Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[Kuzu]

4 minutes ago, E-122-Psi said:

I think it adds to that earlier theory someone added onto my previous one, that Shadow is a character the writers actually aren't very invested in, but feel they NEED to keep him as main tier character. Likely same for Knuckles really. You think about it, their agency is often some of the poorest in later games, Knuckles is just a sidekick most of the time now, and Shadow usually just gets orders from GUN. They keep their base characteristics but they don't tend to play a lot into what goes on.

It actually sounds like this was EXACTLY the issue for Shadow in Sonic Boom. They even bemoaned that they had problems working him around the comedy. But Shadow is popular.

Yea, without their pre established contexts they just kind of exist with no real reason to. I can understand why writers find them hard to use, especially if you want a more character driven narrative like recent media has been going for.

Characters like Tails,  Amy and even Sonic himself don't have this issue because their personalities lend them being able show up whenever and wherever regardless of context; Tails is Sonic's sidekick, so of course he sticks with him. Amy chases after Sonic, so its not weird for her to show up. And Sonic is a drifter who goes where he pleases and gets caught up with whatever is happening. Their personalities are simple yet broad enough to fit whatever context is needed.

 

Characters like Knuckles, Shadow, and Blaze are harder to work with because you need to construct the story in a way where they don't feel out of place due to their established contexts. And whenever they try to work off their personalities, it tends to feel awkward and forced (i.e. Shadow in Boom, and Knuckles in basically any game pass Heroes)

 

I never actually realized how different these characters are and how they work due to their backgrounds and personality.

[DabigRG]

13 hours ago, MainJP said:

Shadow isn't as strong as knuckles, though. Throwing a bus does not make him as strong as a guy who induces volcanic eruptions just by striking the ground hard enough.

They're probably talking about Knuckles' geokinesis. Thunder Arrow, Meteor Crush, those moves.

Thunder Arrow is basically his Black Wave for SA2 only. What is Meteor Crush?

[Mountaindewandsprite]

16 hours ago, MainJP said:

Shadow isn't as strong as knuckles, though. Throwing a bus does not make him as strong as a guy who induces volcanic eruptions just by striking the ground hard enough.

Have we actually ever seen Knuckles cause volcanic eruptions by punching the ground aside from the Sonic Boom opening?

9 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

The entire point of the character is to be "Dark Sonic", which kind of necessitates he be as fast as him. 

That would be a fair point, if ridiculous chaos powers weren't add on top of that. Shadow is (or at least was) basically a DBZ-esque character.

[DabigRG]

2 minutes ago, Mountaindewandsprite said:

Have we actually ever seen Knuckles cause volcanic eruptions by punching the ground aside from the Sonic Boom opening?

Sonic Heroes. 

 

9 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

The entire point of the character is to be "Dark Sonic", which kind of necessitates he be as fast as him. He's not as strong as Knuckles tho. Yes, he did stupid shit in his game, but his game was stupid and he's had no comparable feats since.

 

 

A Shadow related unpopular opinion; I've realized recently that looking back, Shadow's personality was actually very undefined, in the sense that outside of his big backstory, you never really get a sense of who he is without it. 

He's an extremely context-sensitive character, hence he tends to feel out of place when he's not in some big epic story related to his backstory. 

So I can kind of understand why they started exaggerating some of his personality traits so that he can be defined by an innate personality quirk and not some big backstory. 

 

Same deal with Knuckles too actually 

You mean outside of dark antihero stuff? 

While I see what you're getting at, I feel like Knuckles doesn't have it as bad. Probably because as a Classic character, there was more emphasis on fun than on straightforward story telling. 

Well that and him more flexible. 

[Kuzu]

21 minutes ago, Mountaindewandsprite said:

 

That would be a fair point, if ridiculous chaos powers weren't add on top of that. Shadow is (or at least was) basically a DBZ-esque character.

To be fair, when was the last time he used those extra powers? Outside of Chaos Control, which is his signature move, he hasn't really used anything else.

That said, you are right that those abilities put him a little over the top.

 

13 minutes ago, DabigRG said:

Sonic Heroes. 

 

You mean outside of dark antihero stuff? 

