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Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!


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I will say that with Forces, I consider games!Eggman just as competent if not superior to Satam Robotnik since they have now both temporary accomplished their true goal.

While games!Eggman had grasp of control for much shorter than Satam Robotnik, he at least had more against his favour to justify it. Nearly every hero is super powered in his universe and even with a truly almighty creation like Infinite they soldiered on. Eggman, while still arrogant, was also much more savvy about the heroes potentially getting the upper hand this time and even seemed to be keeping his eye on Infinite in case he got another usurper on his hands.

Satam Robotnik kept hold of his world for much longer, but had things in his favour more. He used the complacency of his superiors and their own machinery to take over (seriously Max and Chuck were insanely careless with their artillery, and Naugus despite KNOWING Robotnik was no good, somehow expected him to be scared enough of him to not backstab him during the perfect opportunity) and the only two heroes with noteworthy powers were either non stop arrogant and reckless, or a goofy klutz who never really did any missions besides flight vehicle. While Robotnik started off savvy he gradually became Bond villain level arrogant, refusing to accept any notion he could be stopped, and unlike Eggman, who could at least put up a half way fight against Sonic, Robotnik usually got humiliated whenever he directly faced Sonic (just for some reason Sonic never took advantage of it to bring him down).

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1 hour ago, E-122-Psi said:

(just for some reason Sonic never took advantage of it to bring him down).

Yeah, with that in mind, the FFs really could've the war sooner for example in Game Guy when Dulcy froze both Robotnik and Snively, the guys never try to capture those two. 

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On 2/12/2018 at 5:37 AM, Jack of Tangles said:

Agreed. I don't see why Amy should "replace" Knuckles and Knux should guard the Master Emerald all the time, that would be such a waste of a great character in my opinion. They are a perfect foursome!

I’m sorry, but unless you’re being facetious here, comments like this really concern me when people talk about a “waste” of a great character and make a solution that really sums up to a vague “let them hang out together” that builds almost nothing to their current traits beyond fan service. Which is basically what Sonic Team did since Heroes, and they suffered as a result.

Ever figure that the reason people want Knuckles to guard the Master Emerald is so they can return to building his character as established and make him grow from there, using the Master Emerald and that of his Island to develop him more? That’s not the same as “Knuckles should stay out never get involved at all” which people seem content to read it as, it’s basically saying “Knuckles should be a strong character on his own, not just a groupie or a teammate.”

Not to rag on Boom!Knuckles because he’s in a completely different setting, but that’s kinda what some would rather not have and would prefer him more along the lines of what Archie!Knuckles is during Ian’s run. And partly why people even suggest Amy “replace” Knuckles is because she doesn’t have any of the same responsibilities or restrictions and is a lot more mobile and freelance by comparison—that’s the basic logic in their settings, and breaking that logic with Knuckles is why that has become an issue for him.

Also—and I partially want to throw up in admitting this—but Ken Penders, as egotistical of a screwball and poor writer he is, basically showed you can build more to Knuckles as an individual than just another one of Sonic’s friends tagging along when you actually put forth the effort into developing him instead of having him as a tagalong...and it really says something about Sonic Team and those who can’t fathom Knuckles not being grouped into a trio/foursome that can’t or refuse to understand this. (Not that Penders went about it in the best way either, but I give credit where it’s due)

...also goes into my opinion of why I’m not entirely fond of these rigid Teams that this franchise has been content to put these characters in ever since Heroes, since it makes characters less individual and too collective and gives the false impression that these characters can’t grow without being connected to familars.

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On 1/29/2018 at 5:56 PM, E-122-Psi said:

The problem is in a lot of cases where the shipping starts to become an official pairing, it starts to take over the entire character(s). Archie I thought was pretty bad at this, not just Antoine and Bunnie got 'blanderized', Sonic and Sally, Monkey Khan and Sally, Knuckles and Julie Su, Tails and Cosmo. They just became rather dull and nauseating together in how their affection took over their relationship (and often their personality by default). Generally the only times a shipped character doesn't feel diluted is when they started off with a crush on the character in question in the first place.

They aren't that good at making varied foil ages either. Archie was particularly bad with it, usually giving us the hot headed action guy vs the more level headed satellite girl. Apparently guys always need a girl to reel them in, and girls....need a guy to reel in or they don't have much of a role at all. It's so one note how these pairings usually end up.

Which is why I hate shipping in general in this series. It's always done poorly. If it's not done poorly officially, then the fans who ship it also do it in the most generic and lamest way. It's just making two characters into nothing more than just lovers often to give some sort of ideal happiness the person doing it can't have. Not saying that's everyone, but in a lot of cases it feels like that. Gets even worse when I see Ship Whoring. Though of course I never bother anyone who does it as well....they do them. I even have friends who are yaoi/shipping enthusiasts. I just let them be them and not ruin it for them. I just can't stand it.

