Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[Tarnish]

1 minute ago, Wraith said:

You could argue that they just didn't have the ability to express this side of them before. They've always been toy-like and have had the occasional cheeky animation 

Or you could say he finally moved on from bug/animal designs, only to have them now behave like goofballs. Decide which is weirder.

[Wraith]

1 minute ago, Tarnish said:

Or you could say he finally moved on from bug/animal designs, only to have them now behave like goofballs. Decide which is weirder.

I'm talking about the devs when I say "they". This isn't about canon. 

[Diogenes]

18 minutes ago, Tarnish said:

I had a feeling this point would be brought up. And while you have a point, I think it's taking it to another level when his robots are starting to have goofy personalities and start acting goofy instead of just being inspried by bugs and animals.

If they're goofy in design why should they not also be goofy in personality? It's not as if the animal-based badniks were ferocious killers in spite of their designs, and there was already goofy stuff like the bouncy spike guys, the weather vane chickens that just blew you back, and the kikis in SA laughing if they hit you before Egg Pawns were introduced.

18 minutes ago, Tarnish said:

And then there's of course Cubot and Orbot..

Ain't nothing wrong with those wonderful geometric boys.

13 minutes ago, Tarnish said:

Or you could say he finally moved on from bug/animal designs, only to have them now behave like goofballs. Decide which is weirder.

Considering Heroes had turtle, bird, and rhino robots he didn't exactly "move on" from animal robots.

[SBR2]

8 hours ago, Tarnish said:

For me that's just a sign they really went overboard with the comedic flavor. The whole "Eggman and his silly/goofy robots".

Y'mean the thing that's been a part of Eggman's character since Sonic 1?

[Tarnish]

2 hours ago, Diogenes said:

Ain't nothing wrong with those wonderful geometric boys.

I wouldn't shed a tear for them if Sonic smashed them to bits like he does with every other robot.

1 hour ago, SBR2 said:

Y'mean the thing that's been a part of Eggman's character since Sonic 1?

Like I said, I see a difference between robots that are inspired by bugs/animals with primitive AI and robots with AI he seemingly programmed to be goofy. You could still at least argue the animal like robots were still utilised/designed to attack (the rhino robot in Sonic 3 for charging towards Sonic, pirahna robot to bite, monkey robot to throw projectiles, the buzzer robots to fly above the character to stay out of reach, etc.). The same can't really be said when you just have Eggpawns waving a sign in the background.

[DabigRG]

3 hours ago, Tarnish said:

I had a feeling this point would be brought up. And while you have a point, I think it's taking it to another level when his robots are starting to have goofy personalities and start acting goofy instead of just being inspried by bugs and animals.

And then there's of course Cubot and Orbot..

You know, that's interesting contrast now that you mention it:

The Badniks, who tend to have cutesy and/or bizarre designs, were usuallyy just basic attack and/or obstacle sentries. And it's Orbot, the Egg Pawns, and especially Cubot, who have much more purposeful and grounded designs, who tend to be used to humorous effect.

1 hour ago, Tarnish said:

I wouldn't shed a tear for them if Sonic smashed them to bits like he does with every other robot.

Well they do tend to be buttmonkeys, particularly Cubot.

[Blue Blood]

Badniks come in a number shapes. Amongst them are the lady-bug shaped Motobugs and Eggman-shaped Egg Pawns. I really don't differentiate between them, beyond the fact that Egg Pawns tend to be thrown around with less variety from both a visual and gameplay perspective. I appreciate that Colours dressed them up differently for different environments and gave them a range of attacks to suit.

The only designs I really can't stand are of the Egg Gunner series in '06 for how boring and uncharacteristic of Eggman they were. The Forces ones also rather blow for looking useless. I understand the "mass produced" aesthetic they wanted to achieve. But it was handled much better with the Death Egg Robots; Eggman's main army should have looked at least a touch threatening or representative of his style. There's nothing to glean from "white ball with legs".

