Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[DabigRG]

9 minutes ago, thumbs13 said:

 I think the problem is just that Silver appeared in Forces when Blaze didn't which makes the situation seem worse than it actually is.

It was a thing before that, though. In fact, I don't remember much beyond one passing acknowledgement and one other contesting that Blaze wasn't there at all.

2 hours ago, StaticMania said:

She's just very reserved and distant, but not so much that she can't be kind of amused by the antics of others.

Clearly I can't really tell.

She's also supposed to have just a bit of a commanding vibe when facing danger, iirc. Not much though.

14 minutes ago, thumbs13 said:

 I just think the sidekick thing sounds weird when the games dont really look at Silver like that and TSR and them both kinda just be led around by Vector. 

Er, it might be just a tad more valid in that case since it's since been pointed out that Silver has much lesser tendency to associate with the Chaotix as well.

14 minutes ago, thumbs13 said:

They appear often together, but that's more of a branding thing than anything because Sonic is obsessed with teams. Teaming the two characters up who are both fish out of water seems like a no-brainer, and it's just circumstance that led it to look like they care about Silver more. 

Pretty much.

Well that and the two just make into everything that features much of the cast anyway.

[Shadowlax]

10 minutes ago, thumbs13 said:

That's fair. I think the problem is just that Silver appeared in Forces when Blaze didn't which makes the situation seem worse than it actually is. Like, unlike Rouge with Shadow, Blaze and Silver aren't really tied to each other as much as they're just characters who are friends. I just think the sidekick thing sounds weird when the games dont really look at Silver like that and TSR and them both kinda just be led around by Vector. They appear often together, but that's more of a branding thing than anything because Sonic is obsessed with teams. Teaming the two characters up who are both fish out of water seems like a no-brainer, and it's just circumstance that led it to look like they care about Silver more. 

The thing is shadow and rouge are inherently tied together, just like with silver and blaze they keep actively making the choice to do so. Even when now it goes against their branding in shadows case. The games dont have to look at silver like that, but what's being done reflects it.

I believe it would problably behoove them, in our day and of inclusiveness to have the cool independent princess lady, to be that. But sonic team continues to when they have direct control over it, lump those two together. Lead by vector or no, it's still a conscious descion made. And it's a very similar descion specifically when sonic team is helming something.

Ian flynn let bbn blaze show up first and by herself. Ian flynn let rouge have a story by herself. Ian flynn let any be a compliment leader and explained she was actually in charge (she was cool in boom too). But when sonic team is in charge of a product these things dont happen. While they have never explicitly said anything,  what they gave done has communicated the notion "if you are a girl a boy characters sidekick or girl friend unless you are a literal child" and they have done nothing to assuage this notion and if anything exacerbated it even further.

This doesn't in a vacuum its apart of a series of behaviors

[sonic 1-derful]

unpopular opinion- tails flying a plane is the same as sonic driving a car; unnecessary. what makes them both unique is the way they're able to function without vehicles.

[Diogenes]

Tails doesn't have the endurance to fly himself across oceans. The Tornado is...pretty necessary for that sort of thing.

[DabigRG]

12 minutes ago, sonic 1-derful said:

unpopular opinion- tails flying a plane is the same as sonic driving a car; unnecessary. what makes them both unique is the way they're able to function without vehicles.

Pretty sure Tails only flew a plane because it was the best way to get Sonic close to an armed Airship.

Plus, it's canonically Sonic's to begin with.

[Ivo-goji]

Lmao pretty sure Tails doesn't have a targeting laser or machine gun attachments.

[Indigo Rush]

The Tornado is also significantly faster than Tails is in the air.

The "why does Sonic need a car" or "why does Tails fly a plane" questions don't really make sense if you take the effort to consider it. 

While we're at it, Sonic drives a car in racing games to even the playing field in a competition. 

[StaticMania]

5 minutes ago, Indigo Rush said:

The "why does Sonic need a car" or "why does Tails fly a plane" questions don't really make sense if you take the effort to consider it.

At least you can assume that the only reason people still question the car thing is because "lul jokes"...it's lazy, but still something.

This Tails comment is just not considering anything that actually happens in the series.

[thumbs13]

Why does Jet need a hoverboard and blimp when he's a bird? Just fly lmao.

