Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[Diogenes]

6 hours ago, Wraith said:

They already cut almost all the dialogue during gameplay over 10 years back, along with countless other concessions to the narratives to appease to classic fans.

What did that have to do with classic fans? I figured they cut it because it was almost entirely meaningless fluff, and it got annoying to hear the same things repeated a hundred times.

[Wraith]

3 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

What did that have to do with classic fans? I figured they cut it because it was almost entirely meaningless fluff, and it got annoying to hear the same things repeated a hundred times.

Classic Sonic was always held up as the positive example despite the Adventure games not having it either. It came at the same time as a lot of tweaks to make the modern games more in-line with the Genesis games. It's not a coincidence to me. 

You could consider it a quality of life change, but for me a QoL change for that would have been an off button while conciously putting in the effort to cut down on repeating voice lines at the same time. 

[knuckles20]

I’m not abandoning my preferences for people who more or less had it their way for over a decade.

I’ve heard all the issues people had with the games for a long time, but if it wasn’t enough for me to switch sides when critics continue to trash 06 why do you think I would do so now. I think the Adventure era games are good I’m not changing that for anyone.

And it’s not like I haven’t tried those games. The issues I’ve had with dealing with the games since Colors is that the story is not engaging enough for me to care, the gameplay has gotten to the point to the main campaign can be done within hours after it’s initial release, the characters are severe downgrades from prior installments, and despite giving them the 3D label it’s a huge lie because they cram the game with as many 2D sections as possible because they can’t be bothered to make an actual 3D game.

If I want the Modern games to have 3D gameplay, more balanced story telling and multiple playable characters I’ll advocate for those elements because that’s how I like my Sonic games.

[StaticMania]

13 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

...because they cram the game with as many 2D sections as possible because they can’t be bothered to make an actual 3D game.

Or because they want to make a platformer and the Boost formula doesn't exactly gel with 3D platforming.

[knuckles20]

5 hours ago, StaticMania said:

Or because they want to make a platformer and the Boost formula doesn't exactly gel with 3D platforming.

Yet they give it the 3D label when at least half the game isn't in 3D.

[ComeAsYouAre]

2 hours ago, StaticMania said:

Or because they want to make a platformer and the Boost formula doesn't exactly gel with 3D platforming.

The problem is that they advertise the games as 3D and give them prices that are closer to the prices of full 3D games than 2D games 

People don't mind this with Mario's 2.5D games because its Mario, people didn't mind this with Crash's trilogy because despite being 2.5D because it's three Games at once . But with The Sonic Boost games we get really short Games that are only half 3D yet are priced as much as fully 3D games that are longer and with a lot more content and often better gameplay. 

 

And before you mention Colors and Generations, yes they also have those issues but opinions changed from 2010 to now, and platformers were in a much worse state at the time

[StaticMania]

I didn't realize the games being "half" 2D meant they should be worth less...

I thought it was standard practice that it simply being a shorter game "should" mean it costs less...

Or something.

[Diogenes]

I've got issues with the lack of real 3D gameplay in the series myself, but a game isn't inherently worth less just because it's 2D.

[ComeAsYouAre]

10 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

I didn't realize the games being "half" 2D meant they should be worth less...

I thought it was standard practice that it simply being a shorter game "should" mean it costs less...

Or something.

 

8 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

I've got issues with the lack of real 3D gameplay in the series myself, but a game isn't inherently worth less just because it's 2D.

I don't think 2D should cost less but  the  public perception is that since 2D games are cheaper to produce then they shouldn't cost as much as full 3D games, unless if they are of exceptional quality

 

And the 2D gaming market is really oversaturated at this point, a lot of Nintendo fans even admit that they won't buy DKC/Kirby games because there are too many high quality indie 2D games that cost a half the price that those games do , and honestly Nintendo only gets away with high priced 2D games today because of their good will. 

[Kuzu]

4 hours ago, Wraith said:

This has always been a false premise that needs to be beaten into the ground instead of humored. 

You right, but whenever it keeps those things, they're generally implemented badly so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

I'm really not trying to sound defeatist or pessimistic, but I'm honestly at the end of my rope here. Like...this series has blown has blown every chance it gets, even the simplest of things it struggles to do. Its mind numbing.

 

The only real enjoyment I even get now is imagining how things could be rather than what they actually are.

 

4 hours ago, knuckles20 said:

I’m not abandoning my preferences for people who more or less had it their way for over a decade.

I’ve heard all the issues people had with the games for a long time, but if it wasn’t enough for me to switch sides when critics continue to trash 06 why do you think I would do so now. I think the Adventure era games are good I’m not changing that for anyone.

And it’s not like I haven’t tried those games. The issues I’ve had with dealing with the games since Colors is that the story is not engaging enough for me to care, the gameplay has gotten to the point to the main campaign can be done within hours after it’s initial release, the characters are severe downgrades from prior installments, and despite giving them the 3D label it’s a huge lie because they cram the game with as many 2D sections as possible because they can’t be bothered to make an actual 3D game.

