Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[E-122-Psi]

For all the complaints towards 'the slap' in the Archie comics, I think it was perhaps the one time they successfully deconstructed Sally's original foibles, if in badly written soap opera way and perhaps not even fully intentionally.

Sally to me has always been the sympathetic control freak of the group, she wants to make sure her allies are safe and with good enough provocation from Robotnik and other forces, but she can be overbearing and sardonic about it, especially around Sonic, and can't always accept her own meticulous way isn't foolproof. Also like many control freaks she gets pretty frustrated when people or things don't cooperate, even if she often extremely humble and quick to apologise when it becomes obvious she is in the wrong.

So when she almost loses Sonic a second time, she puts up this concise plan out of fear, but not very well thought out off of paper, to marry him and keep him shut in from any harm. When Sonic naturally objects, she gets hurt and explodes that he insists fighting her attempts to protect him, and rather ironically causes a very long running rift among her friends that leaves her isolated and in emotional turmoil for quite some time.

I feel like the same basic premise but done in a different way could have really helped fleshed out Sally's character and made her seem more flawed in a consistent non-superficial way than most of Ian's kind of aimless attempts to show her making mistakes. Basically Sally insisting on 'bubble wrapping' her friends and taking the 'safe route' even when it blatantly wasn't working and her refusal to listen to her friends and insistance she knew what was best for them was causing riffs. Even just a simple mission against Robotnik/Eggman could have demonstrated this, especially if Robotnik was savvy enough to her own approach.

Even in terms of the slap itself, I feel it could have worked if it had a shot of her immediately sorry afterwards, at least until Sonic argued back at her for 'not getting it' and riled her up again, but both the direction and the artwork conveying her in full blown 'demon head' really did not help to make her look sympathetic.

Hell even this fan adaptation of a Christmas Carol found a clever way to play on Sally's work ethic, if obviously exaggerated:

 

[Red Hot Jack]

Sometimes I don't understand fans, they clearly don't want classic and modern crossovers after What happened with Forces, yet they want Mighty and Ray in modern titles? I agree that Classic stuff should stick to the Classic branch, and it's good this way, having a unique cast makes it original and more precious, you don't see Shadow or Blaze in the classic branch for a reason, or Mighty and Ray in modern games, simply because there is only a place for them in the branch they fit in. They can't be everywhere, the only ones who deserve to be everywhere are the main characters such as Sonic, Eggman, Tails, Knuckles and Amy, maybe Metal Sonic.

[DabigRG]

17 minutes ago, I Love Sticks said:

Sometimes I don't understand fans, they clearly don't want classic and modern crossovers after What happened with Forces, yet they want Mighty and Ray in modern titles? I agree that Classic stuff should stick to the Classic branch, and it's good this way, having a unique cast makes it original and more precious, you don't see Shadow or Blaze in the classic branch for a reason, or Mighty and Ray in modern games, simply because there is only a place for them in the branch they fit in. They can't be everywhere, the only ones who deserve to be everywhere are the main characters such as Sonic, Eggman, Tails, Knuckles and Amy, maybe Metal Sonic.

I think they mainly want to see more done with Mighty and Ray as characters.

[Red Hot Jack]

2 hours ago, DabigRG said:

I think they mainly want to see more done with Mighty and Ray as characters.

But they got Mania Plus and Adventures, that's a lot more than most modern characters. IMO they are getting a better treatment even just in the classic branch.

[DabigRG]

On 9/19/2018 at 12:56 PM, I Love Sticks said:

Might be an unpopular opinion but I tried to make this pie chart, I feel like this is what usually happens in Sonic stories:

 

Looking back at this for a second, I'm questioning the logic/applicability of it.

12 minutes ago, I Love Sticks said:

But they got Mania Plus and Adventures, that's a lot more than most modern characters. IMO they are getting a better treatment even just in the classic branch.

That's only because there are more Modern(and Dreamcast) era games than Classic by this point and Sonic only has been the deal since Unleashed.

And even then, that's three games of Mighty and two games with Ray vs. a lot more for everyone else, who have the screentime, playability, exposure, and hard, demonstrative characterization to show for it.

