in the stage because of Flame Core still being in the "future" of '06? Since you play Flame Core right after Crisis City, it's like they just kinda threw in some parts of both stages.

And the wind tunnel is in Crisis City, but the Classic version, but I know we're talking about the Modern so...

Oh wait, wasn't there a wind tunnel section right at the end of the stage? When you're dodging shots from the fiery tornado?

Why yes, yes there was. But it was pretty different from the original, didn't even really effect your game play.

[JezMM]

2 hours ago, FantasticMrRobb said:

To be fair, wouldn't any other version of Crisis City that wasn't the bug filled original give justice just for the fact that it isn't the original? Kidding, of course.

Also, wouldn't it be fair to add a little more lava in the stage because of Flame Core still being in the "future" of '06? Since you play Flame Core right after Crisis City, it's like they just kinda threw in some parts of both stages.

And the wind tunnel is in Crisis City, but the Classic version, but I know we're talking about the Modern so...

Oh wait, wasn't there a wind tunnel section right at the end of the stage? When you're dodging shots from the fiery tornado?

Why yes, yes there was. But it was pretty different from the original, didn't even really effect your game play.

Oh yeah, had no issue with all the extra lava, it's akin to how they turned Seaside Hill into a water stage, again, a fine choice.  I was just mentioning it as a thing that was very different from the original, not one I had issue with.

I guess the Wind Tunnel thing didn't feel like it without the thing off you zooming past all the buildings in the background, but I guess I have to concede the act of jumping around on wind-toss debris was represented in one act.

The fiery tornado I figured was meant to be a twist on the original stage's Act 4, but it was just so super short and undramatic compared to the original presentation.  I wish it was just a touch longer, and escaping from the tornado to a safe spot feels more "right" than running towards it and the goal just... being there in front of it at which point it somehow no longer poses a threat.

Again, all of this is just nitpicks, my main issue was the abundance of 2D and the lack of boarding section.

[Yoko/葉子]

Unpopular: As much as I dislike 06 and ShTH, I feel the criticisms commonly made have been done so many times that it's not even discussion anymore. Our dear Mike Pollock recently said getting virtually the same comments for Robotnik, over and over is making him upset (if I understood correctly). No different. Try criticism that's more original that most would never say or think of. As such, people should start looking for less obvious things to enjoy, even if it's just a cutscene reminding you of a meeting you had with someone, in your own life. 

[Your Vest Friend]

Sonic Underground has dire songs, and they're the worst part of the show. That's the popular part.

Unpopular - I think quite a good chunk of the songs have at least decent tunes, and if they were instrumental they could be passable or even good. Certainly a very experimental soundtrack across the 40 songs.

But the show's choice in singing vocals just completely ruins whatever potential it may have had, because they're just that awful. To be fair, I don't think it's entirely down to the singers, as Sam Vincent can sing, Louise Vallance (who's also the voice of Dixie Kong from DKC and Miss Possum from AoStH, so she goes back quite a bit) has a career in singing and Tyley Ross has been nominated for awards (and won one award) for his musical talent, but the decision in voice direction to make them emulate Jaleel White's squeaky, outdated, ear-scratching vocal performance just kills whatever good could have been there. 

Speaking of DKC, I think that's an apt comparison. It was also a French-produced cartoon with 40 episodes based on a video game property with a strange emphasis on musical segments (2 per episode this time!). However, while Sonic Underground tried to reclaim that SatAM glory by bringing back Jaleel in a context that did not suit his vocal style, the directors of DKC decided to ignore any previously established voices. This meant instead of DK having a gruff voice that would have sounded just as bad as Jaleel for singing (no offence to Chris Sutherland intended, as an ape voice it's fine), they went with someone entirely new. Jarring for those expecting a voice closer to the source material yes, but it allowed the singing voice to play to its strengths, and that's why there are a good number of songs people legitimately like, and consider the best part of the show. It can't rescue all of them (especially when you add in Diddy), but it's better than Sonic Underground for it. 

...I bet it was Hurst who pulled for Jaleel White to come back as the voice, especially since it was going to be a SatAM continuation before it was reworked due to the network. I sincerely doubt Michel Trouillet himself cared all too much about keeping that legacy going. 

