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Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

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On 18/02/2018 at 10:00 AM, Pengi said:

VEDJ-F, do you recall which Summer of Sonic/Sonic Boom it was where Iizuka basically said that Espio/Vector/Charmy were pre-existing Sonic Team characters who were used incorrectly in Chaotix?

I don't think he's ever said that they were pre-existing characters (although they were) or were used incorrectly. What he has said is that they hadn't been used by Sonic Team and were remade for Heroes. I can't recall the recent occasion he said it (although I do remember there being a recent interview he said that as well), but he also said it way back in the 2003 interview anyway. 

Summer of Sonic 2016 has an interesting supplement; I asked about how the decisions were made for the personalities and dynamics in Heroes, and his answer was that they were already in the design doc and their abilities and personalities were already laid out there to just slide them into the game, aside from Espio who was given a twist by being made a ninja (something supported by an earlier Hoshino interview, which specifically said he was made a ninja because of his existing samurai-like conduct). Given that Chaotix (game) had very different personalities for Espio and Charmy (and traits for Vector) in the Japanese version as well as English, it's safe to assume the design doc for Sonic Team had been established prior and the SEGA Enterprises interpretation was ignored. 

Yet another interview has Iizuka say that they were made detectives because of their gameplay style in Heroes, with no reference to Espio being a Detective in Chaotix. Again, supports the idea that the SE versions were ignored. 

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I don't agree with the notion that Dr Eggman needs to be in everything. I get that he's popular and works as a go-to villain, but it feels kind of repetitive to have Sonic fight the same guy all the time. How about someone new for a change?

And before anyone brings it up, I'm not a fan of it happening with Mario and Mega Man either.

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17 minutes ago, Splash the Otter said:

I don't agree with the notion that Dr Eggman needs to be in everything. I get that he's popular and works as a go-to villain, but it feels kind of repetitive to have Sonic fight the same guy all the time. How about someone new for a change?

And before anyone brings it up, I'm not a fan of it happening with Mario and Mega Man either.

The defense of such a thing would be non-existent. Plus Mario gets plenty of different villains in spin-offs...and there's always a villain besides Eggman in most 3D games.

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11 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Eggman doesn't need to be in everything, necessarily, but he shouldn't be treated like he's disposable or replaceable, either. Eggman's not just popular or convenient, he's the antagonist of the series, a role second only to the protagonist.

I know, I'm just tired of seeing him all the time and I feel like his overall importance to the series is somewhat exaggerated.

2 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

The defense of such a thing would be non-existent. Plus Mario gets plenty of different villains in spin-offs...and there's always a villain besides Eggman in most 3D games.

Yes, but those are always oneshot villains and Eggman is still in most of those games anyway. IMO we need more games where he doesn't show up at all, and more recurring villains with no connection to him or his empire.

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On 20/2/2018 at 11:23 AM, Iko said:

Unpopular opinion: I don't like Amy. I like the other female characters, Blaze, Cream, Rouge (even if honestly Rouge is not my favorite due to her oversexualized design), even minor ones like Marine, I just can't stand Amy.

-First of all, I like variety in the Sonic cast, and I'm not a big fan of making many characters based on the same species (there are way too many hedgehog characters); Blaze is a cat like Big, but they look nothing alike... Big is probably a Maine Coon, considering the shape of his ears, while Blaze is a more generic type of cat.

-Second, she debuted as a Sonic recolor, as a fanservice character (love interest, shipping), and especially as a Minnie Mouse type character (gender swap version of the main character that looks exactly like him but female) wich I'm not a fan of; I can't stand to people who say Amy should be more relevant an be always in the spotlight, and Shadow is a recolor shonen clone that should be retired... they are both in the same boat to me, if Shadow is a recolor, Amy is too, they are both fanservice characters (an hammer can make the difference gameplay wise, but not character design wise); even with the jump into modern era, she got a different hairstyle, but I still fail to see her uniqueness... different hairstyle and dress is IMO a weak solution to make a character look unique, it's still a female Sonic to me.

-Her personality has never been consistent, changing from game to game, and most of the different personalities are annoying or boring. She's also very stereotypical in a very annoying way, compared to the other female characters.