[Red Hot Jack]

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

Looking back at this for a second, I'm questioning the logic/applicability of it.

That's only because there are more Modern(and Dreamcast) era games than Classic by this point and Sonic only has been the deal since Unleashed.

And even then, that's three games of Mighty and two games with Ray vs. a lot more for everyone else, who have the screentime, playability, exposure, and hard, demonstrative characterization to show for it.

Well, obviously the modern cast has been around for longer even though Mighty and Ray were created earlier. I still consider them main characters more than Mighty and Ray, who are just fun additions to Mania Plus. And I meant, that right now they are more used than the modern cast.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

5 hours ago, I Love Sticks said:

Sometimes I don't understand fans, they clearly don't want classic and modern crossovers after What happened with Forces, yet they want Mighty and Ray in modern titles? I agree that Classic stuff should stick to the Classic branch, and it's good this way, having a unique cast makes it original and more precious, you don't see Shadow or Blaze in the classic branch for a reason, or Mighty and Ray in modern games, simply because there is only a place for them in the branch they fit in. They can't be everywhere, the only ones who deserve to be everywhere are the main characters such as Sonic, Eggman, Tails, Knuckles and Amy, maybe Metal Sonic.

The core of those points is that they didn’t want things split among Classic and Modern branches in the first place. That’s not to say they don’t want classic titles like Mania, but that there shouldn’t be this wall between them thay keeps them separate from one another.

That and they found Classic Sonic a pointless addition in Forces that was really done for the sake of nostalgia pandering. They’d probably have less of an issue if it simply didn’t do that and instead did so in a way that wasn’t shoehorned.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

5 hours ago, I Love Sticks said:

Sometimes I don't understand fans, they clearly don't want classic and modern crossovers after What happened with Forces, yet they want Mighty and Ray in modern titles? I agree that Classic stuff should stick to the Classic branch, and it's good this way, having a unique cast makes it original and more precious, you don't see Shadow or Blaze in the classic branch for a reason, or Mighty and Ray in modern games, simply because there is only a place for them in the branch they fit in. They can't be everywhere, the only ones who deserve to be everywhere are the main characters such as Sonic, Eggman, Tails, Knuckles and Amy, maybe Metal Sonic.

The core of those points is that they didn’t want things split among Classic and Modern branches in the first place. That’s not to say they don’t want classic titles like Mania, but that there shouldn’t be this wall between them thay keeps them separate from one another.

That and they found Classic Sonic a pointless addition in Forces that was really done for the sake of nostalgia pandering. They’d probably have less of an issue if it simply didn’t do that and instead did so in a way that wasn’t shoehorned.

[DabigRG]

2 hours ago, I Love Sticks said:

Well, obviously the modern cast has been around for longer even though Mighty and Ray were created earlier. I still consider them main characters more than Mighty and Ray, who are just fun additions to Mania Plus. And I meant, that right now they are more used than the modern cast.

One DLC/Expansion doesn't really constitute "more used."

The main characters comment is odd, if obvious.

[Red Hot Jack]

11 hours ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

The core of those points is that they didn’t want things split among Classic and Modern branches in the first place. That’s not to say they don’t want classic titles like Mania, but that there shouldn’t be this wall between them thay keeps them separate from one another.

That and they found Classic Sonic a pointless addition in Forces that was really done for the sake of nostalgia pandering. They’d probably have less of an issue if it simply didn’t do that and instead did so in a way that wasn’t shoehorned.

Well, I prefer them split into 2 (Boom is dead, even though the cartoon was great to me I still prefer no more than 2 branches): Classic and Modern, different gameplay, one 2D and the other fully 3D, different cast for each "timeline"/branch. This is how I'd do it, without crossovers between the 2, one was enough (Generations), and I'd have Modern be fully 3D, I mean, I love 2D gameplay but we have the Classic games for that, and to be honest, they do 2D way better, 2D with Modern is pointless right now. But this was a digression, sorry, we were talking about the cast, I also prefer them separated, Mighty and Ray fit into Classic more, there is a place for them in the Classics, and Modern is already full of characters who are underused, so why should they and the Hooligans and the Hard Boiled Heavies join the Modern cast? I prefer if Classic and Modern have their own unique set of characters, to further prove that the 2 branches are different.