While I see what you're getting at, I feel like Knuckles doesn't have it as bad. Probably because as a Classic character, there was more emphasis on fun than on straightforward story telling. 

Well that and him more flexible. 

Knuckles is canonically an insecure hothead, so he's a bit more flexible. But now they're passing that characterization onto Shadow so I dunno.

[DabigRG]

6 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

To be fair, when was the last time he used those extra powers? Outside of Chaos Control, which is his signature move, he hasn't really used anything else.

That said, you are right that those abilities put him a little over the top.

 

Knuckles is canonically an insecure hothead, so he's a bit more flexible. But now they're passing that characterization onto Shadow so I dunno.

He uses Chaos Spear if he powers up in Generations,iirc

Oops. The cycle goes in reverse. 

[Dr. Detective]

I kind of wish the story for Colors DS was the story the Wii version had. Literally only because it's the one with all the characters in it. 

 

[DabigRG]

11 minutes ago, Dr. Franken-Mike said:

I kind of wish the story for Colors DS was the story the Wii version had. Literally only because it's the one with all the characters in it. 

 

Mm, I can sorta see that.

It would've been a big first go for all of the cast, beating Free Riders. And the laid back tone meant they could sneak in characters without overly involving them. 

[Multikaris]

38 minutes ago, Dr. Franken-Mike said:

I kind of wish the story for Colors DS was the story the Wii version had. Literally only because it's the one with all the characters in it. 

 

I also think Lost World should have gotten something like that, too.

[MainJP]

4 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Thunder Arrow is basically his Black Wave for SA2 only. What is Meteor Crush?

It's still a thing that happens. Rouge's Black Wave  and her Beauty Shock are variations on her ability to use sonic's.

Thunder Arrow falls under Geoelectricity Manipulation which falls under geokinesis.

It's a move in Sonic Battle where he calls down meteors. Another geokinetic ability.

2 hours ago, Mountaindewandsprite said:

Have we actually ever seen Knuckles cause volcanic eruptions by punching the ground aside from the Sonic Boom opening?

Volcanic Dunk from Sonic Heroes.

[DabigRG]

19 minutes ago, MainJP said:

It's still a thing that happens. Rouge's Black Wave  and her Beauty Shock are variations on her ability to use sonic's.

Thunder Arrow falls under Geoelectricity Manipulation which falls under geokinesis.

It's a move in Sonic Battle where he calls down meteors. Another geokinetic ability.

 

The shit? Guess he really is the mountain to Sonic's wind.

Still, fighting game.

[Mountaindewandsprite]

On 10/10/2019 at 4:48 PM, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

To be fair, when was the last time he used those extra powers? Outside of Chaos Control, which is his signature move, he hasn't really used anything else.

That said, you are right that those abilities put him a little over the top.

Fair enough.

[MainJP]

On 10/10/2019 at 6:48 PM, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

To be fair, when was the last time he used those extra powers? Outside of Chaos Control, which is his signature move, he hasn't really used anything else.

That said, you are right that those abilities put him a little over the top.

I'm pretty sure those "extra powers" all fall under Chaos Control. According to Sonic Retro and News Network Chaos Powers are a product of Chaos Control. Energy projection, reality distortion...

And when you're not playable much in 10 years you don't really have the opportunity to really do...anything to be fair.

On 10/10/2019 at 6:24 PM, Mountaindewandsprite said:

That would be a fair point, if ridiculous chaos powers weren't add on top of that. Shadow is (or at least was) basically a DBZ-esque character.

I wouldn't even say that, those abilities actually make him more versatile than your typical DBZ character who are mostly bricks with energy projection. Shadow is a hax character.

[E-122-Psi]

Okay....I NEVER was big on the robotisation concept in the western spin offs. I feel like the concept was a bit too grim for Sonic, and ultimately even the more serious were doomed in being able to play it properly. Characters reduced to a state of living death, left as Robotnik's drones while being aware the whole time for what is often implied to be over a decade, creepy as hell. And did even one character play that trauma palpably when they were finally freed? Not ONE. 

