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Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

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3 hours ago, Rowl said:

Big Red Button mighty have turned out to be a good studio, if Sega didn't screw them over. The concept of Sonic Boom sounded actually pretty good.

I agree with this statement. I also think that they should had stuck with the original plan for Sonic Boom and Sonic Synergy. I want a serious Sonic adventure story, not a meta comedy about how lame Sonic is.

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i thiiink this is a popular opinion? my favorite sonic is toei sonic, i wish he got more use : ( (though i guess that was what they were going for in sonic mania! i'm really happy with that sonic) i also really like classic sonic, not the games specifically but the design! the light blue color is really nice : D

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I really don't like how classic Sonic plays in Generations, he isn't as smooth as he was in the original games and some of the remixed levels feel like less like a classic game.

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36 minutes ago, Guergy said:

I really don't like how classic Sonic plays in Generations, he isn't as smooth as he was in the original games and some of the remixed levels feel like less like a classic game.

Classic Sonic in Generations is really more like Rush without boosting or tricks. He's basically a mod of Modern Sonic, and neither the physics nor level design come close to emulating the Classics. I enjoy his gameplay, but its a weak imitation really. And even as it's own thing if you try to ignore that it's supposed to replicate the Classics, his control is way off natural. He's heavy and clunky, that's are lots of automated sections and it's just generally imprecise. I don't know quite how they took it and made everything even worse in Forces. Forces is built on Lost World, sure, but the underlying framework is still all the same.

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Possibly Unpopular Opinion I Hold: Sonic's portrayal in Sonic 2006 was good: For all the many, many problems with that game's plot--not to mention other things about that game--the sort that came afterward actually made me appreciate this version of Sonic.  I grant it was different from what Sonic was before; probably a bit more subdued in personality, but compared to how he acts in the more recent, more humorous games, I like how this version of Sonic emphasized that he's a hero.  I accept that the fun-loving, wise-cracking side of his personality was, is, and probably always will be more marketable, and I like it, too, but it gets grating when no matter what sort of bad thing is happening in the games, he seems to treat everything as just another excuse to have fun, as if he's unaware that anyone else is suffering and he's little more than a rival to Eggman--a trend so obvious that Sonic Boom mocked it cosntantly.  2006 Sonic still has his fun side, but instead of it making him an oblivious buffoon, he notices that Elise is unhappy and tries his hardest to cheer her up against all odds; not by pretending nothing's going wrong but by trying to be the one thing that goes right for her.  Then, at the end of it all, despite having a good time and them having gotten very close, when Sonic learns that the only way to save everything is to erase these events from history, he does so.  Sonic loves doing what's fun, but he won't do it at the expense of doing what's right, painful though it is.  It's a real shame that this was all linked to an awkward romance that people hated and Elise herself wasn't a good enough character to make it truly work, but I do feel that had they put in a different sort of companion, the plot would have gone over much better--though I'd hate for it to become the series norm.

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Probably unpopular, but I don't believe the series works at it's best when Sonic is portrayed as either a super hero who lives to stop Eggman or a standup comedian who demonstrates no enjoyment of his adventures.
To me Sonic is an adventurer who loves to challenge himself before he is anything else. Sure he can't stand injustice but he is supposed to be free as the wind, going wherever his feet will take him, so to me at least living to stop Eggman and having no purpose without him just clashes with Sonic's character. It typically makes a lot more sense, contrived as it can be, when Sonic just happens to run into Eggman by coincidence, or is challenged by the doctor as it affords Eggman the time to actually build up his forces and bases. It also makes Sonic letting Eggman go more of an irresponsible kindness than a selfish "make sure you entertain me next week too" situation where he purposefully endangers the world just for kicks. 

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unpopular,: I think the arguments against Sonelise is ridiculous and people calling it bestiality is also ridiculous, its like calling Rogerrabbit/jessica or Donatello/April bestiality. When its not even in the same field and its kind of terrible to make such a compassion to something as horrible as bestiality. 

