Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[Shadowlax]

15 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

Sonic doesn't need to be a bastion of vices and serious issues,

who said that, I dont think anyone wants that

You ever heard of spiderman. He's an awkward teen that cracks jokes and can beat you up, but he ain't the strongest guy in the room and is sometimes can be akward.

That's kind of it. Someone who can be cool and snarky, but fucks up and is made aware that maybe he should chill sometimes. Why everyone think flawed means people got bodies or drugs. Flawed can mean " I"m bad at concentrating or some shit "

[E-122-Psi]

That's fair enough.

I guess another issue is balance in cast, often it also matters in relation. A flawed Sonic can still look shilled and hyper competent if everyone is even worse than him, while a reasonably stable but still fallible Sonic can look pathetic if everyone else is practically flawless and unrestrained in abilities. Trying to balance powers with personality also furthers this issue. There is arguably too many damn recurring heroes in the series, Sonic can easily be made redundant by everyone, or the other way round.

This is kinda what I liked about Sonic Boom, Sonic was flawed, but so was everyone. They tended to juggle the sane/dumbass roles pretty evenly for good chemistries so everyone felt kinda rounded (besides maybe Knuckles and Sticks who were mostly comic relief though even then they weren't as one note as say, Antoine and Dulcy, given their show had a clear competence heirarchy).

[StaticMania]

59 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

A flawed Sonic can still look shilled and hyper competent if everyone is even worse than him...

Sonic Forces...

[E-122-Psi]

1 hour ago, StaticMania said:

Sonic Forces...

Touche.

 

I think where the Sonic franchise keeps failing is in regards to the agency of flaws and how they are integral to making a character's personality. They give them an arc, a fallible self aware shade of personality, a consistent set of idiosyncrasies to make them fun, and help give them chemistries with other characters. So many characters flop in terms of either having flaws or having them developed properly.

Sticks is entertaining for example, but her craziness was actually seldom treated as a flaw,, at least one she had to overcome, it was just a gag, they actually usually played the 'right all along' twist with her to make it even wackier so she was usually enabled. Sonic and Knuckles suffer heavily from aesop amnesia with their defining flaws, sometimes within the same story to make them look even more ignorant of them, while Sally's flawed nature became less something to make her character more dynamic and vibrant and more just a non descript 'not a Mary Sue' quota they put in every number of stories. All of these show the follies of a poorly developed flaw and the direction and multiple necessary points of having one in the first place.

[Dr. Detective]

I never could get into the whole Freedom Fighter thing. I tried my best when it came to the comics but it never took off for me. Now that I don't have to, its the biggest relief imaginable. I'm so happy the Resistence disbanded in the IDW comics too. 

Also could never fully get into any of the Freedom Fighters themselves. The best I could do was learn not to hate them out of my feeble desire to love and accept everything.

[StaticMania]

Loving and accepting everything is the easiest thing ever.

[Wraith]

The Freedom Fighter setup is the easiest way to get a bunch of the characters together so I've come to not mind it as much. I know there's a demand for Sonic to be nomadic and laserfocused on like 2 or 3 characters but I'm gonna be honest and say Sonic, Eggman, Tails etc. are kinda shallow and don't do the best job holding the fort down on their own. The most popular argument is to rotate the cast in and out and that makes sense but I think you end up with something similar to the freedom fighter/resistance setup when you do that anyway even if it's not an officially dubbed response team that Sonic is on or whatever.

Basically I'm saying I don't think IDW is all that different for not having the resistance than it would have been. Sonic is still getting pointers from his friends to go help others at the end of the day.

[Kuzu]

21 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

Flawed doesn't mean bad, flawed means that they can fuck up. And when sonic was that ( Sonic Boom ) he was the most interesting the character had been in years.

This is just my opinion , you don't have to subscribe to it. But take ideal sonic, literally throw him in the actual garbage. Give me a sonic who messes up and is kind of an akward teen sometimes, that shit is interesting. We are as a society in many ways long past the age of needing are characters to be cool and strong all the time, and they can show vulnerabilities and shit. I like that sonic needs to evolve

Then that's fine. I'm just saying that there isn't anything wrong with Sonic being treated as a larger than life hero simply because he "lacks flaws"; especially when the story isn't necessarily about him but how he affects everyone around him.