[MainJP]

On 9/16/2019 at 5:28 AM, sonic 1-derful said:

I don't like other characters in the games because they are often given sonic's abilities, plus their own on top of that. making him redundant in his own series. 

They HAVE to "play like Sonic" ( or, more accurately, they have to be built on the core mechanics established in these games ) in order to make cohesive use of the momentum-based gameplay and slope physics level design; basically, they have to be compatible with their environment. The design elements have to compliment each other and they need to feel like they're from the same world.

Having everyone be radically different risks having to relearn different play-styles each time that could also ultimately end up being flow-breaking.

Something else you're ignoring is the fact that Sonic indeed has his own abilities that other characters don't have access to:

The Insta-Shield, Super Peel-Out:

The Drop Dash; a movement option exclusive to Sonic.

And of course, he's the only character with Elemental-Shield abilities granting him a Renzoku Bound, horizontal fireball attack, and a Double Jump.

Sonic isn't the basic bitch you're making him out to be.

Quote

I actually didn't mind amy's gameplay in the advance series. she was able to navigate sonic's environment in her own way.

In a way that broke the flow of the game making her a chore to play as. Namely, not having her curl while jumping, and not having the ability to roll or anything similar.

Quote

as far as the tone of everything goes, I just think that when things are; serious, complicated, dark, and edgy, it takes away from the fun aspect. for me anyway. I think preference depends on when the individual was first introduced to sonic. for me it was the original game and 'adventures of'. I do see hope for the future though, if they go in the direction of the recent cartoons (first episode of 'mania adventures' and 'ok ko' crossover).

How do "Deep motives" translate to "Dark and Edgy"? And a story can still be "fun" even in the presence of serious elements. It's all about execution.

[E-122-Psi]

I think that infamy mostly comes from the fact that Sonic's abilities don't have the same flashy practicality as say, Tails and Knuckles, who let you 'break' the game to surpass several areas and access new ones. Sonic's are useful but in a 'lethal joke character' sort of way where you have to be intricate and they don't so much offer a new path for you as much as they make the main path easier. The insta shield can be pretty useful within advanced players with good reflexes for example, but to a little kid that can almost never time it properly it will probably seem like the most mundane and stupid ability ever made.

True some like Knuckles at least have minor but effective downgrades like poor jumping but a lot of the time the game has to be built specifically to make that a disadvantage (Knuckles' play of Sonic 2 is generally MUCH easier until about the last quarter, even if that difficulty spike is VERY effective).

[Wraith]

Sonic not having any "crutch" abilities is why he's always been my favorite character. The Insta shield and the drop dash are small tweaks geared toward more experienced players that I have a lot more fun with than Tails and Knuckles's abilities. 

[E-122-Psi]

Sonic's abilities can be good, the Drop Dash has decent appeal and I like that the SEGA AGES rereleases have it added in, I guess it's just that they maintain Sonic as the linear and so called 'boring' approach to playing the game. Guys who like exploration and finding secrets will always be drawn more to Knuckles and Tails.

Mighty and Ray are odd ones I admit. Their abilities are slightly more obtuse and intermediate. You can't cheese the game as easily with them unless you really master their abilities. Amy's 2D gameplay I always loved in concept since it had some drastic difference both negative and positive without being too distanced from the standard Sonic gameplay (though I admit some of her abilities felt nerfed a little too much in Advance to take full advantage of, the hop and high jump could have done with being a little more powerful).

[Splash the Otter]

I also prefer when characters play differently. Not necessarily to the extent of the Adventure games, but they should have more differences then just their air action.

[Kuzu]

Sonic is functionally the "Ryu" of the game; his toolset is "vanilla" and meant to be simpler. While some might see that as "boring", that's why you have characters like Tails and Knuckles that function as alternatives. 

You don't really need to change Sonic in order to make him "interesting"

[E-122-Psi]

15 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Sonic is functionally the "Ryu" of the game; his toolset is "vanilla" and meant to be simpler. While some might see that as "boring", that's why you have characters like Tails and Knuckles that function as alternatives. 

You don't really need to change Sonic in order to make him "interesting"

I think it depends on how they go about it. Many like the Drop Dash for example since while it doesn't completely reinvent how Sonic himself is played, it does propel his defining trait; namely his speed. In the original 2D games, Sonic quite ironically, wasn't any faster than the other characters (besides maybe with flame shield) while the Drop Dash increases that into an advantage for him without making his core gameplay different in handling. If anything it just helps put Sonic in his element more easily, spinning around like a high speed pinball, thus there Sonic has an exciting draw, even if it remains linear in function.