Imo the Sonelise thing looks bad because Elise' design clashes really bad when standing next to Sonic. She looks like she is from Final Fantasy not a Sonic game.  

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4 minutes ago, Kellodrawsalot said:

unpopular,: I think the arguments against Sonelise is ridiculous and people calling it bestiality is also ridiculous, its like calling Rogerrabbit/jessica or Donatello/April bestiality. When its not even in the same field and its kind of terrible to make such a compassion to something as horrible as bestiality. 

Imo the Sonelise thing looks bad because Elise' design clashes really bad when standing next to Sonic. She looks like she is from Final Fantasy not a Sonic game.  

Also, ShadowxMaria and RougexTopaz.

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8 hours ago, Kellodrawsalot said:

unpopular,: I think the arguments against Sonelise is ridiculous and people calling it bestiality is also ridiculous, its like calling Rogerrabbit/jessica or Donatello/April bestiality. When its not even in the same field and its kind of terrible to make such a compassion to something as horrible as bestiality. 

Imo the Sonelise thing looks bad because Elise' design clashes really bad when standing next to Sonic. She looks like she is from Final Fantasy not a Sonic game.  

Incidentally, The Geek Critique made a video review of Sonic 2006 making a strong case that it is substantially different from Who Framed Roger Rabbit.  See, even WFRR doesn't portray their relationship as normal because that's the joke.  Even living all his life in an alternate world where humans lived and worked with cartoon characters, Eddie considered that marriage weird, and he probably still would if they were the same species but still very different art styles and personalities.  That story element doesn't work if it isn't weird, and because it's a comedy it doesn't have to delve deep into how they make it work; a couple constantly feeling awkward is a funny couple.

Sonic 2006 is not a comedy.  Its central couple has no quarrels, no turbulence caused by their personalities, nothing to make the couple's affection for each other feel real or endearing despite all that, so it's impossible to overlook the inter-species factor that makes it feel icky; however much a better-written plot could rationalize it--and putting such a plot in that game would have hogged even more time.

On that note, I have been on TheTechnodrome.com since even before Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2012, and trust me, the relationship between Donatello and April (if you can even call it that) was controversial from the start.  Not just because they're different species, either.  Besides his usual machine-doing ways, 2012 Donatello was basically Brief from Panty & Stocking With Garterbelt in how he handled his crush--with two exceptions.  1, while neither character really considers that his romantic fantasies about his first crush might be based on nothing more than shallow, potentially downright predatory lust, PSG itself recognized and lampooned those quirks, and 2, it was made for adults who understand the problem with that sort of thinking.  TMNT2012 was made for children who don't inherently understand empathy or personal space, treating constant stalker behavior as a precious part of childhood to mollycoddle, rather than correct.  They were not handling that anywhere near well-enough to sell people on the idea of interspecies romance, and tellingly they just gave up eventually.  They didn't even do it in the predictable manner of getting April and Casey together, either; they just dropped the romance angle entirely.

8 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Also, ShadowxMaria and RougexTopaz.

Are you kidding?!  There is absolutely no indication in any game that Shadow sees Maria as anything other than a sister.  In fact, I don't remember any indication Shadow has romantic feelings for anyone.  He gets along well with Rouge by now, but compared to how she and Knuckles momentarily interacted after their second fight and how Amy sees Sonic, that simply isn't part of Shadow's character.  I'm not saying it's wrong to ship him with...someone, but don't act like his motivations being tied to his only friend being murdered somehow sets an official precedent for a human-hedgehog kiss to feel normal.  It doesn't.

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3 hours ago, Scritch the Cat said:

Incidentally, The Geek Critique made a video review of Sonic 2006 making a strong case that it is substantially different from Who Framed Roger Rabbit.  See, even WFRR doesn't portray their relationship as normal because that's the joke.  Even living all his life in an alternate world where humans lived and worked with cartoon characters, Eddie considered that marriage weird, and he probably still would if they were the same species but still very different art styles and personalities.  That story element doesn't work if it isn't weird, and because it's a comedy it doesn't have to delve deep into how they make it work; a couple constantly feeling awkward is a funny couple.

