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Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!


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13 hours ago, Heckboy said:

I like the Two Worlds thing. I get why people are annoyed by it and don't really think it's necessary, but it's fine. I like the idea of Sonic just travelling to different planets and dimensions regularly. Sonic's World, Earth, Sol Dimension, etc. Hell, you could probably work Mobius (mentioned in the Japanese Spinball manual) into the game canon this way.

I don't mind it too , it's just adopted  way too late  . I think it needs more supportive explanation to make more sense .

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14 hours ago, Heckboy said:

I like the Two Worlds thing. I get why people are annoyed by it and don't really think it's necessary, but it's fine. I like the idea of Sonic just travelling to different planets and dimensions regularly. Sonic's World, Earth, Sol Dimension, etc. Hell, you could probably work Mobius (mentioned in the Japanese Spinball manual) into the game canon this way.

The idea, in itself isn't inherently bad. Some people mention its just implemented too late, which is true but that's a symptom of the problem

 

Issue is , is that it seems like there are a bunch of decisions that sega wishes to make about this franchise, like moving away from humans, and lack of chaos emeralds ect. But they don't want to commit to it. So what results are just weird and contradictory story decisions in regards to how story and how the brand is presented. And I would personally prefer that they reformat/reboot ect the brand to be what they want it to be ( at least the 3d part ) instead of the weird thematic implementation. At least doing that you can commit to whatever you want to do, and if it doesn't work you can go back to the drawing board. Instead of having games like forces and lost world sort of balancing kinda contradictory or un sonic-ey themes, ideas, characters , ect where nothing kind of works and it would have worked if you kind of would have committed more to a single thing

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3 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

... and lack of chaos emeralds ...

I don't get why people are worried about this. Even when the emeralds aren't part of the story they've still been showing up in connection to an unlockable Super Sonic. And there's only been two main games since the last time the emeralds were a part of the story (even if Gens' story is paper thin). There's no reason to think the emeralds are going anywhere.

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6 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

I don't get why people are worried about this. Even when the emeralds aren't part of the story they've still been showing up in connection to an unlockable Super Sonic. And there's only been two main games since the last time the emeralds were a part of the story (even if Gens' story is paper thin). There's no reason to think the emeralds are going anywhere.

I'm not worried about it. I'm for it. And I think there is a reason to think, its clear that they don't reason to use these things in the story and the desire to not use them is so pervasive that it followed over into things like sonic boom. And when their serious man game, forces, doesn't have chaos emeralds and it has that one guy who does the chaos control, doing the one form of chaos control that is supposed to require a chaos emerald with out one, combined with the lack of them previously... they might be just moving away from em.

Its not inherently a good or a bad , its just a thing they are trying to do.

I think its pretty cool, I think lack of chaos emeralds should promote teamwork with in characters  , and doesn't make some characters inherently better than others because they have some connection to dumb rocks. Its their own merits and I think sonic games narrative wise and moving more into that direction,and I think that's neat.

That isn't to say they wont show up time to time, but they don't want these things to be sort of the crux of 3d games stories anymore

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16 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Just going to agree to disagree then; Like Wraith said, I feel the type of storytelling you prefer is selling Sonic himself very short as a character, and also very limiting if we're you're just to distill things down to Tails and Amy hero-worshipping him all of the time in terms of the types of stories this series has told in the past. We've had multiple character arcs in the past that didn't become a problem until later and I see no reason why that can't continue.

Yea, accommodating things to an unchanging status quo is fine, but that's what the games are currently doing and I find them dreadfully boring, so I can't really see myself thinking your ideas would be much of an improvement beyond just adding Amy and the series just going on how amazing Sonic is with no irony. If that's what your preference is, fine, I just feel like the series should be more flexible than that to accomodate more people than just yourself.

Hey, no problem, mine is the unpopular opinion anyway so I really don't expect anyone to agree with it or like it. I have that problem with my opinions and perspectives anyway.

There is one thing though before I totally let this go that I would like to address though; I agree with you that of late the games have been boring accommodating to an unchanging status quo. For me the reason is because it isn't being handled well.

