Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[Silvereyes]

1 minute ago, RedFox99 said:

I think SA1 is better game than SA2.

I agree. I think both are good games, but I do like SA1's story a bit better, I like how Tails and Amy play, I like exploring the hub worlds, and it has a lot of variety in it with the various character playstyles, and set pieces like snowboarding, the kart racing bit, Sky Chase and the first 3D Super Sonic final level.

[RedFox99]

6 minutes ago, silvereye27 said:

I agree. I think both are good games, but I do like SA1's story a bit better, I like how Tails and Amy play, I like exploring the hub worlds, and it has a lot of variety in it with the various character playstyles, and set pieces like snowboarding, the kart racing bit, Sky Chase and the first 3D Super Sonic final level.

Truth be told, I think Knuckles has better levels in SA1.

[Silvereyes]

See, I'm not so sure about that. I think the big problem with Knuckles/Rouge in SA2 is the decision to make it that you can only find the Emerald pieces in a set order, whereas in SA1 you can find them in any order you please. Although saying that though, their space stages are just awful to navigate, and some of their other stages just feel very convoluted. Like, they feel more complicated to navigate, but not in a challenging or clever way, just in a very tedious time consuming way.

[E-122-Psi]

I think SA2 tried too hard to hard to go the other way from SA1. While SA1 was maybe a bit too free play and easy (you could wiz through most of Knuckles' levels in less than a minute the hiding places were that basic), SA2 tried to be more linear and intuitive, but to the point of being tedious and restrictive towards the players fun.

I kinda preferred how forgiving and simplistic SA1 was. Even Gamma's mode that had a time limit didn't rush you to much. You could pick things and go through them at your own pace. Even Big's I kinda liked because I didn't feel regimented into it. SA2 lays you a complicated rota and you're not allowed to deviate from it.

 

Another unpopular opinion, I don't get why people have such a hard time with Big's gameplay. Sure I struggled to figure out how to hook a fish first time I tried, but that lasted, like, a few minutes maybe before I got what to do, then it was pretty simple. The only time things get kinda unfair is the A missions if only because it gets a bit too luck based to find and hook one of the bigger fish.

[RedFox99]

13 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

Another unpopular opinion, I don't get why people have such a hard time with Big's gameplay. Sure I struggled to figure out how to hook a fish first time I tried, but that lasted, like, a few minutes maybe before I got what to do, then it was pretty simple. The only time things get kinda unfair is the A missions if only because it gets a bit too luck based to find and hook one of the bigger fish.

I found that the easiest thing to do is rotate the analog stick and mash the jump and action button. 

[E-122-Psi]

I was actually legit disappointed Chaos 6 didn't put up a fight for Big. That could have been an unique boss fight.

Oh, should have gave him a Sky Chase mini game after wards too.

[RedFox99]

3 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

I was actually legit disappointed Chaos 6 didn't put up a fight for Big. That could have been an unique boss fight.

Oh, should have gave him a Sky Chase mini game after wards too.

Yeah, but I just wanted to get Big's story done with.

[E-122-Psi]

Under principal I think every character should have gotten at least six or seven levels and a couple unique mini games (though I can't complain with the direction of at least trying to make Sonic's the most complete in the limited time they had).

Big would have been fine if they had made him a little faster and put in a little more platform focus in his levels (like in Hot Shelter which has a small on-foot segment at least). Something akin to Big's Fishing Derby could have made a cool mini game for Big.

[SonicMkIII.0]

Really, with Big, the only stage that’s difficult is Twinkle Park, and that’s only because you’re learning the controls, which are so different. Every other stage of his is relatively simple to navigate and complete (Icecap especially). I still dislike his gameplay, but it’s not terrible.

Edited May 20, 2018 by SonicMkIII.0
Elaborated my feelings further

[BaronGrackle]

In Sonic Adventure, I had more fun with Amy's levels than any other character. My only complaint is that she had so few.

[Harkofthewaa]

While we're on the subject of Big, I actually like the fishing stages. Adds some variety.

[Skull Leader]

*E-102's story in Sonic Adventure was pretty much the only succesful attempt from Sonic Team to feature actual depth by exploring the point of view from one of Eggman's creations, humanizing a bit the side of the bad guys. (For Star Wars fans, this is the equivalent of placing the focus on a stormtrooper)

*Amy in Sonic Adventure alone had more character development than Shadow in SA2, Heroes, StH and 06 combined.

*You DO NOT need to go fast in the classic games. I know Baron Grackle will agree with this one since, one of the many things that made the Genesis games enjoyable was just how flexible the were, leaving up to the player the choice of how to play: reach the goal as soon as possible, find alternate paths, find all rings/items, kill every single badnik/try to jot kill any, etc. It also helps that they gave the player up to 10 minutes to do as they please within each act.