I mean, the modern and classic split at least makes more sense than the 2 Worlds nonsense (human and animal), for me.

[Korke]

There are many valid reasons to dislike Sally as a character.

"The Slap" is not one of them.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

14 hours ago, I Love Sticks said:

But this was a digression, sorry, we were talking about the cast, I also prefer them separated, Mighty and Ray fit into Classic more, there is a place for them in the Classics, and Modern is already full of characters who are underused, so why should they and the Hooligans and the Hard Boiled Heavies join the Modern cast?

Because some fans of the Modern cast might actually like them and want to see the likes of Mighty and Ray alongside modern characters like Shadow and Blaze?

Here’s a better question, aside from the obvious answer of Sonic Team not knowing how to handle the characters well, what’s wrong with Mighty and Ray or even the HBH joining the Modern cast? How does that make them any less unique by association when their uniqueness should come from their characterization regardless of what era or branch they’re in?

 

[Heckboy]

30 minutes ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

Because some fans of the Modern cast might actually like them and want to see the likes of Mighty and Ray alongside modern characters like Shadow and Blaze?

Here’s a better question, aside from the obvious answer of Sonic Team not knowing how to handle the characters well, what’s wrong with Mighty and Ray or even the HBH joining the Modern cast? How does that make them any less unique by association when their uniqueness should come from their characterization regardless of what era or branch they’re in?

The Hard-Boiled Heavies are a better fit for Classic because their entire look is based on Classic badniks. They fit better with that particular aesthetic and world.

And if you were to redesign them to not look like Classic EggRobos to fit with the Modern branch... why even bother? Just make new characters or revive the E-100s.

 

Oh, and while I'm here, here's my unpopular opinion: Ian Flynn is good but massively overrated by this fanbase. IDW Sonic has been mostly mediocre so far. I don't think this is because of the dreaded SEGA MANDATES as much as it is Flynn stumbles a bit when he doesn't have a giant deepest lore sandbox to play around with right off the bat. The Cosmo series that he recently did is another example of this. He's also sometimes too reliant on fanservice/references as well as on characters just giving massive exposition dumps.

[Diogenes]

15 minutes ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

Here’s a better question, aside from the obvious answer of Sonic Team not knowing how to handle the characters well, what’s wrong with Mighty and Ray or even the HBH joining the Modern cast?

The modern continuity is a mess and we don't need more characters being ruined by it (I consider this related to but still distinct from the issue of Sonic Team just being bad with characters).

Alternatively it'd be unfair if the modern continuity could poach any characters or concepts it wanted from the classic continuity but not the other way around. Not that there's much that I'd want the classic continuity to adopt from modern, but it's clearly unequal if it only goes one way.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

2 hours ago, Diogenes said:

The modern continuity is a mess and we don't need more characters being ruined by it (I consider this related to but still distinct from the issue of Sonic Team just being bad with characters).

And I consider it no different to my disclaimer treating that as an aside, because that’s common knowledge and beside the point I was making.

2 hours ago, Ivo the Coldsteel said:

The Hard-Boiled Heavies are a better fit for Classic because their entire look is based on Classic badniks. They fit better with that particular aesthetic and world.

And if you were to redesign them to not look like Classic EggRobos to fit with the Modern branch... why even bother? Just make new characters or revive the E-100s.

Generations says hi.

It had Egg Robos (two types in fact) in Sky Sanctuary and several classic robots from Colors onward like Buzz Bomber, Crabmeat, Motobug, Spiny, Grabber and so forth have been given modernized designs while retaining their classic look, without going the bland and sterile route that Forces went.

Can’t see why this is somehow unfitting when the Classic-designed badniks in Modern games weren’t an aesthetic problem before. That’s just makes this Classic/Modern divide even more ridiculous.

Wouldn’t mind some new E-100 series tho.