Since Colors the series has been locked on the status quo with one very major flaw attached to it; the stories are being written without, or disregarding, who the characters are and what the status quo's are. It results in everything feeling broken, misdirected, and that it fails to accomplish anything coherently. And no, that's not a flaw of the status quo as the characters and their status quos are still a big part of what people like about the characters and even those who desire development for them want to see them build from that status quo. This flaw purely comes about from ignoring who the characters are and understanding their status quos resulting in writing without a road map or even a blue print of the characters resulting in lifeless cardboard cutouts who only exist to provide exposition. It has the advantage of never having to worry about detailing anything beyond the plot outline, but I definitely agree that makes for very, very boring story telling. However, I do believe that this distilled approach can and has worked.

To me at least, three games that have worked in the distilled, status quo clinging, anthology style of story telling that SEGA has been using for over a decade now are Sonic and the Secret Rings, Sonic and the Black Knight, and Sonic Unleashed. All three games show Sonic as a larger than life adventurer/hero who helps someone he meets along the way with his actions and philosophies, both good and bad, having a strong affect on the people he meets. They also don't require massive casts even if the series' cast is visually used for a joke here and there and to save time filling in the character design department. The only one of these games which brought in more was Unleashed which used Eggman, Tails, and Amy, all characters who in a status quo locked world have status quos that don't make you question their presence (Knuckles' absence and characterization are different concerns but that's a different conversation). Probably of little surprise to you with my preferences I enjoyed the stories of all three of these games (Secret Rings surprised me that it did considering I don't typically care for the Arabian Nights but I guess that speaks to my preferences for Sonic even more so) immensely and did not find them boring in the least.

So anyway, just to wrap up, I know that my opinion is unpopular and that most find my preferences to be boring. Boring as my preferences are though to everyone else, they can and have worked, and for as long as SEGA continues to push for a distilled, status quo enforced anthology structure for the franchise I will be willing accept it only so long as it's done right from my viewpoint. When SEGA decides to finally go back to a more serial approach my preferences expectations, and hopes will be radically different and at that point you'll probably see me referencing the Adventure games, Shadow's story arcs through 06, and all of the ways I believe that the characters can be used without betraying their character arcs while staying true to their status quos. And just to throw a quick example out there here's what I always use when arguing for Knuckles inclusion;

Chaotix's Japanese manual set the precedent for Knuckles to leave Angle Island in pursuit of his duty by having him head to investigate what the Master Emerald is reacting to. By at least canonizing this type of precedent into Knuckles' character bio he is free to show up at anytime regardless of if we know what he is up to or not as the precedent then exists. From there, his existing relationships and history with other characters as well as his hobbies (like treasure hunting and studying ancient civilizations) and the current situation can and should shape his actions for the rest of narrative.

And just to add onto my old fall back Knuckles example, it has been demonstrated to be a viable route that can work for including him. The example, Blaze in IDW Year One. The Sol Emeralds are having a fit so she goes to investigate and get's involved as a result. As the Guardian of the Sol Emeralds it's her responsibility to do so, but her relationships and history with the characters in Sonic's world paints how she further addresses the situation with her responsibilities as a princess of her world and the dangers of keeping the Sol Emeralds in Sonic's dimension forces her hand in how long she can stay and interact. He fact that it can work for Blaze more than says it can work for Knuckles, the precedent just needs to be added to his official and reoccurring bios with just a sentence or two and then he's as free as can be without appearing to be irresponsible and shirking his duties. He's just not sharing with us what he is up to at the time and that's fine if it is never relevant to the story at hand.

So once again, I'm good either way if SEGA goes with Sonic as a serial or Sonic as an Anthology as long as it's done right (my obviously subjective opinion) and stays truthful to the logic and characterizations that either developed over the course of the serial stories or the distilled status quo locked anthology stories. That my preferences are boring and unpopular to you and others is fine, as long as SEGA follows their own darn rules with a modicum of logic and explains why they break their rules when they break them in a satisfying and believable manner I'm good.