[E-122-Psi]

16 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Then that's fine. I'm just saying that there isn't anything wrong with Sonic being treated as a larger than life hero simply because he "lacks flaws"; especially when the story isn't necessarily about him but how he affects everyone around him.

I feel like the trick is having mixtures of both depending on circumstance, cases the character is seen in a positive or negative light (both in ways that are in-character) depending on whether the situation brings the best or worst out of them. I mean AoSth was sort of this, being super competent and idealised in some stories but being flawed and vulnerable in others while maintaining some sort of consistent personality. It also helps when you're running a roulette with several characters' limelight, each character taking turns being challenged and having the others respond to that for balance in roles.

I think this is what hurt SatAm for example, we only had very sporadic episodes that focused on the foibles of the other Freedom Fighters (besides comic relief moments like Sally's temper or Antoine being Antoine), it was always Sonic whose fallible qualities were put in spotlight more often by the story, sure he is the protagonist, but with a cast you're trying to make a fleshed out presence, it helps to give them all personal challenges, not to mention Sonic can get just as much depth from being a supporting character at times. Sonic X was the opposite extreme, making everyone else flawed and Sonic more a greater context type character. Sure you want that cast to get developed, but you still ultimately want times Sonic gets development.

 

Concerning the Freedom Fighters concept I admit I don't find it as enticing as the games format on paper. I prefer the cast being this varied mix of roles and characters that all get put into the plot depending on their character rather than this generic army of heroes without much personal agenda. Granted the games is kinda diluting into that anyway what with a lot of the supporting cast just being in generic friends roles for a long while.

I couldn't fault Heroes too much for it's setup for example, only Sonic's team were the hero squad, the others all had their own motives and were often merged together by circumstances. There felt more personality and agency from that.

[Kuzu]

3 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

I feel like the trick is having mixtures of both depending on circumstance, cases the character is seen in a positive or negative light (both in ways that are in-character) depending on whether the situation brings the best or worst out of them. I mean AoSth was sort of this, being super competent and idealised in some stories but being flawed and vulnerable in others while maintaining some sort of consistent personality. It also helps when you're running a roulette with several characters' limelight, each character taking turns being challenged and having the others respond to that for balance in roles.

I think this is what hurt SatAm for example, we only had very sporadic episodes that focused on the foibles of the other Freedom Fighters (besides comic relief moments like Sally's temper or Antoine being Antoine), it was always Sonic whose fallible qualities were put in spotlight more often by the story, sure he is the protagonist, but with a cast you're trying to make a fleshed out presence, it helps to give them all personal challenges, not to mention Sonic can get just as much depth from being a supporting character at times. Sonic X was the opposite extreme, making everyone else flawed and Sonic more a greater context type character. Sure you want that cast to get developed, but you still ultimately want times Sonic gets development.

 

Concerning the Freedom Fighters concept I admit I don't find it as enticing as the games format on paper. I prefer the cast being this varied mix of roles and characters that all get put into the plot depending on their character rather than this generic army of heroes without much personal agenda. Granted the games is kinda diluting into that anyway what with a lot of the supporting cast just being in generic friends roles for a long while.

I couldn't fault Heroes too much for it's setup for example, only Sonic's team were the hero squad, the others all had their own motives and were often merged together by circumstances. There felt more personality and agency from that.

It depends on the story you're trying to tell. I don't think X was trying to do anything what you described. 

 

Like...not every character needs "development" or some big character arc. Sonic is rounded enough where his personality is made more interesting by how he interacts with people and how people are influenced. If that's you prefer in your media, fine. But I really don't understand what's so bad about a character just being exactly what they appear without some great "flaw" they have to overcome. Especially since that's such an overly common story nowadays, its not really that special to me anymore. 

[Sonic Fan J]

11 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

It depends on the story you're trying to tell. I don't think X was trying to do anything what you described. 