The only set back might be multiplayer. If the level is structured basically enough, it's a bit too easy for Sonic to spam Drop Dash and have an unfair advantage over anyone else speed wise, something even flying and gliding feel more moderated in due to being primarily vertical boosts.

[StaticMania]

29 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

The only set back might be multiplayer. If the level is structured basically enough, it's a bit too easy for Sonic to spam Drop Dash and have an unfair advantage over anyone else speed wise, something even flying and gliding feel more moderated in due to being primarily vertical boosts.

Tails high enough in the air gains enough horizontal speed as he's descending for that to not really be a problem...and he doesn't slow down upon touching the ground from flying like Knuckles does.

[E-122-Psi]

17 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Tails high enough in the air gains enough horizontal speed as he's descending for that to not really be a problem...and he doesn't slow down upon touching the ground from flying like Knuckles does.

See, this leaves me even more hopeful SEGA AGES Sonic 2 will add flying as well as Drop Dash to keep the two characters even.

[Muscles Maximum]

It was actually so ingrained into my mind that Sonic is supposed to be the fastest that playing the classics I always thought Sonic actually was faster than Knuckles and Tails. Even if they kept their speeds the same for gameplay purposes I don't understand why they didn't consider giving Knuckles and Tails slightly lower top speeds. Like, it wouldn't ruin anything at all and it'd give the player even more incentive to choose Sonic over the others.

Case in point Blaze is noticeably slower than Sonic in the Rush games but she's still tons of fun to play as and the two have their own strengths and weaknesses. Blaze isn't just some buffed up Sonic. I really think Sonic Rush handled different playable characters best out of any game in this series despite there being only two of them.

[DabigRG]

6 hours ago, Strong Guy said:

It was actually so ingrained into my mind that Sonic is supposed to be the fastest that playing the classics I always thought Sonic actually was faster than Knuckles and Tails. Even if they kept their speeds the same for gameplay purposes I don't understand why they didn't consider giving Knuckles and Tails slightly lower top speeds. Like, it wouldn't ruin anything at all and it'd give the player even more incentive to choose Sonic over the others.

I thought they were?

6 hours ago, Strong Guy said:

 

Case in point Blaze is noticeably slower than Sonic in the Rush games but she's still tons of fun to play as and the two have their own strengths and weaknesses. Blaze isn't just some buffed up Sonic. I really think Sonic Rush handled different playable characters best out of any game in this series despite there being only two of them.

Which is why it was easy.

[BaronGrackle]

7 hours ago, Strong Guy said:

It was actually so ingrained into my mind that Sonic is supposed to be the fastest that playing the classics I always thought Sonic actually was faster than Knuckles and Tails. Even if they kept their speeds the same for gameplay purposes I don't understand why they didn't consider giving Knuckles and Tails slightly lower top speeds. Like, it wouldn't ruin anything at all and it'd give the player even more incentive to choose Sonic over the others.

Case in point Blaze is noticeably slower than Sonic in the Rush games but she's still tons of fun to play as and the two have their own strengths and weaknesses. Blaze isn't just some buffed up Sonic. I really think Sonic Rush handled different playable characters best out of any game in this series despite there being only two of them.

I've been confused on Knuckles' top speed because of the Mushroom Hill Zone boss. Sonic or Tails could run just past the exhaust flames to hit Robotnik safely, but Knuckles had to attack from further back and cooperate with the flame's pattern.

Was that based on Knuckles' top speed, or was it just that the Mushroom Hill boss was automatically further ahead for Knuckles?

[E-122-Psi]

4 hours ago, BaronGrackle said:

I've been confused on Knuckles' top speed because of the Mushroom Hill Zone boss. Sonic or Tails could run just past the exhaust flames to hit Robotnik safely, but Knuckles had to attack from further back and cooperate with the flame's pattern.

Was that based on Knuckles' top speed, or was it just that the Mushroom Hill boss was automatically further ahead for Knuckles?

I know some of the bosses were upgraded to be more difficult as Knuckles. I'm not positive on that one but I'm pretty sure that all three characters utilise the same stats branch in the Mega Drive games, only altering for unique abilities and pathways.