Sonic 2006 is not a comedy.  Its central couple has no quarrels, no turbulence caused by their personalities, nothing to make the couple's affection for each other feel real or endearing despite all that, so it's impossible to overlook the inter-species factor that makes it feel icky; however much a better-written plot could rationalize it--and putting such a plot in that game would have hogged even more time.

On that note, I have been on TheTechnodrome.com since even before Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2012, and trust me, the relationship between Donatello and April (if you can even call it that) was controversial from the start.  Not just because they're different species, either.  Besides his usual machine-doing ways, 2012 Donatello was basically Brief from Panty & Stocking With Garterbelt in how he handled his crush--with two exceptions.  1, while neither character really considers that his romantic fantasies about his first crush might be based on nothing more than shallow, potentially downright predatory lust, PSG itself recognized and lampooned those quirks, and 2, it was made for adults who understand the problem with that sort of thinking.  TMNT2012 was made for children who don't inherently understand empathy or personal space, treating constant stalker behavior as a precious part of childhood to mollycoddle, rather than correct.  They were not handling that anywhere near well-enough to sell people on the idea of interspecies romance, and tellingly they just gave up eventually.  They didn't even do it in the predictable manner of getting April and Casey together, either; they just dropped the romance angle entirely.

Are you kidding?!  There is absolutely no indication in any game that Shadow sees Maria as anything other than a sister.  In fact, I don't remember any indication Shadow has romantic feelings for anyone.  He gets along well with Rouge by now, but compared to how she and Knuckles momentarily interacted after their second fight and how Amy sees Sonic, that simply isn't part of Shadow's character.  I'm not saying it's wrong to ship him with...someone, but don't act like his motivations being tied to his only friend being murdered somehow sets an official precedent for a human-hedgehog kiss to feel normal.  It doesn't.

I dont think such relationships can only work of its a joke, ""Shape of Water"" Ancient Magnus Bride"" and ""Sacrifical Princess from the beast kingdom"" take itself much more serious. But yes I do agree if Elise/Sonic was written better it.might have turned out different. As for the Donatello / is like Brief part eh,. different subject for another Day.

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Rouge and Topaz's interactions were freaking hilarious, a female cop duo, it's just so entertaining to watch. Maybe it was the best mobian & human match up. I hope Sonic & Tom kind of beats the ladies and becomes the best firnedly pairing, since both are supposed to be sassy and sarcastic, there is potential and I could see this interaction having chemistry.

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1 hour ago, Jack in the Snow said:

Rouge and Topaz's interactions were freaking hilarious, a female cop duo, it's just so entertaining to watch. Maybe it was the best mobian & human match up. 

You know, their friendship is to me probably the paragon of why I didn't mind the human characters overall. Like, giving each Sonic character a human acquaintance or two to interact with as long as they're gonna be on the other world makes good enough sense from a series standpoint. And indeed, at least the idea of [what I can remember of] the connections that were there in the show seemed like neat ideas, generally speaking. It's just a matter of making them feel like they're palatable enough while also doing and showcasing a good amount of other things happening over the course of the show.

Granted, one could also say the fact that Rouge is the one character primarily known for interacting with humans anyway could've played a part as well, but you know.

1 hour ago, Jack in the Snow said:

 I hope Sonic & Tom kind of beats the ladies and becomes the best firnedly pairing, since both are supposed to be sassy and sarcastic, there is potential and I could see this interaction having chemistry.

Eh, that would be cool. It's a matter of whether it'll be received remotely well, though.