 

Like...not every character needs "development" or some big character arc. Sonic is rounded enough where his personality is made more interesting by how he interacts with people and how people are influenced. If that's you prefer in your media, fine. But I really don't understand what's so bad about a character just being exactly what they appear without some great "flaw" they have to overcome. Especially since that's such an overly common story nowadays, its not really that special to me anymore. 

Believability and relatability are probably the words which best describe what others are saying they want out of Sonic. They feel that a character that is inherently flawed is more human and thus relatable, which to me is honestly a flaw when approaching Sonic.

Sonic was created to represent SEGA in a very positive light and thus requires being a very positive character being as he is a mascot before he is a character. The need to humanize Sonic is to humanize SEGA and I can assure you that SEGA would rather have you look up to them and want to buy there products than share a beer after work so humanizing Sonic just doesn't work based off of his intentions as a mascot.

Now if you do feel the need to humanize SEGA you could always go with Hatsumi Sega from the Neptune SEGA Hard Girls crossover

She's as human as can be being a total parody of SEGA in a way that makes fun of their total absent mindedness and is a better representation of the real SEGA rather than the idealized SEGA that Sonic represents.

Now me personally, I've said again and I'll say it again, I turned 6 when Sonic came out and I instantly latched onto him being the larger than life teenager that all the grade school kids idolized. It probably helps that I had a friend who had an older teenage brother who seeming epitomized that imagery so projecting that image onto a character I was told was pretty much supposed to be that ended up being a natural thing for 6yo me that simply stuck since.

Of course it's also that imagery of Sonic why I personally am not fond of the series having a large cast of characters around or older than Sonic when I distill the series down to what I've always seen in it. To me characters like Tails and Amy, the characters drawn to Sonic and see him on that pedestal, are the best types of characters as they are kids in the same age range as Sonic's primary demographic and like the player want to go on adventures with him and see him do his best having to better themselves to see it (another reason I can tack onto why I dislike Amy's hammer).

Now that isn't to say that I completely dislike the rest of the cast, on the contrary really as I enjoy most of them and their antics, but that I feel that most of the cast dilutes the way I see the series as described above. It's also why I don't like the idea of ensemble groups like the FFs or the Resistance as it draws from Sonic being a globetrotting adventure always in search of his next adventure. To me, outside of Tails and Amy as allies (Eggman is a different story for a different conversation) most other characters should be one and done. Sonic on his adventures meets a new person, changes their life for the better just by being him and being inspirational as the larger than life figure that he is and then moves on. Meanwhile, on the side Tails and Amy continue their pursuits and makes the situation relatable for the audience, especially the target demographic.

Arguably my view of the series is not how it is but it is why I never feel a need to see Sonic humanized as to me humanizing actually detracts from him and lessens the convictions of Tails and Amy who willing pursue the unobtainable unconcerned about reaching where Sonic is but rather simply bettering themselves enough to follow him. There is some really great inspirational messages that can be derived from Sonic when he is a larger than life figure and it even ties back into the early days when you had those inspirational quotes on the game boxes (in Japan at least). It's also probably one of the reasons I don't see the Sonic x Elise romance since to me Sonic was just doing what I always perceive him to be doing.

[Kuzu]

The entire concept of Sonic is how cool and awesome he is; sure there's nothing wrong with him being "human" and relatable but I feel like that's missing the point of the character. People watch Sonic to see him do cool shit and mouth off to Eggman, because this is a dumb action series for children at the end of the day and that's what they like to see. If you have a different view of the series, power to you, but please don't forget how and why this series was so popular with us to begin with.

As for your other point; I actually like there are other characters that are equal to Sonic because it makes his world feel bigger than just his small group of friends. Sure, not everyone gets their time in the limelight, but having a smaller cast with the same characters isn't necessarily because I'm sure everyone is bored as shit of Sonic, Tails ,and Eggman all of the time due to the lack of interesting writing surrounding them. 

