Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[E-122-Psi]

3 hours ago, Skull Leader said:

Even more serious works like Akira Kurosawa's Seven Samurai film had a very particular character in Kikuchiyo who unlike the other more dignified samurai, was meant from the very start to be rude, had an ego, was loud, etc  (providing comic relief and essentially being the best character of the film) as well as having his fair share of virtues.

There are some funny variations however. I mean take the Kung Fu Panda films and look at Po and Tigress' dynamic. While Tigress is blatantly more serious and experienced than Po, who is a complete clown, they still convey her a flawed character who is developing from him almost as much as vice versa. Granted that might also be because Tigress is still a bit 'comically serious' so still free game.

I think it's the whole reflexive heirarchy in writing casts, if you're comical and over the top, you're the incompetent comic relief, and if you're serious, you're the dignified straight man that gets all the important roles and never humiliates yourself. There's no middle grounds or moderation that flaws and intellect come in many different flavours (eg. for ego, you can be self righteous about your ideals and NOT be a narcissist about your appearance and skills, and you can be educated and highly intellectual in one area and still be a complete dunce in another).

I think Boom Sonic and Tails was also one of the franchise's best attempts at a 'brains and brawn' dynamic with Sonic and other character, since there's balance and feeling both even the other out. Sonic is reckless and arrogant, but Tails is really over fixated in his (not always reliable) machines, giving him a bit of complexity addiction compared to how more simple thinking Sonic is. I liked that one instance he made a cleaning robot that turned vicious, when Sonic beat it and left Tails with even MORE mess, he was advised to just use a broom like everyone else. It's not stupid vs smart, it's intellect coming in different forms, and simple-thinking vs meticulous-thinking that isn't just reckless vs careful.

 

Concerning the Silver theoretical however, I think that's just a case of the franchise failing miserably to write anti-heroes well, and not getting the balance between misguided but still sympathetic, making them more villains that get off scot free because they show a smidgen of conscience under pressure (eg. Shadow being treated as redeemable enough to welcome onto the team with no grudges in Sonic X, after sadistically chasing Cosmo and trying to kill her in cold blood. For the greater good sure, but that was not acted out begrudgingly like a man with well intent but more a psychopath that liked having an ethical excuse to kill someone like hunting game). Eggman, though also having enemy mines, does not get that benefit of doubt, but that's less because he's comical and more because he's the designated bad guy and Shadow/Silver/Rouge whoever are the designated anti-hero. The cast are written to know he'll likely not become their friend.

It sorta falls into the same sort of writing issue however, designating roles for characters, not letting their own characterisation decide it.

[Guergy]

While I don't necessarily hate the boost games, I do agree that the Boost gameplay does have some flaws of its own. The boost levels feel very linear and don't really have any alternate paths at least for a few levels, I also hate the 2D sections of levels despite being advertised as a 3D game experience.

[Iko]

I think that the Phantom Ruby has some potential and it's more interesting than the Wisps.

I think that it should stay in the series even in future games, as long as it isn't overused.

It should not be used as a story element, instead it should be used in level design: to be more precise, I'd like to see some ruby-enhanced badniks who can summon other badniks and alter the environment by using the Phantom Ruby, and when you defeat them, every illusion disappears and the real world is shown. Especially, badniks who can transform the whole stage into an underwateer stage (or into a spike maze, or a bullet hell, or whatever you want) unless you defeat them or go far enough.

Not every level/game should have it, but in some specific zones it could work well... I can see it work awesomely into a desert themed zone, simulating mirages, especially enhancing the contrast between desert (real world) and water (illusion).

[Sonic Fan J]

Definitely a likely unpopular opinion here, but I'm actually good with every character being a Sonic clone. Been watching some Metal Slug 2 of late and find that I really just enjoy having a solid gameplay experience where all you need to differentiate the characters is their appearance and mannerisms. Considering I think Sonic has the best gameplay as it is (especially when talking about the classics) I would have no real problem with everyone being clones of him. 

In a slightly different vein, as much as I use the Spin Dash, I actually think the 2D games would be better without it  (or equivalents like the boost) as it would bring back a focus on environment obstacles that the player has to figure out how to overcome just using the basics of run, jump, and roll. I actually find that he Spin Dash reduces the level of interactivity with the games and undermines Sonic and the player's ability to visually solve environmental obstacles and puzzles.