It further baffles me when Tails...the 8 year old...for some reason is hitched a lot. I'd expect far more out of Rouge, Knuckles, Vector, Sonic, or pretty much most of the cast before him. Which leads to my guess the whole putting yourself in their shoes is why it's the case here at least. Doesn't help everyone of ships are utter garbage of the highest order with either bad characters, or the most bread sliced characters who might as well be fanfiction characters.

On 1/29/2018 at 5:22 PM, Swing said:

Unpopular opinion: I personally do not like shipping at all. In almost know series unless it has romantic as a genre like with Ranma 1/2 and some Disney movies. I have a feeling that shipping in stories like Sonic feel more like forces fanservice. Non of the Sonic characters feel like their belong in a meaning full relationship. This bugs me with a lot of other series too, not only Sonic. 

I mean maybe having something like down the line when their older may be ok....like that one comic no one seems to like XD. But often it's just adds nothing to anything beyond "Oh how cute" or "FAN BABIES OC'S!!!!". Other series can get away with it if they can make said romance organic and actually help a character. Otherwise it's just fanservice.

 

 

 

Oh yeah and my possible Unpopular opinion to add. Sonic Generations was a fluke. A one time stroke of luck from Sonic Team before going back to being Sonic Team.

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9 hours ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

I’m sorry, but unless you’re being facetious here, comments like this really concern me when people talk about a “waste” of a great character and make a solution that really sums up to a vague “let them hang out together” that builds almost nothing to their current traits beyond fan service. Which is basically what Sonic Team did since Heroes, and they suffered as a result.

Ever figure that the reason people want Knuckles to guard the Master Emerald is so they can return to building his character as established and make him grow from there, using the Master Emerald and that of his Island to develop him more? That’s not the same as “Knuckles should stay out never get involved at all” which people seem content to read it as, it’s basically saying “Knuckles should be a strong character on his own, not just a groupie or a teammate.”

Not to rag on Boom!Knuckles because he’s in a completely different setting, but that’s kinda what some would rather not have and would prefer him more along the lines of what Archie!Knuckles is during Ian’s run. And partly why people even suggest Amy “replace” Knuckles is because she doesn’t have any of the same responsibilities or restrictions and is a lot more mobile and freelance by comparison—that’s the basic logic in their settings, and breaking that logic with Knuckles is why that has become an issue for him.

Also—and I partially want to throw up in admitting this—but Ken Penders, as egotistical of a screwball and poor writer he is, basically showed you can build more to Knuckles as an individual than just another one of Sonic’s friends tagging along when you actually put forth the effort into developing him instead of having him as a tagalong...and it really says something about Sonic Team and those who can’t fathom Knuckles not being grouped into a trio/foursome that can’t or refuse to understand this. (Not that Penders went about it in the best way either, but I give credit where it’s due)

...also goes into my opinion of why I’m not entirely fond of these rigid Teams that this franchise has been content to put these characters in ever since Heroes, since it makes characters less individual and too collective and gives the false impression that these characters can’t grow without being connected to familars.

I'm not a fan of teams either, I prefer variety in interactions, but duos and groups of characters in general - I like those, it's the idea of Team Sonic that sounds like stock character groups or something like that. I don't like the idea of Knuckles being a loner, however, but he is supposed to be a leader, more than Sonic, a hero of his own, that's why Forces actually used him and made him captain, before Sonic showed up, and after, because Sonic is basically their best soldier, but not a leader. There is a place for him with the others though, he shouldn't just tag along, but he should not be an hermit who stays on his Island and does nothing, I would like him to have his own plots related to the echidnas, but apparently that's not possible, so I'd rather have him tag with Sonic and friends, but he should have his own role too and not just best friend #2. 

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Knuckles isn't suppose to be a leader...that literally goes against most of his characteristics.

Knuckles is only the leader in Forces because he's on Team Sonic.

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32 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Knuckles isn't suppose to be a leader...that literally goes against most of his characteristics.

Knuckles is only the leader in Forces because he's on Team Sonic.

Well, he ran an island populated by animal friends. He even let them have carnival nights. :)

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5 hours ago, Jack of Tangles said:

I don't like the idea of Knuckles being a loner, however, but he is supposed to be a leader, more than Sonic, a hero of his own, that's why Forces actually used him and made him captain, before Sonic showed up, and after, because Sonic is basically their best soldier, but not a leader.