[Wraith]

I think you could twist there being other characters on Sonic's level as Tails having more than one influence to draw from as time goes on. I could see Tails looking up to Knuckles's strength, Shadow's focus etc. in similar ways that would make him a more rounded person overall than just being sucked into Sonic's philosophy entirely.


You could tie this type of thinking into an arc about Tails learning to see Sonic as more human and less myth too. 

[Dr. Detective]

6 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

Concerning the Freedom Fighters concept I admit I don't find it as enticing as the games format on paper. I prefer the cast being this varied mix of roles and characters that all get put into the plot depending on their character rather than this generic army of heroes without much personal agenda. Granted the games is kinda diluting into that anyway what with a lot of the supporting cast just being in generic friends roles for a long while.

I couldn't fault Heroes too much for it's setup for example, only Sonic's team were the hero squad, the others all had their own motives and were often merged together by circumstances. There felt more personality and agency from that.

Yeah, that's exactly where I'm at. I care more about the character's individual motivations and the reasons for why they do what they do being capitalized on. It's part of why Team Sonic was the least interesting team to me when I played Heroes, and even then, it's not like they were working on some sort of odd military aesthetic. I like the idea of there being an existing military but I'm not fond of Sonic being apart of it.

Grouping characters together isn't an issue for me so long as they each have a specific reason for wanting to do what they do and it's not just because some boss said "You two, go to Green Hill. We've got a mission we need you to complete." I'm not a huge supporter of rotating characters, personally. If you have a character that's right for a situation and story you want to tell than use them but I do feel situations where they could be used effectively crop up more often than the games give themselves credit for. 

I should also clarify that the disbanding of the resistance in the IDW comics doesn't mean this problem was immediately solved for me either. I recognize that there's still an existing formula happening there and it may or may not bother me depending on the circumstances behind the story. However, the overall feel of what's happening hasn't dived back into that annoying, convenient way of just huddling them all together. 

I remember Shadow the Hedgehog and how all the characters were scattered, doing their own thing in that game. Really made the world feel big to me. Even at the end when a lot of them were together on the Black Comet, the Chaotix were off doing something else but still managed to affect the plot in a meaningful way that changed the course of events for the better. I admire characters that do that. People who aren't technically apart of the heroes group but aren't playing the role of the bad-guys either. They just have their own stuff going on but despite that are also contributing to the plot by doing their own thing. It's fascinated me ever since I was a kid. It's why I liked Knuckles so much in SA2:B and the Chaotix in Season 3 of Sonic X. Rouge as well. 

I'm just really into it. Some of my favorite roles for Eggman were ones where he wasn't the main villain.

[Miles Storzillo]

3 more unpopular opinions

I fucking hate the Doomsday Zone boss in S3&K, probably my least favorite Classic Sonic boss

I really don't like the fight against Metal Sonic Kai in Mania

Egg Reverie is my favorite Classic Sonic boss overall.  Well, at least there's something gameplay wise that I like in this game.  Not enough for me to call the game anything better than below average, but a quality I like is a quality I like.

 

[Shadowlax]

5 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Then that's fine. I'm just saying that there isn't anything wrong with Sonic being treated as a larger than life hero simply because he "lacks flaws"; especially when the story isn't necessarily about him but how he affects everyone around him.

I'm not fond of him being treated larger than life, i'm very much fond of villagers in sonic boom treating him like he ain't shit really.

As for the effects the world around him thing, eh not really. Or at least that's not what I read from his stories or ever got from the character. The world kind of happens to him and he's like " welp more adventuring I guess " which is something I liked about the character. But we clearly have different reads, and i'm not gonna deny how you read the character.

13 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

The entire concept of Sonic is how cool and awesome he is; sure there's nothing wrong with him being "human" and relatable but I feel like that's missing the point of the character. People watch Sonic to see him do cool shit and mouth off to Eggman, because this is a dumb action series for children at the end of the day and that's what they like to see. If you have a different view of the series, power to you, but please don't forget how and why this series was so popular with us to begin with.

I mean , just because it started out one way doesn't mean it can't evovle and grow in another way, or in other ways. And doesn't mean that same thing can't leave him left behind.