*Popularity should never be a factor to decide which characters are to be used in a game/story. I personally feel that what their roles/personality can offer has much, much more weight when it comes to the story aspect, while for gameplay, the characters who can offer the most interesting variations and/or twists are the ones that should be prioritized.

*Personally, I think that Sonic Mania Plus has a cast of characters that is uninteresting both on their visual design (everyone is a male anthro with gloves and shoes... compared to that the Advance series had more visual variety) with Tails being the only one that manages to stand out a bit more from the rest, while in terms of gameplay, Sonic, Tails and Knuckles do what they have been doing every single time they appear as playable in the 2-D games (and in cases like Knuckles, he's downgraded as he can't even throw punches to display the ability after which he's named for) while Mighty and Ray, from what I've seen, follow the same old (and lazy) mold of having a character with different sprites (not so much in Mighty's case), all of Sonic exact same moves and one or two extra skills, with at least one character being yet another flight type.

[Marco9966]

I don't understand why people hate Big and use him as an excuse to put down Sonic Adventure!

Like, the game menu has a tutorial to show you how to properly play as Big, and not get lost or confused in his gameplay.

I opened the tutorial, then finished his story in 15 minutes!

People who say "alternate gameplay takes all the fun, I can't play as Sonic all the time" should put their bias aside.

Big (and any other character in SA1) takes a fraction of the time we play as Sonic!

[Biggs]

The Wisps in Sonic Colours were for the most part awesome powerups that added a lot of variety and strategy into the gameplay. It's only in subsequent games where they've been out of place and functionally questionable

[DabigRG]

 

 

12 hours ago, Harkofthewaa said:

While we're on the subject of Big, I actually like the fishing stages. Adds some variety.

I enjoy them as well too.

10 hours ago, Skull Leader said:

*E-102's story in Sonic Adventure was pretty much the only succesful attempt from Sonic Team to feature actual depth by exploring the point of view from one of Eggman's creations, humanizing a bit the side of the bad guys. (For Star Wars fans, this is the equivalent of placing the focus on a stormtrooper)

*Amy in Sonic Adventure alone had more character development than Shadow in SA2, Heroes, StH and 06 combined.

*You DO NOT need to go fast in the classic games. I know Baron Grackle will agree with this one since, one of the many things that made the Genesis games enjoyable was just how flexible the were, leaving up to the player the choice of how to play: reach the goal as soon as possible, find alternate paths, find all rings/items, kill every single badnik/try to jot kill any, etc. It also helps that they gave the player up to 10 minutes to do as they please within each act.

*Popularity should never be a factor to decide which characters are to be used in a game/story. I personally feel that what their roles/personality can offer has much, much more weight when it comes to the story aspect, while for gameplay, the characters who can offer the most interesting variations and/or twists are the ones that should be prioritized.

*Personally, I think that Sonic Mania Plus has a cast of characters that is uninteresting both on their visual design (everyone is a male anthro with gloves and shoes... compared to that the Advance series had more visual variety) with Tails being the only one that manages to stand out a bit more from the rest, while in terms of gameplay, Sonic, Tails and Knuckles do what they have been doing every single time they appear as playable in the 2-D games (and in cases like Knuckles, he's downgraded as he can't even throw punches to display the ability after which he's named for) while Mighty and Ray, from what I've seen, follow the same old (and lazy) mold of having a character with different sprites (not so much in Mighty's case), all of Sonic exact same moves and one or two extra skills, with at least one character being yet another flight type.

 

10 hours ago, Skull Leader said:

*Amy in Sonic Adventure alone had more character development than Shadow in SA2, Heroes, StH and 06 combined.

 

See, I'm honestly tied on trying to figure out which I should say to this, but I'll try:

On one hand, I'm not completely sure how Amy developed outside of having to essentially save the day for a little gal without Sonic's help and declare her intent to be more independent so he'd respect her. Which while certainly a significant step forward, especially for her character, I'm not quite sure there was much progression otherwise.

On the other hand, doesn't a character that wanted to help destroy the human race realizing they were mistaken about doing so swearing to help protect it instead and deciding to put their past behind them imply a lot more character development in either case alone?

10 hours ago, Skull Leader said:

 

*You DO NOT need to go fast in the classic games. I know Baron Grackle will agree with this one since, one of the many things that made the Genesis games enjoyable was just how flexible the were, leaving up to the player the choice of how to play: reach the goal as soon as possible, find alternate paths, find all rings/items, kill every single badnik/try to jot kill any, etc. It also helps that they gave the player up to 10 minutes to do as they please within each act.

The freedom/option to do that stuff is certainly there, yes.

6 hours ago, Marco9966 said:

I don't understand why people hate Big and use him as an excuse to put down Sonic Adventure!