Sorry for the long reply when you were obviously done and good at just not liking what I do. I just felt the need to clarify a few more points in the hopes that you could better represent you dislike of my preferences to more accurate explanation of them. At least I hope I better explained them and didn't just make things worse.

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Time for opinions:

*Something that really bugs me about the people who complain that the characters are annoying is how often their wish for said characters to mature comes off more as "strip them from their quirks and anything else that gives them a unique personality". IMO that is as much bullshit as "the characters are tolerable only when they stop talking" that is parroted without thought for some easy insta-likes as I don't believe that the problem lies in either the characters having eccentricities or the ability to talk, bur rather, it's in how those things are executed.

*Characters having something the obsess about is not a bad thing as long as it is done in a funny and endearing way that does not eclipse the rest of a character's traits nor is executed at their expense. The most recent example being Big's obsession with Froggy in TSR Overdrive.

*I wouldn't have a problem if Tails and Amy were to be given more screentime/relevance than other characters since personally, I think they have more potential and flexibility (and not just be there to suck up to Sonic like a certain someone said). Many times it's been said that they are not tied down by anything, but more important is that they are the characters that can contribute the most to both Sonic's adventures as well as humanizing his character since they are the characters that are the most engaged with Sonic and through their respective POV, discover more about the protagonist character. Likewise, I'd prefer for Sonic to display his more noble qualities with them as I don't think that rewarding a one-shot that he just meet much more than the two characters who have been part of his life for the longest and who have always been there for him would feel right. (*cough*Chris Thorndyke*cough*Buddy from Forces*cough*)

In contrast, most other characters only appear because of circumstances that are very specific to the stories (along with them not having a particular interest/motivation to be that involved in Sonic's life and/or adventures). If I'm honest, save for Tails and Amy, everyone else feels like the type of character that is meant to be relevant for one or two times and afterwards they're just there for fill the roster of spinoff titles and the idea that they have to be regulars too, is pretty much ridiculous. This however does not mean they can't show up in a future... it's just thay they can't do it as often.

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Not gonna lie I completely agree with you Skull Leader. It's annoying how critics (Particuly IGN) think that Sonic and his freinds should just shut up and not be there yeah they can be annoying at times but it Baffles me. As for Knuckles I want him to be treated in the same way Sonic and Tails are being in multiple adventures though he is kind of one time TBF part of it is me wanting too see him playable in a Sonic game again  as for my opinions

1. I like Ice Cap more than Speed Highway

2.I think that the Werehog is fine

3. I hate that the Boost Games removed the Spindash

4. I didn't really see the point of SA1 Hubworld as it didn't reward you much for exploring and it was kinda extra fodder to go around trying to find Wind/Ice stones and stuff It was still a cool pastime

5. More Online incorporated personally (Kinda inspired off StephenKnux Dream sonic vid) but I think there should be Online Chao Gardens but like you can import in your Avatar from Forces and control them from there 

6. I think there should be more Sub-Games in Levels (If you know what I mean by that) If SEGA wants to somewhat make the game longer/ revert from the normal Boost Style instead of the Werehog, Classic Sonic, or Mech shooting

7. The Sonic being Idealized or Grounded argument should just die by now it has gone on for too many pages though my stance is Idealized but not to the point where he's Overglorified like Sonic X

8. Also I would like too see Lost worlds Parkour in a way more subtle form 

.Mix of Instrumental,Synthetic, and Vocal themes for Sonic games along with Sound Tests

Edited by TheRedactedArmidillo
Wanted to add 1 or 2 extra points to my argument
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1 hour ago, Skull Leader said:

 

*Something that really bugs me about the people who complain that the characters are annoying is how often their wish for said characters to mature comes off more as "strip them from their quirks and anything else that gives them a unique personality". IMO that is as much bullshit as "the characters are tolerable only when they stop talking" that is parroted without thought for some easy insta-likes as I don't believe that the problem lies in either the characters having eccentricities or the ability to talk, bur rather, it's in how those things are executed.

 

From what I recall, I'm a little surprised you didn't do this before.