 

13 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

As for your other point; I actually like there are other characters that are equal to Sonic because it makes his world feel bigger than just his small group of friends. Sure, not everyone gets their time in the limelight, but having a smaller cast with the same characters isn't necessarily because I'm sure everyone is bored as shit of Sonic, Tails ,and Eggman all of the time due to the lack of interesting writing surrounding them. 

I agree with this

19 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I think you could twist there being other characters on Sonic's level as Tails having more than one influence to draw from as time goes on. I could see Tails looking up to Knuckles's strength, Shadow's focus etc. in similar ways that would make him a more rounded person overall than just being sucked into Sonic's philosophy entirely.

I think this is a cool idea, I don't think it should be relegated to just tails though. Even though in my head where I have thought of a scenario where tails goes to shadow to ask him some like, morality stuff because sonic just isn't that type of guy to have that conversation with.

To my point, one of the weirdly cool thing about Shadow the Hedgehog, the game. Is that charmy strait out says he admires shadow and think's he's cool and that's like the primary reason he's following him around. That's like one of the few times outside of like , cream and blaze that there is a character is like this " non sonic character " is cool. Now if they ever do something like that again, maybe it shouldn't be charmy because folks him annoying as all get out, but other people could find shadow and knuckles cool. And they don't have to be kid like characters too. People could just see stuff in em.

I can totally see amy, while coming to head with knuckles on occasion , admiring him for doing that job. Its like a lot of responsibility dedicating yourself to protecting the M.E , and she could appreciate the mental fortitude it takes to dedicate your life to that.

Maybe cream looks up the chaotix or something, wants to become a detective. Or something

Or like espio might appreciate shadow's willingness to quickly solve problems as like a ninja or something. Or something kinda relevant to your avatar, for blaze as a character ... I will fully admit I have some uh...characterizations of her that are based on her game interpretations , but are stretched a bit. Primary her being a bit more reserved, and a cooler customer despite her powerset, but at least in my mind as a princess who presumably has to see a lot of people, can immediately get a read on who people are and what they are about. She watches what folks do more than like the normal person. And I think i mentioned this in a thread talking about characters not liking other characters being a neat idea. I can totally see blaze like seeing shadow and just telling him he can do better than like, team dark. Like he could be leading like a whole country of people, he needs to like expand his tiny idea of what a protector is besides " I beat up folks and arrive edgily " . So both an acknowledgement of character and drive and also a criticism.

And obviously this is where rouge might grow to dislike blaze more. I have always had the idea in my head that rouge is a character who kind of grew up as a theif she didn't have much maybe even parents and just stole to get by and eventually that turned into employment opportunities. So like having this princess who in her mind who never went through anything like she did , and go up to your friend and possible romantic interest and tell them you don't matter problably would make her upset. And I read blaze, as a character who will totally ignore people who annoy her if she can.

But i'm rambling and way off topic, point is uh, your idea is cool.

19 minutes ago, Wraith said:

You could tie this type of thinking into an arc about Tails learning to see Sonic as more human and less myth too. 

I have a head canon that eventually tails and amy both grow up and while they do think sonic is cool, kind of see his character flaws and tails sort of moves on and does his own thing and amy sort of understands that maybe she doesn't want this whole relationship to happen as much as she wanted to before.

[Kuzu]

1 hour ago, Shadowlax said:

I'm not fond of him being treated larger than life, i'm very much fond of villagers in sonic boom treating him like he ain't shit really.

As for the effects the world around him thing, eh not really. Or at least that's not what I read from his stories or ever got from the character. The world kind of happens to him and he's like " welp more adventuring I guess " which is something I liked about the character. But we clearly have different reads, and i'm not gonna deny how you read the character.

I mean , just because it started out one way doesn't mean it can't evovle and grow in another way, or in other ways. And doesn't mean that same thing can't leave him left behind.

There's also a thing called "missing the point". If you see things differently fine, but its important to understand why this character is loved by a lot of people more than just you. 