...since when before Forces was Knuckles ever suppose to be a leader? Because you completely made that up.

5 hours ago, Jack of Tangles said:

There is a place for him with the others though, he shouldn't just tag along, but he should not be an hermit who stays on his Island and does nothing, I would like him to have his own plots related to the echidnas, but apparently that's not possible, so I'd rather have him tag with Sonic and friends, but he should have his own role too and not just best friend #2. 

Then you really weren’t paying attention to the point I was making earlier...

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He was sort of the leader in Knuckles Chaotix. We call it a spin-off game now, but it's in the same boat as Sonic CD.

That was Knuckles doing stuff outside of Angel Island without the ME in sight, in order to protect Angel Island and the ME. (per Japanese manual).

 

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I’m going to ask this again, and I want a concrete answer and not one minimized as him “sort of” being one.

When before Forces was Knuckles ever supposed to be a leader? Chaotix doesn’t count for the sheer fact that it isn’t even loosely canon compared to CD which is canon, and you can “sort of” argue that he wasn’t one there anyway.

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I disagree with the popular saying that Amy tried to hurt Sonic in Sonic Heroes when its heavily implied that Sonic was desperately trying to get away.

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1 hour ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

I’m going to ask this again, and I want a concrete answer and not one minimized as him “sort of” being one.

When before Forces was Knuckles ever supposed to be a leader? Chaotix doesn’t count for the sheer fact that it isn’t even loosely canon compared to CD which is canon, and you can “sort of” argue that he wasn’t one there anyway.

I mean, what reason do we have to think Knuckles Chaotix isn't canon? Did Vector, Espio, and Charmy meet everyone in Sonic Heroes?

Apart from that, he governed an island filled with Animal Friends.

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8 minutes ago, BaronGrackle said:

I mean, what reason do we have to think Knuckles Chaotix isn't canon? Did Vector, Espio, and Charmy meet everyone in Sonic Heroes?

Well, that was definitely the case with team Dark and team Rose, even without outside context. You don't go up to a person you know and say "Who's this broad?".

But even with team Sonic, there's been no indication of any long standing history with them any time they've interacted, so they could have easily met for the first time in Heroes or just heard of them through word of mouth (like SA2's newspaper report on Tails saving Station Square, which shows the heroes were getting publicity as far back as then). 

Outside of game context, there's Iizuka's statement from just after the game released, there's what AAUK said in the 2010 canon anarchy event, there's what Ian's said on the matter of having references to the game in the Archie comic (when it was still alive), and even as recently as last year there's some suspect stuff with Sonic Mania and the art book. 

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Well, okay. Maybe Knuckles was a leader in the late '90s, then not a leader in the mid '00s, and then a leader again in 2018. I'm not trying to pick a fight, though. I do see where you guys are coming from.

If not Knuckles, then who SHOULD have led?

EDIT: And let me offer this perspective. Let's say Knuckles has never led a team. But let's also say SEGA wants to develop him as someone other than a tagalong for Team Sonic, let's say they want to expand his characterization starting from his premise as the Master Emerald guardian - as Conquering Storm elaborated so well on a few posts ago.

Within Knuckles's existing characterization, I can still see someone hardheaded and arrogant (but noble) enough to THINK he is the best choice for leader. And I can see him being the loudest voice claiming to be the best choice.

Maybe he is a poor leader. One could argue Sonic Forces confirms that with "Operation Big Wave".

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17 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

He's the leader because he's one of the original 4 and Tails couldn't fulfill the role due to being "out of it"...

Well, Tails is one of my favorites, but I'd stick him at the bottom of any "natural leader" list.

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2 hours ago, BaronGrackle said:

Well, okay. Maybe Knuckles was a leader in the late '90s, then not a leader in the mid '00s, and then a leader again in 2018. I'm not trying to pick a fight, though. I do see where you guys are coming from.

If not Knuckles, then who SHOULD have led?

EDIT: And let me offer this perspective. Let's say Knuckles has never led a team. But let's also say SEGA wants to develop him as someone other than a tagalong for Team Sonic, let's say they want to expand his characterization starting from his premise as the Master Emerald guardian - as Conquering Storm elaborated so well on a few posts ago.

Within Knuckles's existing characterization, I can still see someone hardheaded and arrogant (but noble) enough to THINK he is the best choice for leader. And I can see him being the loudest voice claiming to be the best choice.

Maybe he is a poor leader. One could argue Sonic Forces confirms that with "Operation Big Wave".

This unfortunately is just you putting much more effort into thinking of a valid reason for Knuckles to be a leader, when it's probably/very likely that Sonic Team just tossed him into the leadership position out of a halfassed way to make him "important" without actually doing anything.

