Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[Swing]

Popular opinion: I do not think that Infinite is a good villain. His design looks just way to cheap, like an oc on Deviantart, his backstory is one of the most laughable I have ever seen in a video game: "Yeah, Shadow was more edgier than me. Now I have to kill all the people on this planet to proof I'm the edgiest Edgehog around! He wasn't a challenging boss character, his boss battles are really uninspired. He is overall a very bland, poorly written character.   

[Pengi]

On 2/15/2018 at 2:17 PM, VEDJ-F said:

He never did. I recall that because I've been following it. The link you posted also doesn't relate to the point. 

 

Yeah. I've never been able to find anything concrete on what AAUK was referring to here: 

Quote

One of the things I also went on to say in that thread was that the canon was and is somewhat in flux all the time. As since it is, for want of better phrasing, whatever SEGA want or need it to be at the time. So it could easily change - something that people like to ignore I said so as to deem everything I wrote entirely invalidated after Iizuka implied Chaotix was canon.

 

When Sonic Heroes came out, Iizuka was insistent that Vector/Espio/Charmy had been re-introduced as new characters. In at least one interview more recent than AAUK's post, he's stuck to that story. So when did he ever imply it was canon? 

 

VEDJ-F, do you recall which Summer of Sonic/Sonic Boom it was where Iizuka basically said that Espio/Vector/Charmy were pre-existing Sonic Team characters who were used incorrectly in Chaotix?

[Splash the Otter]

I don't care if Fang is "officially" a jerboa. I've believed he was a wolfsel for too long to see him as anything else.

[Biggs]

Shadow the Hedgehog really isn't that bad. To be honest I preferred it to Heroes. Haven't played it in like 5 years or so though.

[Iko]

Unpopular opinion: I don't like Amy. I like the other female characters, Blaze, Cream, Rouge (even if honestly Rouge is not my favorite due to her oversexualized design), even minor ones like Marine, I just can't stand Amy.

-First of all, I like variety in the Sonic cast, and I'm not a big fan of making many characters based on the same species (there are way too many hedgehog characters); Blaze is a cat like Big, but they look nothing alike... Big is probably a Maine Coon, considering the shape of his ears, while Blaze is a more generic type of cat.

-Second, she debuted as a Sonic recolor, as a fanservice character (love interest, shipping), and especially as a Minnie Mouse type character (gender swap version of the main character that looks exactly like him but female) wich I'm not a fan of; I can't stand to people who say Amy should be more relevant an be always in the spotlight, and Shadow is a recolor shonen clone that should be retired... they are both in the same boat to me, if Shadow is a recolor, Amy is too, they are both fanservice characters (an hammer can make the difference gameplay wise, but not character design wise); even with the jump into modern era, she got a different hairstyle, but I still fail to see her uniqueness... different hairstyle and dress is IMO a weak solution to make a character look unique, it's still a female Sonic to me.

-Her personality has never been consistent, changing from game to game, and most of the different personalities are annoying or boring. She's also very stereotypical in a very annoying way, compared to the other female characters.

-I disagree with that trend that became more and more popular recently, people who say that Knuckles should leave the main cast and Amy should replace him; it wouldn't make any sense in a design point of view; even if canon wise Knuckles is stuck on Angel Island, according to the image of the franchise, he is a main character; plot and canon are secondary... it's like saying that Luigi should be removed from the Mario series because he's too scared to go into adventure, just no. Even the color scheme is better if you consider Knuckles instead of Amy: ### vs ###, would you imagine the Sonic Heroes logo with pink instead of red?

Spoiler

-I disagree with people who give her huge merits reguarding her role in the Adventure games: in Adventure 1 she's just trying to trick Gamma into opening the cell, there is no empathy or feelings involved, she is just tricking the robot with words; the robot is flawed and part of the flicky's personality comes out occasionally, so he decides to free Amy... Tikal may have influenced his action as well, if you play through Gamma's story you can see that the visions happen to Gamma as well and they play a huge role in the robot turning good... but Amy has nothing to do with this; otherwise, she's just being obsessive about her love for Sonic in the rest of the game; In Adventure 2 it's the same, she's trying to trick Shadow into helping the others, everyone is going to die, she has nothing to lose, and as she says in the game, she's doing this because "everyone is doing their best", let's try doing something too, not because "Shadow is sad, let's comfort him". Shadow changes his mind because Amy says a couple of words that for pure luck are the same words said by Maria, and Shadow gains back his lost memories; again, just luck, not Amy's merit; Amy freeing Sonic from the prison is still part of her obsession: "I'll free you if you marry me".