[Your Vest Friend]

I'm not particularly eager to get Maekawa back on writing to be honest. I acknowledge that I liked his era of writing more than the Pontaff, but the solution to that is to sort out the Western side of things (and not necessarily by dragging Ian in either). 

[DabigRG]

6 minutes ago, VEDJ-F said:

I'm not particularly eager to get Maekawa back on writing to be honest. I acknowledge that I liked his era of writing more than the Pontaff, but the solution to that is to sort out the Western side of things (and not necessarily by dragging Ian in either). 

Holy crud, I thought this might be someone new or something.

[jgcatindig]

Unpopular Opinion(disagree):

Elise's kiss on Sonic was just fine. Added nothing, subtracted nothing. Just. There. 

[StaticMania]

If it did nothing, then Sonic would've stayed dead.

Since it added something, it was pointless...

[Kazhnuz]

11 hours ago, VEDJ-F said:

I'm not particularly eager to get Maekawa back on writing to be honest.

To add on that: Even if I like him for his use of symbolism and stuff, I think that Meakawa wasn't really good at writing character who aren't essential to his plot. After SA2 his Tails became pretty boring, his Knuckles became more and more stupid with time, and it's like he didn't know what to do with Amy. ( But I liked how he created the differences between Blaze, Shadow and Knuckles through their equivalent in Black Knight. )

[DabigRG]

2 hours ago, Kazhnuz said:

 and it's like he didn't know what to do with Amy. ( But I liked how he created the differences between Blaze, Shadow and Knuckles through their equivalent in Black Knight. )

Mind elaborating on that?

[G.U.N. Commander Gogol]

Unpopular opinions of mine:
1. US soundtrack was better. 

2. Shadow the Hedgehog was a good game: shooting things with guns while being fast black edgy Sanic was the best shit, especially with badass hard rock/heavy metal soundtrack.

3. SatAM is extremely underrated. Dark, relatively mature show with memorable characters such as Jim Cummings's Robotnik - the only one of 'em who looks like a real threat.  I mean, a fucking Terminator with glowing red eyes, implanted lazor-weaponry and voice of Rasputin - how could you not like him? The show is only as good as it's villain so SatAM receive 5 out of 5 from me. 

[StaticMania]

You're misusing the word underrated...more people praise that show than give it flack.

[DabigRG]

6 minutes ago, G.U.N. Commander Radinov said:

Unpopular opinions of mine:
1. US soundtrack was better. 

2. Shadow the Hedgehog was a good game: shooting things with guns while being fast black edgy Sanic was the best shit, especially with badass hard rock/heavy metal soundtrack.

3. SatAM is extremely underrated. Dark, relatively mature show with memorable characters such as Jim Cummings's Robotnik - the only one of 'em who looks like a real threat.  I mean, a fucking Terminator with glowing red eyes, implanted lazor-weaponry and voice of Rasputin - how could you not like him? The show is only as good as it's villain so SatAM receive 5 out of 5 from me. 

Took me a second to remember who Rasputin was.

Also, American Sonic is Hardcore.

[G.U.N. Commander Gogol]

3 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

You're misusing the word underrated...more people praise that show than give it flack.

I don't know where you were gathering intel for your claim, but I saw shit like this

>it's not sanic cuz no funky jazz and too dark lol coldsteel the edgeheg nothin personell it's not a phase too soulless and american it's not an anime

a hundred of times on Youtube and forums - you can google it yourself. 

[StaticMania]

Recent bashing is just as plentiful as praise...

No citations necessary...

[G.U.N. Commander Gogol]

[redacted] sry, misunderstood the sentence 

No, bashing is more common than praising for SatAM. The usual way of discussing SatAM considers it's comparison with OVA with inevitable conclussion that OVA "was sanic" and SatAM "wasn't", OVA "had a soul" and SatAM "hadn't".

[E-122-Psi]

1 hour ago, G.U.N. Commander Radinov said:

Unpopular opinions of mine:
1. US soundtrack was better. 