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42 minutes ago, SenEDDtor Missile said:

This unfortunately is just you putting much more effort into thinking of a valid reason for Knuckles to be a leader, when it's probably/very likely that Sonic Team just tossed him into the leadership position out of a halfassed way to make him "important" without actually doing anything.

Sure, but who would be the leader if not Knuckles? Probably someone like... Silver.

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5 hours ago, Pengi said:

What is that?

Basically, on the SEGA Forums in 2010, some users were discussing the likelihood of Sonic Chronicles getting a sequel (back when that idea wasn't completely ridiculous) and discussing its place in the timeline. AAUK (at the time the SEGA Europe PR Manager, the equivalent of Aaron now) came along and outright said it wasn't canon. This prompted other users to ask more questions about game canonicity, so he gave more answers, and several places were...none too happy about the answers. 

While some of what he said has been contradicted since, like I said before, other pieces of info both before and after this suggest it hasn't changed for Chaotix. 

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2 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

Basically, on the SEGA Forums in 2010, some users were discussing the likelihood of Sonic Chronicles getting a sequel (back when that idea wasn't completely ridiculous) and discussing its place in the timeline. AAUK (at the time the SEGA Europe PR Manager, the equivalent of Aaron now) came along and outright said it wasn't canon. This prompted other users to ask more questions about game canonicity, so he gave more answers, and several places were...none too happy about the answers. 

While some of what he said has been contradicted since, like I said before, other pieces of info both before and after this suggest it hasn't changed for Chaotix. 

For what it's worth, he later referred to implying the game was canon.

But no, I don't think it's worth much. As the man says, canon is very fluid, vague, and ever-shifting.

Is Sonic Mania canon? Does that mean Fang, Bean, and Bark are? If so,  is it only because of Heavy Magician's illusions, or is it also the WANTED posters? Because she could easily have gotten her ideas purely from the poster images. And if a WANTED poster is enough, do the posters in Generations City Escape make those three plus Mighty and Ray canon for the main dimension? Is Sonic Generations itself canon (AAUK thinks it shouldn't be)?

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He never did. I recall that because I've been following it. The link you posted also doesn't relate to the point. 

And like I said, there's been stuff later that also heavily hints at it being non-canon, just as it was in 2003. Sonic Team have been very adamant on this one point. 

As for the rest;

-Sonic Mania is definitely canon because of its link to Forces. Even Iizuka has gone on record to say that the classic verse has the old scrapped characters, but Fang, Bean and Bark making physical appearances are dubious because of the illusion thing (which also means the posters could be illusions), it would probably take another game to verify how things are in the classic verse. 

-The Generations posters are definitely not canon as they're just easter eggs (aka not relevant to what happens), otherwise the current characters running cafes and coffee shops would also be canon. AAUK reflected his personal feelings on whether the game overall should be canon or not (which is not the same as saying that's the official stance), but the promotion for Forces made it clear that it is canon. 

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4 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

He never did. I recall that because I've been following it. The link you posted also doesn't relate to the point.

I meant this part:

Quote

"One of the things I also went on to say in that thread was that the canon was and is somewhat in flux all the time. As since it is, for want of better phrasing, whatever SEGA want or need it to be at the time. So it could easily change 

- something that people like to ignore I said so as to deem everything I wrote entirely invalidated after Iizuka implied Chaotix was canon."

And really, I'm not as focused on the last sentence as on the rest. "Canon" really is whatever want or need it to be at the time.

Before Sonic Generations, nobody even entertained the thought that Secret Rings could be canon. All because Sonic said a few words in a cutscene. That's the nature of the medium.

EDIT: And I do see your comments later in that thread. I still feel the fluid canon part is very, very relevant.

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You know what? The fact Sally was nearly naked in SatAM and Pre-Reboot is a good thing.

The fact that Males must wear no more than shoes and gloves, unless SEGA makes them, and how Females must be EXTREMELY MODEST (i.e., wear alot of clothes) is kinda sexist, if you know what I mean.

When SatAM first aired, Sonic CD wouldn't be released until November or '93, and I don't believe anyone at DiC played the Japanese version before, so they most likely hadn't seen Amy yet.

Because of this, they designed the characters with barely any clothing, and I guess they assumed that the fur would hide the private parts, so there wasn't really any trouble with designing Sally.

SEGA, however, doesn't take note of this, and always has the females wear heavy clothing, and forces the males to be what can be seen as naked.

TL;DR Sally's old design isn't sexist because the DiC thought the fur would cover privates, and SEGA is kinda sexist for making it so the males can't dress heavily.

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