Like, the game menu has a tutorial to show you how to properly play as Big, and not get lost or confused in his gameplay.

I opened the tutorial, then finished his story in 15 minutes!

People who say "alternate gameplay takes all the fun, I can't play as Sonic all the time" should put their bias aside.

Big (and any other character in SA1) takes a fraction of the time we play as Sonic!

Really, I'm pretty sure it's because he was overtly out of context and distant from what's expected of Sonic gameplay. 

Sonic nowadays is generally credited for at least two things: Speed and Exploration. Thus, all the other characters have an element of that, with Tails and Gamma in particular emphasizing Speed while Knuckles favors exploration. Even Amy, despite being a slower character with a different moveset, has a decent element of reaching a goal ingrained with her playstyle.

Meanwhile, Big is a slow moving character whose gameplay hinges on finding bodies of water to use a attract and reeling mechanic which comes with the risk of losing a life that no other character uses. And aesthetically speaking, he's a big, fat, and beady-eyed dark purple/violet cat with a more mundane air compared to the primarily sleek, bright, and, well, "attitude"-filled cast with Classic Sonic ties.

[Skull Leader]

No. I think you are confusing character development with the scale of the stories. For example, Amy saving a small bird might sound insignificant when compared to the plot of Shadow's entire story arc. However, which of the two characters displayed the most facets of their personality? Which one changed the most when compared to how they were when they made their debut?

Personally, I think Amy had the most growth and development as a character, while Shadow pretty much remained the same, with the only difference of him now fighting for the good guys since the focus on him was more about the plot than his personality. Heck, even his key moment in SA2 feels forced because of how he was fine with comitting genocide via a Gundam-style colony drop, but then changes because of what Amy said. Like, where is the transition to make the whole thing feel credible?

[E-122-Psi]

I don't mind slower moving characters so long as they keep to the same basic physics. I think Amy and Big should have been SLIGHTLY faster though, not to Sonic levels, just to standard platformer levels. Gamma could have had a compromise by having the same walking speed he has, but his rolling mode offering more of a boost (and maybe not being so easily hindered by terrain).

Other than that, I think level design owed a bit to it. Besides some of Amy's levels, most of the characters' levels were blatantly just smaller and slightly modified versions of Sonic's. It did help keep them a bit consistent with Sonic's gameplay but it did also leave less potential to used. Usually their final levels shown a more developed attempt at showcasing their gameplay.

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I think Next Gen did a better job of interchanging character levels in terms of layout. Blaze's Wave Ocean is still  modified off of Sonic's for example, but it's more palpable in length and branches off in routes for her gameplay a lot more often than say, Gamma's Emerald Coast compared to Sonic's, which has one nice little unique pathway and then....is just over.

[Celestia]

It does say something that Shadow was willing to go that far, of course, but it's complicated by the fact that Gerald reprogrammed him to do all that. I think it's a bit convenient to leave out the part where he realizes that Maria didn't ask for him to avenge her, she hoped he would make the world a better place.

Amy's development was more natural but also she's not an artificial lifeform, so, I mean... ;P

Seriously though, yeah, the world didn't really mean much to Shadow outside of Maria caring about it. I wish he got an arc where he decides to travel, and along the way he'd learn to appreciate the world. Y'know fulfill his promise, but also become his own person. That could've been a thing in his game even. Instead--among other things--they went full on amnesia plot because "Uhhhh he had memory problems in SA2 right? Let's just do that again."

[SenEDDtor Missile]

3 minutes ago, Celestia said:

It does say something that Shadow was willing to go that far, of course, but it's complicated by the fact that Gerald reprogrammed him to do all that. I think it's a bit convenient to leave out the part where he realizes that Maria didn't ask for him to avenge her, she hoped he would make the world a better place.

Amy's development was more natural but also she's not an artificial lifeform, so, I mean...

But yeah the world didn't really mean much to Shadow outside of Maria caring about it. I wish he got an arc where he decides to travel, and along the way he'd learn to appreciate the world. Y'know fulfill his promise, but also become his own person. That could've been a thing in his game even. Instead--among other things--they went full on amnesia plot because "Uhhhh he had memory problems in SA2 right? Let's just do that again."

Could also be a good way to provide a conflict between the goal he wants to fulfill for Maria and his own cynicism towards other people outside of his small inner circle. He may well be willing to follow her last wish, but that doesn't mean his own failings as a person wouldn't end up coloring his decisions related to that wish, or affect his judgment.

[DabigRG]

1 hour ago, Skull Leader said:

No. I think you are confusing character development with the scale of the stories. For example, Amy saving a small bird might sound insignificant when compared to the plot of Shadow's entire story arc. However, which of the two characters displayed the most facets of their personality? Which one changed the most when compared to how they were when they made their debut?