-She was supposed to be weak, not a fighter; her hammer was a joke weapon, she had problems at destroying 1 robot (Zero) in Sonic Adventure, while other characters destroy hordes of them with no effort. Each game, she becomes more and more an overpowered Mary-Sue, and her hammer now became a real weapon, so much that she's now considered a power type character by some people. Even personality-wise, with people complaining about her being a Sonic fangirl, they toned that aspect down, making her super serious and flawless, her Boom version is the most out of character of all, and that personality had some influence in Forces as well; Amy has been an obsessive fangirl since Sonic CD but most of her fans refuse to accept it.

-She introduces romance in the Sonic series, and I think it's unfitting and unnecessary. Fans go crazy with shipping the two characters, and that may be one of the reasons why she's so beloved, though I like my Sonic games being about Sonic and friends trying to stop Eggman and save the world, shipping is not what I want from Sonic.

-I don't like when people say that Cream is Amy's sidekick or best friends, there is little to no evidence of this in official media, they are friends offcourse but most of the times the two are shown on their own, not together. I don't know if it comes from Sonic X, sonic comics, obscure spin-offs or what.

The only thing that I like about Amy, is her gameplay in Sonic Advance 1.

[Diogenes]

13 minutes ago, Iko said:

-I disagree with people who give her huge merits reguarding her role in the Adventure games: in Adventure 1 she's just trying to trick Gamma into opening the cell, there is no empathy or feelings involved, she is just tricking the robot with words; the robot is flawed and part of the flicky's personality comes out occasionally, so he decides to free Amy... Tikal may have influenced his action as well, if you play through Gamma's story you can see that the visions happen to Gamma as well and they play a huge role in the robot turning good... but Amy has nothing to do with this; otherwise, she's just being obsessive about her love for Sonic in the rest of the game; In Adventure 2 it's the same, she's trying to trick Shadow into helping the others, everyone is going to die, she has nothing to lose, and as she says in the game, she's doing this because "everyone is doing their best", let's try doing something too, not because "Shadow is sad, let's comfort him". Shadow changes his mind because Amy says a couple of words that for pure luck are the same words said by Maria, and Shadow gains back his lost memories; again, just luck, not Amy's merit; Amy freeing Sonic from the prison is still part of her obsession: "I'll free you if you marry me".

At this point you're letting your dislike for the character override the actual facts. There's not a shred of evidence that Amy's just trying to trick Gamma or Shadow; she's an innocent, empathetic girl honestly trying to get through to these characters. And that she tries and succeeds is still worthwhile even if they're not convinced purely by her reasoning or compassion. Also, most of Amy's story in SA is about protecting the flicky, not obsessing over Sonic, and talking about marriage when she's freeing Sonic from prison is treated more as a joke; she's not actually using the situation to force him into it.

[E-122-Psi]

On 18 February 2018 at 12:11 AM, Sgt Nate V said:

You know what? The fact Sally was nearly naked in SatAM and Pre-Reboot is a good thing.

The fact that Males must wear no more than shoes and gloves, unless SEGA makes them, and how Females must be EXTREMELY MODEST (i.e., wear alot of clothes) is kinda sexist, if you know what I mean.

When SatAM first aired, Sonic CD wouldn't be released until November or '93, and I don't believe anyone at DiC played the Japanese version before, so they most likely hadn't seen Amy yet.

Because of this, they designed the characters with barely any clothing, and I guess they assumed that the fur would hide the private parts, so there wasn't really any trouble with designing Sally.

SEGA, however, doesn't take note of this, and always has the females wear heavy clothing, and forces the males to be what can be seen as naked.

TL;DR Sally's old design isn't sexist because the DiC thought the fur would cover privates, and SEGA is kinda sexist for making it so the males can't dress heavily.