 

Take Dante from DMC for instance; sure, you have people that see him as more nuanced and "flawed", but the main reason people love him is because he's a pizza loving, sarcastic, crazy mofo. His creators know this and embrace it wholeheartedly, and fans of the series never get tired of this even if there are "deeper" characters. 

 

My biggest issue with Sonic is that Sega just cannot have fun with this damn series for once; things are either too serious to the point of sucking the fun out of everything or they're just told in an ironic way and completely insincere. The last time I felt the series embraced itself without any sense of irony but still had fun was Black Knight.

[Shadowlax]

1 hour ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

There's also a thing called "missing the point". If you see things differently fine, but its important to understand why this character is loved by a lot of people more than just you. 

 

Take Dante from DMC for instance; sure, you have people that see him as more nuanced and "flawed", but the main reason people love him is because he's a pizza loving, sarcastic, crazy mofo. His creators know this and embrace it wholeheartedly, and fans of the series never get tired of this even if there are "deeper" characters. 

 

So there was a long response here. But I don't want to waste your time, maybe you didn't want to come back to some paragraphs. So i'll leave it up to you , if you want I can explain why dante is not only an awful example. Speaks to how bad sonic is in man regards and how I actually wish sonic was more like dante. Or we could just drop it. Sometimes you come back and you don't even wanna deal with an argument. I get it. So i'll give you the option.

Quote

 

My biggest issue with Sonic is that Sega just cannot have fun with this damn series for once; things are either too serious to the point of sucking the fun out of everything or they're just told in an ironic way and completely insincere. The last time I felt the series embraced itself without any sense of irony but still had fun was Black Knight.

I mean i agree with this but what does this have to do with anything

[SenEDDtor Missile]

2 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

 

So there was a long response here. But I don't want to waste your time, maybe you didn't want to come back to some paragraphs. So i'll leave it up to you , if you want I can explain why dante is not only an awful example. Speaks to how bad sonic is in man regards and how I actually wish sonic was more like dante. Or we could just drop it. Sometimes you come back and you don't even wanna deal with an argument. I get it. So i'll give you the option.

I mean i agree with this but what does this have to do with anything

I’m not the biggest Devil May Cry Fan, having only seen the most recent game’s story and bits of the funny stuff for Dante from DMC4, but I think it’s because Dante, for all of his irreverence and devil May care tendencies, he ultimately does care and give a damn about what’s going on around him, and he does care about those around him, and that his tendency to be so goofy comes off more as a means to defuse the situation and allow for some grounding to the situation. Plus his friends and allies not only don’t hold him as some perfect paragon despite his tendencies no genuine power and skill, but the world as a whole doesn’t exactly cut him any slack. The recent Devil May Cry actually mirrored Forces in that it allowed Dante to be defeated, but one key difference that it makes is that while Dante  does get up afterwards, he’s not utterly unaffected by the situation and has to actively do something different to better his situation, rather than it just being business as usual.

And that last bit I think is what hurts the current Sonic and makes him come off like a bad parody of Dante; he’s not a jokester who does what he does to defuse the situation, throw his enemies off while still actually caring about what’s going on with genuine wit and humor. He’s basically just utterly detached from the situation altogether and just treats the whole thing as a joke, undermining the potential danger of the situation and just doesn’t care at all, all the while smugly acting like he’s hot shit for just being there despite not really being funny or particularly witty. And his friends at this point wildly swing from total sycophants or total jerks.

[Shadowlax]

2 minutes ago, SenEDDtor Missile said:

I’m not the biggest Devil May Cry Fan, having only seen the most recent game’s story and bits of the funny stuff for Dante from DMC4, but I think it’s because Dante, for all of his irreverence and devil May care tendencies, he ultimately does care and give a damn about what’s going on around him, and he does care about those around him, and that his tendency to be so goofy comes off more as a means to defuse the situation and allow for some grounding to the situation. Plus his friends and allies not only don’t hold him as some perfect paragon despite his tendencies no genuine power and skill, but the world as a whole doesn’t exactly cut him any slack. The recent Devil May Cry actually mirrored Forces in that it allowed Dante to be defeated, but one key difference that it makes is that while Dante  does get up afterwards, he’s not utterly unaffected by the situation and has to actively do something different to better his situation, rather than it just being business as usual.