Archie and the likes always seemed to try add loads of creepy mutilation concepts for their villain to show how super evil and dark they were, but they still wanted to keep on the upbeat narrative of a cartoon, only getting the shock value but none of the emotion payoff. It looked like a little kid trying to tell big boy horror stories. Legionising had an interesting premise since they demonstrated the actual victims treating it with horror but the Freedom Fighters kind of inadvertently coldly shrugging it off, having a 'million is a statistic' outlook to 'winning' the war. This could have could have been an interesting twist if they were willing to undermine the Freedom Fighters but instead the plot made it so the more realistic and suffering side was wrong.

And then they brought back robotocisation so they could have the Mecha Sally arc and 'evacuate' Sally from the whole conflict by robbing her of any agency (they did this a lot really looking back at the comics, any time she was challenged by another person she got demoted real quick) with the expected five seconds of horror in the reboot continuity before it was all shrugged off.

I don't even wanna talk about the planned NICOLE backstory for SatAm's third season. It was robotocisation's pretentiousness and horror story fetish blasted up to a million, especially since it sounded like they didn't even have a flowing plot for it. The shock value was top priority.

The whole 'placed inside badniks' premise in the games never bugged me the same way, it always had a cartoony charm to it that implied it wasn't meant to be taken seriously. Animals weren't supposed to be traumatised and scarred for life from the process, like they were meant to be in some sort of stasis inside. Gamma was the nearest to taking that premise dramatically, and even there more from the actual robot side of things, whose emotions about it were naturally meant to be suppressed. Even there it felt like the ending still had a bit of tongue in cheek endearment to it.

[Dr. Mechano]

4 hours ago, E-122-Psi said:

The whole 'placed inside badniks' premise in the games never bugged me the same way, it always had a cartoony charm to it that implied it wasn't meant to be taken seriously. Animals weren't supposed to be traumatised and scarred for life from the process, like they were meant to be in some sort of stasis inside. Gamma was the nearest to taking that premise dramatically, and even there more from the actual robot side of things, whose emotions about it were naturally meant to be suppressed. Even there it felt like the ending still had a bit of tongue in cheek endearment to it.

As western spinoff material goes, AoStH and Fleetway both have takes on the "animals in Badniks" thing.

In AoStH, Robotnik holds a mouse's family hostage and forces him to pilot a robot rather than using him as a power source. And in Fleetway, the animals are treated more like organic batteries for the robots.

[Mountaindewandsprite]

13 hours ago, MainJP said:

I wouldn't even say that, those abilities actually make him more versatile than your typical DBZ character who are mostly bricks with energy projection. Shadow is a hax character.

Accurate.

[Muscles Maximum]

Unpopular opinion, I love Extreme Gear and would want them to be more prominent in the series. I'd love it if they became a kind of power up like the Rocket Shoes from Sonic Chaos. As an aside I loved the skateboard power up from Generations.

 

Either that or maybe some kind of special stage gimmick like the Sonic Advance 1 ones.

Or even just as transportation for some characters utilize to get around quicker on. There's so many different designs with the Board, Bike, Skates, Air Ride, Yacht and Wheel types that there'd be a type and unique design that can be fitting for anyone. A few examples of designs I really like.

I don't know, I just love the things and think they're super neat.

Also, look how cool Eggman looks riding his E-Rider:

[DabigRG]

51 minutes ago, Strong Guy said:

Unpopular opinion, I love Extreme Gear and would want them to be more prominent in the series. I'd love it if they became a kind of power up like the Rocket Shoes from Sonic Chaos. As an aside I loved the skateboard power up from Generations.

 

Either that or maybe some kind of special stage gimmick like the Sonic Advance 1 ones.

Or even just as transportation for some characters utilize to get around quicker on. There's so many different designs with the Board, Bike, Skates, Air Ride, Yacht and Wheel types that there'd be a type and unique design that can be fitting for anyone. A few examples of designs I really like.

I don't know, I just love the things and think they're super neat.

Also, look how cool Eggman looks riding his E-Rider:

Reminds me of the Archie reboot. 

[Shadowlax]

Wanna comment on two things

On topic: Special stages are trash

Had a long post here. Not worth it.

Shadow's stronger than you think he's specifically being dictated to be so to the detriment to his character I feel. But this ain't the thread for it  , especially a days old argument.