I think the real problem was less her being naked and more the design occasionally emphasising she was naked. Her SatAM and later Uekawa inspired ones were harmless enough, but in-between all of that we got ridiculously humanoid designs with curvy legs and hips and a boob silhouette. It was practically making her a naked human, especially considering how out of place such a design was compared to Sonic anyway.

I think this type of style is best saved for fan art than an official depiction, good as the artist may be.

52 minutes ago, Iko said:

-I disagree with people who give her huge merits reguarding her role in the Adventure games: in Adventure 1 she's just trying to trick Gamma into opening the cell, there is no empathy or feelings involved, she is just tricking the robot with words; the robot is flawed and part of the flicky's personality comes out occasionally, so he decides to free Amy... Tikal may have influenced his action as well, if you play through Gamma's story you can see that the visions happen to Gamma as well and they play a huge role in the robot turning good... but Amy has nothing to do with this; otherwise, she's just being obsessive about her love for Sonic in the rest of the game; In Adventure 2 it's the same, she's trying to trick Shadow into helping the others, everyone is going to die, she has nothing to lose, and as she says in the game, she's doing this because "everyone is doing their best", let's try doing something too, not because "Shadow is sad, let's comfort him". Shadow changes his mind because Amy says a couple of words that for pure luck are the same words said by Maria, and Shadow gains back his lost memories; again, just luck, not Amy's merit; Amy freeing Sonic from the prison is still part of her obsession: "I'll free you if you marry me".

-She was supposed to be weak, not a fighter; her hammer was a joke weapon, she had problems at destroying 1 robot (Zero) in Sonic Adventure, while other characters destroy hordes of them with no effort. Each game, she becomes more and more an overpowered Mary-Sue, and her hammer now became a real weapon, so much that she's now considered a power type character by some people. Even personality-wise, with people complaining about her being a Sonic fangirl, they toned that aspect down, making her super serious and flawless, her Boom version is the most out of character of all, and that personality had some influence in Forces as well; Amy has been an obsessive fangirl since Sonic CD but most of her fans refuse to accept it.

If she was just using Gamma to achieve her own ends she wouldn't have defended him from Sonic and took pity on him. Sure she had a lot to lose if Gamma DIDN'T do what she wanted, but the empathy seemed genuine.

Concerning her power level, I admit to being mixed. Cases like Sonic X and Archie where characters who scoff at Sonic and Knuckles actually crap their pants before Amy I admit are overdone. I'd like to see more times they get a good balance with her, being competent and not just an 'abusive anime girl' cliche, but at the same time keeping some of her quirks. If you took out that one boss battle, her Heroes depiction was reasonable, she was capable but still on a weaker level than the other more advanced teams, and while she was a reasonably competent leader, she was still bubbly and childish (just we got more lucid interactions like Vector labelling her a 'lil' brat' for smack talking him, instead of everyone being afraid to drop a pin around her in case she turns sociopath on them).

I wouldn't call the Boom incarnation flawless though, she still has comical traits, just she doesn't really fit the whole 'curmudgeonly know-it-all action girl' characterisation they gave her. It fits Sally more than it fits her.

What I think a lot of story depictions tend to overlook in potential is that Amy isn't just 'AMY SMASH' with her hammer in the games, she uses it resourcefully in different ways. That was how she kept on level with the other characters in games like Advance. There's a brain to using it.

[Iko]

1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

At this point you're letting your dislike for the character override the actual facts. There's not a shred of evidence that Amy's just trying to trick Gamma or Shadow; she's an innocent, empathetic girl honestly trying to get through to these characters. And that she tries and succeeds is still worthwhile even if they're not convinced purely by her reasoning or compassion. Also, most of Amy's story in SA is about protecting the flicky, not obsessing over Sonic, and talking about marriage when she's freeing Sonic from prison is treated more as a joke; she's not actually using the situation to force him into it.

There are some people I talked to some time ago, that think that those scenes (Gamma and Shadow) in the Adventure games are full of depth, but I played the games myself and I watched those cutscenes, I fail to see all the depth that those people talk about... just Amy trying to convince the other character to help her, in a superficial way IMO. True that most of the story is about protecting the flicky, but I also remember her interacting with Sonic a couple of times and talking about love and go to Twinkle Park as a couple.

I know the marriage scene in SA2 is a joke, but it's still her being fangirl to Sonic.