2. Shadow the Hedgehog was a good game: shooting things with guns while being fast black edgy Sanic was the best shit, especially with badass hard rock/heavy metal soundtrack.

3. SatAM is extremely underrated. Dark, relatively mature show with memorable characters such as Jim Cummings's Robotnik - the only one of 'em who looks like a real threat.  I mean, a fucking Terminator with glowing red eyes, implanted lazor-weaponry and voice of Rasputin - how could you not like him? The show is only as good as it's villain so SatAM receive 5 out of 5 from me. 

The thing is though, nearly every interpretation of Sonic has a good Eggman/Robotnik to hold it up at least slightly, just HOW they're good varies, because sinister =/= Good villain.

For an unpopular opinion though, I don't think Satam Robotnik was that threatening, as a entity maybe but not as an individual. It felt too much like plot armour or idiot ball moments by the heroes were the reason he was in control, otherwise he made even dumber mistakes than the more comedic Eggman archetypes, and the moment the show wanted him to fail, Sonic usually trounced him just as easily. I didn't really feel this desperate struggle for control many claim the show had with the heroes against their Robotnik, even if giving them occasional bittersweet victories was interesting.

I mean, Cummings used the exact same voice and personality for a Winnie the Pooh villain, it was creepy and effective in setting an atmosphere yes, but it was aesthetics.

 

And one more thing, while this is more general opinion than Sonic, I hate HATE the 'show is only as good as the villain' ethic, if largely because so many shows, often cartoons, use it as an excuse to leave their heroes as dull reactive only characters with the far more charismatic and developed villains making the whole plot for them (and in some cases even defeating themselves for them if they're TRULY lacking in agency). I hate when the character we're supposed to be rooting for is about as fun as a brick as an individual. In fact I appreciate Sonic Boom just for trying some episodes just focused on the heroes without Eggman or another villain pivoting everything, and them NOT being as boring as hell.

[shdowhunt60]

5 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

And one more thing, while this is more general opinion than Sonic, I hate HATE the 'show is only as good as the villain' ethic, if largely because so many shows, often cartoons, use it as an excuse to leave their heroes as dull reactive only characters with the far more charismatic and developed villains making the whole plot for them (and in some cases even defeating themselves for them if they're TRULY lacking in agency). I hate when the character we're supposed to be rooting for is about as fun as a brick as an individual. In fact I appreciate Sonic Boom just for trying some episodes just focused on the heroes without Eggman or another villain pivoting everything, and them NOT being as boring as hell.

That bugs me too, because stories should be about the protagonist. The antagonist should be secondary. Stories at their core are about problem solving, it's the antagonist's job to present the problem, and the protagonist to solve it. That makes the protagonist the most important figure in the story, and if you fail to present your protagonist in a way that's interesting then you've failed.

[Guergy]

I like Satam but I really hate how we will never get a season 3 due to Ben Hurst being dead.

[E-122-Psi]

1 hour ago, shdowhunt60 said:

That bugs me too, because stories should be about the protagonist. The antagonist should be secondary. Stories at their core are about problem solving, it's the antagonist's job to present the problem, and the protagonist to solve it. That makes the protagonist the most important figure in the story, and if you fail to present your protagonist in a way that's interesting then you've failed.

I mean I don't mind a sympathetic antagonist that gets a lot of limelight, but a lot of writers seem to consider making the story sympathise COMPLETELY with the antagonist an revolutionary direction, when actually it's often relatively easy compared to making the fine balance with a hero that is both flawed and fallible but still effective and likeable enough that the audience want them to win (Sonic characters are not immune to this, in particular Sonic himself whose criticisms totter between being too bland and goody goody, or acting like a complete tool).

People often say it's the villain's charm and plotting that can make or break a plot, but often I decide as much on how the heroes beat it. I mean if we get a charismatic villain who pulls off this tremendous scheme with tons of flare, and then a boring shmuck of a hero wins in seconds through a deus ex machina, that is not a gratifying face off.

[RedFox99]

7 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

In fact I appreciate Sonic Boom just for trying some episodes just focused on the heroes without Eggman or another villain pivoting everything, and them NOT being as boring as hell.

And even then I feel Eggman got way too many episodes.

[Kazhnuz]

On 9/8/2018 at 3:55 PM, DabigRG said:

Mind elaborating on that?