If I want the Modern games to have 3D gameplay, more balanced story telling and multiple playable characters I’ll advocate for those elements because that’s how I like my Sonic games.

I'm not saying you shouldn't keep your preferences, but being open minded is also kind of important?

If you're so rigid with what you want, then you'll never be satisfied. 

 

 

[knuckles20]

I have no open mind for people who not only trash the games I like but also myself for liking those games. If I come across as rigid it’s because I’m done settling for games that aren’t satisfying to me. I did that for Colors and Generations, saw them as disappointments for reasons I’ve stated already, and didn’t bother with Lost World or Forces when those games contain the issues I saw would result in more disappointment over enjoyment. 
 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

6 hours ago, Diogenes said:

What did that have to do with classic fans?

Because Classic fans were the main group demanding it for well over a decade. Why else was Classic Sonic mute in Generations if not for that reason?

 

7 hours ago, Kuzu said:

Think what you're missing is WHY people are against these things man.

This isn't some arbitrary thing that happened over night; this is the result of TWENTY YEARS, of inept management.

Most 3D games with all of the stuff you've described have ranged from mediocre to just straight up bad. Sure, that's just a consensus that you might not agree with since those were games that brought you into the series, but I think its important to understand WHY people feel that way. It's not just some arbitrary hate bandwagon (for most people anyway) but just that those legitimately are badly put together.

I say this as someone who grew up on games past SA2; I've played those games in recent years and they do not hold up well at all.

 

Sure, getting rid of everything isn't my first solution either and I'd prefer things to improve...but that's not what's actually happening. 3D games still aren't very good with the exception of two games in the last ten years, and most glowing reception the series has had was from a love letter to the 2D games. 

Knowing all of that, can you really blame people for preferring 2D games to 3D ones?

I want the series to get its shit together too, and if it has to get rid of some things to do it then so be it. 

 

 

Moving on...

 

I feel like if the 3D games didn't have such stiff animations, the dialogue wouldn't stick out as so badly. As said, they cartoon characters who don't animate. Its jarring.

No one is missing WHY people are against these things—we’ve been hearing why since Shadow the Hedgehog.

The counterpoint to that—which has also been repeated since roughly the same time—is that much of it has been misguided ever since, and it continues to this day. We may have come a long way since people have scapegoated non-Classic characters for the fault of games doing poorly (among many other examples which everyone is familiar with by now), but acknowledging that inept management as the problem doesn’t equate to throwing everything out because that doesn’t actually fix the actual problem being addressed.

That’s the equivalent of telling someone to ignore something they don’t like when it’s being shoved in their face on the opposite end of the spectrum.

That’s also why you hear people constantly repeating to improve something, which despite the twenty years of mediocre quality titles, still isn’t anywhere near as extreme as things used to be when we’re given titles that have jumped the shark like ShTH or were outright glitchfests such as Sonic 06–as deserving of the criticism Forces is, it does not come anywhere close to those two messes we had more than a decade ago.

These twenty year problems have easy fixes, which is all the more reason the folks are still raging about them because each and every time we think they get dealt with, Sonic Team always seems to find a way to mess it up—inserting the Werehog in Unleashed despite another branch of Sega directly telling them not to do that knowing it would be a bad idea, only for them to do it anyway; marketing Sonic 4 without the extended cast, but doing a poor job at making the game even play like the classic titles; Forces offering very little improvements to the Boost Formula to the point it’s seen as stagnant; not actually improving the writing, or in some cases dumbing it down even further than the quality of writing from poorly aged games well over a decade ago, the list goes on.

These problems are glaring, but they’re not severe compared to decades ago. And what people are advocating is to tear down a whole building because of a hole in a wall that went ignored; removing organs from a patient to treat a condition they could have simply prescribed medicine for. In some severe cases, these things would be necessary, but doing so not only carries the risk of something even worse coming as a result (which I’ve noticed for years tends to be something people never take time to consider as they advocate it) it ignores that these are issues most franchises have been able to fix with utmost ease.

Were these things anywhere near the kind of ordeal that was faced with the Sonic Boom sub-franchise, then it would be easier to come to the idea to get rid of things, but after twenty years of seeing these things and offering criticism which at this point are trivial with easy-to-fix solutions, is clear as day that the problem isn’t these things inherently sucking by default, it’s the people in charge doing little to address them.

So if there is something that we need to remove, it’s the leadership of the direction. But as I also stated, doing that is also risky. Not that we should be content with that, but people need to actually think about these solutions and not jump the gun with the immediate thought of “this didn’t work, let’s trash it.” How the hell do you improve anything if you don’t take the time learn from the mistake and understand it—this is how solutions are made, and this is what is being half-assed when it comes to the problems plaguing Sonic, not just from those making the games, but also many of the very fans playing them and stating them online.

[StaticMania]

17 minutes ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

Because Classic fans were the main group demanding it for well over a decade. Why else was Classic Sonic mute in Generations if not for that reason?