1 hour ago, E-122-Psi said:

If she was just using Gamma to achieve her own ends she wouldn't have defended him from Sonic and took pity on him. Sure she had a lot to lose if Gamma DIDN'T do what she wanted, but the empathy seemed genuine.

Concerning her power level, I admit to being mixed. Cases like Sonic X and Archie where characters who scoff at Sonic and Knuckles actually crap their pants before Amy I admit are overdone. I'd like to see more times they get a good balance with her, being competent and not just an 'abusive anime girl' cliche, but at the same time keeping some of her quirks. If you took out that one boss battle, her Heroes depiction was reasonable, she was capable but still on a weaker level than the other more advanced teams, and while she was a reasonably competent leader, she was still bubbly and childish (just we got more lucid interactions like Vector labelling her a 'lil' brat' for smack talking him, instead of everyone being afraid to drop a pin around her in case she turns sociopath on them).

I wouldn't call the Boom incarnation flawless though, she still has comical traits, just she doesn't really fit the whole 'curmudgeonly know-it-all action girl' characterisation they gave her. It fits Sally more than it fits her.

What I think a lot of story depictions tend to overlook in potential is that Amy isn't just 'AMY SMASH' with her hammer in the games, she uses it resourcefully in different ways. That was how she kept on level with the other characters in games like Advance. There's a brain to using it.

She defending Gamma from Sonic happend later in the game when she already knew that Gamma was good, and Sonic didn't, my point was that when she was captured, she tried to convince Gamma to release her, because she was in a situation where that's the only thing she was able to do, not because she saw some good light in Gamma's heart or anything. If I remember well, Gamma started to have Tikal's visions before even interacting with Amy, and that's when he started to turn good.

Also I think that's more about her tendency to expose herself to danger without thinking of the consequences, a thing that happend in Sonic CD as well and Sonic had to save her.

That as well is part of her childish behavior, now that you mention it, well, she has always been a bit childish, but I think that since Unleashed (or even 06), Sonic Team removed the childish traits from her character, making her more bland and overly optimistic (in a stereotypical and unrealistic way, and always with Sonic involved in her optimism - like in Unleashed, the world is going to end, no, Sonic won't let it, Sonic will save us all). You may say character development, I think it's simply addressing the fans' complaints of her being a fangirl, but they made the character way more boring IMO, despite all I prefered when she was treated as a comedy character with all the gags about chasing Sonic, at least they managed to make some funny scenes out of that.

About the clever use of the hammer I agree, in fact I said that I like her gameplay in Sonic Advance 1.

[Razule]

2 hours ago, Iko said:

Blaze is a cat like Big, but they look nothing alike...

They both have spiky tails. That counts for something, right

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

5 hours ago, Iko said:

-I disagree with that trend that became more and more popular recently, people who say that Knuckles should leave the main cast and Amy should replace him; it wouldn't make any sense in a design point of view; even if canon wise Knuckles is stuck on Angel Island, according to the image of the franchise, he is a main character; plot and canon are secondary... it's like saying that Luigi should be removed from the Mario series because he's too scared to go into adventure, just no.

No it’s not, for the simple fact that Mario’s continuity is not structured the same as Sonic’s, and comparing Luigi being too scared to go on adventure to Knuckles guardian role on Angel Island is a massive false equivalence that speaks for itself just reading that sentence alone—scared or not, Luigi isn’t guarding anything like Knuckles, nor does his character even compare to Knuckles. So this just comes off as petty—it’d be more like Link ignoring his role as the Triforce of Courage and somehow expecting everything in Hyrule to be okay regardless of that.

And while canon and plot could arguably be secondary, that doesn’t mean they should be ignored entirely for the sake of being present when nothing in the logic of the setting says they should—this is why that trend is becoming popular and why people think Amy should take Knuckles place instead, because he’s often off the Island for no reason other than fans simply expecting him to complete the trio (along with whatever trivial excuse that seems to only apply to Knux and no other character)

Quote

Even the color scheme is better if you consider Knuckles instead of Amy: ### vs ###, would you imagine the Sonic Heroes logo with pink instead of red?

I could, And I wouldn’t have a problem with it.