And that last bit I think is what hurts the current Sonic and makes him come off like a bad parody of Dante; he’s not a jokester who does what he does to defuse the situation, throw his enemies off while still actually caring about what’s going on with genuine wit and humor. He’s basically just utterly detached from the situation altogether and just treats the whole thing as a joke, undermining the potential danger of the situation and just doesn’t care at all, all the while smugly acting like he’s hot shit for just being there despite not really being funny or particularly witty. And his friends at this point wildly swing from total sycophants or total jerks.

You are hitting on some points , but there are some other stuff. I can bore you with that if you want it, but i'm not gonna force it on you.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

3 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

You are hitting on some points , but there are some other stuff. I can bore you with that if you want it, but i'm not gonna force it on you.

Hey, bore away. I kinda wanna hear.

[Wraith]

12 minutes ago, SenEDDtor Missile said:

I’m not the biggest Devil May Cry Fan, having only seen the most recent game’s story and bits of the funny stuff for Dante from DMC4, but I think it’s because Dante, for all of his irreverence and devil May care tendencies, he ultimately does care and give a damn about what’s going on around him, and he does care about those around him, and that his tendency to be so goofy comes off more as a means to defuse the situation and allow for some grounding to the situation. Plus his friends and allies not only don’t hold him as some perfect paragon despite his tendencies no genuine power and skill, but the world as a whole doesn’t exactly cut him any slack. The recent Devil May Cry actually mirrored Forces in that it allowed Dante to be defeated, but one key difference that it makes is that while Dante  does get up afterwards, he’s not utterly unaffected by the situation and has to actively do something different to better his situation, rather than it just being business as usual.

And that last bit I think is what hurts the current Sonic and makes him come off like a bad parody of Dante; he’s not a jokester who does what he does to defuse the situation, throw his enemies off while still actually caring about what’s going on with genuine wit and humor. He’s basically just utterly detached from the situation altogether and just treats the whole thing as a joke, undermining the potential danger of the situation and just doesn’t care at all, all the while smugly acting like he’s hot shit for just being there despite not really being funny or particularly witty. And his friends at this point wildly swing from total sycophants or total jerks.

Sonic teaming up with the Avatar is him doing something different to better the situation. The humor is toned down in Forces too.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Just now, Wraith said:

Sonic teaming up with the Avatar is him doing something different to better the situation. The humor is toned down in Forces too so if anything they aren't that different.

I suppose, but something about the way Forces handles it is a bit...off. It's just not something I can really pin down though.

[Tarnish]

26 minutes ago, SenEDDtor Missile said:

And that last bit I think is what hurts the current Sonic and makes him come off like a bad parody of Dante; he’s not a jokester who does what he does to defuse the situation, throw his enemies off while still actually caring about what’s going on with genuine wit and humor. He’s basically just utterly detached from the situation altogether and just treats the whole thing as a joke, undermining the potential danger of the situation and just doesn’t care at all, all the while smugly acting like he’s hot shit for just being there despite not really being funny or particularly witty. And his friends at this point wildly swing from total sycophants or total jerks.

Couldn't agree more.

[Wraith]

1 minute ago, SenEDDtor Missile said:

I suppose, but something about the way Forces handles it is a bit...off. It's just not something I can really pin down though.

I'm gonna be blunt and say as a Devil May Cry fan Dante didn't actually approach the situation much differently than he did when he got beat. Something Vergil did made him realize he could do the same thing, but there was no soul searching or change of strategy going on. He realized a technicality in his demon powers with no major character shift to come with it. He still did things "his way",  and ultimately didn't actually get a lid on the situation when all was said and done. It reinforced a trait about Dante that was already apparent(his acceptance of his humanity rather than rejecting it like Virgil) but that's If DMCV"s really weird and kind of sloppy story said anything about Dante other than that, it's that he's uncooperative, stubborn, and stuck in his old ways to a fault. It's why Nero ultimately ends up sitting him down at the end.