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1 hour ago, Skull Leader said:

"the characters are tolerable only when they stop talking"

This is more a crack at the writing than the characters, however annoying it may be.

Or maybe even the voice acting.

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45 minutes ago, TheRedactedArmidillo said:

4. I didn't really see the point of SA1 Hubworld as it didn't reward you much for exploring and it was kinda extra fodder to go around trying to find Wind/Ice stones and stuff It was still a cool pastime

While I liked the concept of the Adventure Fields I do admit they didn't quite feel fully realised at all and felt more like a way to waste time to make up for the lack of levels. The mission mode in DX could have added more to it but the whole thing felt very simplistic and fan-modish. On that note while Next Gen was even more of a mess than SA1, I do think it played on some of it's ideas better, such as larger hub worlds with a bit more to do and more developed branching level pathways for all the character stories.

I also kind of agree on the aforementioned notes on the characters and their quirks. The problem isn't they have them but more they're sometimes all they have and are sometimes handled in a very obnoxious way (eg. Amy becoming a yandere in Sonic X). Most of their attempts to 'mature' some of the characters usually just involves making them blander and more interchangeable, downplaying their idiosyncrasies or making them superfluous to their actual agency. I don't really take interest in making Amy and Tails just another competent hero, rather than colourful characters with their own agendas and foibles.

I still can't really hate Heroes Amy in that regard, even with some of the flanderisation in play. She had her own motive for being in the story, and while her crush on Sonic was a large part of her character, she still clearly had other functions and quirks and interacted heavily with her teammates. I prefer this childish but super positive 'heart of the team' Amy over the uncharacteristically serious thinking and mature mission control Amy.

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Yeah imo I think Heroes Amy is better then Forces Amy and Sonic Team's attempt at making her some serious data collecter Amy like in Forces though her crush on Sonic went a little overboard in that game

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On 4/3/2019 at 8:39 AM, Diogenes said:

I don't get why people are worried about this. Even when the emeralds aren't part of the story they've still been showing up in connection to an unlockable Super Sonic. And there's only been two main games since the last time the emeralds were a part of the story (even if Gens' story is paper thin). There's no reason to think the emeralds are going anywhere.

Boom didn’t have them. In Forces, they were DLC (and it was a huge missed opportunity to weave them into the main game but they didn’t). Back in Sonic 1 and 2, they at least changed the ending.

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13 minutes ago, TheRedactedArmidillo said:

Yeah imo I think Heroes Amy is better then Forces Amy and Sonic Team's attempt at making her some serious data collecter Amy like in Forces though her crush on Sonic went a little overboard in that game

I didn't really care for that either, although it was because I thought she was an odd pick for that.

 

34 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

 

I still can't really hate Heroes Amy in that regard, even with some of the flanderisation in play. She had her own motive for being in the story, and while her crush on Sonic was a large part of her character, she still clearly had other functions and quirks and interacted heavily with her teammates. I prefer this childish but super positive 'heart of the team' Amy over the uncharacteristically serious thinking and mature mission control Amy.

I still haven't gone back to play that.

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2 minutes ago, Miragnarok said:

Boom didn’t have them. In Forces, they were DLC (and it was a huge missed opportunity to weave them into the main game but they didn’t). Back in Sonic 1 and 2, they at least changed the ending.

I agree with Forces but not every game needs Chaos Emeralds at the end plus who would be keeping the Chaos Emeralds anyway  if Eggman was ruling most of the world at the time and Sonic was imprisoned

On 4/3/2019 at 10:45 AM, Shadowlax said:

doesn't have chaos emeralds and it has that one guy who does the chaos control, doing the one form of chaos control that is supposed to require a chaos emerald with out one,

Shadow can Teleport without the Chaos Emeralds for some reason like he did in the Shadow the Hedgehog intro and Episode Shadow

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19 minutes ago, TheRedactedArmidillo said:

I agree with Forces but not every game needs Chaos Emeralds at the end plus who would be keeping the Chaos Emeralds anyway  if Eggman was ruling most of the world at the time and Sonic was imprisoned

Shadow can Teleport without the Chaos Emeralds for some reason like he did in the Shadow the Hedgehog intro and Episode Shadow

Oh I know that.