[SenEDDtor Missile]

I still await the day when we get a scenario where Egg Pawns end up being rather scary. Like say you're in a haunted house/dark room, and then suddenly an Egg Pawn's face lights up in front of you, but the way the room handles ambience makes the goofy smile look like a slasher smile. And then more and more Egg Pawn's slasher smiles show up, and then a steady "thump. thump. thump." as they move towards you slowly, but it feels incredibly tense because you're surrounded. And then they say something that sounds totally innocuous in any other circumstance like "Hey there little fella. Are you lost?" or "Come here ya little rascal." but sounds really creepy given the circumstances.

And then fade to black.

[Wraith]

I prefer the Eggpawns to be the robots for cute slap stick things. I actually want them to explore that side of them more. Give them more reactions and things Sonic can do to mess with em. 

Think the Bokoblins in Breath of the Wild, like how they can get scared off by bees or get sent tumbling down hills, screaming all the way. I'd like stuff like that.

It'd be really funny if they were tongue in cheek about how they're basically bowling pins in boost gameplay and had some randomly try to run away.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

4 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I prefer the Eggpawns to be the robots for cute slap stick things. I actually want them to explore that side of them more. Give them more reactions and things Sonic can do to mess with em. 

Think the Bokoblins in Breath of the Wild, like how they can get scared off by bees or get sent tumbling down hills, screaming all the way. I'd like stuff like that.

It'd be really funny if they were tongue in cheek about how they're basically bowling pins in boost gameplay and had some randomly try to run away.

We can do both really.

[DabigRG]

I don't really see the need apparent for Eggman to be particularly threatening or more apt scary. 

[StaticMania]

Scary isn't threatening.

He needs to be an actual threat before he can evolve to threatening.

[Tarnish]

1 hour ago, StaticMania said:

He needs to be an actual threat before he can evolve to threatening.

Well, Forces tried to kinda do that with the whole "tortured Sonic for 6 months" thing, but apparently torture just bored Sonic.

[StaticMania]

Even if that was real, if whatever torturous stuff they could've showed wasn't related to people crying or watching 2 snails race it would've been bad.

Bad as in...actually negative.

[Tarnish]

2 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Even if that was real, if whatever torturous stuff they could've showed wasn't related to people crying or watching 2 snails race it would've been bad.

Bad as in...actually negative.

I bet Eggman's idea of torture was making Sonic eat healthy instead of chilidogs and other junk food.

[Iko]

In my opinion, Sonic has actually been tortured, but the torture they mentioned consists in stuff such as the final boss of Sonic 1 (both versions).

Basically, he was put into a small room sealed with barriers and stuff, and Eggman "played" with him, controlling traps from outside the cage. It wouldn't be the first time a similar situation happend in a Sonic game... Sonic CD and Sonic & Knuckles had similar type of bosses too.

[DabigRG]

7 hours ago, StaticMania said:

Scary isn't threatening.

I know, hence distinguishing it as another thing.

7 hours ago, StaticMania said:

 

He needs to be an actual threat before he can evolve to threatening.

To be fair, he's a pretty threatening from time to time and thus is certainly capable of it.

I just don't put much emphasis on that.

5 hours ago, Tarnish said:

Well, Forces tried to kinda do that with the whole "tortured Sonic for 6 months" thing, but apparently torture just bored Sonic.

That was only in the English version.

Even then, I just assume that might've amounted to Phantom!Zavok being in character.

[Diogenes]

At this point I don't even know what people mean by Eggman "being a threat".

Did he not capture an entire planet, enslave nearly an entire race, and drain them of their weird energy to power a mind control ray?

Did he not build a machine to control a time-manipulating being, use it to capture and petrify all of Sonic's friends, and rip space and time to shreds?

Did he not invent a machine capable of sucking the life out of the planet and everything on it and use that energy to power his new robot?

Did he not rebuild an edgy furry into a reality-warping threat and use him to capture Sonic and take over nearly the entire planet?