 

Eh, not really, but then again there is such a thing as character-driven plots.

To answer the first question, Amy. To answer the second, still probably Shadow, depending on what you wanna count. 

1 hour ago, Skull Leader said:

 

Personally, I think Amy had the most growth and development as a character, while Shadow pretty much remained the same, with the only difference of him now fighting for the good guys since the focus on him was more about the plot than his personality. 

I guess I see what you're trying to get at...?

Still, "infatuated girl who doesn't really do much beyond following her hero to infatuated girl who follows her hero and inspires others with her pluck" isn't that big of a leap, as far as I can tell. She basically got older and more assertive about what she wants and believes in. 

1 hour ago, Skull Leader said:

Heck, even his key moment in SA2 feels forced because of how he was fine with comitting genocide via a Gundam-style colony drop, but then changes because of what Amy said. Like, where is the transition to make the whole thing feel credible?

To be fair, she essentially jogged his memory there. Though I know later interpretations apparently imply that Gerald deliberately screwed with his memory to have him think Maria wanted the opposite, the game itself presented in a way where it seems like Shadow was putting his own anger at what happened in place of where a gap in his memory was.

Beforehand, he was content to stand around and just let the others try to stop the Ark's collision course.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

4 hours ago, Skull Leader said:

No. I think you are confusing character development with the scale of the stories. For example, Amy saving a small bird might sound insignificant when compared to the plot of Shadow's entire story arc. However, which of the two characters displayed the most facets of their personality?

 

No, he has it right. Character development is the change a character goes though in the story. And if you’re including SA2, Heroes (eh...), ShTH, and 06, then yeah Shadow definitely had the most development. Not exactly the best development since they tacked on a bunch of extra stuff on him that came out of nowhere with his game, but far more if you’re just comparing Amy’s development only in SA1.

As for who showed the most facets of the character? Hard to say given we’ve seen a lot of it from both characters.

Quote

Which one changed the most when compared to how they were when they made their debut?

Shadow. Guy went from anti-villain wanting to kill humanity, to anti-hero driven to protect it, even under the potential that they might fear and turn on him in the future. That’s a major change entirely, and is apples to oranges compared to Amy’s arc in SA1 where it sums up to her standing up and fighting her pursuer, Zero, as opposed to running away like she did all game in her quest to find Birdy’s family—especially when Shadow’s was far more traumatic by comparison. You’re essentially saying that a character overcoming the death of loved ones has less development than a character standing up for themselves against an adversary.

Quote

Personally, I think Amy had the most growth and development as a character, while Shadow pretty much remained the same, with the only difference of him now fighting for the good guys since the focus on him was more about the plot than his personality. Heck, even his key moment in SA2 feels forced because of how he was fine with comitting genocide via a Gundam-style colony drop, but then changes because of what Amy said. Like, where is the transition to make the whole thing feel credible?

When he remembers what Maria really meant instead of what he originally thought she meant and went out to correct his error before it was too late—I don’t see how a character preventing attempted omnicide by their very own hand and fighting for people alongside the heroes isn’t a huge change in itself. And Amy herself didn’t change much either given that while she now fights she still goes on chasing Sonic down every chance she got.

[SBR2]

Can't remember if I already posted this but I guess this is unpopular but I actually like Sonic as a character. 

I think he's a great Character. His snarky personality is great and I love how he might be cocky but also really does care about his friends. 

[NezumiVA]

My unpopular opinion is none of the franchise's history really makes me that angry.
Neither do any of the games. 

I dislike Shadow and 06 and have some mixed bag opinions all around...
but I still enjoy a majority of the franchise, and even some more mediocre entries like Forces offer enough in the way of charm or individual aspects I enjoy to justify them as enjoyable to me.

I've never quite seen a fanbase as strict about needing their opinions to be black or white or even just downright polarizing as the Sonic fanbase is.
It seems like lately, you just have a huge divide of people who either love the Adventure/Early Modern stuff and think Classic Sonic is too difficult or boring, or Classic Fans who think anything that has Sonic in it that's got 3D characters models is the devil itself.

I've liked Sonic for a long time, and I like plenty of Sonic things from every period of time.
Heck, some of those things I don't even find to be very great I just enjoy them for the kicks or merits I got out of them, because I really like Sonic as a whole.

Sonic fandom is just so angry all the time, lol, I feel like so many people could benefit from just taking a step back and breathing.

[DabigRG]

I actually kinda think Cream fit in better among the Freedom Fighters than the other SEGA characters barring maybe Tails.

[RedFox99]

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

I actually kinda think Cream fit in better among the Freedom Fighters than the other SEGA characters barring maybe Tails.

The issue I had was that she often br told by the others to stay back and not do anything.