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I shouldn't touch on this too much, really I know better, but asides from not seeing the SonElise romance as a two way thing, I've seen more blatant fictional scenarios that could be considered bestiality than SonElise. My primary example though will always be from the fighting game series BlazBlue. I mean just consider

This human mage

740full-konoe-a.-mercury.jpg

married this cat

th?id=OIP.TMB0hhV6paGs-1t8Dgdc-AHaLk

and this is their daughter

25025993_889618897865386_314639769277562

 

Now I'm not trying to show any support for the subject, but consider that this franchise came out after 06 and things like the SonElise romance helped destroy the Sonic franchise's reputation and they still bothered to use this as a key plot point for their franchise and the three of them are all very popular characters even before they were playable. So arguably, when handled well it can be presented well enough to it's target audience without making a mess of things like with Sonic. That said though, I'm of the opinion that their should have been nothing but platonic friendship between Sonic and Elise in the first place so me getting involved in this debate is kind of a messy thing anyways. But I guess I can't help myself some days as even on the old SEGA Forums I took the time to point this out at least once, and no matter what anyone tells me there is a lot more bestiality going on with these BlazBlue characters than anywhere with Elise trying to play Prince Charming or the Princess and the Frog. I mean if you want to make an argument in this case since in both Sonic and BlazBlue the animal characters are sentient and aware of the own actions and even consenting in the case of BlazBlue, the predatory angle on Elise's part might be the route to go. Honestly I can't believe I typed that but might as well see this through since I got started in the first place.

 

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No comment on the Blazeblue subject but I personally think the problem is that the west (espiacially from the west) are quick to overthink about the NSFW details) about such a paring. Which is just..kinda gross and wrong on many many levels,. Sonic the Hedgehog and a lot of these franchises are meant for children and/or at least young teenagers. I could understand the argument if Sonic looked like a real hedgehog , the same size,  too. But Sonic is a cartoon. When they decided to make Princess Elise a love intrest for Sonic they werent thinking of some sort of fetish-angle/poltical agenda,) they were thinking of making a cute romantic story that they never were able to do with Madonna (a scrapped human love intrest for Sonic in the classic games) was the writing and choice of design of Elise bad? Yeah no douth about that. But people need to stop labeling it and calling it something its not. Its badly written just like the rest of Sonic 06 (with the exeption of Silver)

It kinda reminds me of the whole debate there is now with the She-Ra fandom and people saying the same things about the potential romantic relationship between Catra/Adora, and its so weird to me that people look at that in a childrens cartoon and think of ''bestiality. ''

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28 minutes ago, Sonic Fan J said:

I shouldn't touch on this too much, really I know better, but asides from not seeing the SonElise romance as a two way thing, I've seen more blatant fictional scenarios that could be considered bestiality than SonElise. My primary example though will always be from the fighting game series BlazBlue. I mean just consider

This human mage

740full-konoe-a.-mercury.jpg

married this cat

th?id=OIP.TMB0hhV6paGs-1t8Dgdc-AHaLk

and this is their daughter

25025993_889618897865386_314639769277562

 

Now I'm not trying to show any support for the subject, but consider that this franchise came out after 06 and things like the SonElise romance helped destroy the Sonic franchise's reputation and they still bothered to use this as a key plot point for their franchise and the three of them are all very popular characters even before they were playable. So arguably, when handled well it can be presented well enough to it's target audience without making a mess of things like with Sonic. That said though, I'm of the opinion that their should have been nothing but platonic friendship between Sonic and Elise in the first place so me getting involved in this debate is kind of a messy thing anyways. But I guess I can't help myself some days as even on the old SEGA Forums I took the time to point this out at least once, and no matter what anyone tells me there is a lot more bestiality going on with these BlazBlue characters than anywhere with Elise trying to play Prince Charming or the Princess and the Frog. I mean if you want to make an argument in this case since in both Sonic and BlazBlue the animal characters are sentient and aware of the own actions and even consenting in the case of BlazBlue, the predatory angle on Elise's part might be the route to go. Honestly I can't believe I typed that but might as well see this through since I got started in the first place.

 

Blazblue has far more nuanced characterization than Sonic ever will, so..it justifies that relationship way better.

Sonic & Elise....have no real chemistry to speak of, and there's still the fact that the series is still for children. 

 

 

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The bestiality complaints will always be overblown because even though Sonic is an animal he is presented as an entirely autonomous and intelligent being. He is for all intents and purposes human and has a back and forth with this girl.  It's not actually glorifying bestiality because it doesn't actually resemble such a thing. As far as the narrative goes they are two teenagers who look very different but that's about the extent of it.