'cause that all sounds plenty threatening enough to me. Does that all get invalidated just because the game tells some jokes, or because Sonic doesn't grit his teeth and shake his fist at him hard enough, or because his plans usually end up backfiring at some point (even though that's been happening since SA)?

[DabigRG]

2 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

At this point I don't even know what people mean by Eggman "being a threat".

Did he not capture an entire planet, enslave nearly an entire race, and drain them of their weird energy to power a mind control ray?

Did he not build a machine to control a time-manipulating being, use it to capture and petrify all of Sonic's friends, and rip space and time to shreds?

Did he not invent a machine capable of sucking the life out of the planet and everything on it and use that energy to power his new robot?

Did he not rebuild an edgy furry into a reality-warping threat and use him to capture Sonic and take over nearly the entire planet?

'cause that all sounds plenty threatening enough to me. 

I agree.

3 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Does that all get invalidated just because the game tells some jokes, or because Sonic doesn't grit his teeth and shake his fist at him hard enough, or because his plans usually end up backfiring at some point (even though that's been happening since SA)?

Apparently.

[Wraith]

Eggman "does things" but he rarely ever actually does shit to try and stop you when you're playing the game anymore. He's not cutting you off every level like the classics. He's not trying to adapt his plan to the situation all that much like in the Adventures. He sets up a mess for you to clean up and you do it while he prepares the last mech in the background for the whole game. That would be the difference between the Eggman of yesteryear to now. He, like most other characters, is passive. You can fill out all the cool evil stuff he's done on a Wikipedia article or whatever but it's not given a lot of emphasis within the game the player is experiencing compared to, say, Sonic CD framing the full impact of his actions to the player constantly and wordlessly. Eggman and Knuckles forcing Sonic to take detours. Eggman using chaos to keep the stress on the player for the first half of SA1. 

I deliberately chose lighthearted games so this couldn't be framed as a manner of tone. It's just a manner of Eggman wanting things and working to get them versus not, ya dig?  Only Lost World bothers to put him in an interesting position by forcing him to work with Sonic. Unleashed, Colors, Gens and Forces? Not so much.

It's why I don't like Orbot and Cubot. They don't contribute anything and are here so Eggman can have cutscenes by himself where he sits around not doing anything. Give him a funny sidekick that can get up and scrap with sonic as a distraction or something, at least. Give Orbot and Cubot a big, stupid mech, even. Let them rent out the Egg Dragoon for a couple of hours

[StaticMania]

You want Eggman to fight Sonic more?

That would be nice.

[Tarnish]

1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

At this point I don't even know what people mean by Eggman "being a threat".

Did he not capture an entire planet, enslave nearly an entire race, and drain them of their weird energy to power a mind control ray?

Did he not build a machine to control a time-manipulating being, use it to capture and petrify all of Sonic's friends, and rip space and time to shreds?

Did he not invent a machine capable of sucking the life out of the planet and everything on it and use that energy to power his new robot?

Did he not rebuild an edgy furry into a reality-warping threat and use him to capture Sonic and take over nearly the entire planet?

'cause that all sounds plenty threatening enough to me. Does that all get invalidated just because the game tells some jokes, or because Sonic doesn't grit his teeth and shake his fist at him hard enough, or because his plans usually end up backfiring at some point (even though that's been happening since SA)?

Technically yes, but it doesn't really feel like there's a stake to much of anything that's going on when every scene seems to serve 1 purpose, and that's to crack jokes. When the characters doesn't seem invested or moved by what's going on in the story, it's hard for me to be.

[StaticMania]

3 hours ago, Diogenes said:

At this point I don't even know what people mean by Eggman "being a threat".

Did he not capture an entire planet, enslave nearly an entire race, and drain them of their weird energy to power a mind control ray?

Did he not build a machine to control a time-manipulating being, use it to capture and petrify all of Sonic's friends, and rip space and time to shreds?

Did he not invent a machine capable of sucking the life out of the planet and everything on it and use that energy to power his new robot?

Did he not rebuild an edgy furry into a reality-warping threat and use him to capture Sonic and take over nearly the entire planet?