[Meta77]

5 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

I think the real problem was less her being naked and more the design occasionally emphasising she was naked. Her SatAM and later Uekawa inspired ones were harmless enough, but in-between all of that we got ridiculously humanoid designs with curvy legs and hips and a boob silhouette. It was practically making her a naked human, especially considering how out of place such a design was compared to Sonic anyway.

I think this type of style is best saved for fan art than an official depiction, good as the artist may be.

If she was just using Gamma to achieve her own ends she wouldn't have defended him from Sonic and took pity on him. Sure she had a lot to lose if Gamma DIDN'T do what she wanted, but the empathy seemed genuine.

Concerning her power level, I admit to being mixed. Cases like Sonic X and Archie where characters who scoff at Sonic and Knuckles actually crap their pants before Amy I admit are overdone. I'd like to see more times they get a good balance with her, being competent and not just an 'abusive anime girl' cliche, but at the same time keeping some of her quirks. If you took out that one boss battle, her Heroes depiction was reasonable, she was capable but still on a weaker level than the other more advanced teams, and while she was a reasonably competent leader, she was still bubbly and childish (just we got more lucid interactions like Vector labelling her a 'lil' brat' for smack talking him, instead of everyone being afraid to drop a pin around her in case she turns sociopath on them).

I wouldn't call the Boom incarnation flawless though, she still has comical traits, just she doesn't really fit the whole 'curmudgeonly know-it-all action girl' characterisation they gave her. It fits Sally more than it fits her.

What I think a lot of story depictions tend to overlook in potential is that Amy isn't just 'AMY SMASH' with her hammer in the games, she uses it resourcefully in different ways. That was how she kept on level with the other characters in games like Advance. There's a brain to using it.

Damn I forget how sexy she was during those comic artist span. Whew

[Gotta Go Rational]

Unsure of how popular/unpopular this is, but I’ve never been a fan of the music distortion/fading when boosting in the games. I get that it’s meant to evoke a sense of extreme acceleration and velocity, but just wish it didn’t come at the expense of the soundtrack, especially in a series where the music is often considered an emblematic element of its identity. Do I gotta go fast or do I gotta jam, SEGA? Don’t make me choose!

[Mountaindewandsprite]

Popular: As a guy who likes variety, I don't like how there are four hedgehogs in the cast. I'd rather there be more diversity in the cast. I understand Amy being a hedgehog, due to being the love interest, but I think Shadow should've been a lowland streaked tenrec. LSTs are hedgehog-like. And Silver should've just stayed a mink like originally intended. This goes for Fan Characters as well. Too many hedgehogs.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

On 2/17/2018 at 4:45 PM, Swing said:

Popular opinion: I do not think that Infinite is a good villain. His design looks just way to cheap, like an oc on Deviantart, his backstory is one of the most laughable I have ever seen in a video game: "Yeah, Shadow was more edgier than me. Now I have to kill all the people on this planet to proof I'm the edgiest Edgehog around! He wasn't a challenging boss character, his boss battles are really uninspired. He is overall a very bland, poorly written character.   

Personally, I think that his backstory COULD have worked if the rest of the cast had noted or called him out on the petty nature of his reasons for becoming Evil Edgelord Mcdouchebag (tm). The big problem is that Sonic Team expected us to take the backstory seriously, so it just comes off as stupid.

[Celestia]

My only problem is that his backstory never becomes relevant in the main storyline even when by all rights it should have. Unmasking Infinite and it being revealed to Sonic that he's just some guy (okay, a mercenary, but still) given reality warping powers honestly could've been pretty satisfying.

[Blue Blood]

37 minutes ago, Celestia said:

My only problem is that his backstory never becomes relevant in the main storyline even when by all rights it should have. Unmasking Infinite and it being revealed to Sonic that he's just some guy (okay, a mercenary, but still) given reality warping powers honestly could've been pretty satisfying.

His backstory really adds nothing to the plot, which is annoying because it took three instalments to actually get a backstory. The base game of Forces explains nothing, Episode Shadow only explains that he's "not weak" and put a mask on, and even he prequel comic leaves things fairly unclear. Plus there's the whole Phantom Ruby and Mania tie-in shtick making no sense. 