It's just a poorly written romantic arc with characters that look so comically different from eachother that it's fun to poke at. It's not a moral issue and never was. The bestiality thing is a bad joke that started to take form of a serious argument because Sonic fans.

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5 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Blazblue has far more nuanced characterization than Sonic ever will, so..it justifies that relationship way better.

Sonic & Elise....have no real chemistry to speak of, and there's still the fact that the series is still for children. 

 

 

Regardless of target audience and nuance one barely touches the subject matter of even being a romance all of the whole game and could just as easily be written as a friendship while the other even has a major character as a consequence of the relationship. Don't get me wrong either as I'm not condoning any form of bestiality, but when I consider what bestiality is BlazBlue actually crosses that line unlike Sonic. Even then though, As I already said  and as @Wraith also addresses, these characters regardless of not being human and are technically animals, they are sentient self aware beings who are not being exploited for the twisted desires of some twisted individuals and are technically treated as human for all extents and purposes in universe. Even then though, if people are going to throw the word bestiality around they really need to know what it actually means and what an outcome of that looks like no matter how impossible. At no point in Sonic is that line crossed and implying that it is is extremely dishonest.

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On 1/13/2019 at 2:50 AM, Kellodrawsalot said:

I dont think such relationships can only work of its a joke, ""Shape of Water"" Ancient Magnus Bride"" and ""Sacrifical Princess from the beast kingdom"" take itself much more serious. But yes I do agree if Elise/Sonic was written better it.might have turned out different. As for the Donatello / is like Brief part eh,. different subject for another Day.

I can't speak for the last two of those, but while The Shape of Water isn't a comedy, it shares with Who Framed Roger Rabbit that its central couple is still weird.  It's not a film about an alternate reality where everything is super-different and interspecies romances are normal; rather it's a period-piece which exaggerates the 1950s' desire for conformity and sets the romantic leads against that.  The film posits that it can work, but it doesn't pretend it isn't a struggle against norms.

Moreover, while I have no familiarity with the others you mention, I can say that every well-received story I know of that has involved interspecies romance does this.  The Frog Prince, Beauty & the Beast, Shrek, etc, all are about convincing people that interespecies couples are valid, but none of them starts assuming their audience is already convinced, and even though they're fairy tales, plenty of their characters aren't, either.  That is because while the rational side of our brains can conclude that the key to a good romance is mutual consent, and thus this would be possible between different species if only they could communicate, and the idealistic side of our conscience says that true love is about more than sexual attraction, there's always going to be an instinct, formed in our world where multiple highly communicative species don't exist, that makes us understand the mindset of the "Gaston" figures, and accept that they're always a fitting obstacle in such stories.  The only work I've found where interespecies couples are considered normal by default is BoJack Horseman, and these couples still go through turmoil calling their compatibility into question; I've read it argued that they're made different species as a metaphor for such personality clash.

Sonic 2006 doesn't do any of this, though.  None of the expected uneasiness of the relationship, based on either the leads' nervousness or opposition from elsewhere in society, is present.  They just click together as personalities, Eggman and Silver complicate things but not because either shows any objection to such a romance, and if they weren't there the romance wouldn't have places to go because it was already apparently there.  Beyond even that this relationship carries some inherent "yuck" factor for many people, it's just plain boring.  The plot would arguably be better-received if there was never any romance to it and Elise was merely a damsel-in-distress; sure that trope is boring and cliche, and most such damsels tend to be really lame characters, but if Sonic wasn't romantically invested in such a character it would come off so much more as him doing this because it's the heroic thing to do and not because he has a self-interest in doing so.  In fact, Sonic X had an episode with Sonic befriending a little girl bound to a wheelchair, taking her on a trip to see places she always wanted to go but couldn't, no romance involved, and it's considered one of the better moments of the show.