[dbzfan7]

Middling opinion to unpopular, I'm glad Sonic Boom seems to finally be dead and I'd happily urinate on the corpse if we got a confirmed kill.

[Red Hot Jack]

7 hours ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

Because some fans of the Modern cast might actually like them and want to see the likes of Mighty and Ray alongside modern characters like Shadow and Blaze?

Here’s a better question, aside from the obvious answer of Sonic Team not knowing how to handle the characters well, what’s wrong with Mighty and Ray or even the HBH joining the Modern cast? How does that make them any less unique by association when their uniqueness should come from their characterization regardless of what era or branch they’re in?

 

It doesn't make them less unique as characters, the exclusive cast reinforces the uniqueness of the Classic branch and the Modern branch. Okay let's put it this way, if Mighty and Ray were in modern games as well, some fans would have no point in playing the Classic games (other than the fact that they are good), because the casts are interchangeable in that case, so there is nothing special about classic or modern, nothing unique. And as I said, there is the fact that Modern has already a lot of characters, so if Mighty and Ray were everywhere, basically some modern characters would have to be replaced by them, and it's not fair when Mighty and Ray are already covered in the classic games and cartoon. Just my 2 cents.

[G.U.N. Commander Gogol]

Again the unpopular opinion of mine.
Just did my first Sonic Forces walkthrough and, well...

It's actually a good game. Flawed but not critically enough to be called "shit", "shame", "dark day in Sonic's history".

I actually had fun with it. Didn't notice any real problems with levels and overall gameplay: there were some minor inconviniences with classic Sonic and his physics (therefore I think his implimentation in modern-style game was a mistake) but aside from that I hadn't any real problem with my walkthrough and, as previously stated, enjoyed it a lot. Capital City and Egg Gate were the best! The game had very juicy and beautiful design, while graphics were decent.

Avatar and his customization was on a good side too. Before trying to actually complete the game I've been in customiztion menu for about a half an hour just making fun of various customs. Tried to make Coldsteel at first, because, well, if I fucking bought the game I just MUST to try something like this, lol - didn't worked for me very well though.

Also, music. I already can see how Infinite's theme will become nostalgic for me in a couple of years. The music in Forces was beyond just "good" - it kicked ass and still kicking. Easily one of the best in all thirty years of Sonic's existence. 

But the game is Flawed as I said, so here my biggest problems with it:

1. I liked the setting and POTENTIAL for the story and villain - real shame Infinite and overall storyline was so poorly and lazily executed. As a writer myself I can easily say that there was some astounding potential for a really epic and tense story. So much of wasted potential, it hurts. 

2. 4 hours of gameplay for 40 bucks - sonic sez it's NO GOOD. 

I give Sonic Forces 7 out of 10. If it was longer, had more content and a better story it easily could become my favorite Sonic game to date. 

[E-122-Psi]

12 hours ago, Ivo the Coldsteel said:

Oh, and while I'm here, here's my unpopular opinion: Ian Flynn is good but massively overrated by this fanbase. IDW Sonic has been mostly mediocre so far. I don't think this is because of the dreaded SEGA MANDATES as much as it is Flynn stumbles a bit when he doesn't have a giant deepest lore sandbox to play around with right off the bat. The Cosmo series that he recently did is another example of this. He's also sometimes too reliant on fanservice/references as well as on characters just giving massive exposition dumps.

Same. He's better than what the games go for, but I still feel underwhelmed by his stuff a lot of the time. Maybe it's just because I see more through animation than comic format, but I tend to not find his stuff very character driven, too many of his characters are either gags or exposition riddlers or just plain bland, and often have to break character with cliche compressed vices like being hot tempered, impulsive or standoffish just to be the impetus to the plot in any way. The villains tend to be his high point, but even then a lot of them feel a tad interchangeable, completely megolomaniacal sociopaths but with a childish sense of comedy (again better than the games but still not that versatile).

3 hours ago, G.U.N. Commander Radinov said:

Again the unpopular opinion of mine.
Just did my first Sonic Forces walkthrough and, well...

It's actually a good game. Flawed but not critically enough to be called "shit", "shame", "dark day in Sonic's history".