And in addition to that, what's Infinite's beef with Sonic? Eggman is Infinite's BFF or whatever, so it's not hard to imagine Infinite happily doing Eggman's bidding. But Infinite's real problem lies with Shadow. Shadow's the one that really pushed him over the edge. The story would make much more sense if it was about Shadow and Infinite. Sonic is only really there so that You the Hedgehog can be his new best friend.

Popular opinion: Forces is trash

[NikoS]

Unpopular (?) : I don't understand the appeal (no pun intended) of the peel-out, i always saw it as a capped spin-dash, i can see it being useful in CD, because the whole level design is built around it existing, plus the time travel mechanic benefits from the extra speed you get from it compared to the spin-dash, but i don't see any reason to use it outside CD, since the peel-out is basically the spin-dash, but you are prone to attacks.

[Meta77]

Sonic is a hero everyone knows this. In turn if he whoops on sonic people that looked up to sonic will now fear him. Why fight against a force that best the greatest hero. Forces like 06 could have been amazing if Sega finished stories instead of rushing out a quick buck and controls from hell

[Blue Blood]

27 minutes ago, NikoS said:

Unpopular (?) : I don't understand the appeal (no pun intended) of the peel-out, i always saw it as a capped spin-dash, i can see it being useful in CD, because the whole level design is built around it existing, plus the time travel mechanic benefits from the extra speed you get from it compared to the spin-dash, but i don't see any reason to use it outside CD, since the peel-out is basically the spin-dash, but you are prone to attacks.

The peel-out is faster than the spindash, but leaves Sonic vulnerable. That's easily remedied by rolling as soon as you launch the peel-out, rendering it basically faster spindash. It's always seemed pretty pointless to me. It returns in Lost World in an even more pointless form.

[StaticMania]

Pointless as in...holding the run button just plays the animation and it's not even really the ability.

[Your Vest Friend]

On 18/02/2018 at 10:00 AM, Pengi said:

VEDJ-F, do you recall which Summer of Sonic/Sonic Boom it was where Iizuka basically said that Espio/Vector/Charmy were pre-existing Sonic Team characters who were used incorrectly in Chaotix?

I don't think he's ever said that they were pre-existing characters (although they were) or were used incorrectly. What he has said is that they hadn't been used by Sonic Team and were remade for Heroes. I can't recall the recent occasion he said it (although I do remember there being a recent interview he said that as well), but he also said it way back in the 2003 interview anyway. 

Summer of Sonic 2016 has an interesting supplement; I asked about how the decisions were made for the personalities and dynamics in Heroes, and his answer was that they were already in the design doc and their abilities and personalities were already laid out there to just slide them into the game, aside from Espio who was given a twist by being made a ninja (something supported by an earlier Hoshino interview, which specifically said he was made a ninja because of his existing samurai-like conduct). Given that Chaotix (game) had very different personalities for Espio and Charmy (and traits for Vector) in the Japanese version as well as English, it's safe to assume the design doc for Sonic Team had been established prior and the SEGA Enterprises interpretation was ignored. 

Yet another interview has Iizuka say that they were made detectives because of their gameplay style in Heroes, with no reference to Espio being a Detective in Chaotix. Again, supports the idea that the SE versions were ignored. 

[BaronGrackle]

Of course, Vector's been a music fan in most incarnations.

[Splash the Otter]

I don't agree with the notion that Dr Eggman needs to be in everything. I get that he's popular and works as a go-to villain, but it feels kind of repetitive to have Sonic fight the same guy all the time. How about someone new for a change?

And before anyone brings it up, I'm not a fan of it happening with Mario and Mega Man either.

[Diogenes]

Eggman doesn't need to be in everything, necessarily, but he shouldn't be treated like he's disposable or replaceable, either. Eggman's not just popular or convenient, he's the antagonist of the series, a role second only to the protagonist.

[StaticMania]

17 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

I don't agree with the notion that Dr Eggman needs to be in everything. I get that he's popular and works as a go-to villain, but it feels kind of repetitive to have Sonic fight the same guy all the time. How about someone new for a change?

And before anyone brings it up, I'm not a fan of it happening with Mario and Mega Man either.

The defense of such a thing would be non-existent. Plus Mario gets plenty of different villains in spin-offs...and there's always a villain besides Eggman in most 3D games.