Other opinions:

* I'm just completely and utterly numb and apathetic towards ships these days.

* In hindsight, I don't really think Sally was a 'creator's pet'. Only the SatAm's main writer admitted to her being his favourite and used her overwhelmingly (and even then mostly in supporting roles rather than much central development, she actually didn't expand much under him). The comics often felt like they were just following this dynamic and felt they had to keep her around. Penders and Bollers tried to demote her (and only after they couldn't get rid of her completely) while even under Ian, she feels like one those characters that doesn't really 'click' but he knows is a main character and has to be 'fixed' to appease the fanbase. His decision to just start from scratch with new characters rather than bring her and the other Freedom Fighters into the IDW comics sounded pretty pragmatic instead of begrudged and heartbreaking decision.

* Forces isn't amazing but it is playable enough. It's more decent but a tad bland over a bad game. Same for Sonic 4 and 3D Blast really.

* I feel SEGA should have just taken the same route as Crash and made an upgraded remake of Sonic R over TSR. That title with some fix ups and a more substantial amount of tracks and replay value would be a more remarkable racer to me (I still think it could have challenged Mario Kart 64 if it could match it in size). TSR while not necessarily bad, just screams another generic franchise kart racer.

[Kuzu]

The Sally thing is interesting to me, because I feel that's a thing people are taking an issue with in how Shadow is written.

He's too major of a character to simply drop, but I don't the writers necessarily like writing for him. 

[DabigRG]

4 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

* In hindsight, I don't really think Sally was a 'creator's pet'. Only the SatAm's main writer admitted to her being his favourite and used her overwhelmingly (and even then mostly in supporting roles rather than much central development, she actually didn't expand much under him). The comics often felt like they were just following this dynamic and felt they had to keep her around. Penders and Bollers tried to demote her (and only after they couldn't get rid of her completely) while even under Ian, she feels like one those characters that doesn't really 'click' but he knows is a main character and has to be 'fixed' to appease the fanbase. His decision to just start from scratch with new characters rather than bring her and the other Freedom Fighters into the IDW comics sounded pretty pragmatic instead of begrudged and heartbreaking decision.

I guess.

However, SEGA legitimately wanted to move the Freedom Fighters away from the spotlight, but allowed them to stay important in the reboot for consistency purposes. With IDW being a brand new deal, they are legitimately off limits.

3 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

The Sally thing is interesting to me, because I feel that's a thing people are taking an issue with in how Shadow is written.

He, like Sally and to an extent Sonic, are products of their time.

3 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

 

He's too major of a character to simply drop, but I don't the writers necessarily like writing for him. 

Oh, that. Yeah, I sorta feel that way as well.

[Tarnish]

On 9/25/2019 at 6:03 AM, Strong Guy said:

It was actually so ingrained into my mind that Sonic is supposed to be the fastest that playing the classics I always thought Sonic actually was faster than Knuckles and Tails. Even if they kept their speeds the same for gameplay purposes I don't understand why they didn't consider giving Knuckles and Tails slightly lower top speeds. Like, it wouldn't ruin anything at all and it'd give the player even more incentive to choose Sonic over the others.

Case in point Blaze is noticeably slower than Sonic in the Rush games but she's still tons of fun to play as and the two have their own strengths and weaknesses. Blaze isn't just some buffed up Sonic. I really think Sonic Rush handled different playable characters best out of any game in this series despite there being only two of them.

Well, in the Sonic 3 & Knuckles Competition vs. mode, Sonic IS faster than Tails and Knuckles, so there's that at least.

I'll always find flying, gliding and wall climbing more interesting than whatever moves Blaze had...which I don't even remember, cuz that game was just so 'meh' for me.

20 hours ago, BaronGrackle said:

I've been confused on Knuckles' top speed because of the Mushroom Hill Zone boss. Sonic or Tails could run just past the exhaust flames to hit Robotnik safely, but Knuckles had to attack from further back and cooperate with the flame's pattern.

Was that based on Knuckles' top speed, or was it just that the Mushroom Hill boss was automatically further ahead for Knuckles?

If memory serves me right, Knuckles had shorter jump height than Tails and Sonic, so I assume that made jumping over hazard feel more challenging.