-I disagree with that trend that became more and more popular recently, people who say that Knuckles should leave the main cast and Amy should replace him; it wouldn't make any sense in a design point of view; even if canon wise Knuckles is stuck on Angel Island, according to the image of the franchise, he is a main character; plot and canon are secondary... it's like saying that Luigi should be removed from the Mario series because he's too scared to go into adventure, just no. Even the color scheme is better if you consider Knuckles instead of Amy: ### vs ###, would you imagine the Sonic Heroes logo with pink instead of red?

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-I disagree with people who give her huge merits reguarding her role in the Adventure games: in Adventure 1 she's just trying to trick Gamma into opening the cell, there is no empathy or feelings involved, she is just tricking the robot with words; the robot is flawed and part of the flicky's personality comes out occasionally, so he decides to free Amy... Tikal may have influenced his action as well, if you play through Gamma's story you can see that the visions happen to Gamma as well and they play a huge role in the robot turning good... but Amy has nothing to do with this; otherwise, she's just being obsessive about her love for Sonic in the rest of the game; In Adventure 2 it's the same, she's trying to trick Shadow into helping the others, everyone is going to die, she has nothing to lose, and as she says in the game, she's doing this because "everyone is doing their best", let's try doing something too, not because "Shadow is sad, let's comfort him". Shadow changes his mind because Amy says a couple of words that for pure luck are the same words said by Maria, and Shadow gains back his lost memories; again, just luck, not Amy's merit; Amy freeing Sonic from the prison is still part of her obsession: "I'll free you if you marry me".

-She was supposed to be weak, not a fighter; her hammer was a joke weapon, she had problems at destroying 1 robot (Zero) in Sonic Adventure, while other characters destroy hordes of them with no effort. Each game, she becomes more and more an overpowered Mary-Sue, and her hammer now became a real weapon, so much that she's now considered a power type character by some people. Even personality-wise, with people complaining about her being a Sonic fangirl, they toned that aspect down, making her super serious and flawless, her Boom version is the most out of character of all, and that personality had some influence in Forces as well; Amy has been an obsessive fangirl since Sonic CD but most of her fans refuse to accept it.

-She introduces romance in the Sonic series, and I think it's unfitting and unnecessary. Fans go crazy with shipping the two characters, and that may be one of the reasons why she's so beloved, though I like my Sonic games being about Sonic and friends trying to stop Eggman and save the world, shipping is not what I want from Sonic.

-I don't like when people say that Cream is Amy's sidekick or best friends, there is little to no evidence of this in official media, they are friends offcourse but most of the times the two are shown on their own, not together. I don't know if it comes from Sonic X, sonic comics, obscure spin-offs or what.

The only thing that I like about Amy, is her gameplay in Sonic Advance 1.

While I (kinda) like Amy, I agree wholeheartedly with you. Though I don't hate her character, I truly wonder what Amy has ever done to qualify as a main character in the modern games from SA1-onwards, specially when in the classics she was barely present aside spinoffs such as the Sonic Drift series or Sonic the Fighters, and the only relevant role she had was being the damsel-in-distress in Sonic CD.

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9 hours ago, StaticMania said:

Pointless as in...holding the run button just plays the animation and it's not even really the ability.

It is a real ability, but it's just so useless and pointless that you haven't noticed it.

If you hold down the run button for a couple of seconds whilst stationary, sparks and dustclouds will begin to appear underneath Sonic's feet. When you push the analogue stick, Sonic will jet off at an instantly top speed. If you start running before the dust clouds have appeared or just run from a stand-still, Sonic won't be at top speed instantly.

Virtually pointless, but it still does something. If you bear with me a short while for the game to download on Steam, I'll record an example of what I mean.

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54 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Oh, so that actually makes a difference? 

Uh, that's pretty bad. Jeez.

Considering how low his top speed is too...

Exactly. By the time that you've fully charged a peel-out, you're actually way behind where you would have been without charging. And Sonic reaches top speed so quickly without charging that you won't catch up to lost time.

Here's a quick video:

I was wrong about the details before. The sparks and dust clouds always show up, and the peel-out is fully charged when the blur effect appears on Sonic's feet.

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On 2/22/2018 at 1:57 AM, VEDJ-F said:

I don't think he's ever said that they were pre-existing characters (although they were) or were used incorrectly.