So I will offer you a controversial hot take unpopular opinion: I'm slowly coming upon the realization that tails outside of him being able to fly is largely kind of a bad character and was only a good character twice before Ian flynn started writing the comics and even then he's not good all the time. He tends to be good when Ian flynn diverges from who his character actually is. 

I don't think tails outside of gameplay utility has never been that interesting except when they characterize him unlike hisself or in a way that is static

 

 

[Dr. Mechano]

58 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Actually he may have cause for concern. Shadow hadn't one much because he hasn't been playable in quite sometime.

Even ignoring spinoffs, Shadow was playable in Forces. 

[Shadowlax]

Just now, Dr. Mechano said:

Even ignoring spinoffs, Shadow was playable in Forces. 

He was playable in a last minute DLC they made yes. Though he was actually supposed to have chaos powers but uh, they didn't finish it. Its still in the game though, you can access them.Which speaks to my point, if given ample enough time they will just incorporate his powers, they even did it with his unplayable appearances which makes the " when was the last time he did that " statement weird considering he was doing in completely different canon's  That said, I deleted my original post because....eh, I see some shit coming and if ya'll don't wanna see it more power to you.

[Kuzu]

3 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

He was playable in a last minute DLC they made yes. Though he was actually supposed to have chaos powers but uh, they didn't finish it. Its still in the game though, you can access them.Which speaks to my point, if given ample enough time they will just incorporate his powers, they even did it with his unplayable appearances which makes the " when was the last time he did that " statement weird considering he was doing in completely different canon's  That said, I deleted my original post because....eh, I see some shit coming and if ya'll don't wanna see it more power to you.

Um...source?

[Blue Blood]

29 minutes ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Um...source?

Ikr? Post sources when you're talking about these things, people. It's not hard.

TCRF mentions unused files referring to Chaos Control. That's about it. It implies that at some point they intended to add Chaos Control in some form, but the sound effects and graphical effects are unused. It could be nothing more than different effects for the boost. The problem with unused data like this is nothing is certain, and people jump to conclusions.

[DabigRG]

8 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

 

So I will offer you a controversial hot take unpopular opinion: I'm slowly coming upon the realization that tails outside of him being able to fly is largely kind of a bad character and was only a good character twice before Ian flynn started writing the comics and even then he's not good all the time. He tends to be good when Ian flynn diverges from who his character actually is. 

I don't think tails outside of gameplay utility has never been that interesting except when they characterize him unlike hisself or in a way that is static

 

 

Harsh. It is sorta the situation, but harsh. 

[Shadowlax]

6 hours ago, Kuzu the Boloedge said:

Um...source?

 

5 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

Ikr? Post sources when you're talking about these things, people. It's not hard.

Sorry. I thought folks knew, my bad.

5 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

TCRF mentions unused files referring to Chaos Control. That's about it. It implies that at some point they intended to add Chaos Control in some form, but the sound effects and graphical effects are unused. It could be nothing more than different effects for the boost. The problem with unused data like this is nothing is certain, and people jump to conclusions.

There's videos The effects are unfinished yeah? But what's in there just seems like the boosting powers being glitched and fucked up from Shadow's game and explosions being triggered like his chaos blast. Its unfinished and glitchy as hell. Let me try and.... there we go

 

 

1 hour ago, DabigRG said:

Harsh. It is sorta the situation, but harsh. 

I have come to the same conclusion recently about Kiari from kingdom hearts. I liked her in side stuff where she isn't written by the main writers and not written like herself. In the main material dictated by nomura she's bland as fuck and does nothing. And while tails isn't quite as bad as Kairi ( or a lot of people in KH3 because that game dissapointed alot of people ) , he's in the same boat of. The interesting bits of his character are mostly in supplementary material , or in sa1 or 2. Usually with the characters you can point to bits a pieces that you can point at in the games and go " that's why I like this guy " . Some more than others. With tails, its the opposite, when I point to sa1 or 2 , its basically the exact opposite of his entire existence. I don't like current comic shadow and ... knuckles for the past forever, but at least I can like see their characters , see where they are now and go " ok this is how we got here" and you can steer the ship back to fix it.

Tails constitutes making him a different person. To be quite honest, for the longest I felt the same way about amy too.