Same for me, the rehashed engine and setup makes it a bit bland, and the story is lazily executed despite it's potential, but its hardly trash. If you haven't played Colours or Generations, it's arguably quite good.

 

If I must give one unpopular opinion, though, I've never been that big on the Freedom Fighter/resistance squad premise both the comics and Forces use. It worked as a situational thing, but I'm not fond of all the characters just being soldiers one the same regimented to stop Eggman. Sure it makes Eggman feel like more of a threat, but often it robs the cast of all their unique roles and agendas and again, takes away the ability for stories to be character driven. While games like SA1 and Heroes aren't amazingly written I do appreciate that all the characters had different motives and reasons to be pulled into the main plot and went about it their own way. That gives a greater feel the actual individual characters matter.

[G.U.N. Commander Gogol]

30 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

If you haven't played Colours or Generations, it's arguably quite good.

I actually played Generations as well as majority of Sonic games through all his eras, all his "ups" and "downs", so I'm not some lowly bystander who don't care at all about Sonic and can eat any crap just because don't know better. And  I must to say that I had fun with Forces almost as much as with Generations - quite a bit less but mostly just because Forces is short af (u know, story in Generations is just as simple as in Forces, so there is a little of difference). If Forces had bigger budget and wider development team then the game would be miles better, I can guarantee. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

10 hours ago, I Love Sticks said:

It doesn't make them less unique as characters, the exclusive cast reinforces the uniqueness of the Classic branch and the Modern branch. Okay let's put it this way, if Mighty and Ray were in modern games as well, some fans would have no point in playing the Classic games (other than the fact that they are good), because the casts are interchangeable in that case, so there is nothing special about classic or modern, nothing unique. And as I said, there is the fact that Modern has already a lot of characters, so if Mighty and Ray were everywhere, basically some modern characters would have to be replaced by them, and it's not fair when Mighty and Ray are already covered in the classic games and cartoon. Just my 2 cents.

Does the Modern Branch sharing Sonic, Tails, Eggman, Knuckles, and in some certain cases, Amy with the Classic Branch make Classic less unique and make fans see no point in playing Classic games? Why is it not the gameplay that makes people want to play a Classic or Modern game?

Furthermore, why in the world does Mighty and Ray being present mean that some other characters have to be replace? Not gonna lie, this last part makes no sense.

[Diogenes]

12 minutes ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

Does the Modern Branch sharing Sonic, Tails, Eggman, Knuckles, and in some certain cases, Amy make the Classic Branch less unique

I mean, by definition, yes? The more things they have in common the less unique they are.

But it's less about the characters they already share, and more that the Modern dimension already has Big and Cream and Shadow and Rouge and Omega and Jet and Wave and Storm and Blaze and Silver, etc, which the Classic dimension doesn't have and probably never will, but people want the Modern dimension to poach the Classic dimension's few "new" characters right away anyway.

[Zaysho]

I can't say it bothers me if the "modern" side of the franchise picks up characters from the "classic" side, or vice versa, but this would be a lot easier if the series wasn't separated into different continuities/brands in the first place.

[Cuz]

The way I see it dividing the brand just further dilutes everything. At the moment people don't even seem confident Amy belongs to both anymore; just because she was glanced over for one game. Trepid nitpicking like that is most all I expect to come out of this. Fact is so much of the modern era is informed and developed from the classics... I just don't get what fun, and creativity there is to be had in chopping it up and sorting it into one corner or the other.

"Hard-Boiled Heavies best fit Classic because they're based Classic badniks." -- so were the E-Series, Tikal and the Knuckles tribe all stem from S3&K. You start compartmentalizing it all you limit the possibilities.

I love the classic era, but I have to ask: Where exactly does anyone want the classic brand to go after Sonic 3 & Knuckles (and Mania)? Like narratively, thematically?

[DabigRG]

16 minutes ago, Cuz said:

 

I love the classic era, but I have to ask: Where exactly does anyone want the classic brand to go after Sonic 3 & Knuckles (and Mania)?

That's a very question and actually one I feel should've been asked for a while now.