 

I'm 90% sure of it, but it was from years ago. It was definitely in video form, but I haven't had any luck finding it on Youtube. A lot of Summer of Sonic/Sonic Boom stuff just seems to be gone. I have a feeling it might have been in one of those mini-interviews specific fansites conducted during Summer of Sonics.

 

On 2/22/2018 at 1:57 AM, VEDJ-F said:

Summer of Sonic 2016 has an interesting supplement; I asked about how the decisions were made for the personalities and dynamics in Heroes, and his answer was that they were already in the design doc and their abilities and personalities were already laid out there to just slide them into the game, aside from Espio who was given a twist by being made a ninja (something supported by an earlier Hoshino interview, which specifically said he was made a ninja because of his existing samurai-like conduct). Given that Chaotix (game) had very different personalities for Espio and Charmy (and traits for Vector) in the Japanese version as well as English, it's safe to assume the design doc for Sonic Team had been established prior and the SEGA Enterprises interpretation was ignored. 

 

Yeah, listening to the 2016 Q&A, what Iizuka says seems to match up with what I remember from the older interview. Specifically, all three characters being created by Sonic Team and existing in design documents. 

 

The one I remember, the gist was basically that Vector/Charmy/Espio were created by Sonic Team prior to Chaotix, but in Chaotix they were used in a way that differed from Sonic Team's intentions, so in Sonic Heroes they ignored all that and used them the way they, Sonic Team, envisioned them. I just wish I could find the video!

 

We know Vector and Charmy's real world origins, but Espio is still the big mystery, as far as I'm aware.

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The bits about Chaotix originally being created by Sonic Team are really interesting. If anyone finds a link where Iizuka mentions this, please share it, as I too would also love to see it. 

 

On 2/22/2018 at 1:57 AM, VEDJ-F said:

Summer of Sonic 2016 has an interesting supplement; I asked about how the decisions were made for the personalities and dynamics in Heroes, and his answer was that they were already in the design doc and their abilities and personalities were already laid out there to just slide them into the game, aside from Espio who was given a twist by being made a ninja (something supported by an earlier Hoshino interview, which specifically said he was made a ninja because of his existing samurai-like conduct). Given that

@VEDJ-F Do you have links for where you asked the question. Or a link to the Hoshino interview? Thanks!

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11 hours ago, Pengi said:

I'm 90% sure of it, but it was from years ago. It was definitely in video form, but I haven't had any luck finding it on Youtube. A lot of Summer of Sonic/Sonic Boom stuff just seems to be gone. I have a feeling it might have been in one of those mini-interviews specific fansites conducted during Summer of Sonics.

The one I remember, the gist was basically that Vector/Charmy/Espio were created by Sonic Team prior to Chaotix, but in Chaotix they were used in a way that differed from Sonic Team's intentions, so in Sonic Heroes they ignored all that and used them the way they, Sonic Team, envisioned them. I just wish I could find the video!

Ah, right. Well, I can still scout around if that's the case. I should have some spare time today which works out nicely for a search. 

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We know Vector and Charmy's real world origins, but Espio is still the big mystery, as far as I'm aware.

I think the only thing mentioned about Espio so far was that he was designed to look cool, so seems to have been design with a protagonist role in mind (as opposed to Vector and Charmy, who seem to initially have been supporting characters). Otherwise, yeah, he's just a big void of nothing where we're not even sure who designed him. 

2 hours ago, big_smile said:

@VEDJ-F Do you have links for where you asked the question. Or a link to the Hoshino interview? Thanks!

The link for the Chaotix question I asked this Youtube video.

Yeah, I didn't ask it directly (I wish I could be so lucky!), but it was chosen from the Summer of Sonic question submission batch, and there's no mistaking that it's my question. The question starts at 11:47.

The Hoshino interview is harder to link to because I believe it's currently only contained in a book right now (that Mega Drive/Genesis Collected Works thing), no-one's scanned it or written it up. 

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Thanks! I remember hearing that Q&A. At the time I didn't know what they meant by original design doc, but it makes sense after your explanation. 

 

Quote

The Hoshino interview is harder to link to because I believe it's currently only contained in a book right now (that Mega Drive/Genesis Collected Works thing), 

Does this book contain a low of Chaotix/Sonic content? I know it had all the storyboards for the original games (which were photographed and shared online).  I wasn't sure what else it contained. (It's on my list of things to buy, but I haven't got around to it yet).