The thing about adding romantic relationships to Sonic's plots is that even if good enough writing could make almost any of them work, they're normally so absent from this series' premise that they'll face a wall of skepticism when they're introduced, in a way that they wouldn't in stories that are about romance by default.  Sonic doesn't usually act like the settle down and raise a family type; he's a good guy but a very adventurous good guy whose good deeds take the form of charging in to save the day, falling in with allies who are already fighting the good fight or showing the depressed how to have a good time.  All of such actions fit with Sonic's personality.  Good writing might turn Sonic into a good romantic lead, but it might have to change so much in the process that he might lose some of what appeal he has.  Not to mention how the gameplay would have to chance to accommodate this.

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13 hours ago, Wraith said:

The bestiality complaints will always be overblown because even though Sonic is an animal he is presented as an entirely autonomous and intelligent being. He is for all intents and purposes human and has a back and forth with this girl. It's not actually glorifying bestiality because it doesn't actually resemble such a thing. As far as the narrative goes they are two teenagers who look very different but that's about the extent of it.

It's just a poorly written romantic arc with characters that look so comically different from eachother that it's fun to poke at. It's not a moral issue and never was. The bestiality thing is a bad joke that started to take form of a serious argument because Sonic fans.

Yeah this 10/10, 

 

@scritch the cat, I already agree that the writing of Elise's character and her suppossed romance with Sonic is poor. So again not gonna comment much on that. I do have to say the examples you used are poor, other then Bojack Horseman you used fairy tales and Fairy Tale parody, which isnt about showing the good of interspieces relationship but about Breaking curses and being awarded with a normal Human Prince/Girl for getting their love OR doing a good deed. ( One involves a real looking Frog which is also more like a REAL looking animal then a monster OR cartoon looking character which is not the same thing anymore but that's Just me )

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On 1/13/2019 at 1:39 PM, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Blazblue has far more nuanced characterization than Sonic ever will, so..it justifies that relationship way better.

Sonic & Elise....have no real chemistry to speak of, and there's still the fact that the series is still for children. 

 

 

I think we should drop the whole “this series is for children” because that really comes off as ignorant (for lack of a better word) of children series that do the exact same thing—it amazes me people use that reasoning for Sonic, and yet Beauty and the Beast is a classic. Nevermind that it isn’t just children giving their inputs on it.

Whether for humor like Roger Rabbit, or done straight like BatB, it’s been around in children’s works long before Sonic tested the waters.

Not defending SonicxElise, because that was handled very badly. But people really need to grow up and stop playing dumb on that part in particular. Really telling and ironic that it’s the adults that are acting childish whereas kids who see it aren’t going to give anywhere near a damn about it by contrast.

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6 minutes ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

I think we should drop the whole “this series is for children” because that really comes off as ignorant (for lack of a better word) of children series that do the exact same thing—it amazes me people use that reasoning for Sonic, and yet Beauty and the Beast is a classic. Nevermind that it isn’t just children giving their inputs on it.

Whether for humor like Roger Rabbit, or done straight like BatB, it’s been around in children’s works long before Sonic tested the waters.

Not defending SonicxElise, because that was handled very badly. But people really need to grow up and stop playing dumb on that part in particular. Really telling and ironic that it’s the adults that are acting childish whereas kids who see it aren’t going to give anywhere near a damn about it by contrast.

Dude, it's called a demographic. You know what those are right?

Works aimed at a particular group are extremely common since forever.. there are works aimed for children, adults, blacks, whites, etc etc

Being focused on a particular group is not the equivalent of saying that only that specific group can partake in it. There's lots of media that is liked outside the target audience, but it doesn't change the fact it's still targeted to a particular group.

And I'm kind of insulted that you've seen me post here for so many years here and assume that I didn't know that already.

That post wasn't even saying what you're accusing me of.

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Imo Silver would actually be interesting to see as a playable character again, and a major character in the story. I think he's a very underrated character simply because of his debut game. If they actually did his gameplay right, and did his personality up good, I would genuinely enjoy seeing him in another mainline Sonic game. Heck, even a spinoff game would be nice.

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