 

[E-122-Psi]

On 8 January 2017 at 4:54 PM, Vo-Muw/Lime/Rosalie/Key said:

Unpopular: As much as I dislike 06 and ShTH, I feel the criticisms commonly made have been done so many times that it's not even discussion anymore. Our dear Mike Pollock recently said getting virtually the same comments for Robotnik, over and over is making him upset (if I understood correctly). No different. Try criticism that's more original that most would never say or think of. As such, people should start looking for less obvious things to enjoy, even if it's just a cutscene reminding you of a meeting you had with someone, in your own life. 

What comments does he get exactly?

5 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

...I bet it was Hurst who pulled for Jaleel White to come back as the voice, especially since it was going to be a SatAM continuation before it was reworked due to the network. I sincerely doubt Michel Trouillet himself cared all too much about keeping that legacy going. 

 

Hard to say, though I know Hurst hated working on Underground, claiming he was working off some very amateur ideas and scripts and had to rework it a fair bit to salvage it. I don't know whether that was him claiming he had to drastically retooled the entire setup or just mildly fine tuned odd bits of script so it wasn't outright bad. He sounded a bit too apathetic towards the whole thing to take that much control of it.

[Yoko/葉子]

5 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

What comments does he get exactly?

On Facebook, he gets overwhelmed with hearing about Eggman, when he does a lot of other work to. He wants to be recognized for doing commercials, as well.

Some actors don't like only being known for one character alone. He even made a playlist of stuff he's worked on. 

 

[Yoko/葉子]

Popular: I can see why most would not care for Jaleel White not voicing Sonic and his siblings well in Underground. 

To make a comparison, since there are lots of Dragon Ball fans here: While I'm happy for Kozo Shioya for being able to voice all incarnations of Boo except Oob in Japanese, the problem is that he does not sound convincing as any of them, just like with Jaleel. And believe me, this is coming from one who knows small amounts of Japanese and can pick up on the acting in some words. No matter what, if you can't get a decent voice actor to believably play multiple parts, don't use them for the extra parts, even if to save money. (Which is why I think having different people play different Boo versions in the American dub worked much better.)

Which reminds me, I am still impressed with how the New York cast were able to pull of so many different voices and still sound great as them all. I think part of that might be that New York has one advantage that Los Angeles does not: much more work to practice with in theatrical plays, thus forcing them to have variety.

 

[Your Vest Friend]

Hmm, just thought about one that's far more fan-focused and probably a bit controversial if only because no one really says anything about it.

I don't like the idea of Eggman's mother being nice. I could see Maria's mother being like that (and it would explain why she was so kind herself despite being a Robotnik), but you're unlikely to get someone as megamaniacal as Eggman from someone who's all hugs and kisses. There's even in-game justification as well; Eggman looked up to his grandfather as a child, he never infers that he ever looked up to his own parents. That suggests that either they were neglectful (and probably not very nice) or just not present in his life. Which...makes a strange amount of sense given the series' tendency to ditch parents out of their kids' lives (save for Cream, Jet and Wave). 

[Diogenes]

3 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

There's even in-game justification as well; Eggman looked up to his grandfather as a child, he never infers that he ever looked up to his own parents. That suggests that either they were neglectful (and probably not very nice) or just not present in his life.

Well, not necessarily. He could have no hard feelings about his parents but just see Gerald as a bigger inspiration. Maybe they weren't brilliant scientists, or maybe they weren't mad scientists. It might even be that he did look up to his parents too, but there's no point we've seen where it would be relevant for him to mention it.

[rosedust]

Sorry to bump this from like February but, I feel like Sonia from Underground deserves more appreciation and has a lot to offer as a character had she have the chance to return.

[E-122-Psi]

51 minutes ago, rosedust said:

Sorry to bump this from like February but, I feel like Sonia from Underground deserves more appreciation and has a lot to offer as a character had she have the chance to return.

I like she was Sally's concept taken a bit further. ie. the stick in the mud, but a more fallible stick in the mud. She was allowed to look pompous or have moments she was the one who screwed things up, compared to Sally who was largely a straight man all the time. She was a bit more fun and played  on the 'spoiled' princess part without being too unlikeable, and what's more they didn't do her bantering to death in her respective show, there were other characters to interact with.

I'll also give credit while White voicing her was a weird choice, he didn't do THAT bad a job. I actually thought it was a girl trying to imitate White rather than vice versa.