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I actually like the gunplay in Shadow the Hedgehog. It works for the purpose it's there for and is the one thing the game actually manages to pull off competently, both from a gameplay and technical perspective. Too bad the rest of the game is Shadow the Hedgehog.

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Popular or unpopular, I've come to the conclusion that Takeshi Iizuka is no longer fit to be running the Sonic series, if he ever was in the first place. His comments, and what he's been doing with the series speaks of someone who has no clear idea what he's doing with it, and doesn't have a clear vision for it.

Which brings me to another opinion. I know there are several groups of fans that all constantly disagree with each other...and I feel part of that is a lack of an idea of what to do with it. I think, more than anything, the series needs a leader who actually has a clear and solid idea what they want to do with it, and actually has a clear idea of what works and what doesn't. Takeshi Iizuka is not that person, I don't think.

That's my opinion. I know you can't please everyone, but I feel like people are more willing to accept it if the team leader(s) at least have a clear vision for the Sonic series. Which I feel Iizuka does not have at all.

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My unpopular opinions

Roger is the best voice we've had for Sonic yet

Big is a good character

Shadow needs a retcon

Antoine is the most underrated freedom fighters

Post reboot was better than most of pre reboot

Other characters need games without Sonic such as a Tomb Raider style adventure game for Knux

The last of their kind trope is over used with Knuckles and characters like Shade and Ix should return

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I kind of wished Shadow didn't hog the spotlight whenever Team Dark is present. It seems that he's the only one of his team allowed to be in the central role and have his arc, especially in the comics and '06. The guy got his own game; granted it wasn't that good. 

I understand that this is because of how popular Shadow is, especially in Japan, but I would like to see an arc centered around Rouge and her own struggles and maybe expand on Omega's story a bit.

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On 3/23/2018 at 11:35 PM, Atharun said:

My unpopular opinions

Roger is the best voice we've had for Sonic yet

Big is a good character

Shadow needs a retcon

Antoine is the most underrated freedom fighters

Post reboot was better than most of pre reboot

Other characters need games without Sonic such as a Tomb Raider style adventure game for Knux

The last of their kind trope is over used with Knuckles and characters like Shade and Ix should return

Thank you!

 

On 3/23/2018 at 11:35 PM, Atharun said:

My unpopular opinions

Roger is the best voice we've had for Sonic yet

Big is a good character

Shadow needs a retcon

Antoine is the most underrated freedom fighters

Post reboot was better than most of pre reboot

Other characters need games without Sonic such as a Tomb Raider style adventure game for Knux

The last of their kind trope is over used with Knuckles and characters like Shade and Ix should return

Don't agree with these, though

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I dunno if 'Twan's really that underrated, it pretty much depends about the 'Twan in question and what tastes people have considering characterisations.

I think as long as a character has at least some fans they aren't completely underrated the very least. And I know Antoine has fans.

I should know. B)

But then again, this is just my personal way of viewing this topic in question.

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Antoine is one of those characters that's VERY divisive, especially since he comes in two very different flavours.

He's either a bumbling cowardly egotist only good for comic relief, and a suave competent (if not incredibly remarkable) swordsman.

Another issue is that the Sonic series, since Satam, has come to have loads of more noteworthy cases of either comic relief or effective heroes, so he's gradually started looking more vanilla, even if he's arguably still got more character than Bunnie, Rotor, Dulcy, and maybe even Sally at times.

 

I'm seriously hoping if the Freedom Fighters return they'll try to branch them out more, they spent way too much time as straight men or 'norms' in Archie.

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Maybe they were uncounciously compensating for the early Archie Sonic shenanigans. Back then they were all acting bit crazy in the FF, prolly it was one of expectations set for the newcomers. :D

But yeah, it does count there're more than one version out there, especially in this case.

It would've been nice to see if the FF would've got more long-term growing considering the personalities considering they were going to get a SU arc, but well I digress. It seems like some stuff will never end up being delivered, I'm kinda waiting to see how long the IDW will take before Sega throws it away as well, for reason or another.

Anyway, I suppose for any character that's "bipolar-like" in this way as he is, audience is bound to get divided. I do find both versions interesting but I really enjoyed the fact how he mentally evolved in pre-reboot (and assumedly in post-reboot before the timeline as well) rather than becoming seemingly even crazier as far as I can tell. Some of those episodes...

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