He did time stop with no chaos emeralds is the thing, and up until that point literally required shadow to have 1 or more chaos emeralds.

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The only Sonic character that needs to be in every game to me is Sonic. Otherwise the cast can rotate. I wouldn't really mind if they went as far as to swap Tails or Eggman out with someone else for a game or two. Amy is a favorite of mine but I see her as a person who has other shit she wants to do sometimes so I see her as on par with Knuckles in the camp of just coming along when it sounds interesting, convenient or if Sonic needs the help. 

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I wouldn't mind cast rotations I guess Ik Tails is always building stuff  but that's more for missions as for Eggman I kinda find it hard swapping him with another villain but I think it should be a compelling and intriguing character (e.g Not your monster of the week or Carbon Copy) Part of that lies in design too

6 minutes ago, Wraith said:

The only Sonic character that needs to be in every game to me is Sonic. Otherwise the cast can rotate. I wouldn't really mind if they went as far as to swap Tails or Eggman out with someone else for a game or two. Amy is a favorite of mine but I see her as a person who has other shit she wants to do sometimes so I see her as on par with Knuckles in the camp of just coming along when it sounds interesting, convenient or if Sonic needs the help. 

 

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Well yeah for sure. If you want to sub a strong personality like Eggman out it has to be a character worthy of taking that place and that's a tall order. If you just put a generic villain in his spot it would put a big damper on the game.

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44 minutes ago, Wraith said:

If you just put a generic villain in his spot it would put a big damper on the game.

It wouldn't really.

At that point, it's up to the Heroes interactions with the villain and not whether a generic villain can hold scenes on their own...which they should be able to do, but it's not as necessary.

A new villain.

Anything to expand this universe past the 2 worlds. Eggman is more limiting to the series' storytelling than Sonic is.

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10 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Anything to expand this universe past the 2 worlds

What two worlds are you referring to Little Planet and Lost Hex?

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12 minutes ago, TheRedactedArmidillo said:

What two worlds are you referring to Little Planet and Lost Hex?

Mobian(& Yokai) and Human(&Dieties).

1 hour ago, StaticMania said:

It wouldn't really.

At that point, it's up to the Heroes interactions with the villain and not whether a generic villain can hold scenes on their own...which they should be able to do, but it's not as necessary.

A new villain.

Anything to expand this universe past the 2 worlds. Eggman is more limiting to the series' storytelling than Sonic is.

I can agree with the crux of this.

 

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They tried a non-Eggman game with Black Knight (and arguably even earlier with Tails' Skypatrol). I think the key problem is that a lot of the alternative baddies in the games are rather one dimensional and sometimes barely even sapient, just big monstrosities of evil. It made sense to have Eggman pad most of the game in cases like SA1 since the other baddie couldn't offer the same compelling rivalry and storyline on their own. Even in Black Knight they pull out a twist with two baddies since neither are QUITE fully realised enough to hold the story on their own.

To add to non story lore opinions: I didn't think Sonic Labyrinth or Sonic Blast were bad, just a bit on the bland side like a lot of the other titles between S3+K and Adventure. Labyrinth's rather different puzzle gameplay and Blast's grace of being the one 8-bit platformer with playable Knuckles is at least something to make them fun for a half hour or so. I'm almost disappointed Blast was never released on the Wii, as shoddy a port as the Master System version is.

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Being two dimensional is fine as long as they're not just keel hauled.

People dislike Black Doom (they're wrong) but he could've very well been a recurring threat if he didn't need to be killed off for real. Probably could've been a memorable character and a legitimate reason for Shadow to be  an anti-hero/neutral character. Taking over the Earth is lameness, any other space related reason would be better.

People dislike Mephiles (they're wrong) but he didn't need to want to merge back with Iblis, he could've just been after the Chaos Emeralds and be a force of chaotic evil. Not wanting to destroy reality because that's lameness.

This along with not every game needing to end with some grand epic climax fighting gods and stuff.

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