For Amy or for Blaze/Shadow/Knuckles ?

For Amy, it's that in his game, she is mostly "the girl of the group", with the different clichés we can get on it (being annoyed by the boy behavior, being the spark of morality for the anti-hero, having to be rescued), with some strange stuff often (the "Violent is Funny" that happens on some of the game she is here, or her talk about Sonic and the End of the World in 2006, that happens in Silver's Story, that is written by Maekawa). I won't talk about Sonic Battle and the "boxercise" fiasco because even if this game really looks like his writing (especially the symbolism and the pacifism), I'm not 100% sure that it is. But the few Maekawa games makes me feel that he doesn't have a real idea of how is Amy character-wise, and try to do what he can.

 

For Blaze/Shadow/Knuckles, one problem that is often shown about them is their superficial resemblance : both of three are kinda-loner, but more importantly duty-filled serious people. And that's what make them great as knight of the round table, as they all had this kind of "honor" that made them fit as knights (Silver would have been great in the story too). But what I liked even more is that Maekawa took this resemblance to show better how they are different people, right from the first cutscene.

For me the opening cutscene show how Gawain/Knuckles is the less "cold" of the three, openly doubting the order of the King (he listen more his heart, for me). Lancelot is the one for who the order are absolute. I think this is a way to make a parallel with the role of Shadow as a weapon, but how also he often obey orders (making him sometime misguided) and can be the most ruthless of the three. Percival state the rules, and how they are defined by loyalty to the King (IIRC in Rush Blaze also defined her by her role), but also see the problem. It show Blaze as the most cautious and reflexive of the three.

Buuut that might be just me over-analysing a cutscene

[Scape]

6 minutes ago, Kazhnuz said:

For Amy or for Blaze/Shadow/Knuckles ?

For Amy, it's that in his game, she is mostly "the girl of the group", with the different clichés we can get on it (being annoyed by the boy behavior, being the spark of morality for the anti-hero, having to be rescued), with some strange stuff often (the "Violent is Funny" that happens on some of the game she is here, or her talk about Sonic and the End of the World in 2006, that happens in Silver's Story, that is written by Maekawa). I won't talk about Sonic Battle and the "boxercise" fiasco because even if this game really looks like his writing (especially the symbolism and the pacifism), I'm not 100% sure that it is. But the few Maekawa games makes me feel that he doesn't have a real idea of how is Amy character-wise, and try to do what he can.

 

For Blaze/Shadow/Knuckles, one problem that is often shown about them is their superficial resemblance : both of three are kinda-loner, but more importantly duty-filled serious people. And that's what make them great as knight of the round table, as they all had this kind of "honor" that made them fit as knights (Silver would have been great in the story too). But what I liked even more is that Maekawa took this resemblance to show better how they are different people, right from the first cutscene.

For me the opening cutscene show how Gawain/Knuckles is the less "cold" of the three, openly doubting the order of the King (he listen more his heart, for me). Lancelot is the one for who the order are absolute. I think this is a way to make a parallel with the role of Shadow as a weapon, but how also he often obey orders (making him sometime misguided) and can be the most ruthless of the three. Percival state the rules, and how they are defined by loyalty to the King (IIRC in Rush Blaze also defined her by her role), but also see the problem. It show Blaze as the most cautious and reflexive of the three.

Buuut that might be just me over-analysing a cutscene

What does Nimue say about Amy then?

[Kazhnuz]

4 minutes ago, Scape said:

What does Nimue say about Amy then? 

Well, for me there was less of Amy in Nimue than of Knuckles/Blaze/Shadow in the Knights. But I would have to re-see the game, because I have to admit that I don't remember much about Nimue except her being more "calm" than Amy and serving to do a part of the exposition :')

[Scape]

57 minutes ago, Kazhnuz said:

Well, for me there was less of Amy in Nimue than of Knuckles/Blaze/Shadow in the Knights. But I would have to re-see the game, because I have to admit that I don't remember much about Nimue except her being more "calm" than Amy and serving to do a part of the exposition :')

* Uses Magic

* Had a hand in Sir Lancelot's development

* Trusted King Arthur, but he turned out to be a massive asshole

yeah sounds about right