I doubt fans were the reason Unleashed had no in-game dialogue during levels...and if they were really sticking to that, they wouldn't have brought it back.

[Diogenes]

34 minutes ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

Because Classic fans were the main group demanding it for well over a decade. Why else was Classic Sonic mute in Generations if not for that reason?

As I remember it most people complained about the annoying in-level dialogue. Nobody liked hearing the same lines every time they went through a loop in Heroes or every partner character shouting at Shadow in ShtH. And Classic Sonic was silent in Gens because finding the right voice for a character is a tough thing and they just decided to pass on the risk rather than pick one and disappoint people. It's not fundamentally different from the complaints some Modern fans have made about Modern Sonic's VA changing.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

1 hour ago, Diogenes said:

As I remember it most people complained about the annoying in-level dialogue. Nobody liked hearing the same lines every time they went through a loop in Heroes or every partner character shouting at Shadow in ShtH. And Classic Sonic was silent in Gens because finding the right voice for a character is a tough thing and they just decided to pass on the risk rather than pick one and disappoint people. It's not fundamentally different from the complaints some Modern fans have made about Modern Sonic's VA changing.

They certainly did complain about it, which only added more fuel to Classic fans demanding Classic Sonic to be mute come the time the Classic gameplay was making momentum toward Classic Sonic’s revival.

And I highly doubt the same company who were quick to switch every character’s VAs three times throughout the series would have much difficulty finding it in their budget for a voice actor of literally the only character in Generations who didn’t talk, especially when they somehow found two for Classic Tails and Eggman to cast as their younger selves—it’s not like they’d have a that many lines.

      

1 hour ago, StaticMania said:

I doubt fans were the reason Unleashed had no in-game dialogue during levels...and if they were really sticking to that, they wouldn't have brought it back.

Except that was around the time the games were actually addressing the problems somewhat and people thought Sonic was on the right track—right off the heels of Sonic 06 abysmal performance in spite of the Werehog stirring concern. We weren’t expecting things to reach where they are now, but funny enough we’re at a moment where things are really just repeating themselves as before.

You know what also came out of that as well? Demands for Sonic to be the only playable character because they blamed them as inherently part of the series’ problems—which is exactly what Unleashed did, and showed that wasn’t the case when Sonic Team added the Werehog.

[Kuzu]

2 hours ago, knuckles20 said:

I have no open mind for people who not only trash the games I like but also myself for liking those games. If I come across as rigid it’s because I’m done settling for games that aren’t satisfying to me. I did that for Colors and Generations, saw them as disappointments for reasons I’ve stated already, and didn’t bother with Lost World or Forces when those games contain the issues I saw would result in more disappointment over enjoyment. 
 

Nobody here has done that though?

[knuckles20]

23 minutes ago, Kuzu said:

Nobody here has done that though?

I never said people did that here. But I have experienced it from people on Sega Forums, Game grumps and the infamous IGN video who mock people who like the adventure era games.

[Diogenes]

27 minutes ago, Conquering Storm’s Servant said:

And I highly doubt the same company who were quick to switch every character’s VAs three times throughout the series would have much difficulty finding it in their budget for a voice actor of literally the only character in Generations who didn’t talk, especially when they somehow found two for Classic Tails and Eggman to cast as their younger selves—it’s not like they’d have a that many lines.

Budget's not the concern, reception is. How your main character sounds is a pretty big deal, and Classic Sonic's never had a canon voice. Instead of risking picking a voice that people wouldn't be happy with they just kept him silent.

[ComeAsYouAre]

1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

Budget's not the concern, reception is. How your main character sounds is a pretty big deal, and Classic Sonic's never had a canon voice. Instead of risking picking a voice that people wouldn't be happy with they just kept him silent.

Jaleel White is probably the VA who would have caused less butthurt , but even with him It would piss some people Off

[ComeAsYouAre]

53 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

I never said people did that here. But I have experienced it from people on Sega Forums, Game grumps and the infamous IGN video who mock people who like the adventure era games.

Isn't Sega forums dead?

[knuckles20]

21 minutes ago, ComeAsYouAre said:

Isn't Sega forums dead?

Yeah but that doesn’t changed what happened there.

[ComeAsYouAre]

10 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

Yeah but that doesn’t changed what happened there.

When did that happen?

[knuckles20]

On 10/19/2019 at 7:58 PM, ComeAsYouAre said:

When did that happen?

Around the time they announced Mania and Forces. There were trolls who just mocked anyone for preferring the adventure style games. It got so bad I left and joined here. I’m sure there are other users here who were on Sega Forums as well so they can confirm it.

[ComeAsYouAre]

2 minutes ago, knuckles20 said:

Around the time they announced Mania and Forces. There were trolls who just mocked anyone for preferring the adventure style games. It got so bad I left and joined here. I’m sure other users here were on Sega Forums as well so they can confirm it.

Do you mean SEGA 16?

[knuckles20]

12 minutes ago, ComeAsYouAre said:

Do you mean SEGA 16?

No I mean Sega Forums before it shut down and revamped itself