'cause that all sounds plenty threatening enough to me. Does that all get invalidated just because the game tells some jokes, or because Sonic doesn't grit his teeth and shake his fist at him hard enough, or because his plans usually end up backfiring at some point (even though that's been happening since SA)?

He needs to hurt Sonic again.

That's all I mean specifically.

Hurt him good. Hurt him bad.

Like that one scene in Sonic X, but not having him wuss out (mentally speaking).

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Eggman’s appeal outside of his duality as a goofy egg shaped man who’s also capable of being a terrifying mad scientist emperor wannabe, is that he’s a highly persistent nuisance who WILL make sure to stick his big nose into a situation no matter where or when it’s occuring. He may not always be the biggest or baddest villain, but you can always be certain he’ll be heavily involved in whatever’s going on, and he usually goes out of his way to adapt and do everything he can to shove himself into the spotlight.

And I think it’s why despite him being played up as the front and center threat in the Meta Era of Sonic more often than not, he feels even LESS of a threat compared to the era where he was constantly jockeying for screen time and power with the villain of the week. At least in those times, for all of the ways the story tried to downplay his threat compared to other villains, he usually tended to at least make a nuisance of himself and drive a lot of the plot forward, even if he was ultimately supplanted by the end. 

Meta Era Eggman by contrast is often handled in such a fashion that despite him being the supposed main threat, he doesn’t feel very involved in what’s going on outside of the beginning and end of the story, as if the writers forgot he existed outside of those periods until they realized they needed the big bad or something. It’s especially prevalent in Colors, Generations and Forces, where despite being the Big Bad, he’s never really seen actually doing much of anything besides yammering to a screen or to Borebot and Screwbot.

Using Colors as an example, there’s honestly a number of ways he could have actively interacted with the plot and shows that he was a persistent threat. He could hav tried to send feral Frenzy wisps after Sonic and thus maybe forcing Yacker to be less of a cardboard cutout. He could have been seen tinkering with the mind control Ray in the background to lead up to the point where he controls Tails. He could have even tried to play up his “totally reformed and not evil” act by using the feral Frenzy wisps as a false flag operation in order to make it seem like he’s not the bad guy this time. 

Basically, being called the big bad isn’t really enough for someone like Eggman; he needs to actively and proactively BE the Big Bad.

Lost World kinda had some of this in mind, but the Deadly Six being cardboard cutouts and Eggman’s plan feeling somewhat out of left field due to the story feeling like a bunch of pieces slapped together kinda screwed That over.

Edit: Unleashed admittedly also had this as an issue, but the background of the game and the levels were reasonably fleshed out enough that they could at least soften the problem, something that the comparatively stripped down games that came after can’t really do.

[E-122-Psi]

8 hours ago, StaticMania said:

He needs to hurt Sonic again.

That's all I mean specifically.

Hurt him good. Hurt him bad.

Like that one scene in Sonic X, but not having him wuss out (mentally speaking).

My issue with him in Sonic X is that, even when he overpowered Sonic like in that scene, he never really seemed to faze him. Sonic was practically a cardboard shonen, he couldn't be broken and you couldn't really get new emotions from him. Despite Eggman's personality being reasonably well handled in X (the Japanese edit at least) this severely castrated his abilities as an antagonist, Sonic stonewalled everything he done. The capsule scene from the SA2 adaption has even grimmer than in the games version for example, but unlike the latter, where Sonic is genuinely taken aback and seems resigned to his fate for a moment, only using the fake emerald as a desperate last resort, X Sonic is sitting there smugly, knowing exactly how he's going to easily escape the trap. It completely obliterates all the credibility of that scene for Eggman.

I can put even modern or Boom Eggman over X Eggman because of that, he is pit against a more fallible and emotive Sonic he is allowed to faze and overcome and just give the moderate insinuation he stands a chance of outdoing him. Some instances are almost two way childish in terms of oneuppsmanship, which is a kind of amusing rivalry.